Micro 1071: MafiaInFreezer v2023 (Game Over)

[catboi]

VOTE: cakez

[catboi]

i am above such petty early wagons

fun hating scum

post post post post post

tbh this is a good segue for something i was going to ask - if the resident hyperposters could keep posting to a reasonable volume for the less active people who don't play as much I think this game will be more enjoyable for everyone involved. Not asking anyone to self-impose a geriatric restriction, just saying to be mindful of others this game

[catboi]

You're all cowards for not putting cakez at E-1 on page 1

[catboi]

choosing to locktown LLD for that post, this is a great idea i see no downside to~

[catboi]

i am so bored

invent a really stupid take based on people's openings that will force others to respond to it

[catboi]

me checking the signup queue to make sure gif did not put a jester into his game

[catboi]

dunn town

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

[catboi]

Dunn's got a point notty

You're breaking my heart here bud

hmmm

[catboi]

what is this cowardice catboi

I'm a scared widdle kitty cat

I'm not sure I want to kill cakez. (In the past whenever I felt this he has been scum but I can't help myself)
did the same thing
I think kilga's response to me making a joke about cakez being put to E-1, followed by the response to that, is basically predictable in that if you did the same thing with any group of players in a game you'd get the same response. But I do think Kilga is the pingiest out of anyone so far and the vote on Wavelength doesn't help. Kilga barely ever plays though so the error bars are big, I want to use at least a

liiiittle

caution. (also also inside I'm sad at the possibility of breaking up the little fgo 1 mini reunion we've got going)

[catboi]

The lacking substance felt more viscerally bad than continued ED1 silliness. To be clear, it wasn't a matter of "find the person with the fewest posts and vote for that person", it was a matter of going through the player list in my head and doing a mental exercise of "X is playing, and this is what I remember feeling from their posts" for each player. Wavelength was the only player where the result was "I don't remember anything this person did and I don't remember feeling any sort of thing about this person", and those types of slots tend to be red, in my experience playing the Mafiers.

The thing is to me, it being early Day 1, Wavelength having 2 posts with no content doesn't mean a whole lot, because not everyone gets involved this early. His 2 posts don't really give me scum pings, they're nothing posts. It could be suggested he's struggling to post as scum, but I assume he's an alternate account and probably has no trouble posting/fitting in.

So what I'm left with is you voting a low content slot, and that is the type of vote I see scum make

a lot

, because in theory it's low accountability, no one likes a player who isn't saying much.But it doesn't really serve a useful purpose because if someone is inactive putting a vote on them isn't going to exert meaningful pressure and it doesn't get into the dirty work of trying to analyze what people are actually saying. This is because it's harder to make a case on townies who are being town.

Also, you were going through a mental exercise of the player list in your head on Page 3?

[catboi]

I know I asked people to exercise restrain but this is perhaps too much restraint lol

[catboi]

Will notscience make a town post? Find out tomorrow

he's having fun, cakez. why do you hate fun?????

[catboi]

wow this fell off a cliff huh

[catboi]

I grok kilga's explanation for the vote but in a vacuum it still bothers me b/c I don't really place a different emphasis on end of day voting vs votes in the middle of the day but I...kind of...buy the idea it was for the sake of pressuring wavelength to do more over a "this is who I want to yeet" vote

[catboi]

look man you asked for geriatric lol

i tried to kill people, you went all scaredy cat (heh) and now i'm demotivated (read: sidetracked)

Yeah I mean it's my fault partly because I went afk sunday but cakez hasn't done anything so eh ok maybe we should be voting him

[catboi]

wow this fell off a cliff huh

Since it was largely brushed past the first time and the thread is slow, what do you think of what I am saying in 115 when I cased Syryana

I read that post and I wanted to see how syr responded to it, which he...didn't really. I thought 77 was a little suspect at the time because it kind of felt like he was latching on to any suspicion that gained some level of sway with the thread but it was...kind of an early game gut thing I didn't want to make a move on, if that makes sense. I'm not whelmed by what he's posting on page 6 but...I dunno. Game feels a bit like it's stuck in neutral.

[catboi]

I am reading Kilga's big post and am a little befuddled. I don't think I fully understand what they are trying to say.

I see they are explaining their thought process and that is fine. But when they say "that is where 106 is coming from" I don't really get it because I still feel like they were both saying it is a lurker vote but also not, and I don't think that part was directly addressed and it instead talks about something slightly different.

I guess I'll think about it, or maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

The point he's making is he doesn't think it's a bad vote because it's early and he doesn't have better options

[catboi]

VOTE: cakez

I don't like 133 being his only significant contribution in 24 hours - returning solely to make a "why would I do this as scum" post while not contributing anything else doesn't come across and being invested in actually solving the game.

[catboi]

i feel bad because i was at work and i thought cakez's posting was towny but i didn't bother posting it at the time and maybe i could have like helped him somehow. sorry dude

i didn't make that vote with the intention of eliminating him and i'm in general very pissed at that hammer especially given the shitshow in open 873, he should know better

[catboi]

I’m not really defending my actions, I fully anticipate to die today but I’d rather find scum before I do

This is going to sound really dumb but like, there’s this cycle where one game fuckingn sucks then there’s a few that we just dunk day one and I felt like this was the dunk day one game

lmao

okay

well how are you reading people currently?

