Open 875 - The Kindgom of Zeal: The Queens Chosen - GAME OVER

[Lady Lambdadelta]

fen you need to give this some real thought. the other undecided slot is very likely furtive's partner so this day is probably in your paws

Sorry... You know the vote count?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

unvote

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ahhhhhhhh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Does towm ceph really say that to Fen.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wait really

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah I had the same thought

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Furtive

[Lady Lambdadelta]

this is like temple game where cephrir didn't like my gut read of him and he acted just like this i think town!ceph would have fought more for me

Its demoralizing to be town and be the target of a fake cop. I qm chalking some of it up to that.

But the knowing the vote count thing wqs very strange.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

he was fighting this up until i voted him

Sure, but I think thwt is because he has internalized "if STD votes me I die" which... Honestly feels town

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can someone explain to me what "bussing" someone actually means? I couldn't figure it out yet.

Bussing is shorthand for "throw someone under the bus" normally referring to someone sacrificing someone else for their benefit.

In mafia terms it is when wcum pushes for ane achieves the elimination of a fellow scum to make themselves look better.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ah so here comes the scum anti spew

Glad I was right lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If I die tonight dont let Ranger or Cephrir live to ELO

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Or STD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

RR is town.

Ethel can be scum.

Kawaii can be scum only if Ranger is town though. If Ranger scum kawaii town.

STD scum.

Ceph dies before lylo.

Enchant prolly town.

Uhh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Gimli can be town.

Umlat is an unknow but can be town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No clue if we have a N2 doctor but I'll trust in their wisdom.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

RR is town.

Ethel can be scum.

Kawaii can be scum only if Ranger is town though. If Ranger scum kawaii town.

STD scum.

Ceph dies before lylo.

Enchant prolly town.

Uhh

Why is RR town? They should have known better than to vote me.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not perfect

RR dude.

Furtive is claimed scum. They are trolling post hammer.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wait is dude okay for you RR? I knkw you use they them so i dont wanna do a bad lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD hardcarried town and saved furtive from being nightkilled.

Alright fuck you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Umlat

[Lady Lambdadelta]

want to at least hear from rr first before i do anything

yeah, RR has a result, right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I protected Ranger last night.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

we should massclaim remaining roles, probably.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

why did you suggest massclaiming lld

Well, because realistically there are only a few people who haven't claimed an action/night and if scum are really worried about night kills, they'd shoot within those people given a lack of self protection. We'd need 2 N5 doctors.

And given we're in ELO it's interesting to see if the people who have not claimed have to claim prior actions or claim to be for a future night.

The question for me would be if we DID get 2 N5 doctor claims, it would be interesting to possible no eliminate and see what happens.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll give full disclosure now in advance:
I'm incredibly biased towards believing RR is scum.

Barring a smoking gun producing strong doubts, I likely vote them.

I'm aware of my biases. Being cognizant of them, I will try not to tunnel.
I will do my best to analyze the information available critically and objectively.

However, I do truly believe there’s quite strong evidence suggesting Radical Rat is likely scum. The bias I have is from evidence I believe is fairly strong.

I'll try to maximize transparency of thought tomorrow.

In the meanwhile, an opening prod for LLD:

Lady Lambdadelta:

You've given precious little in terms of reads this game outside of the one now irrefutably incorrect (Ranger scum).

You've given stances: furtiveglance elimination > Cephrir.
You've given mechanics.

I can honestly say I can only remember one read of yours outside your Ranger scumread and my memory says it was only once, then quickly dropped.

A great deal of my doubts on your alignment revolve around your lack of reads.

Care to change my perspective?

no not really

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like

you'll either scumread me or townread me and i don't much care which.

you're confirmed town in an ELO situation, no wagon should occur without you on it by definition

so i'm more or less waiting for you to decide what you want to do

nothing i say today will convince you of anything because it can all be situationally performative

the only important choice would be "as scum does she fake N4 doctor here" which you have stated you believe I would do, so eh.

given I know we're both town, there's 2 in remaining 4, it's up to you.

