TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like am I known to get into fights strategically? I don't think so? I think if you know me to be combative in games I think you would know it's consistently because I get tilted.

you are from an era of gameplay that punches people in the throat and sees what shakes out

you literally are claiming my "reaction" is the scumread

and you're telling me you weren't trying to intentionally tilt me

no, more than that, you're telling me you don't think that I think you'd do this?

Fuck I used to do this. I haven't seen you play mafia in YEARS.

My initial vote on you was because I thought you were just spewing buzzwords with no meaning out substance. Your reaction made me dig in, butt I wasn't baiting one.

They aren't buzzwords ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it's a logical argument about statistical likelyhoods based on prior Open Game outcomes and optimal play patterns.

You don't have to townread me for doing it, I'd do it as scum easily, but it's not scummy to want to do optimal play, nor is it buzzwordy to insist we engage in it. If you don't want to engage in it or don't trust it, engage with the argument. That was my WHOLE ASS POINT.

I do not see substance in the posts you made at that time. Unless you wanna dig into like specific examples that's all I got.

i gave you two specific examples, including the single most recently played PYP game onsite, which I referenced several times and contained precisely what I am talking about. Like every element I am talking about.

[Ythan]

Like am I known to get into fights strategically? I don't think so? I think if you know me to be combative in games I think you would know it's consistently because I get tilted.

you are from an era of gameplay that punches people in the throat and sees what shakes out

you literally are claiming my "reaction" is the scumread

and you're telling me you weren't trying to intentionally tilt me

no, more than that, you're telling me you don't think that I think you'd do this?

Fuck I used to do this. I haven't seen you play mafia in YEARS.

My initial vote on you was because I thought you were just spewing buzzwords with no meaning out substance. Your reaction made me dig in, butt I wasn't baiting one.

They aren't buzzwords ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it's a logical argument about statistical likelyhoods based on prior Open Game outcomes and optimal play patterns.

You don't have to townread me for doing it, I'd do it as scum easily, but it's not scummy to want to do optimal play, nor is it buzzwordy to insist we engage in it. If you don't want to engage in it or don't trust it, engage with the argument. That was my WHOLE ASS POINT.

I do not see substance in the posts you made at that time. Unless you wanna dig into like specific examples that's all I got.

i gave you two specific examples, including the single most recently played PYP game onsite, which I referenced several times and contained precisely what I am talking about. Like every element I am talking about.

You made reference to another game in a way that I do not find substantive.

[Ythan]

I'm talking about specific examples of substantive posts you made at that stage in this thread not specific examples you made at that time.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like am I known to get into fights strategically? I don't think so? I think if you know me to be combative in games I think you would know it's consistently because I get tilted.

you are from an era of gameplay that punches people in the throat and sees what shakes out

you literally are claiming my "reaction" is the scumread

and you're telling me you weren't trying to intentionally tilt me

no, more than that, you're telling me you don't think that I think you'd do this?

Fuck I used to do this. I haven't seen you play mafia in YEARS.

My initial vote on you was because I thought you were just spewing buzzwords with no meaning out substance. Your reaction made me dig in, butt I wasn't baiting one.

They aren't buzzwords ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it's a logical argument about statistical likelyhoods based on prior Open Game outcomes and optimal play patterns.

You don't have to townread me for doing it, I'd do it as scum easily, but it's not scummy to want to do optimal play, nor is it buzzwordy to insist we engage in it. If you don't want to engage in it or don't trust it, engage with the argument. That was my WHOLE ASS POINT.

I do not see substance in the posts you made at that time. Unless you wanna dig into like specific examples that's all I got.

i gave you two specific examples, including the single most recently played PYP game onsite, which I referenced several times and contained precisely what I am talking about. Like every element I am talking about.

You made reference to another game in a way that I do not find substantive.

These are literally ONE OF THE FIRST of this version of PYP and one of the most RECENT versions of this PYP both with the elements I am talking about as evidence, showing a longitudinal basis for the understanding of the game I am describing.

I don't get how that's not Substantive.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm talking about specific examples of substantive posts you made at that stage in this thread not specific examples you made at that time.

the fuck are you talking about

i don't know remotely what you're trying to say here

[Ythan]

We are discussing why I initially voted you. If you want to dig into a post you had made before that that you feel contradicts what I said about your posting at that time we can do that.

[Ythan]

Perhaps there is something specific you said about one of those games you would like to discuss?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Perhaps there is something specific you said about one of those games you would like to discuss?

.

.

.

Jesus christ you're going to make me describe the outcomes of both games instead of reading them

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I hate you.

Fine.

[Ythan]

I mean I'm not going to read them and if I do it won't be tonight at game start.

