Newbie 2117 | Postgame

[Andante]

Wait I worded that wrong. I can't think of any reason for them

NOT

to confirm

my only tr from d1 is dead. so seeing that my gut reaction was "I can not wait for tracker to have tracked me to the kill" also part of my motivation for wanting to get ahead of that and the possibility delta's tunnel was tracker related. (just a reminder, I am NOT asking you to claim delta, I do not want this to be taken that way, I doubt it would be, but you never know)

[Andante]

I also don't see how you are legitatelym clearing bluesnake

blue is lock town!

who do you think is scum?

[Andante]

deadass, seeing my target die, my reaction was "oh I can't wait for tracker to yell that I did that..." XD

[Malakittens]

please walk me through blue being locked town?

[Andante]

nah I’d rather hear your thoughts/why you disagree with my blue read, like who do you think is town/scum?

[Black]

who do you think is scum?

This is a good question mala

[Malakittens]

Stop being hard headed.

I want to know why you are clearing someone for calling you wild and chaotic regarding the hammer. I just don't understand the logic behind that. I want to know if you are seeing something I don't.

As for snake -- I personally didn't like how easy/fast that he moved onto the Brian wagon. I also didn't like how fast that wagon built up without my vote, but I had something bother me towards the end of d1.

I didn't like snakes first post to you to hard claim. That felt like scum fishing. In addition to double down and vote you.
As far as 559 goes I dislike it for a couple things: I feel like snake is trying to gather information for the scum team. Without you hardclaiming scum don't know what the setup is, nor, do they have any hints. making posts like this is only useful to scum because reactions off help gather small associative.

I'm also not understanding why black got removed from a POV all together, but that's a different story for another day.

I also don't like the quick jump onto me after he said id ISO, but is like "shes lurking" as a reason to vote me.

[Deltabreedy]

General Reads:

I'm only seeing defensive and explanatory posts - no gamesolving from Mala.
Think Blue is acting super weird. The rolefishing plus then just quite openly sheeping Andante just doesnt sit right with me. Scummiest read of the game for me so far.
Reading through and disregarding the 'locktown' attitude that Andante has on Black, they are in a weird spot for me. I don't know why Andante has this implicit trust of them.
Chao has barely said anything this game. There's a lot of words but they say very very little. Chao hasn't really taken a solid position all game and I feel is the most guilty of active lurking.
Kawaii apparently doesn't care enough to post.

--

Potential teams for me as of right now:

Chao/Blue

- In #188, Blue votes Chao, their first vote of the game but Chao doesn't respond to it at all. In fact, Chao goes on to simply bemoan a lack of opinions which 200 posts or so into the game feels a bit forced. A load of interaction between the two in #212 to #271, they have a back and forth that doesn't involve any pressure and doesn't actually comment on anything else happening which is odd - #284 is a fairly solid post but after this is the whole Blue/Chao thoughts on Brian 'theory'.

The face that Blue yields so quickly after Chao's response in #356 and that they go from Potential SR to TR to TBD back to TR over the course of this interaction looks incredibly weird - Blue lets Chao off really easily and since then has failed to mention Chao.

Votes: Blue was on the Brian wagon early on but I don't think that lets them off the hook. I think it's a numerically sound theory to suggest that there was one scum on the wagon, the other members of the wagon were UP (ConfTown by way of NK), Black (I lean town but distrustful here), Myself (Town) and Andante (Uncountered FN). It's also worth noting that Chao was instead voting Kawaii, whilst holding a SR on Brian and has of course had a completely minimal impact in D2.

--

Mala/Blue

- Mala barely mentions Blue and doesn't share anything alignment-indicative in D1 at all beyond activity here, in post #327. Blue's #396 I have already pointed out for coming across as gauging their own read, but I can now read this as an active disassociation by implying that Mala had a scumping on one of those four players. By including themselves in the mix, it serves to distance them from Mala. Mala, it has to be noted, never answers this. #399 has a question to Mala reaffirming that their is a scumping which again goes unanswered. The thing which I think helps push this below Blue/Chao is Mala's D2 play, wherein she's pressuring Blue RE: Rolefishing. It's not, however, backed up with a vote. Does Mala's D1 play count as distancing from Blue and is D2 a reversal of her policy on this, or is Mala just lurk!town?

VCA for Blue is above with Blue/Chao - I'm interested to see if Mala's vote goes back to Black after ending the day with her vote there, or if it goes to Blue who D2!Mala's posts seem to indicate a deeper scum read for.

--

A big ping that sets me off on both of these is that after putting Brian at E-1, Blue doesn't mention Brian again. They also never pursued their scumread on them or tried to do any convincing - they voted Chao for 'sheeping Brian', and they then voted Brian after the whole Chao/Brian TBD argument but they never actually go into why Brian should be limmed - it was just assumed. Seriously, go to their ISO, Control+F 'Brian' and see how many times they mention them without ever actually trying to convince others of their scumread, or asking Brian any questions. The only one is in #357, which with the benefit of hindsight is a particularly flimsy case that kind of echoed very general Brian wagon sentiments.