[catboi]

I keep going back in forth in my head whether I buy that excuse or outright hate it

[catboi]

i feel bad because i was at work and i thought cakez's posting was towny but i didn't bother posting it at the time and maybe i could have like helped him somehow. sorry dude

i didn't make that vote with the intention of eliminating him and i'm in general very pissed at that hammer especially given the shitshow in open 873, he should know better

Why did you make the vote then

To put pressure on him to get more out of him. Like, had the response been bad I would have gone through with it but I certainly wasn't ready to end the day. My attention was off this game because I was occupied by a high-intensity game elsewhere though and basically didn't get to check in by the the time the day had ended.

[catboi]

now I'm fucking annoyed rereading those posts that I wasn't here for because I should have backed off

on me for committing the sin of multitabling

[catboi]

hot take:

VOTE: LLD

I think she's not been towny where other people have exhibited some signs and in the back of my mind I have been thinking the wavelength kill makes sense as a low info kill.

[catboi]

Alright, well, you're here now. Where are you at?

I'm rereading the end of Day 1 to fully form opinions

I kind of think notty's posting is

not great

still but wouldn't really be shocked for him to flip town, Dunn/ydrasse/kilga/you I've been starting to feel are surface-level okay but I haven't really bothered to contemplate you more deeply, my brain has not fully clicked to actually thinking about this game yet.

[catboi]

I think LLD has been playing loosey-goosey laid back to blend in with the generally low effort game start but I don't get the feel of the gears turning in her head anywhere, her early pushes seemed less like a true feeling than lining up whatever targets were most convenient. I think her backing off on the cakez elim was underwhelming and didn't show serious effort to prevent it or push a counterwagon elsewhere. It's a manuever I'm well versed in as scum - feebly protest as town shoves through a bad kill and keep your hands clean.

[catboi]

btw if you're reading this

@SirCakez

-I am well and truly sorry for how Day 1 went down, you deserved far better. I don't think you're a bad player and a lot of the blame rests squarely on me for not giving this game the proper attention it deserves.

[catboi]

The 269/270 is the first sequence where I see it and say, "Okay, I can see town writing this". That's obviously very thin but I think notty is more likely to take that much self-assuredness in him being town if he actually has a town role PM to back it up. It would be a nulltell if I was posting it but for him I kind of think it rings true.

[catboi]

sigh oh my god

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

[catboi]

I don't want to be the fucking bully here I'm just trying to play the game where my head has not been in it but clearly this approach is not helpful. I would prefer to give you space because clearly this right now is unhelpful and unpleasant for everyone involved so I'm going to limit my engagement here for now. Hopefully in the future we can both be in a spot to have actual dialogue.

[catboi]

I don't want to be the fucking bully here I'm just trying to play the game where my head has not been in it but clearly this approach is not helpful. I would prefer to give you space because clearly this right now is unhelpful and unpleasant for everyone involved so I'm going to limit my engagement here for now. Hopefully in the future we can both be in a spot to have actual dialogue.

you're not the bully somehting is just WRONG with me.

okay?

this isn't you this is me osmething is wrong with me

well I'm sorry

but I'd prefer for you to not play against wincon because you're having problems but I also want you to not feel this way so I'm going to break this off and stop posting for tonight. I think you would do well to log off and come back at a later time. Best wishes.

[catboi]

so i think okay i'll feel guilty as shit for being the fucking singular person who shoved cakez into that position and made them want to quit because i'm a piece of shit who couldn't even gather enough energy to save the fucking person when i did change my mind. it'd be one thing if it was a wrong read but i just let them down. I let them down and i feel completely demoralized.

so tried being ANGRY instead. Getting upset with Notty for hammering but he was just trying to have fun too and he's my friend so getting ANGRY didn't work so i just got EMPTY. so so so so empty. posting in this game became a herculean trial. i get prodded multiple times including the one today and so i'm like okay okay i have to do something so i cmoe back in read the thread and it's just "oh LLD probably was just being scum and not trying very hard" and it hit my guilt all over again but then i saw the apology to cakez and i was like i can't even apologize. i was the one responsible for making this friend of mine want to quit mafia and i can't do anything about it and now i have to try and defend myself about it?

I think there's a collective responsibility thing here and I don't think you're solely to blame, i was part of the problem too. I think it's important to recognize that while a mistake was made beating yourself up excessively doesn't accomplish anything.

It's game. People make mistakes as part of the game. Most of us try to pretend like we know what we're doing but really we're throwing darts blindfolded. sometimes you're wrong and there are things you could have done better but we can talk it out with him postgame and try to make amends but for now we have to keep playing.

I feel like I'm spending too wrong writing stuff like this but like. It's going to be okay. Don't take this so seriously. That's all I want to say.