[Ythan]

You sound like you're accustomed to people reading games they didn't play and if that's true I apologize for any inconvenience.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=90403

In this PYP game, scum existed within the 3 grouping, pushed players at the top of the draft order to learn where power roles were to kill the cop, decidedly the scariest powerrole, and as a result nearly came back from a situation where all 3 mafia failed to obtain a single role and town only missed out on the Vigs in the draft.

It proves my point as a single evidence point regarding killing in groups where 3 or more players submit the same number and why pushing players at the top of the list is wrong, the draftign strategy of scum also proves why number theory is useful as a guider.

[Ythan]

I'm barely reading this one (that's a joke)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You sound like you're accustomed to people reading games they didn't play and if that's true I apologize for any inconvenience.

I'm accustomed to people who question the validity of statements I make doing the research to back their fucking claims instead of just running on pure ego of "well that sounds wrong"

or at least asking ANOTHER PLAYER to confirm the statements

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm barely reading this one (that's a joke)

I know you're saying you're not trying to tilt me so I'll believe you

but this is tilting me, lmfao

[imaginality]

okay, so do you know why my team was able to predict that we should never pick 6?

Because 6 is the single most picked number in PYP history. The literal last game of this that was run I was scum in even included multiple people on 6s.

When 3 players end up on the same number, and that number is famously known for being highly picked, it's very likely there is one scum in the list if not 2 doing a scum gambit that has HAPPENED IN TEAM MAFIA BEFORE (Faraday and Hoopla did it).

Even from a statistical model, 3 people picking the same number contains scum a large percent of the time.

And finally, killing on the bottom end of the draft pool reduces scum's opportunity to learn our roles by pressuring our top end, forcing a clam and backing off and then forcing another claim, a strategy I employed as scum literally 2 months ago when I last played this game as scum and nearly won.

This was a fantastic opening in RVS to spark debate (okay, 8 pages maybe a bit ott) but there are a couple of flaws if you are actually serious about this as a reason for who to lim D1.

First, the mod said this is a different draft method (closest to median) to other PVPs so the previous drafts are irrelevant.

Second, any random group of 3 players has a 42% chance of containing at least one mafia (from the perspective of an uninformed townie). So when you say "a large percent" is it really a large percent or just baseline chance plus maybe a small bit extra?

The point about mafia buddies choosing the same as a gambit is maybe valid (I don't know if it happens often in practice) but I would've thought more likely they'd do that with a number like 19 or 1 where fewer townies might also pick, so they have less risk of being low in the draft.

Also, if your team was able to predict "you should never pick 6," wouldn't that make mafia even less likely to pick 6, since they have two teams helping them?

Anyhow I had an excellent reason for picking 6 which will be revealed in my next post...

[Alisae]

It's a good interaction but it's late and I don't think people should be waking up to 8+ pages of you two just flinging shit at each other. That's just +scum I believe

I CAN SEE THE FUTURE

[imaginality]

Grrr. So much for the mathematicians who told me 6 is a "perfect number."

Damn those mathematicians.

Damn maths.

If only I could vote maths...

Hmm, I almost can...

VOTE: mith

[Ythan]

viewtopic.php?t=90403

In this PYP game, scum existed within the 3 grouping, pushed players at the top of the draft order to learn where power roles were to kill the cop, decidedly the scariest powerrole, and as a result nearly came back from a situation where all 3 mafia failed to obtain a single role and town only missed out on the Vigs in the draft.

It proves my point as a single evidence point regarding killing in groups where 3 or more players submit the same number and why pushing players at the top of the list is wrong, the draftign strategy of scum also proves why number theory is useful as a guider.

This would have been sort of substantive if you had posted it then. I'll look again at what you did post and get back to you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17417

The first game of this form, with 4 players picking 6, and 2 scum in 6 pulling the PRECISE gambit I was speaking about. In 2011. This game was the proof that the scum double up gambit can and does work, if played correctly. Papa Zito ate death but Farady and Hoopla carried from there as a result.

Shows more evidence for "people with same number, statistically contains scum" and "scum can and will forgo roles to gambit together".

[Alisae]

Menalque (1)
Datisi (1)
Bellaphant (19)
Cephrir (19)

LLD what do you think of the 2 1s and the 2 19s?

[Ythan]

Oh yeah VOTE: mith

VOTE: lld

[Lady Lambdadelta]

viewtopic.php?t=22791

Petapan replaces in for Iamausername, scum in the group of 5 at the bottom of the draft order.

[Alisae]

mith

has a red username so he must be mafia right?

[Bellaphant]

....has the conversation moved on at all from page four? I don't want to read people shouting at each other.