I think the more likely of the two here is Blue/Chao, but that has to be mitigated by the fact that there is not much to go on from Mala, Kawaii or Chao. I do like Mala's last post, since it echoes my own sentiment about Blue not being mechanically clear and Andante - I encourage you to read these cases, do your own VCA and see if it matches up. Blue is not locktown at all, and is infact the scummiest player - I'm of the opinion that they're the optimal lim today. There is nobody that is locked-in as town, and the sooner you open your mind to possibilities outside of Mala/Kawaii/Chao and include Blue and Black in the limpool (maybe not Black, but I'm inherently cautious of her), the better. The 'LockTown' attitude is only going to hurt us when it comes to day end.

[Deltabreedy]

There was no commitment to the lim. I think Blue simply knew Brian was town so was happy to help the wagon along, but specifically didn't push the wagon by anything other than their vote so that they couldn't take a share of the blame for the town flip.

I need everyone to look at this argument, I'm confident that this is scum. It adds up both in ISO and in concert with associative reads with two other slots as a minimum./B].

[Deltabreedy]

@Mod: Requesting prod on Kawaii

[furtiveglance]

Prodding KawaiiKame.

[BlueSnakelet]

A big ping that sets me off on both of these is that after putting Brian at E-1, Blue doesn't mention Brian again. They also never pursued their scumread on them or tried to do any convincing - they voted Chao for 'sheeping Brian', and they then voted Brian after the whole Chao/Brian TBD argument but they never actually go into why Brian should be limmed - it was just assumed. Seriously, go to their ISO, Control+F 'Brian' and see how many times they mention them without ever actually trying to convince others of their scumread, or asking Brian any questions. The only one is in #357, which with the benefit of hindsight is a particularly flimsy case that kind of echoed very general Brian wagon sentiments.

I've got no defense against this. After getting nowhere in my pursuit of BrianXchao, I just sort of give up. I really did vote Brian because he was the most scumread player, and I really wanted it to be right.

[Deltabreedy]

So who's your partner?

[BlueSnakelet]

I don't have one.

[Deltabreedy]

Can you justify a reason why I oughtn't tunnel you until you're eliminated?

I need you to justify your read on Mala now as well, please. Kawaii has lurked more so your current reason is factually inaccurate.

[BlueSnakelet]

Can you justify a reason why I oughtn't tunnel you until you're eliminated?

I'm town.

I need you to justify your read on Mala now as well, please. Kawaii has lurked more so your current reason is factually inaccurate.

By the time I voted Mala, we knew she had been online (she had posted a meaningless joke), and yet she didn't comment on anything that was happening.

And Kame gave us more useful info Day 1 too, that's why I considered Mala a lurkier lurker.

[Deltabreedy]

1.

@Andante, do you have a reason to not say what your role is, even though you already claimed PR?

I don't like this post. I feel like you are fishing for the role, but the last game someone wrote this they were town, but either way the vibe is bad.

2.

If Andante is a town PR, she'll either be NK or she'll be roleblocked from now on, now that she already claimed PR.

Unless she's a Mason in A3, now I realize.

Keeping this for notes esp if a RB'er is present on the scumteam.

3.

I think chaod town! I agree! Andante hammer too wild to be from scum

alright pool of 4 down to 3 for where scum is. easy enough.

what type of logic is this.

Then your vote:

VOTE: MalaKittens

*snip*

By the time I voted Mala, we knew she had been online (she had posted a meaningless joke), and yet she didn't comment on anything that was happening.
*snip*

What you posted is demonstrably misleading.

Can you also be clear for me - are you voting Mala because of activity (for which there has now been a change, yet your vote remains), or was it to sheep Andante as you your self said:

*snip*

In the meantime, however, I'll help Andante push Mala. She's been the lurkiest of the lurkers, and I really want to hear her speak.

Help me out here.

[BlueSnakelet]

Sorry, I didn't read the thread to make sure what I was saying is correct. In my head, I had voted Mala way earlier.

I did really did think she was lurking for the reason I described.

And no, I'm not going to unvote Mala just because she talked a little bit. I want more from her.

[Deltabreedy]

But there's no questions or probing. No prompting for information - just a request to talk.

I'd understand that if they hadn't spoken but they have and rather than seize the opportunity as I believe town would to ask questions and scumhunt - you're blithely sitting by and being very passive about it.

[BlueSnakelet]

I want her to give opnions on whatever is happening at this moment.

I see that she has already started pushing me. If she's seriously scumhunting, she should give her opnions on this little interrogation and my answers without much prompting.

[Andante]

Blue, how much experience to you have playing mafia? you remind me of someone I know

[BlueSnakelet]

This is my third game playing with strangers on the internet. Most of my Mafia experience comes from playing real time games (games with a 24-Hour day-night cicle) through texting apps with people I know in real life.

[Andante]

ah nice, what's your read on Delta?

[BlueSnakelet]

I still think he's town.

[BlueSnakelet]

I might be biased, but in my very first scum game I just had to sit back while really opnionated townies pushed miselimination wagons. I think Delta is this game's really opnionated townie, and the Mafia is just sitting back while he pushes people.