[catboi]

At the risk of seeming cold and uncaring, I'm taking the last page and a half as NAI for everyone involved. The claim is noted, but that's it. Any further commentary seems beyond the scope of the game and better suited for postgame, where everyone can trust that everyone else is coming from an honest, well-wishing place.

That is correct as far as I go but I still had stance I took and you can evaluate me on those

hot take:

VOTE: LLD

I think she's not been towny where other people have exhibited some signs and in the back of my mind I have been thinking the wavelength kill makes sense as a low info kill.

When you are comfortable talking about this again, why do you associate low-info kill with LLD

because I had figured most people are more straightforward and kill someone who's generally townread, she'd be more likely to make a kill based on how it might influence the gamestate.

I dunno how much I want to commit to that right now, I clearly need to ponder things a bit more

[catboi]

I did have similar doubts to syr on that dunn post

[catboi]

I did have similar doubts to syr on that dunn post

I feel like it's not uncommon for me to make posts like that, do you disagree with that?

I'm not understanding the pushback

I would say that's correct, you make posts like that, but it still gave me a bad

feeling

, looking at it.

I have an idea what the problem is with your post Dunn, but before I talk about it I'd like catboi to elaborate on his doubts

If it's anything more detailed than "bad gut feeling" I'm afraid I don't have it for you, I just looked at the post and that was the sense I got. The vote felt over-explained, maybe?

[catboi]

Beyond that, I'd actually be willing to catboi as well, who my brain has sort of filed as LLD Lite. There's more meaningful content there but nothing about it stands out as clearly coming from town.

I appreciate that you are at last taking some level of meaningful stance on my alignment, because it has felt actively bizarre to me people seemingly don't really have any sort of opinion on me. This game has unfortunately been a struggle for me, which is kind of a theme fot a lot of games running back to last year. I didn't have that problem in PYP, I don't know what the issue is, I don't feel compelled to check the game. Normally I'd expect some suspicion or at least people commenting on me but a lot of the game doesn't seem to be saying much about me.

Still, it feels bizarre to me that on Day 2 of a micro your threshold for being willing to vote someone is "not clearly coming from town"? That doesn't feel like you're...actually trying to solve my alignment or investigate deeper meanings. Similarly, your reasoning for LLD is she "lacks discernible explanations for stances". That doesn't really strike me as a believable tell at all - just because someone isn't explaining their reads it doesn't mean they don't have any, I would sincerely doubt she wouldn't have reasons, regardless of her alignment. But you haven't bothered to actually try and investigate her at all, like possibly asking for explanations, just taken the stance you'd be okay with voting her. That doesn't sit right with me.

[catboi]

Alright, well, you're here now. Where are you at?

I'm rereading the end of Day 1 to fully form opinions

I kind of think notty's posting is

not great

still but wouldn't really be shocked for him to flip town, Dunn/ydrasse/kilga/you I've been starting to feel are surface-level okay but I haven't really bothered to contemplate you more deeply, my brain has not fully clicked to actually thinking about this game yet.

In this post I'm surface level ok recently, and this is after Syr takes issue with my post

Which makes it look like you are lying right now when you say you just had a bad feeling about my post. Because you are contradicting yourself

No. What had happened was I hadn't actually read the full end of Day 1. I generally don't read up during night phase and the whole end of the Day happened while I was AFK from the game. This is verifiable be me being prodded. I had thought you were okay but didn't really care for that post when I got to it.

[catboi]

Hold on let's back up

In 351 Syryana says my post felt performative

In post 411 catboi says they have similar doubts to Syr

But now you are saying that it is normal for me to make posts like that and you just had a bad

feeling

, and also say I could be over-explaining

So what is it? Am I being performative, am I over-explaining, or do you have a bad feeling?

I had a bad feeling when I read the post. My thought was that the vote could have been an opportunistic one, given cakez was the lead wagon, and the way you justified the vote felt like you

might

have been going to great lengths to justify it. I think in that spot scum are more likely to over-explain a vote. I think saying a vote is performative or overexplained can mean the same thing - that someone is going to lengths to unnecessarily justify something because they unconsciously see their action as suspicious and are trying to ward off the acccusation. At least that's my armchair psychology thought on the tell.


I will state also for the record I'm not voting you or pushing you over that post as of this moment. I'm still trying to read over the game and sort out how I feel. I noted that one thing. I think it makes syr more likely to be town in my mind but it doesn't necessarily make you scum.

[catboi]

okay, I'm going to try to get my head back in the game tonight. Mercy of MS deadlines is we still have a lot of time left even if the day's been slow so far.

[catboi]

sorry, i suck

i'll get to this this morning so i'm not distracted by the basketball

[catboi]

so do u think im partnered with syr : ?

i feel as if ive expressed more of a wolfread on u/through my actions this game than syr so this should not be a surprise but youre leaving the implication vague.
i also dont really know what about my lack of posting abt you two does to undermine my previously given reads
youve done nothing to change it nor warrant avoiding a vote

Basically, between the stuff I mentioned yesterday and what I quoted there, I don't think you're paying attention to your own stated suspicions. Like, yes, you've been Unpleased with me for most of the game, but you went from a statement of "i’d probably vote (kilga) last of (cakez, syr, kilga)" to restating a desire to vote for me without any mention of what happened to your Syr read in the meantime.

