Mini 2292: Anything uPick - Game Over!

[Wavelength]

No, he just ninja'd me, because I wrote a longer post lol

[Wavelength]

But if you think that there is even a 1% chance that I am town

hahahaha

no

You have Confirmed not town vs someone you scum read.

That is your choice for today.

If there was ever a world where the last scum was flea, and not me, then you have to at least try for it.

[Wavelength]

I am town, and I feel like my iso makes it very clear, but I also don't know how much of it you have even read :/

Your ISO make it too much clear that you're scum and you're relying on Enchant not reading it.

I would love for him to read my iso. End of day 1/start of day 2 talking about marashu vs taking your summary of it.

[Wavelength]

I am town, but even if you think that I am not, killing pink ball has the chance of letting 2 people out.

even if you think that we are both scum, that is the only kill that even has a chance of town winning.

It is confirmed SK with a possible town win path VS maybe scum with a guaranteed loss.

[Wavelength]

I debated if it was worth fake claiming scum and that I know that your people drop out to try and force him to make the right choice, but decided against it.

pedit: I kind of assume that if you drop people that your death / their release would be simultaneous ?

[Wavelength]

It is confirmed SK with a possible town win path VS maybe scum with a guaranteed loss.

Anyways, I really need to go.

So just gonna leave this for you Enchant.

Good luck

[Wavelength]

You are confirmed anti-town, unless we assume that you are breaking site rules.

I don't think that you are breaking site rules, but you backed yourself into a corner where the only way that you win is to pretend that you are.

[Wavelength]

If his options are:

Vote you, and win on the spot. OR Vote me, and try to win a 1v1 with me, and maybe lose the game

Then he is playing against win con.

But those are not his choices.

[Wavelength]

Also i believe you cannot accuse players of breaking rules. So can we not

I am literally accusing him of not breaking site rules ,but sure. I will drop it. I made the point already.

[Wavelength]

If you were a survivor, why did you previously argue that the game would continue even if you had all of the scum inside you?

What was the rational behind saying that the game would not end?

[Wavelength]

If you were a survivor, why did you previously argue that the game would continue even if you had all of the scum inside you?

What was the rational behind saying that the game would not end?

where

I'm on mobile right now, but I can find the posts for you later

[Wavelength]

then I realized that I could get eliminated the next day if we eliminated scum that day

What is the world where we eliminated scum that day, and the game did not end, with you holding PP inside of you and Marashu already dead?

You were hedging against 4 scum or something ? lol

[Wavelength]

Why would "scum inside me count as dead for the town win con" make you more likely to be killed then "actually, scum inside of me have the potential to win and we have to deal with them at some point"

[Wavelength]

If Pink ball is SK then why mafia wincon so strangely worded to allow them to win 1vs1 against SK?

I have no idea why the mod decided that the scum team's wincon trumps the SK tbh.

[Wavelength]

Maybe because if it got down to 1:1:1, and the SK ate the town, and the Mafia killed the SK, it would make the mafia lose?

And he wanted to avoid that?

I don't know though, seems like a question for the mod post game.

[Wavelength]

Enchant, just to touch base back on my night actions.

I feel like all of my night actions make more sense if you look at them through the lens of "how can I use this to catch a bad guy."

Instead of thinking of how I could use them to clear either myself or another townie. Because that is how I was using them. And maybe that was bad, but it was how I used it.

I thought that my first cross examination was going to be a guilty on Ircher.
If thought my first court record was going to catch Pinkball lying about his flavor.
I thought my second cross examination could catch pinkball in a lie about his night actions.

Then I thought my last flavor cop and my bunny mask were useless at that point.

I actually think that if I were scum, I would have realized that the bunny mask could be used to try to clear me the first night after we no elimed, and I would have used it then.

[Wavelength]

Voting pink ball is a win.

I do not know what the win con stuff means.

But the game is not over, and you are confirmed town, so he must be anti-town from my pov.

[Wavelength]

He cannot win if he votes you right now, and that is an empty threat just to pressure you into voting wrong.

[Wavelength]

But the game is not over, and you are confirmed town, so he must be anti-town from my pov.

If you're town, how is he conftown from your point of view?
Ooooooooooooh shit you got caught once again

Because he did not hammer me when you voted for me?

[Wavelength]

He cannot win if he votes you right now, and that is an empty threat just to pressure you into voting wrong.

I can, because you will vote them or you would go against your wincon by not voting them

I will not hammer them because I am town, and you know that.

So it is an empty threat

[Wavelength]

If you vote enchant, you confirm me town too. And you suddenly have no out to win.

[Wavelength]

if I vote you right now sooooo...

I would say putting a imminent time frame on it is pressure.

[Wavelength]

If you vote enchant, you confirm me town too. And you suddenly have no out to win.

lol i have bad feeling about this

He will never do this. My point is that he will never vote for you this day phase now that you are confirmed.

And any threats he is making to do so are fake to scare you.

[Wavelength]

2426 looked a lot to me like

"Vote for wave now, or I am going to reconsider winning with scum!wave, and vote you!"