Also, your mechanics logic about where to eliminate vis a vis pair of 2 group of 3 is very wrong but i'm not going to be able to convince you of anything today so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

do your business, pick our fate, if you pick correctly you may or may not die tonight based on possible N5 doctors

which frankly, is why we should mass claim.

if we have a N5 doctor for real, finding scum outside that doctor means you live to a second ELO as confirmed town.

but honestly IDGAF

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but the risk of forcing yourself into a possible 1 in 3 (maybe 0 in 3 but IDK if Kawaii/STD can exist as a pair) is not worth going for a 1/2 confirmed from your PoV even with the N5 doctor. If there are claims, maybe it is.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll see if I feel more hospitable later, but rn I'm still tilted.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well I feel a lot better about LLD being scum now at least.

yeah this is definitely scum me, you got me bruv

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm definitely not tilted from taking abuse all game to the point where I just don't give a fuck what the outcome is.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it's fortunately not in my hands right now, Ranger gets to decide.

Where ranger votes, I vote.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Look, I don't know you beyond a passing familiarity from other threads. I don't have a way to gauge what is and isn't "scum you" or "town you" specifically.

However, in a general sense, what you're doing right now looks a lot like rolefishing with the massclaim thing, and refusal to give reads to just sheep Ranger blindly is attempting to absolve yourself of responsibility if things go wrong. And those are things I believe are more likely to come from scum.

I get that people have been treating you poorly a lot this game, but me scumreading you for refusing to give reads and fishing for claims unnecessarily is just that.

you're just mechanically wrong

if there's one scum in the 2 unclaimed roles, who do scum shoot tonight? Every time?

They shoot the DOCTOR.

So the ONLY WORLD in which there is any value in staying hidden is if both STD and Kawaii are town.

And if they're both town, 2/3 of you me and Gimli are scum, and even if we hit scum today they're going to shoot in the doctors.

So from my PoV, either You+Gimli is the team, at which point it won't MATTER if they claim or not, or one of them is scum and the other one gets shot tonight and we NEVER EARN AN EXTRA KILL EVER ANYWAY.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

there is NO EXTRA KILL WITHOUT BOTH STD AND KAWAII BEING TOWN.

So either you're committing to that world, in which case vote Gimli and prove it.

Or you're agreeing that there's a 0% chance we get another kill and scum can ALWAYS execute a kill tonight

and knowing the claims is superior.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

so come on then.

the only world in which Massclaiming is bad involves from your PoV me and gimli being scum

and from my PoV you and Gimli being scum.

So if you're committed to that world, the answer is simple no? Let's just kill Gimli.

But if you're hesitating to do that. If you're worried "what if Gimli is town?" then who else am I scum with bruv?

If I'm scum with you, lmfao.

if I'm scum with Kawaii or STD, I DON'T NEED TO ROLEFISH.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

because if I'm scum with STD or Kawaii, I know which one is the only unclaimed role and I can shoot it tonight for a win 100% of the time.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

so that settles the massclaim role fishing thing.

Now let's talk about putting the responsibility on Ranger.

Nothing I say today will be more than WIFOM. Even this.

I could say all of this as scum. There's no VALUE to it. So what do I earn by being performative and arguing for myself besides possible paranoia.

As a townie, all townies should be voting where Ranger is voting today. No townie should be splitting off to do their own thing when we have a confirmed townie.

so if Ranger comes to me like "you're my only townread and I'm confuseed on what to do" my answer will be "I'm tilted and not in a much better spot myself but if you tell me where you are leaning I can play devil's advocate".

But Ranger's not doing that, Ranger's being paranoid and trying to bait me into caring about this game by holding a stick above me like "I might be worried about you".

If she wants to bonk me, she's welcome to do it. Nothing I say today will change that fact nor should it. Ranger has access to prior days, she can make her informed decision about me.

If she wants my views in a review sense to decide who she wants to kill I'll help my confirmed town player as much as she needs, within limits of my tilt.

But when it comes to reading me nothing I say matters so I'm really not invested in putting effort there.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We know that unless Kawaii/StD are both scum, one is a Doctor, yes.

What we don't know, and what scum doesn't know, is whether they've already used their shot, or if it's used tonight, or tomorrow night.

If we force a claim, and one of them is Town and says anything other than N5 Doctor, scum now know it's safe to shoot Ranger tonight.

If they DON'T claim, scum is forced to consider the possibility of Ranger being healed and choose between making a sub-optimal kill or risk us breaking out of ELo.

I would rather scum have to make that choice.

right except it doesn't matter if Ranger lives either. She could give us an If/then statement today

"kill LLD, if we're still in the game, kill Gimli"

and we should follow that. Even if she dies.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but again, I don't really much care.