I do think you and Syr is certainly possible as the solution given the above and a general feeling from how I think the Mafia team would have approached the Cakez situation post-claim, but I'm not yet as sold on Syr as I am on you.

do you think me not paying attention is a wolfy trait
like do you think im just being careless with my play

my reasons to wolfread you were the ones i remembered more because i voted you most of yesterday, syr is still there and also on the wagon so like points there but me wanting to kill you is just falling back on where i voted all d1

this is the kind of response though that makes me feel like you and syr could be together though because youre like well IM NOT THERE YET on syr but more there on me and its like, micro game, push out townie and then fight for one more elim while keeping syr just out of danger

okay so in this exxchange I think ydrasse comes off better and kilga's attack on ydrasse feels like a very trivial type of gotcha, which I do not like

[catboi]

I appreciate that you are at last taking some level of meaningful stance on my alignment, because it has felt actively bizarre to me people seemingly don't really have any sort of opinion on me. This game has unfortunately been a struggle for me, which is kind of a theme fot a lot of games running back to last year. I didn't have that problem in PYP, I don't know what the issue is, I don't feel compelled to check the game. Normally I'd expect some suspicion or at least people commenting on me but a lot of the game doesn't seem to be saying much about me.

It's not really all that surprising, is it? Other than call dunn town you've been riding that fence so hard this game I get splinters every time you post. You voted cakez, but went afk while he died (yes, I know, other games, engagement here, we're not gonna get anywhere going down that road I'm just making the point) then came back and complained because he got killed because you were just voting for pressure. You voted LLD once for pressure since.

I STILL don't have a solid opinion on you. I know you as either alignment can play better than you've been playing and I can see the play you've shown thus far to be coming from a disengaged either alignment. Unfortunately that's been true of a lot of people this game, not just you.

I've gotten off track, I think. My original point was "why are you surprised nobody's commenting on you when you're one of several completely disengaged players this game".

I think...normally I'm more used to people having

some

form of opinion on me even when I'm not invested in the game. The treatment is...weird? Even if a player isn't invested in the game it's kind of surprising to have people seemingly punt on making a read on me at all.

If you don't have an opinion on me, are you just waiting for me to get my head into the game or what?

[catboi]

was mentally conditioned to click the little arrow in the quote tags and this fix momentarily broke my brain

[catboi]

Yeah I came to that conclusion after rereading my post. I think I'm overthinking that one.

Pedit: Killing you for the hammer is stupid. You choreographed that you were lolhammering all day, and we all knew as soon as literally anyone was at E-1 they were gonna die if you were paying any attention. That reminds me, I wanted to ask him something.

That it was telegraphed dosn't...change a whole lot for me. Like, do you think he couldn't/wouldn't play it that way as scum? Because that's not really hard to do and has obvious pro-scum utility. Actually, the hammer bothers me significantly less than the "wait what" after cakez made his "fuck you I was town" post - that looked artificial to me. I've been giving notty space though because if he's town I want to give him an opportunity to show it rather than blindly killing but so far I'm not really whelmed by anything I'm seeing from him.

Dude I’m just having trouble parsing kilga

Like his push on ydra for inconsistency in a fourteen page game??

But I also realize I’m not the reigning authority when it comes to ydra as I’ve already kinda mentioned. But I am on the town side of the spectrum, it’s just with these little voices on my shoulders saying “why are you seeing it here and not there”

My problem with Ydra is that according to her she was very excited to play the game in RVS then just dropped off the face of the earth. Inconsistency is one thing but she starts off after with srsKilgaVote, then says spiritually she thinks Cakez is scum too, then pops me into the mix because I'm "holding hands with people", whatever that means. There's no thought behind her play, no reevaluation after being wrong on Cakez. Hell, if I had a dayvig shot I'd have dayvigged Kilga yesterday and even

I'm

reevaluating. She accused Kilga of lining up miselims, but I think it looks more like that's what she's doing than Kilga.

I don't really think that's close to what she's doing at all and in fact she's probably one of the people I'm more confident is town out of anything.

[catboi]

i want to vote you but i'm hesitant because i am stupid and dont get what youre doing

if it helps I also want to vote kilga atp

[catboi]

Okay, because? I don't know that I've ever even played with Ydra before so I have nothing to go on there.