If that is not what you were saying to him, then sure. But that is absolutely how I read it. As pressure to get him to vote me.

[Wavelength]

I don't care if you care what I think.

But I need enchant to see it for what it is.

So I told him.

[Wavelength]

All my posts were trying to do was ensure that Enchant was not under false pressure.

I saw what looked like pressure (that you could not follow through on), I let him know that it could not be a real threat.

If it was not a real threat against him, then it seems like we agree? lol

[Wavelength]

I was saying "Pink Ball is never going to vote you here, so don't worry about that possibility"

And you are coming back to fight the good fight that you were never threatening to vote him here.

Great. We are all on the same page. Mission Accomplished.

[Wavelength]

Lol

[Wavelength]

Why are you lol'ing, you're caught now

This changes nothing for me.

The mod saw Enchant considering misclearing you because of his mistake, and fixed it.

[Wavelength]

That means I can only townside so it's true that I won't ever vote Enchant here

Are you saying that your wincon magically changed too?

That it was all a lie when you said over and over that you could win with the mafia, and the mod did not let you know it was false?

And the mod did not actually do anything until a townie almost said you could not be a SK because of the wincons?

[Wavelength]

I'm not cleared, but now it's confirmed that you're scum

The clarification has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with Enchant trying to disprove you as a possible SK.

[Wavelength]

I actually think that the mod post *proves* that you were never a Survivor, and that is actually pretty fucked for you, and this game is scuffed.

[Wavelength]

Today was my last day of VLA, I should be around tomorrow

[Wavelength]

Enchant, flea is just scum trying to keep their options open.

I have a hard time believing that flea even read most of yesterday given fear entrance today, and its because they don't need sort between us, and so they did not need to read what we had to say.

And if you remember, the day before I was thought that you were scum and flea was town, and you were also calling me scummy. So if you skip reading last day phase, flea has a reason to believe that by sitting on the sidelines, one of you or I will end up voting the other.

VOTE: flea

[Wavelength]

Looking back, no-lim was mistake. We could had 2 chances instead i think.

I do think that it would have been better, but I don't actually think that it would have given us an extra shot?

Just would have given us kokichi or ali today to help you sort.

[Wavelength]

I am pretty sure that if I were actually scum this game, I would have decided to take my chances with Kokichi deciding the vote instead of you, given how little you were willing to budge on me possibly being town even when up against confirmed 3p as the alternative.

[Wavelength]

Ah yes that bunny mask would confirm you as not killing last night.

How cool you wasted it right?

I had no way to know that it would fail the night before that.

It was only "wasted" because I thought flea was town, so flea was the person I sent it to -- and PinkBall happened to eat flea, when he was threatening to eat me

[Wavelength]

Like yes, still having the mask last night would have been better, but I had no way to know that.

[Wavelength]

You should't had used it regardless.

To be frank, I did not realize that it even cleared me. I just saw it as a fruit vendor that blocked my invest shots when I had them.

I did not even consider the fact that it also proved I did not do the night kill.

I was thinking about it in terms of how it impacted my actual abilities.

[Wavelength]

I literally just used all of my PR shots, and then used the mask the next night once I was completely out.

[Wavelength]

I did wonder if pinkball was going to argue that there was never a redirector, because the only thing that made it seem like it existed was me getting the bunny mask.

So I was proving to flea that I did actually get it.

[Wavelength]

I feel like I have been very obviously town all game.

But you just don't like how I used my night actions, but I really don't know how to change your mind about that. I have already explained how I chose my actions each night, whether it was the best choice or not, this is how I made my decisions

I feel like all of my night actions make more sense if you look at them through the lens of "how can I use this to catch a bad guy."

Instead of thinking of how I could use them to clear either myself or another townie. Because that is how I was using them. And maybe that was bad, but it was how I used it.

I thought that my first cross examination was going to be a guilty on Ircher.
If thought my first court record was going to catch Pinkball lying about his flavor.
I thought my second cross examination could catch pinkball in a lie about his night actions.

Then I thought my last flavor cop and my bunny mask were useless at that point.

I actually think that if I were scum, I would have realized that the bunny mask could be used to try to clear me the first night after we no elimed, and I would have used it then.

Being suboptimal with my night actions does not make me scum, maybe it makes me stupid, but each night, given the information that I had AT THE TIME, I felt like I was making the right decisions

[Wavelength]

I think that the things that should make it most obvious that I am town are:

-Me pressuring Marashu at the end of day 1, after the hammer happened. Instead of just quietly letting the night phase take over, I instead spent that time pointing out how scummy Marashu was. This carried over into me voting Marashu at the start of day 2 for that before Ali/DRagons outed that they targetted him.

-Me trying SO DAMN HARD to save LLD the day that she was eliminated.

-The night that scum tried to kill Ali, it does not make sense for me to do that. Ali had been town reading me ALL GAME, and if anything, I was ready to come into the next day to argue that she was scum for the way she handled the day before. (and she confirmed she had no more powers, so it was not a PR hunt)

-I also just... don't claim that I am an invest with a pseudo innocent on Ircher the day that I did if I am scum and can claim literally anything that I want.