My vote is where Ranger puts it and the outcome of this day will be as Ranger wants it to be.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No.

Ranger is IC right now, yes. That does not mean she is infallible.

We should vote correctly today, whether Ranger agrees or doesn't. Her being confirmed makes her an incredibly valuable touchstone as a known good-faith source, and lowers the pool of elimination candidates increasing our odds of getting it right... but she is NOT an absolute authority that must be sheeped at all costs.

And as Town, you really shouldn't be advocating we follow her to your own death if she suggests it, seeing as we're in ELo and all...

Town needs to vote united in ELO and MELO.

That means Confirmed townies have precedence and control.

You're welcome to influence the confirmed townie's viewpoint but

Attempts at subverting their control (which this is, ftr) are anti-town. Only scum should want town to vote in a divided fashion.

Whatever Ranger votes, I will vote. If she seeks my council, I'll give it. If she wants to vote me, there's not much to do be done about it.

Any other stance is STRICTLY WRONG.

Influence and sway and say all you want but at the end of the day when Ranger votes, if you are town, you vote along side her.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That is the LITERAL rule.

Going against a confirmed townie's vote plan in ELO or MELO as a townie is game throwing. Because you know they are town and by voting somewhre else you are giving scum a crack in.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This isn't a judgement of your play, ftr. When I say gamethrowing I mean, mechanically speaking, townies who know someone else is town need to end on the same wagon at the end of the day with them in ELO without fail.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

the end point, the simple statement is this

if you're town in ELO/MELO and there is a confirmed townie present, unless it's 3P and you know who scum is 100% as a result it is STRICTLY WRONG to place a vote before the confirmed townie does and strictly game throwing to not vote with them.

So please do take the time to convince Ranger of anything you feel you need to.

But in the end, today, all townies vote united under Ranger's banner. That's it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah, I'm not going to vote a townread and lose the game just because an IC says so. And I DEFINITELY won't be voting for myself.

It's true we need to vote unanimously to eliminate scum, but to that end we should be attempting to reach a conclusion Together, not swearing fealty to Ranger.

If Ranger makes a vote that I think is more likely scum than not? Yeah, I'll vote with her.

If she votes me, I'll do everything I can to change her mind.

If she votes Gimli or StD, I'll hear her arguments, and evaluate them against my own views, and either change my mind or attempt to change hers.

I will Not just roll over and let one player dictate the game.

You're welcome to make arguments, and obviously you won't vote yourself.

But if you're genuinely arguing, as town, that you won't follow the confirmed town's vote, you need to really reconsider.

Because the only alignment that makes this argument is scum. Town should understand why this is wrong.

No one is saying you don't reach a conclusion together but the person who makes that final call is Ranger.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

do you think i envy having to have Ranger be in control of this?

do you think i'm arguing this for my own fucking health?

there's a right way to play this and wrong way to play this as town.

and while certainly you don't have to follow me down the road of "idgaf", if you're town you DO have to vote united and you DO have to follow me down the road of "Ranger's vote is what we follow".

So if you're town here RR, my advice to you is to convince ranger of it. I don't need to know, I don't need to find you.

Ranger has to find you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Solve is LLD/Kawaii, I'm like 90% sure of it at this point.

The only other maybe possible solve is StD/Kawaii but I really don't think they're scum together here, and LLD has been pushing what to my eyes looks like very scum motivated ideas here.

Ranger brought up the point that if we eliminate in StD/Kawaii we risk hitting an N5 Doc that could save us from ELo, and I do agree with that coming from the perspective of someone with me in the potential scum pool, so I'll abide by it.

And I'm rather tired of waiting around doing nothing so.

VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

Let's get moving. One way or another.

This is a straight up scumclaim, FYI.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Saying "I think it's LLD/Kawaii"

"the only other possible solve is STD/Kawaii"

And then voting me instead of

The person who is in both of those worlds

Is a straight up scumclaim

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like You think it's only 1 of two worlds and you're purportedly voting the 90% certainty option over the 100% certainty option from your PoV.

How do you rationalize that as a townie?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i mean i get it but RR explained why they're voting you as opposed to kawaii

It's not a reason to vote a 90% option over a 100% option in ELO.