Is "trust me bro" not going to cut it? (probably not). I look at her posts and see them as coming from a townsperson. There's a high level of familiarity involved here and I'm not sure how well I'll be able to put it into words but I'll try to do a little when I have the time

[catboi]

his posting today has been underwhelming after promising to do things but he also had that big v/la so i dunno

i don't have good reason to townread him now though. i want to give him a chance to actually play...still


atm - i think ydrasse is town, i kind of liked dunn popping off at me when he thought i was shading him for bad reasons

going to keep rereading stuff

[catboi]

his posting today has been underwhelming after promising to do things but he also had that big v/la so i dunno

i don't have good reason to townread him now though. i want to give him a chance to actually play...still

Oh for god's sake just bus him already

it's cute that you think i need that much prompting

but i'm not ruling out the possibility he's town who has completely potato'd this game, not intentionally, but just because of unfortunate circumstances, and i'm being guarded against that possibility

if his play is a problem then he's gotta go but after my last game i'm not going to act like this is a slam dunk

[catboi]

hot take:

VOTE: LLD

I think she's not been towny where other people have exhibited some signs and in the back of my mind I have been thinking the wavelength kill makes sense as a low info kill.

That's a spicy take indeed. What makes you think scum, specifically? Happy to wait until you're done with your reread.

Pedit I agree the cakez back off was underwhelming. Thing is for me the little fingerwag she did at the start of toDay doesn't really ring scum for me, I wouldn't expect such an... obvious? move to come from her as scum.

I know this post is a week old, but what do you mean by the finger wag thing?

[catboi]

after the, uh, moment that derailed the game I don't have a ton of commentary to add

- I think syr is pretty towny actually and I liked what he was doing on page 14, it feels like he has been trying to kick the game into gear even if the engine won't start

- still think kilga is scummy

[catboi]

and since I think you're town I can maybe try to explain that ydrasse townread to you

[catboi]

- I think syr is pretty towny actually and I liked what he was doing on page 14, it feels like he has been trying to kick the game into gear even if the engine won't start

- still think kilga is scummy

As for the first part, if you hadn't seen it by now I'd be speed-yeeting you

As for the second, why?

Also you still owe me that explanation for Naidrasse

sorry lol i've been in a funk this game but i think i'm getting back into it

i will get to discussing ydrasse now

[catboi]

uhm

before I go on

please let's refrain from making this personal

it's just a game and there's no need to get super heated

[catboi]

I'm gonna be honest I looked at that notty post and my first instinct was "antispew". I try to avoid saying that because it's really not nice to say about someone when it's incorrect, but. Feels like beyond phoning it in it's refusing to commit to anything meaningful which I'd associae with not wanting to give anything away

[catboi]

I'm gonna be honest I looked at that notty post and my first instinct was "antispew". I try to avoid saying that because it's really not nice to say about someone when it's incorrect, but. Feels like beyond phoning it in it's refusing to commit to anything meaningful which I'd associae with not wanting to give anything away

right but this day is so fragile and unmotivated, if Notty just took a hard line stand on say like, Syr, he'd kill Syr.

Hardline stance in Kilga maybe kills Kilga.

So Notty could live here, why isn't he trying to?

*shrug*

not everyone has the will, if he's scum he's afraid of tripping up or can't bring himself to push a fake case

[catboi]

stuff on ydrasse for

@syr

. I'm going to spoiler tag this even though I had doing so but I feel like I need to pull quotes to be able to explain what I'm seeing here

Spoiler:

so do u think im partnered with syr : ?

i feel as if ive expressed more of a wolfread on u/through my actions this game than syr so this should not be a surprise but youre leaving the implication vague.
i also dont really know what about my lack of posting abt you two does to undermine my previously given reads
youve done nothing to change it nor warrant avoiding a vote

so do u think im partnered with syr : ?

i feel as if ive expressed more of a wolfread on u/through my actions this game than syr so this should not be a surprise but youre leaving the implication vague.
i also dont really know what about my lack of posting abt you two does to undermine my previously given reads
youve done nothing to change it nor warrant avoiding a vote

Basically, between the stuff I mentioned yesterday and what I quoted there, I don't think you're paying attention to your own stated suspicions. Like, yes, you've been Unpleased with me for most of the game, but you went from a statement of "i’d probably vote (kilga) last of (cakez, syr, kilga)" to restating a desire to vote for me without any mention of what happened to your Syr read in the meantime.

I do think you and Syr is certainly possible as the solution given the above and a general feeling from how I think the Mafia team would have approached the Cakez situation post-claim, but I'm not yet as sold on Syr as I am on you.

do you think me not paying attention is a wolfy trait
like do you think im just being careless with my play

my reasons to wolfread you were the ones i remembered more because i voted you most of yesterday, syr is still there and also on the wagon so like points there but me wanting to kill you is just falling back on where i voted all d1

this is the kind of response though that makes me feel like you and syr could be together though because youre like well IM NOT THERE YET on syr but more there on me and its like, micro game, push out townie and then fight for one more elim while keeping syr just out of danger

Responses to kilga - have a little bit of self-righteousness to them which I think comes from a town mindset. The last line in bold is paranoid and worldbuilding on a slight thing, comes across as genuine from her as looking at angles and reading into words closely. I just buy it as a real suspicion and not an angle she's pushing as scum because it does not feel convenient or contrived

Spoiler:

do you think me not paying attention is a wolfy trait
like do you think im just being careless with my play