[Wavelength]

I am Apollo Justice from the Ace Attorney games.

First ability functionally made me novice (I had to use this ability night 1 psyching myself up for court lol)

2 shot invest to see if someone has killed or tried to kill so far this game.
2 shot flavor cop.

I used my kill invest on Ircher last night. I kind of figured that with his miller claim specifically saying it worked for trackers, then if he was he was setting himself up to be doing the night kill night 1, but my result was that he has not tried to kill. So part of why I am not sure what to do with him anymore.

Like, why in the world would this be my claim post if I am scum?

[Wavelength]

and can just make up anything?

And presumably, it I were scum, the "if someone has killed" invest would be made up entirely since that does not help scum?

[Wavelength]

But why Flea didn't just kill Pink?

I don't know really.

But presumably what ever reason there is for her, there is for me too? Like, why didn't I just kill pink?

If you want me to look into why flea would make that decision, I can look back at how things were that night

[Wavelength]

But presumably what ever reason there is for her, there is for me too? Like, why didn't I just kill pink?

That is to say, that I don't know that this question helps you sort between the two of us, if the answer is the same either way

[Wavelength]

Thinking through the no kill night.

Enchant
Wavelength
Flea
Pinkball

Pinkball was threatening to eat me. If he ate me, and flea shot pink ball, then I become confirmed town, because a kill happened the same night that I was eaten. (PB eat happens before mafia kills). So maybe fae was trying to avoid that?

[Wavelength]

But then fae should have shot you, if that was their worry...

[Wavelength]

I don't actually know why any scum would no kill that night?

[Wavelength]

Because doubling up on the same target is THE SAME as doing a no kill while pinkball eats someone. So it is either,

get eaten -- and it does not matter if you submit a kill
shoot the same person as pink ball -- and it does not matter if you submit a kill
or shoot the person that pinkball is not eating, and win on the spot.

[Wavelength]

I think that the things that should make it most obvious that I am town are:

-Me pressuring Marashu at the end of day 1, after the hammer happened. Instead of just quietly letting the night phase take over, I instead spent that time pointing out how scummy Marashu was. This carried over into me voting Marashu at the start of day 2 for that before Ali/DRagons outed that they targetted him.

-Me trying SO DAMN HARD to save LLD the day that she was eliminated.

-The night that scum tried to kill Ali, it does not make sense for me to do that. Ali had been town reading me ALL GAME, and if anything, I was ready to come into the next day to argue that she was scum for the way she handled the day before. (and she confirmed she had no more powers, so it was not a PR hunt)

-I also just... don't claim that I am an invest with a pseudo innocent on Ircher the day that I did if I am scum and can claim literally anything that I want.

Oh, I also just don't think that I ever claim getting the bunny mask if I stole it from Flea.

[Wavelength]

I used the zora mask on night 4, when I used my second cross examination shot, so that I would know if I had been redirected. No one targeted me that night.

[Wavelength]

I used the bunny mask the same night that you were eaten

[Wavelength]

I don't think you being removed from the game was ever in question.

When I was talking about the no kill, I meant the night that no one died and no one was eaten by pb

[Wavelength]

Enchant, do you have any questions or anything for us?

It kind of feels like we are just spinning our wheels right now.

[Wavelength]

Stop revving your engine then.

Im just here twiddling my thumbs waiting for enchant to hammer the game. Ive given the information I have, I cant do anymore. Enchant needs to work it out from here.

Hate to say it but yeah.

If you have anything you are thinking about or want us to weigh in on, ask us.

But I feel like I've made my case

[Wavelength]

i am bad at Elos

If you are not asking questions, then I don't know how to help you :/

[Wavelength]

I guess I can try to pull the most relevant quotes for you?

[Wavelength]

Here is my questioning Marashu after the hammer day 1, and then opening up with voting him the next day before anyone outed night actions.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Amici Curiae

Annoyed that Ircher just called me nosy instead of answering my question.

I somewhat doubt LadyL pulls out a double voter here as scum, when she could just sit on it.

I liked the meta that PB said that they did on the Sportsman

Just to get some thoughts out before we lock.

Do you think scum is more likely to try to dumbtell that though?

Why not?

Because lately in games I've played, town has been more likely to miss things like that. I'm not saying it's a towntell, but it's something I've noticed that has come from town more than scum (who I think tend to try to be more careful).

If it makes you feel better, yesterday I did a side by side of the lyrics, concluded the refrain must have done something... and only

after

that I realized that the name in the VC was blue, so critical spot check fail there

~b

This, on the other hand, looks like an attempt to look townie by relating. If Amici is scum, Pink is probably town.

Why does this not have a commentary on me also having a post similar to this?

Do you know why your name is blue in the votecount?

Well I believe that this was already pretty obvious in the first few pages. This post could be filler.

VOTE: Pink

...............

The way I went and opened up a the lyrics of the actual song and did a side by side to see what the differences were in there, but then still did not put it together with the vote count has me feeling ashamed.

Wait. That Amici post was in response to my post

Why are you connecting Amici's alignment from that post to Pink's alignment, instead of connecting it to me?