"We might have a N5 cop" is not a reason to vote against your supposed best interest as town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like no townie goes

"Okay it's either LLD/Kawaii or STD/Kawaii, let's vote LLD"

Townies look at that and go "oh I have a common denominator" and vote that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Doc same thing

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And also no you don't.

You were scum in a newbie game where this same math was applied by townies.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

STD why are you defending terrible logic?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD: "Town need to work together, and follow whatever Ranger says!"

Me: "I have two really confident scumreads, I'll pick the one that should be optimal from the rest of the Town's perspective, following Ranger's argument."

LLD: "No that's scumclaiming!"

Ah yes the strawman argument.

The classic sign of a townie arguing in good Faith

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i see what you're trying to say but it doesn't mean that RR is scum when they've explained exactly why they're voting you

And so do you think I'm scum instead?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like you are dancing a jig around all of this and not saying quiet parts outloud STD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay, so we have two obstensibly town players saying they think Kawaii is wcum and instead of supporting onto that or STD trying to convince RR to do Kawaii

STD is defending RR as town and RR is doing 90 over 100 from their PoV.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

STD so long as RR votes me you don't get to do Kawaii today so

Who are you voting between RR and I?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i think kawaii is scum

So you think Kawaii is scum.

I respond to RR with "You're 100% sure on Kawaii and 90 percent sure on me, so why are you not voting Kawaii?"

And in your townie mind with Kawaii as your TOP SCUM READ

you DEFEND RR FROM THAT AND NEGATE IT AS A THING INSTEAD OF USING IT TO TRY AND ACHIEVE THE ELIMINATION YOU WANT TODAY?

Am I understanding this correctly?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i dunno yet what i want to do

No I bet you don't. You realllly don't want to be tied down to a stance right now, do you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i just think if RR goes "I don't want to hit a potential N5 doc so i'm not going to vote into that" it makes logical sense

doesn't make them scum
doesn't make them town

it does not make logical sense to vote someone you are 90% sure of over someone you are 100% sure of by their OWN WORDS.

I'm not doing any party tricks here. There's no hidden act.

It's literally THEIR. OWN. WORDS. STD.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you're putting too much emphasis on one part and ignoring the other part

we're talking in circles, i'm not interested in continuing

No I bet you aren't. You want this shut down now before it spirals out of your control.

Well, I'm not in control here. Ranger can look at this and see if she agrees with me and sees what I see.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I literally don't need to say anything else.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

not really but okay

Go do your catchup. You said you didn't want to continue this, so ignore me. Or is having the last word and looking like you won in this that much important to you?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As much as I'm questioning RR's stance on all of this, and as much as I probably can't win if RR is town (which if RR is town, he's playing legitimately badly here and I will enjoy pointing this out in endgame).

STD, your take on all of this is WAY more suspicious than RR's is.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You won't take a stance.
You won't agree with what is effectively a prima facie scummy thing for someone to do.

You won't even use that thing to try and convince that player to do what YOU want to do and vote your top scum read.

What ARE you doing then? Besides defending RR?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

how can i be more scummy than a "literal scumclaim"

Because I trust your competency and I don't trust RR's.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And I think you know this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

RR's thing is a literal scumclaim but town have claimed scum in ELO before because they don't seem to understand due process increasing EV for win percent.

YOU on the other hand SHOULD understand that concept and you're here dancing in circles.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like don't get me wrong I'm currently looking at an RR/STD world wondering if it fits

Don't get it twisted.

I'm not NOT scumreading RR.

But I'm also looking at this interaction as seperate instances and you look worse than RR here because your takes are flaccid and your actions make no sense with your stated intents.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i get what you're trying to say and in normal conditions i'd agree with you but these aren't normal conditions so i don't and i don't know what's unclear about that

Your assertion that somehow a N5 doctor changes anything about this from normal conditions is ludicrous.

What part of WE AREN'T GETTING A FREE MISELIM do you not understand.

STD, if Kawaii is scum to you, even if you're doctor, You die tonight from your PoV.

And we are in ELO. There is NOTHING more important than CATCHING SCUM TODAY.

No future value matters more than voting your top #1 scumread which RR has FAILED TO DO.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

not really. why would i vote anyone without catching up? you're the one attributing to me this desire to kill my one scumread in bad faith

No, I'm not asking you to vote.