I think that townies, by virtue of being genuine in their wolfhunting, will actually have the opinions that they claim to have and believe the things they say and be consistent about it as a result, where wolves, by virtue of not being genuine in their wolfhunting, will be far more prone to either forgetting the things they said previously or simply not caring about being consistent as long as they can say whatever they need to in order to survive.

my reasons to wolfread you were the ones i remembered more because i voted you most of yesterday, syr is still there and also on the wagon so like points there but me wanting to kill you is just falling back on where i voted all d1

You apparently felt unconfident enough in your vote to remove it in 187, though, which makes sense in the context of the immediate followup where you put me behind Cakez and Syr but

doesn't

make sense now in that you're "still inclined to vote" me but have nothing to say about Syr (or even me, beyond the statement that you're still inclined to vote for me). Under the assumption that your wolfhunting is genuine, either Syr is equal to or ahead of me on your list and you're pursuing your tied-for-first/second target while not doing anything to pursue your tied-for-first/outright first, or I'm ahead of Syr and the ordering in 188 is a lie, making the unvote in 187 extra strange. Neither of these seem likely at all, which means the only conclusion I can reach is that the assumption that your wolfhunting is genuine must be faulty, at which point we go back to my previous paragraph.

i'm not gonna lie the way these posts are written make my eyes glaze over a little bit so i don't know if i'm understanding your point in full but i think that your methodology is flawed given that i could just reference my posts if i actually cared about them being perfectly consistent and presenting that to everyone

like i just dont care that much about distinguishing equal than or greater two reads in this game lol

if youre town and want to understand me better i genuinely dont think approaching it like this to understand my thoughts is going to work because there's too much ... tangling in your post or explanation

as it is i think that this isn't an interesting way to solve and i feel like there is some content you could probably divine but haven't really done so &_&
i want to vote you but i'm hesitant because i am stupid and dont get what youre doing

There's a puzzled uncertainty in this response to kilga where she's working through trying to decide whether he's actually scum or not, I buy it, it feels like gears turning, it feels inwwardly focused in terms of what she's writing rather than trying to directly confront her attacker

Spoiler:

im going to be real with you
im playing this game entirely off of vibes and i dont think that theres going to be as much logic as you want to hear
for example my gut is saying "wow this is weird questioning" if only because it seems like the last point in the series of questions is missing the idea that i could not be married to the kilga/syr read and it's a bit ! that you're attached to it and went down like... a setup extreme instead of just wondering if any of the people i have expressed any curiosity in could be interchangeable
it's mostly just how you feel and i know that you are wrong on me and like are townreading/fine with a lot of other people so you have an incredibly small pool you're actually interested in but i don't think ? that really reflects in your posting

i like the last line here, but overall the whole post reads genuine and in line with what i expect from ydrasse as town. she's playing intuitively and can't fully articulate thoughts but when she does manage to form words around it it

makes sense to me

taken all together I look at these posts and they seem like someone who's solving

[catboi]

anyway, i don't want to kill notty today anymore, sadly.

there's been enough apathy and very little time left that this new apathy string doesn't feel like it saves him so i wonder

then who are you looking at

[catboi]

anyway, i don't want to kill notty today anymore, sadly.

there's been enough apathy and very little time left that this new apathy string doesn't feel like it saves him so i wonder

then who are you looking at

Syr You or Kilga

i really think syr is playing his town game here

[catboi]

yes I'm fucking with you, i don't know what elements of her play you consider suspicious here. i know i'm making you do more work than i otherwise usually would but treat me like i'm barely holding on this game lol

Per 486, I think Ydrasse is a wolf for repeatedly refusing to explain why she has the suspicions/thought processes she has posted. Given 489 and 494 have since followed, I suppose this could be modified to "I think Ydrasse is a wolf for being exceedingly vague, to the point of total unhelpfulness, as to why she has the suspicions/thought processes she has posted." 407 is the primary post here from me, if you're looking for a starting point; the questions in that post either were answered with what boils down to "gut, sorry" or not answered at all. I can get into the weeds of why "being exceedingly vague, to the point of total unhelpfulness, as to why one has the suspicions/thought processes one has posted" is Wolf Behavior, but that's largely theorycraft that I don't really want to have to clog the thread with if I can avoid it.

Given there are less than 36 hours remaining before deadline, I suppose I should say that, while I would prefer Ydrasse get chucked off the island, I would be willing to compromise on catboi. I'm not really interested in booting !science - I feel the emotion shown throughout the day is genuine - and would only vote that way if necessary to avoid ending the day without an elimination.

see i don't actually believe this is genuine whatsoever

"she is scum for not explaining reads" is something I expect scum to push on in, like, a newbie game it's a very

basic

notion of what scum do but isn't particularly grounded in reality

she's playing the game more intuitively rather than being strongly logical and I think it's possible to recognize that some people act that way. she's capable of making up logical sounding arguments as scum and if anything the lack of energy/struggle to articulate is more likelya towntell

but

also

she

has

ventured into explaining her views of the game and it makes sense to me when she has done it so acting like she has not done anything feels uncharitable


so I don't really buy that you're actually looking to sort people here. You're just coming in going "not explain = scum" and that is the behavior I would expect scum to take because it's a very unimaginative line of thought that is easy to push. I don't think you're trying to find scum over looking for things to push