Why does this not have a commentary on me also having a post similar to this?

Yeah, it's also a bad look. I was focused more on Amici/PB because of the dueling wagons.

Why are you connecting Amici's alignment from that post to Pink's alignment, instead of connecting it to me?

Are you admitting to being Amici's partner?

I am trying to figure out why you seem to be treating my posts differently then you were treating Amici's

Why are you connecting Amici's alignment from that post to Pink's alignment, instead of connecting it to me?

Are you admitting to being Amici's partner?

No, he is not admitting anything. First of all, because our slot is green, and even if you don't believe that, your logic should dictate that if we're scum then Wave is town. I was "relating" to Wave there, not pb
~b

Oh. Derp, yeah. I misread. And then continued to misread. I get it now.

VOTE: Marashu

Where u @ w/ reads bud

Ircher and Marashu are the two at the bottom of my reads atm, but I am not sure if the Ircher stuff if just annoying me that he seems to be purposefully difficult.

I really did not like my interactions with Marashu at the end of day 1

Marashu isn't great, I can agree that it could be argued that they just picked out a post and tried to spun something as a wolf post without actually trying to garner a read. I think if PB flipped wolf I would be pretty interested in flipping it but on another hand he didn't seem like he expected a hammer

My read of the interaction was Marashu looking for a reason to call Amici scum/join the wagon. But then was surprised to see it hammered before he got there

Which, again, I just don't do that if I am partnered with Marashu. Because of the hammer, I could have just walked away and the thread would have locked, and his posts could have gotten overlooked in the chaos of the hammer.

[Wavelength]

I think that the best reason to believe that I actually have the role that I claimed is the way that I questioned Ircher about his miller claim, to see how it interacted with my role. Like, from the moment he claimed, I feel like I was clearly asking questions from the pov of someone who wanted to know if my invest shots were going to work on him or not.

Which if I am scum, just isn't the case. I don't think that it would make sense for me to have invests that I cared about whether the game had a miller or not?

Spoiler:

I'm a universal miller.
VOTE: Alisae

By universal do you mean that you would come up looking bad regardless of the type of invest? So, a tracker always sees you going to the night kill?

I'm a universal miller.
VOTE: Alisae

By universal do you mean that you would come up looking bad regardless of the type of invest? So, a tracker always sees you going to the night kill?

Am thinking on this more, and I do want to know the wording on "universal"

Was it said as "all investigative roles?"

I'm a universal miller.
VOTE: Alisae

By universal do you mean that you would come up looking bad regardless of the type of invest? So, a tracker always sees you going to the night kill?

Yes.

This does not answer the follow up question. Was it "all investigative roles" or was it like, a list of roles that you would show up negatively for?

@Ircher

Gonna be nosy again.

You said you are a "Universal" Miller. We have a flipped Flavor Cop.

How would a Universal Miller interact with a Flavor Cop Invest?

Zzz... Let me ask again: what is the purpose of this question specifically? The flavor cop is dead now. Do you expect there to be a second one? I don't.

But if you must know, I investigate as "mafia-aligned" to cop-type roles and as visiting all players who died to tracking investigatives. So for a flavor cop, I'd presumably investigate as my flavor. Flavor is likely null anyway; I'm sure SirCakez randomized alignments before developing roles.

I am finding it really hard to believe that you are actually thinking critically about my motivations or what those motivations could mean to my alignment.

You claimed "Universal miller" and I questioned how that could would interact with non-traditional investigative role in a role madness game. And wanted you to nail yourself down to a definitive answer so that if a non-traditional investigative role targeted you at some point this game, your answer could not just be: what ever answer helps you in that situation.

Our only flip so far, had not one, but

two

different non-traditional investigative roles, and

you still think

that me still wanting to get you to commit to how you interact with non traditional investigative roles is pointless, and that I should be focusing my time on "more important" things?

I am Apollo Justice from the Ace Attorney games.

First ability functionally made me novice (I had to use this ability night 1 psyching myself up for court lol)

2 shot invest to see if someone has killed or tried to kill so far this game.
2 shot flavor cop.

I used my kill invest on Ircher last night. I kind of figured that with his miller claim specifically saying it worked for trackers, then if he was he was setting himself up to be doing the night kill night 1, but my result was that he has not tried to kill. So part of why I am not sure what to do with him anymore.

Side note, this is why I put Amici to E-1. I saw his flavor cop claim, and did not expect there to be two town flavor cops. I kind of thought I was going to have to claim the flavor cop day 2, but literally no one asked me why I voted amici lol

I used my kill invest on Ircher last night. I kind of figured that with his miller claim specifically saying it worked for trackers, then if he was he was setting himself up to be doing the night kill night 1, but my result was that he has not tried to kill.

but...they're a miller...

Yeah, but once I got him to finally tell me explicitly how it worked, I knew my invest should get a true result on him.

And to be fair, I did get the less suspicious result.

My result means that he did not attempt to carry out the night 1 kill. But after claiming that he was a miller for trackers, it seemed reasonable that he might have been the one to do the kill if he was scum

[Wavelength]

This is me trying desperately to save LLD the day that LLD died.