I'm saying that if you thought Kawaii is scum and RR is town which is your stated arguments

You should have been convincing RR to unvote or vote Kawaii if you really believed those statements.

I even asked you "oh so you scumread me right?"

And you don't, currently. Not from when you were asked.

So it's not as if this is the outcome you CURRENTLY WANT.

And if you ARE still catching up, you'd want RR not to decide things on his own if you think he's town.

BUT YOU DIDN'T.

I'm not arguing in bad faith. I'm arguing against your STATED POSITONS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm not sure if we should kill kawaii today because if they're a doc we have a chance to protect someone from the kill

so i want to take a closer look at you and rr today for a moment when i'm not dodging bullets from you

This is such theatre from you. "dodging bullets"?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

stated position: kawaii is scum
bad faith argument: YOU"RE NOT CONVICING RR TO VOTE KAWAII

yeah, or not vote me mr. "I'm catching up".

But again, look at the SECOND STRAWMAN ARGUMENT IN FUCKING 20 MINUTES.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You believe Kawaii is scum and when pressed on whether I am scum or not you went "I don't know" and followed it with "Kawaii is scum, that is all"

that's a PRETTY FUCKING FINAL TAKE for you to be WALKING BACK in a STRAWMAN ARGUMENT now.

I get it. You think if you AND Kawaii are both town AND if you're both doctors for night 5 there's a CHANCE that you save a kill and town continues.

But if ANY of those fail. Scum out guess, one of you is scum or one of you isn't a doctor it's fucking OVER.

So we should be focusing on killing scum and not some corner case nonsense in ELO.

This would be a fine argument in NOT ELO.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

this really feels like you're trying to control the game state, not trying to sort

Oh, yeah?

The person who hasn't even voted RR back is trying to control the game state?

The person to whom has PROMISED HER VOTE TO RANGER

I am fucking sorting you right now based on competence and your play, and I just got voted.

So this stance of "oh you're trying to control the gamestate" is such bullshit. Yeah, I'm woke up and pushing my own thoughts to counter scum thoughts. That's what townies do. Painting it as "control the game state not sort" when I'm literally questioning YOUR scummy behaviour instead of just PUSHING RR MINDLESSLY is fuckign LUDICROUS.

If I'm scum and RR is town this is the WORST thing I could be doing. It only alienates you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But again, you're competent enough to KNOW that.

And you SAID THIS ANYWAY.

So were you just ignoring all of this or?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, I love that you said you didn't want to talk about it anymore and I said "okay, you do your catchup and ignore me, or is having the last word that important to you?"

And now we've gone back and forth since then and it seem, yes indeed, having the last word IS that important to you.

You want to wait for Ranger, wait for Ranger! You want to have this argument, have this argument.

But don't try to look like you're above it and then also go for the last word. It makes you look like you're trying to manipulate people's perceptions.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

im just posting because i want the last word

yeah no shit

duh

You know town you would have gone back and looked for my alignment in prior posts

or actually engaged with my arguments here.

You've done NEITHER.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

wtf since when does that actually emoji

since the forum update

all :text: emojis work now

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And if I had voted for Kawaii, against Ranger's recommendation of avoiding the potential Doctors, you'd be saying going against Ranger's wishes is a scumclaim, as you already did earlier.

From my perspective, Kawaii's 99.9% scum, yes. But looking at it from a perspective beyond my own, which is necessary for getting Town to vote with me, the risk of hitting a Doctor is very real, because my existence as a potential partner wrinkles things further for everyone but me.

So voting for you, who has no such concerns, and is nearly equal in the strength of the read, is totally fine to me.

Then why not take my advice and ARGUE THAT TO RANGER.

"Hey, Ranger, I think Kawaii is 99.9% scum here, here's why, I want to vote there today"

If you're town you need Ranger's vote anyway. You think THIS is going to convince Ranger?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

To me it looks a LOT more ilke scum trying to get ahead of Ranger's decision, because if Ranger votes a scum there's no defense.

That's concerning.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

im much more interested in making emojis than continuing this conversation where you try to torpedo me

Torpedo you, again, so fucking theatric.

I am asking you simple fucking questions, attacking your ARGUMENTS and instead of giving me answers that make any sense you strawman me and say you're "dodging bullets" and "being torpedo'd".

Why? Like, what does this do.