[catboi]

anyway, i don't want to kill notty today anymore, sadly.

there's been enough apathy and very little time left that this new apathy string doesn't feel like it saves him so i wonder

then who are you looking at

Syr You or Kilga

i really think syr is playing his town game here

yeah?

last brush was scum him was in a game where he got hyperposted to death and lost all motivation and burned out for a couple years so may not be definitive but it's like

in that game he just kind of put on a show of faked enthusiasm and go gittem boys attitude but there was never any substance behind it and when things started getting more nuanced he couldn't come up with anything

and here he's solvey and trying to lead stuff and has, like, actual depth of thought

[catboi]

Ydras such a weird push to make as scum in this position though

not if she's been consistently maintaining suspicion of him for most of the game? omgus and discredit your attacker is

pretty reliable

play, if anything

[catboi]

Can I just take a moment to say the fixed quote tags are very comforting they're just so aesthetic to look at

[catboi]

I suppose. Just figured the lack of traction makes it iffy, especially in a day that’s dragging out like this one has

She’s also presently voting me iirc?

Maybe I just have a soft spot from pushing her as town when everyone kept saying she was just town and I’m drawing some false equivalency or something

i don't really subscribe to wagonomics based arguments except when I need to bullshit reasons to try to get people to agree with me, I think kilga keeps pushing that angle because why not

especially if people are defaulting to you and you are town it is extremely beneficial for scum to be looking elsewhere and distancing from your wagon assuming you'll be shrugyeeted

and like then plausibly he's set up a 1v1 in elo with a bunch of arguments he's already laid groundwork to discredit her with

[catboi]

also sometimes scum don't always make pushes that are like,totally logical or obviously tactical even though I think what kilga is doing makes tons of sense from a scum pov

"weird" pushes can come from town or scum but the objective is to assess motivation and, well. I don't buy what kilga is saying

[catboi]

i just don't think Catboi/Kilga are T/T

this because of POE or just a feeling from the argument?

[catboi]

argument feeling

i've been getting weird vibes from you both seperately and also your interactions are not showing me T/T. someone in this argument knows too much and the argument is presenting itself that way

it's like... i can't tell you what i'm suppose to expect. but what i am looking at isn't natural and my everything screams it.

so one of you is scum, in my mind, if not both, but probably not both?

fair enough just wanted to know what the thinking was

[catboi]

i just don't think Catboi/Kilga are T/T

agree

i mean i hope i'm right

it hasn't felt like a game where i can have faith in a scumread to bet the game on it here on day 2 - just hasn't been enough substance for me to make that call

but

i feel reasonably okay about my townreads and based on those there are not that many suspects

[catboi]

[catboi]

Pretty sure that's E-1.

Thoughts about anyone else notty?

Catboi? LLD?

Also I'm apparently Syrians now. Thanks Gif.

it's E-2

[catboi]

I don’t think catboi is bussing here and I could both see his skepticism with approaching me overall here as both towb or as buddying

I dunno on LLD and I feel like that’s just kinda the norm? Like if anything it feels like she took the criticism about not actually stopping the Cakez elim to heart but I dunno if that’s NAI. I dunno why scum LLD pulls me out of the frying pan when I’m probably the most liable in this game to paranoia vote her, but I feel like this becomes wifom really fast too

i'm not clearing her based off anything she's posted so far

[catboi]

ok then

i don't have anything left to add

VOTE: kilga

[catboi]

me last vote notscience

i was hoping to play into it even though there is a vote count at the top of the page

[catboi]

idk if we don't go to night i might try to check back in the morning to see if i missed anything

[catboi]

Just want to take a moment to say I appreciate you all. The game has been weird and there have been some rough patches but I am having fun. I hope you all can do the same regardless of outcome here!

[catboi]

this game is a pit of hell from which we cannot escape

the game's what you make it, try to look on the positive side~

Just want to take a moment to say I appreciate you all. The game has been weird and there have been some rough patches but I am having fun. I hope you all can do the same regardless of outcome here!

Are...are you running for president? I'd vote for you.

time to get yeeted because I felt like cheering people up lmao

[catboi]

sigh

[catboi]

VOTE: no elim

[catboi]

I'm steadfastly against no killing unless it's absolutely necessary, not that anyone should believe me on that. I find evens significantly more painful than odds as scum, regardless of what people say about the probability.

That being said, I'm perfectly okay with voting no elim over and over and going to a draw/rocks fall/however GiF resolves these scenarios b/c this certainly doesn't feel like a winnable game

[catboi]

yeah

[catboi]

I assume everyone left claims VT but I'll wait for everyone to check in first just to be sure

[catboi]

So I say "no don't kill Cakez" we kill Cakez

I say "let's do Catboi" and we do Kilga instead

and when I try to get someone to claim something that could have stopped the kill, we turbo no elim to end day faster

didn't look like anyone was claiming anything to me

i should have waited i guess

shrug

[catboi]

I want to hear who people want to vote first

[catboi]

as in who they think should cast the first vote

[catboi]

I'm VT.