I feel like you can see me realizing that there is a better path based on LLD's post, and course correcting, and then going in hard to try to steer us in the right direction.

And like, there is no reason for scum me to really care here? And I honestly don't know that I could convincingly fake how frustrated I was getting with Ali in the end of this.

And like, this is the night that the scum killed Ali, so if I were scum who cared about killing PB, I could have just killed him here.

Spoiler:

okay, so

My ability turns off in ELO, defined as "if Town eliminates, town no longer has majority"

I asked Cakez to define majority, it was defined as "town>not town"

I asked Cakez to define town in the case, it was defined as "the role PM in the example PM, Green Role PM = Town, all else=Not Town"

sooooooooo we have no third parties.

because if we had a third party, were we to eliminate town today, town would no longer hold a majority

where as if town eliminated town with 4:2, they DO still hold majority, if only for a night phase moment. (3:2)

so we're either 4:1:1 rn or we're 4:2 rn.

Did stephen say that his blasphemous ability also turns off in ELO?

causes them to be hated the next day - this doesnt work at elo

Yeah, he did!

because if we had a third party, were we to eliminate town today, town would no longer hold a majority

where as if town eliminated town with 4:2, they DO still hold majority, if only for a night phase moment. (3:2)

so we're either 4:1:1 rn or we're 4:2 rn.

Knowing that we are never in 4:2:1 does make me feel a bit better about this day phase, ngl.

And that means that once the Stephen slot is replaced, they can also confirm how the mod is defining Elo for this kind of ability, and confirm that 100%

because if we had a third party, were we to eliminate town today, town would no longer hold a majority

where as if town eliminated town with 4:2, they DO still hold majority, if only for a night phase moment. (3:2)

so we're either 4:1:1 rn or we're 4:2 rn.

Knowing that we are never in 4:2:1 does make me feel a bit better about this day phase, ngl.

And that means that once the Stephen slot is replaced, they can also confirm how the mod is defining Elo for this kind of ability, and confirm that 100%

Actually, thinking on this, I feel like LLD always true claims how the elo thing works since Stephen had already claimed to have an ability that worked that way too.

@Ali, can we kill Pink Ball first?

I am so much more confident that he is Not Town, then I am that LLD is the scum between LLD and Stephen Slot.

And like I said, even if he is SOMEHOW town, then we gain +2 players, and end up back here again with 6 alive. Like, this feels like the safer play

Pedit: what do you mean that they would be back after everything resolves? Didn't you say they come back if you die? That would resolve before any night actions are even submitted, no?

If we can never be in a 3:2:! world, killing Pink Ball is the only correct play here.

Because of the Elo mechanics from LLD and Stephen both working to day, the only possible worlds are 4:2 and 4:1:1

If Ali's solve it right, then we killed scum.
If Pink Ball is town, then we are back to 4:2 tomorrow, with confirmed town Kokichi.

If Pink Ball is 3rd party, then we are at 4:2 tomorrow, with 1 confirmed scum in Kokichi/Penguin Power and 1 confirmed scum in the rest of the Player list.

This is the only kill, that never puts us into a worse position even if we are wrong.

VOTE: pink ball

This is the way.

Ali, I wanted to kill pink ball yesterday, and you talked me out of it.

This is the kill for today.

I was not sure before the confirmation that we are not in 3:2:1, but now I am.

@Ali, please unvote and lets talk where PB does not have hammer potential anymore.

Like, I want to take a walk and stop being heated from that exchange, and then come back.

But I am worried that if I actually make compelling posts in an exchange with you, PB might just hammer for survival. To avoid us turning on him.

So, it is like, I feel like I can't actually even try until then

I keep refreshing hoping for the Ali pop-in.

But it I am going to have to go offline soon :/

WAVE

WAVE I HAVE CHECKMATE
YOU WANNA SEE IT?

That’s sadge I was really hoping to try to talk to a townie before I went to bed

Ali, our different schedules have cursed us this day.

This is now me.

No quickhammer from flea, pb, or you

Sas has his vote in play and is gone

We should probably stick in SAS vs LLD

No quickhammer from flea, pb, or you

Sas has his vote in play and is gone

We should probably stick in SAS vs LLD

Are you not willing to unvote at least long enough to hear me out about my concerns?

I agree that the lack of hammer means that 1 scum is very likely inside of LLD/SAS, but that does not fully address my concern

Like I’d love to kill PB
But that requires waiting for a SAS replacement, convincing that SAS replacement to do it.

That’s literally impossible right now.

Also I think it only makes sense for either her to be the redirector or me. And I claimed vigi…
Like we both have the most convenient claims for the situation.

But like, this is just obv to me?
How does PB if town actually get a TR on LLD so early?
I mean that’s like, you’re TRing one of the strongest wolf players in the game based off of what?

If you are not even going to listen to me, I guess I can just vote LLD because I am powerless if you are not even hearing me out :/

You want to kill pb cause it allows us to be wrong later down the line
I get it

You do not get it.

If I am right about him being third party, we can be setting ourselves to be fucked.