Assume you and I are both town here. Do you think this makes you look town to me?

It's almost as if you don't think I'm town OR you don't care if I can find you as town.

But the first one was RULED OUT BY ME ASKING YOU POINT BLANK.

So why are you not engaging with it as opposed to what you're doing now which is runnign away?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Either way, thanks for the wake up call.

I was fully 100% checked out of this fucking game. And now I care again.

That's really helpful.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i was borne for the theatre

ahaha

There are two wolves inside you. One wants to eat. The other wants to sing showtunes.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i was borne for the theatre

ahaha

There are two wolves inside you. One wants to eat. The other wants to sing showtunes.

ahhahaha <3

I love you so much right now

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It would be one thing if I were more split between LLD/Kawaii and StD/Kawaii, but when I overwhelmingly favor one over the other... it just isn't the gotcha you think it is

it's not a gotcha, it was your own words not making any sense.

They still don't make sense from your own PoV and it's notable you took this long to answer to it instead of strawmanning me.

But at least your current version isn't literally contradictory.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm still not advocating for doing whatever you say. I'm recognizing that it is true I need to convince you if we're going to eliminate scum, so picking the scumread that's more likely for us to agree on is just... the best way to get something actually done?

If you were pushing Gimli or something, I'd be fighting you on it. But LLD is a very strong scumread, and you've already expressed a preference for her over either Kawaii/StD, so what should I do here? Just park on Kawaii because LLD isn't the absolute most ideal vote, and force us into a no lim?

Will you vote STD then?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like lets say Ranger comes in and says. "I want to do STD today and votes there."

Are you going to vote against Ranger and force a no elim or worse let scum win?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is what I really want to know because I have an ego the size of the sun and I am checking my ego in favour of correct play.

So its hard for me to see anyone as town who wouldn't check their ego and do the correct town play

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh.

Is it RR Gimli

Or is there a townie scumsiding

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like at this point RR and Gimli are both wacko..

Gimli just said flip me tomorrow while voting Kawaii

So why isnt Gimli voting me

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can we agree that RR and Gimli are not both town at this point?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like what the fuck is this clowfuckery

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm so fucking confused.

It's either RR/Gimli or at least one townie has gone fucking clown mode

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't know, because they don't have to?

RR is already voting me STD doesn't wanna do it Ranger doesn't wanna vote there.

What pressure is wcum Kawaii under

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Gimli you like logic right?

Want to do a logic puzzle with me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

RR has been making a lot of sense to me and I have a hard time admitting that he'd do the cop gambit as scum when his partner is kawa

Kawa and RR are not aligned. That much I agree.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Gimli you like logic right?

Want to do a logic puzzle with me?

logic is not my forte

Okay I'll make it real easy.

How many votes are required to eliminate today?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ah yeah we follow ranger i get that

Oh okay. Bet.

You get the logic of "if a townie votes on their own and scum don't bus we can't etc etc"

Awesome.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was literally gonna walk it step by step.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ahhh

Maybe?

I am annoyed no one is listening to what feels like simple logic.

So consider the baby steps logic path half condescention born from frustration and half a literal actual check in since you asked me to read you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because the literal base for me townreading someone at this point is "they understand we need to vote united with Ranger and aren't trying to hold the game hostage against that with their own ego"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That is the LITERAL base

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i guess i'm confused why ranger is like
"we should vote within the three of {RR, LLD, Gimli} due to potential doc shenanigans and then when RR does that for ranger's reasoning it's suspect

Because I'm conftown, not confright/confsmart. LLD advocated for sheeping my call and nothing else mattering.

Other players didn't.
1562 even points out why it's bad to blindly sheep me. And far more damning,

Ranger is IC right now, yes. That does not mean she is infallible.
We should vote correctly today, whether Ranger agrees or doesn't. Her being confirmed makes her an incredibly valuable touchstone as a known good-faith source, and lowers the pool of elimination candidates increasing our odds of getting it right... but she is NOT an absolute authority that must be sheeped at all costs.

I believe it's correct play to vote in the pool of {RR, LLD, Gimli}.

Radical Rat themselves specified I am not infallible. My beliefs are included. Just because I believe the pool of {RR, LLD, Gimli} is correct to vote within does not make it correct. I believe it is; I am not infallible.

Radical Rat believing I am not infallible, and Radical Rat sheeping my belief, is a contradiction.