I think somebody who is town is lying about being a VT because I find it hard to believe we only have a tracker and a 1-shot bulletproof.

i think it's entirely plausible in a micro

[catboi]

I want to hear who people want to vote first

hahahah

no.

there's 2 scum first vote doesn't realistically matter

i want to know what my top 2 scum suspects who I think are the scumteam are trying to sell me because I'm supposed to be open minded even though I have 0 information to adjust my reads at this point because everyone who has died has died with my thinking they're town

and the fact i'm alive and haven't been shot means scum either wants me to be the final elimination or i'm wrong on who scum is and i'll lose us this game so

i need your reads

If you think I'm scum then just say you want me to vote first that was my goal with this exercise

[catboi]

no I want you to stop being inflexible about it and tell me your reads

you're doing an absolutes thing which isn't town and yes i suspect you but i'm also tryign to keep myself open and figure things out.

I don't want ANYONE to vote, I want people to declare who they think is scum

I didn't say I was going to vote I was saying I want people to declare who they want to vote

I don't have a strong idea of who is scum at all


but if you were going to come into the day tunneled on me, I was willing to crossvote you and take the loss if we're both town. that's not a read as much as it is a resignation because I'm aware of the fact that I'm playing pretty poorly

[catboi]

no I want you to stop being inflexible about it and tell me your reads

you're doing an absolutes thing which isn't town and yes i suspect you but i'm also tryign to keep myself open and figure things out.

I don't want ANYONE to vote, I want people to declare who they think is scum

I didn't say I was going to vote I was saying I want people to declare who they want to vote

I don't have a strong idea of who is scum at all


but if you were going to come into the day tunneled on me, I was willing to crossvote you and take the loss if we're both town. that's not a read as much as it is a resignation because I'm aware of the fact that I'm playing pretty poorly

I'm asking you for GTH. I'm not really certain no matter what at this point, I have my current GTH as you/syr. It's ELO though so I'm not gonna just rip it and flip it.

you/dunn if i had to guess right this instant but don't take that as locked in

[catboi]

I thought you townread me catboi?

yeah and then we misyeeted kilga so clearly I'm wrong on someone

if I'm town, and you're town, who am I misreading? Why do you think it's syry?

[catboi]

But why is that someone me instead of syr/notsci if you were townreading me but less so for the other two?

I was townreading Syr more than you as of Day 2

notty I don't know, I was just taking a wild guess that scum have mostly been blindspotted this game and that's why things have played out the way they have

[catboi]

I think that Syryana has constantly been on the wrong side of things this game. They pushed for Sircakez and then pushed for Kilga. And they also pushed notscience yesterday and tried to set up kilga/yourself as not being aligned yesterday (yet you don't take issue with that?) along with LLD

I did the same though and I'm town

no one has been on the right side of things so it's kind of hard to say that makes anyone scum?

I know he did do that but I don't think it's...impossible for a townie to have that read? I realize it's possible I'm giving him too much credit but again this is a

purely instinctive

guess rather than anything I have reasoned through

LLD felt like she might have been setting up to push me today with how she handled it though

[catboi]

letting the town fuck up while you stand back and watch is valid strategy

[catboi]

letting the town fuck up while you stand back and watch is valid strategy

Yeah so is just about anything. Doesn't mean they are all equally likely.

I don't see why I shouldn't consider that as a possibility?

[catboi]

Quote numbers are borked

clicking the link still leads to the right post so it must be an indexing thing, dunno if a post got deleted or what

can check to see if postnum tags still work correctly 625 200

okay they work earlier in the game but not now so i'm assuming a post got deleted and messed it up

[catboi]

I actually started feeling like dunn might be town from his recent posting though

[catboi]

I actually started feeling like dunn might be town from his recent posting though

Do you think notscience is scum?

I don't know

[catboi]

I don't think it being S/S theater is out of the question. I think it's probably T/S, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was S/S either.

it's definitely not out of range for either of us!

[catboi]

hadthe realization this morning that I want to vote first if I can

it's selfish, but if I am right, I get one confirmed scum and can try to solve for a partner. Right now I feel like there's too much uncertainty for me to try to figure out the team.

[catboi]

and yes I realize that me ssaying there's too much uncertainty goes against me wanting to vote first I don't care

[catboi]

I saw, yeah. Wonder if it was like that on the old board or if 3.2 did this differently or we did something on the old board to correct it. I'll investigate. Wonder if we can change it so it hides posts rather than deletes so it doesn't mess w/ the numbering.

pretty sure it happened in a mini normal I modded where I deleted a post too

[catboi]

anyway took a day off so didn't even realize this had ended until now

gg scum

sorry town my heart wasn't in this game at all, I've lost like 9 of my last 10 games or something like that

I was ready to kill notty day 2 but I sort of conceded that read to other people, just assumed scum were content to keep him around

my last thought before I logged off was that his posting was pretty bad in that moment but I don't know that I'd have ever pulled the trigger on it