I pathed out the possible outcomes if PB is 3rd party, and LLD is town. It is BAD

Now that we know that we are never in a 3:2:1 world, and only 4:2 or 4:1:1, here is a run down of what happens if we go ignore the possible SK.

If we ARE at 4:1:1 right now, and we kill town!LLD, here are some possible worlds:

1 death, 1 disappearance (both town)

---1:1:1 -- it is now

impossible

for us to win. We would just be king makers between the two anti-town factions.

1 Disappearance, but no flips

We have no idea what is happening

. Did they double up? Did the SK eat the scum? Who knows? Not us.
It could be 1:1:2 (which is again, unwinnable, we are just king makers) or
it could be 1:3, but the 1 has upto 2 scum inside which also feels hard.
And we don't even know what world we are in.

The only good outcome for the town is if the scum team kill the SK.

But what if they don't? If they shoot else where, the town basically always loses. IF PB really does spit people back out if he dies, then why would they even bother? They can risk getting eaten, and then come back with his elim down the line anyways.

This is the world that I am worried about. If we get it wrong between Stephen and LLD, and PB is 3rd party, we are fucked.

If we are in 4:2, then killing PB first is NOT BAD, because we get to see his flip to help find the scum. Either way. Either we confirm him group scum, and we are expressly looking for a PB partner.

OR

We confirm him not group scum, and we get to reset and come back to MELO with more information.

Frankly, (especially after the last page or so!), I am prepared to bet the game on PB being Not Town, of one variety or the other.

You seem to think that the only world where PB is town, I am scum. If I am wrong, then I will take the miselim tomorrow and this loss will be on me.

You talked me out of pushing for the third party kill yesterday, but I want it today.

I had kind of accepted that if he was 3rd party, we were largely going to be at the whim of the anti-town night actions when 3:2:! was possible, but we can potentially lock that out now that we know we are never at 3:2:1

If PB is 3rd party, which is my best guess at how this game makes sense, then this is the wrong game plan. We are setting ourselves up to lose.

If you are right, and I am wrong, THEN WE WIN WITH EITHER PATH.

But if I am right, and you are wrong, then your path could be throwing the game.

The path that I am saying we take wins if I am right. It wins if Ali is right. It wins if Pink Ball is right.

And if we are all fucking wrong somehow, then we were losing anyways

Well, I wanted the unvote, because I thought that if I was able to start to sway you, then PB might hammer. And I did not want him to have that option anymore once you started considering what I had to say.

If pb was going to hammer he would have done it already, no?

What scum team do we lose to by doing my path?

It is the safest path, and it is feeling really shitty that no one actually seems to care about my concern for the way this could lose. (Not PB, he has to argue against it if I am right, so :shrug I guess)

Ali you have yet to give me a single scenario where your path wins, but mine loses.

And you refusing to consider my path WHEN IT WINS IF YOU ARE RIGHT TOO.

Is incredibly frustrating.

Like, you unilaterally have decided what we are doing today, and are not treating this like the team game it is supposed to be.

Ali you have yet to give me a single scenario where your path wins, but mine loses.

Like in all worlds you have presented, it wins on the exact same DAY PHASE. We do not even delay the win.

If it is LLD+PB, then we win tomorrow with an LLD kill. If it is me+LLD, then your plan was already kill LLD->PB->Me. So switching to PB->LLD-ME wins in exactly the same amount of time for both teams you have said are possible.

But if you are WRONG, and I am RIGHT, you are throwing this game for no reason other then you deciding that we are doing it in your order just because.

Ali you have yet to give me a single scenario where your path wins, but mine loses.

And you refusing to consider my path WHEN IT WINS IF YOU ARE RIGHT TOO.

Is incredibly frustrating.

Like, you unilaterally have decided what we are doing today, and are not treating this like the team game it is supposed to be.

Ur path is better, I’m not the person who you should be convincing here unless you really just want me to unvote.

You’re frustrated but I don’t entirely get how you think it could still be something like Sas + pp where I feel like I’ve explained where I’m coming from from d1 to now.

Ur path is better, I’m not the person who you should be convincing here unless you really just want me to unvote.

I need your vote, so yes. I need you to convince you, and I need you to unvote.

And then I can talk to Flea.

I am genearlly assuming that I have LLD's vote by default, when the alternative is her own elim.

You are the one who gets to decide which path we are doing here.

Pink Ball cannot lol!hammer in that world. He is outed.

You know what Wave?
VOTE: LLD
There, you got it. I said I was going to wait for you to say your thing, but 'your thing' is bullshit, Ali thinks it's bullshit too so clearly thinking it's bullshit is not scumdriven, it's just you being scum needing to get rid of a potential 3p that has no sense of being a 3p from a town perspective, you're just scared of me.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

ALI THIS IS WHY I FUCKING ASKED YOU TO UNVOTE

I didnt want you to accept responsibility, I wanted you to be willing to be a team player.

because someone you think is town is begging you not to ignore them

And I wanted to be a teamplayer but you kept calling me 3p

IF I AM WRONG, AND YOU ARE TOWN, THEN YOUR SOLVE OF ME + LLD WOULD HAVE STILL BEEN KILLED.