Yes you are fallable but you know what else you are?

Town.

Confirmed town.

In ELO.

People can and SHOULD try to sway you but anyone advocating that they should have more sway over today than you and voting ahead of your call is WRONG

[Lady Lambdadelta]

all I get from you is condescending interactions

the problem is that you're using it to beat up what I think is likely a correct solve

idk its really effective I've no motivation to argue

that was @lld

This is the first time I've been condescending with you.

And your solve assuming you are town is wrong.

I also literally spent today being done with this game and people dragged me out of ot so I don't get this idea that I am somehow like manipulating it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i think every player is waiting on you lld is just loud

Except the one who has already voted

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But yeah, loud.

Honestly I'm so tired of hearing that. We went back and fucking forth today. I posted about as much as anyone. Ranger reads EVERY post.

I'm not more loud than anyone FUCK god I hate this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ok but i haven't voted because i'm waiting on ranger

but somehow lld is untouchable

Untouchable how?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like lets say Ranger comes in and says. "I want to do STD today and votes there."

Are you going to vote against Ranger and force a no elim or worse let scum win?

Like look at this. Look at it.

This is apparently a townie saying "no I will not vote with the other confirmed townie with the game on the line"



I will not vote StD today, barring extenuating circumstances. This is different because I actually townread StD as opposed to picking the most agreeable of my two very strong scumreads.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

People are out here on me about shit but someone just literally said "if Ranger picks STD I will not follow"

Instead of arguing to Ranger to not do STD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sorry i'm tilted from out of game thing

gonna step away.

i don't think loud is necessarily a bad thing tho

No but it is something that gets thrown at women primarily as an insult and I hate.

Not that you are like that it just

Fucking kills me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

How does me saying I won't vote for StD imply I won't also be trying to convince other people not to?

We'll you haven't done it at all so far.

Also saying "no I won't ever vote this person even if the confirmed town in ELO votes them and says they will never move" is kind of finality

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And anti town if you are town.

Like not in the way people throw around as an insult

In the "this is anti town behaviour for a townie to do because it loses games on the spot" way

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because that hasn't happened yet???

Why do you need to wait for Ranger to VOTE STD to state your opinions?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like FUCK god.

I pray you are scum. I really do.

Cause if you flip town after all of this I am going to lose my fucking mind.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

She literally just said she suspected STD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wow that was prophetic

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh wait 3 minites late.

Fuck

[Lady Lambdadelta]

what a coincidence I'd like to kill you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but we'll see what ranger says

[Lady Lambdadelta]

cause from your PoV Kawaii should be a counter claim to you lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I also don't think it's a coincidence you hung back and weren't expecting to be pounced on when I did.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I have more questions about RR's alignment in my head than I do yours.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

V/LA for the weekend

Acknowledged!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think you should re-read LLD today specifically. Trying to incite a no lim after fishing for Doc claims is sketchy as hell, and the main reason I've turned around on my LLD read today. Her supporting blind faith in you is also not great. And look at Kawaii's interaction around my shenanigans yesterday. They're the only one who didn't express any skepticism toward it, and just hopped on to quickhammer with no real commentary, and it's the only thing they did all day.

LLD has done a really good job of looking Town until today, but now that we're in MeLo, she's shown her hand in trying to force a favorable outcome for scum.

I know I've fucked up a lot this game. A lot of the blame for the current gamestate is squarely mine, and I know that. But I'm still Town, and eliminating me now loses the game. Please, please reconsider

"Force a favourable outcome for scum"

by.... defaulting to Mastina?

You're still doing this thing where you try to frame things poorly, which I get you need to do but

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Radical Rat

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if it's over just tell us please

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GG.

I know I kinda dug my own grave here, but even so I was hoping...

I was apparently wrong about LLD though, so I guess it probably would have ended like this no matter how today went

eh, i knew this was possible when i put it all in Ranger's hands, but i also sort of chucked it earlier in the game doing Furtive over Ceph.

Admittedly, I also believed in the Umlat/RR dichotomy and i kind of wash my hands on that one since it cleared ranger.

it was the correct choice to follow ranger today.

double admittedly STD being a weapon about your stance and all made me suspect him most of all so if he's town i'm veyr lost

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It was Gimli/Kawaii wasn't it?

i think so, yes.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well, we'll see what happens tonight.