LIKE JESUS CHRIST

I am logging off, fucking hell

[Wavelength]

I feel like those are probably the three clearest places to read in this game to see that I am town here?

[Wavelength]

And that is probably the best I can do to help you with out you taking the lead asking quesitons

[Wavelength]

Yeah but then Kokichi would also be alive.

Or if you are ADVANCED player, just lie you used it before AND THEN use.

Ouch

[Wavelength]

Kind of wish you had given me time to respond, but I am also just kind of glad this game is over

[Wavelength]

Wave never got legit results of Flavor. Every time he checked someone, it was either already claimed (me) or CLAIM OR DIE.

This is not true, my flavor cop was proven true.

I said Pinkball's exact flavor name

[Wavelength]

Ah whatever I already said my flavor is funny so I got your expectations up and it won't be funny now.

I'm this kid:


My action is called endless dream

Never the name, but after I checked him, I said this

Pinkball is "The Dream Kid"

And it was right

[Wavelength]

I also did get the mask. I did not claim it in mass claim, because I was letting flea claim first.

[Wavelength]

But I got it because I redirected it to myself, so good job regardless lmao

[Wavelength]

I really was a flavor cop though. Just a scum one.

[Wavelength]

I would vote you anyway, because my point about Flea giving mask to dying player remained unchallenged.

I mean, I did not make as much of an arguement since we already had the hammer lol.

The possibilities for the mask were:

I stole the mask myself, and then claimed it for some reason
Flea gave the mast to me, and then claimed it was redirected for some reason.

I have been sitting on my argument for why Flea would have done that this whole day phase, just waiting for you to ask about the mask

[Wavelength]

Everyone needs to full claim,.including flavour.
There is a redirector.

Flea used me getting the mask to demand a full claim from everyone, and is also the person that got us on a wild goose chase hunting down a redirector.

I was ready, you just hammered immediately.

[Wavelength]

I knew that Pinkball was not a survivor because my flavor cop was a flavor cop + role cop, so the mod told me the answer on night 3.

But no one wanted to hear the truth from me lmao

[Wavelength]

Town refusing to kill Pinkball was so WILD this game.

Like, he was obviously third party from the moment of mass claim day 3.

He should have died day 3, day 4, day 5, day 6

But that mother fucker lived all the way to day 7 for some reason, and EVEN THEN IT TOOK A MOD POST FOR THE TOWN TO KILL HIM.

Like omg

[Wavelength]

that mother fucker

This was said in jest.

I thoroughly enjoyed Pinkball this game.

[Wavelength]

And do feel like the way the mod post happened about my win con, really screwed him over

[Wavelength]

No, you were right about the win cons

But that was no excuse for him not dying day 3 and 4. Town decided to ignore him and hunt for scum instead (for some reason) and killed town both days

[Wavelength]

I got confused by wincon. Idk.

Once you went and quoted Control, I messaged the mod.

Because, I was like.... Enchant is right, and the mod messed it up... in the exact same way twice.

But I don't know how I am supposed to argue that the mod messed up the design.

So I told him I needed him to either tell me that I can joint win with Pinkball, or correct the flipped win cons.

I was really hoping he would just tell me that I could win with pinkball, and we could go for a joint win .

[Wavelength]

Wave surprised me with their scum game tbh

[Wavelength]

that mother fucker

This was said in jest.

I thoroughly enjoyed Pinkball this game.

Please read my PT if you have the chance, I hated/loved you this game and a lot of what happened from D3 onwards between us

was just me being performative

, but I really enjoyed going against you

Oh, I could tell.

Especially towards the end, it felt like you were not even attempting to keep your arguments consistent, and I was like "I wish I could do that, but I actually have to pretend to be town here, and he stopped having to do that DAYS AGO"

I was jealous lmao

[Wavelength]

Just so you know, I was not actually ever upset with you for not listening to me . I just shouted to sell that I was a genuinely upset townie.

I was down for LLD to be miselimed that day. (although, I firmly believed that I was making the argument for what town REALLY SHOULD BE DOING lol)

There is even a post in my PT where I went from ALL CAPS SHOUTING AT YOU IN THE MAIN THREAD, to "you know, this does not even really mean anything different for me" in the PT lol

[Wavelength]

I’m not used to playing with sks tbh

Last post was in response to this

[Wavelength]

please elim the claimed serial killer next time haha

I tried SO HARD to drag the town to the right decision on this one

[Wavelength]

@Pinkball

There was a moment where I considered giving you the win. When Enchant said this:

But if you think that there is even a 1% chance that I am town

hahahaha

no

I was like... oh.

Even if I win the Pinkball 1v1, I probably lose the flea 1v1 tomorrow.

And I would rather Pinkball win then the town this game lmao.

[Wavelength]

But could not play against win con, yada yada

Then I considered trying going for the joint win, but when I double checked if I could, cakez shot me down

[Wavelength]

I think that I made a few missteps this game, and claiming to get the bunny mask was one of them.

I was thinking that making there need to be scum out there who could redirect AND rolestop would be too much for me to ALSO have flavor cop, and I could prove the flavor cop. And people would not believe that I had all three abilities, and therefore, could not be the final scum.

But then people just dropped the idea of there being a rolestop at all, and instead decided that a redirector explained both.

[Wavelength]

But turns out I just had a super stacked role.

I am a roles stop AND redirector AND COMBINED flavor cop+role cop

But I did not think that people would believe that to be a real role in this game.

[Wavelength]

And all three abilities were 2 shot.

I wanted to prove BOTH of my flavor shots, but it did not work out that way

[Wavelength]

that mother fucker

This was said in jest.

I thoroughly enjoyed Pinkball this game.

Please read my PT if you have the chance, I hated/loved you this game and a lot of what happened from D3 onwards between us

was just me being performative

, but I really enjoyed going against you

Oh, I could tell.

Especially towards the end, it felt like you were not even attempting to keep your arguments consistent, and I was like "I wish I could do that, but I actually have to pretend to be town here, and he stopped having to do that DAYS AGO"

I was jealous lmao

When we were four left, it didn’t matter if Flea or you were the remaining scum, I needed an elimination no matter who, so yeah I started pushing you without even believing you were scum.

What I didn’t realize is that when we were three, I could vote Enchant and go to the next night arguing for the joint win, but that’s when we all realized that the scum’s wincon was wrong

If I had shot enchant that night, we would have joint won this game, because we did both reach our wincons and cakez had not fixed it yet.

If only.

I would have loved to win this game with you

[Wavelength]

I think that I made a few missteps this game

I think my biggest mistake was claiming both my abilities were 2 shot.

If inhad claimed them both as 1 shot, my night actions look pretty good. Detective on ircher and flavor cop on pinkball.

But then I had so many more shot to figure out,and explain why I was not being killed /redirected

[Wavelength]

In order to keep my fake claim straight, I made a fake role pm and everything, I felt really happy with it

Welcome to Anything uPick Wavelength

You are Apollo Justice

Abilities

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to eliminate.
-

Chords of Steel

- You must warm up your vocal cords and get ready for court by shouting "I'M FINE." You must use Chords of Steel once before you can use any other ability
-

Cross-Examination - Objection!

- Cross examine a witness; spot enough contradictions and you might just uncover a killer. Twice at night, you may visit another player and learn learn if they have killed, or attempted to kill, any other player this game. You will get a positive result even if their submitted action failed.
-

Court Record - Characters

- The Court Record keeps a detailed summary of all major characters in a case, and you can use it to try to learn more about your target. Twice at night, you may visit another player and learn their flavor

You win once all threats to the

Town

have been eliminated.
The game thread is here: viewtopic.php?t=90521

[Wavelength]

I agree that the 1-shot in both Amici and Ali's roles could have been worded more clearly.

Like, the term "1-shot" is a standardized term that would eliminate all question.

It is also odd that the phrasing for x-shot was not even consistent across role pms:

Twice at night, you may

you can only use this three times

[Wavelength]

Apologies to anyone who was upset by my play in this game - I am truly sorry this happened.

fwiw, I think you were fine in game and I think currently you mean what you say and were deeply affected by what happened here.

+1

[Wavelength]

I am very interested in the dream PT

[Wavelength]

Turns out I just missed that it had been released. Gonna read now lol

[Wavelength]

I am thoroughly enjoying this, especially when we got to the point where PinkBall has seen Penguin's role pm, and is pretending that he hasn't AND Pengiun has seen PinkBall's Role Pm, and is pretending that he hasn't lmao.

But, Kokichi claiming that he was a SK in the game that LLD asked him about as a code to tell LLD that Pinkball was a Serial killer was GENIUS, and it is criminal that no one noticed.

[Wavelength]

I had town and 3p rooting for me!
Subject: Mini 2292: Anything uPick - The Dream Dimension

I mean if Wave is a wolf for all I am concerned he can win the game

Subject: Mini 2292: Anything uPick - The Dream Dimension

I agree

Subject: Mini 2292: Anything uPick - The Dream Dimension

Im genuinely thinking Wavey is the last scum

PB YOU CAN'T LET FAE GET AWAY WITH IT

[Wavelength]

Subject: Mini 2292: Anything uPick - The Dream Dimension

Like just be like
"LOOK MISTER, YOU'RE GONNA WIN THIS GAME WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT"

But it wouldn't work!!!

If we voted out Flea, then the next night pinkball eats me AND I LOSE.

[Wavelength]

Subject: Mini 2292: Anything uPick - The Dream Dimension

Are you fucking kidding me!!!!

I put a LOT of thought into that first holster lmao

I think it was a mistake to holster a second time tho, tbh

[Wavelength]

Nah just vote out Flea.

Then shot Pink Ball when he eats you.

Baam. You eaten and free instantly.

I am pretty sure that he stops my kill from happening.

He targets me -> I "leave the game" -> my kill fails because I am out of the game

[Wavelength]

That was a really nice read.

Love that I convinced everyone who lost the ability to vote that I was town, but not the people who voted me out