Newbie 2119: Pictures of People Wearing Cool Hats | GAME OVER

[Bellaphant]

See, I kind of feel/felt this way about black: the sequence was dragon posted shading them, delta posted shading that post, and I posted shading delta/supporting dragon/low key supporting the shade on black , and then when she also jumped on the slip it felt connected.

That might be nuts though. But like, of the people I've already said I lm not town reading and the people who jumped on me, theres a big crossover m

@black, I'll go back and find the quote, it might have been commet, just talking about the hammer (plus any sort of partner searching before a flip) felt really premature

@venmar, that kind of makes sense.

Early game Bella had this down I think

[Black]

But town!black would have no way of knowing if we’re in col A or col C.

I'm not following you here. When Bella claimed Doc it was pretty clear we were in A or C. Unless she's lying, but why would you even consider that with no cc?

I don't think this is a valid point at all

[Black]

AV trying to shade the un-cc'd Doc here is wild. I'm not understanding how she's not cleared here

[Black]

I'm still going to try to solve today regardless if I'm the lim choice. Hopefully I can figure out who it is between patch/AV so that my flip can lead us to victory

[Black]

I have a pretty damning sequence between patch/Delta but let me shower and get coffee first

[Black]

Guys it only takes 4 votes to lim. I'm already at e-2. It's fine if y'all agree to yeet me but please at least give D2 some time. Rushing here does no good

[Venmar]

UNVOTE:

Just cause I do think Black is entitled to a response and we don't need to rush this too hard

[Venmar]

The thing that makes me stop and wonder is venmar is also saying the same thing and presuming the presence of a roleblocker, so maybe it’s unfair to put that expectation onto black? But when venmar arrived he at least acknowledged the potential for Bella to have killed comet with his question about the (possible) roleblocker, so it feels slightly less informed?

Nobody has CC'd Bella, and Comet flipped cop, so column A is the only possible option right? I haven't played in years and a newbie in even longer so I had to get clarification on if scum can multitask in these but unless someone wants to CC Bella then I think it's obvious that the last scum must be a Roleblocker. Idk why you're shading this tbh with regards to me.

As for Black, again, if she's a townie, and she sees Bella claim doc and Delta claim cop, with no other CC's we're just in column A? I don't think scum makes a play here with informed knowledge unless I'm missing something here, if you're saying a !scumBlack would trust the claims because she's a Roleblocker and therefore can confirm it's column A, it's moot imo since townies have no reason to not trust Bella without a CC atm so it's NAI spec imo.

[Black]

Alright. So the sequence starts with Delta's 1010. You don't have to read this whole reads list. The important takeaway here is that Delta rides the fence on patch here and ends up giving her a townlean.

(Patch uses this to TR Delta in 1013 but this isn't really part of why this is weird, I just found this interesting. Delta/patch have almost the exact same reads here)

In 1015 I ask patch "Do you think you would feel any different about Delta's post if he didn't TR you?"

Patch responds in 1022 that "he's not TRing me"
Then they quickly respond in 1025 "i lied delta is townreading me. id probably still like it

but ur right that the flip on me is weird

"

The blue part is for emphasis, because this sequence is all about this "flip" on patch

Patch is referring to my post 1019 where I say that Delta's "flip flop on patch is kinda weird"

I was mistaken in 1019 and there was no flip flop on patch. For some reason patch just goes along with this imaginary flip-flop by Delta. I don't realize that I'm wrong about the flip-flop until Delta points it out several pages later in 1197 - "What is the flipflop you're referring to in #1019? I'm leaning slight town on them but I'm pretty cautious of the vibes I'm getting because I know I'm getting the vibes from meta play. When I look at it objectively it feels weird to me, which I think is partially because it's not layered prose for me to dig through, rather short bursts of text. On Patch, I'm leaning town over null by a nose."

A key takeaway from this post is that Delta doesn't call out patch for saying "the flip on me is weird". He only invokes me about it. He purposefully avoided asking patch to elaborate on the flip and why it's weird

I think this snap defense from patch... "he's not TRing me" gives off nervous energy. Then they fold and say they agree with me on a Delta flip-flop that doesn't exist

[Black]

I think when looking at patches position on D1 it becomes pretty likely that they are the other wolf here. They SRed Delta almost the entire day and painted a worldview of Dragon/Delta, but only voted for Delta at the end of the Day when it was time to bus. In 837 they even have Delta as their top scumread! And keep in mind patch put Dragon as null here (even though Dragon was in her lim pool at the time?) This is important because patch sides with Delta later on towards the end of the Day by voting for Dragon in 1528

[Black]

I'm not 100% it's patches but I'm leaning there over AV

I'm going to spend some time today looking over everything. I want to nitpick these 3 ISO's and figure out who is most likely Delta's partner. I encourage you all to do the same and yes, look at my ISO too

[Venmar]

The problem with Delta's reads in #1010 is that in the paragraph about his read on Patch, he gives a mostly non-committal townlean, yes, but he also contradicts himself at least twice in the same post by saying Patch calling happy newbtown doesn't reflect well on Patch and he disliked Patch's townreading of Vox. Delta's own reads on Patch weren't the most consistent, and it's possible that Black read the whole post and saw the townlean paragraph on Patch but also remembered the scumlean comments elsewhere in the post and interpreted it as a flip-flop mostly accurately.

As for Patch, no offense to them but they do seem like a pretty oblivious player and I feel like if you told them that Delta was doing X, they will believe you unless they take the time to fact check it for themselves. It's possible Patch skimmed Delta's 1010 and saw the negative comments about them and thought Delta wasn't TReading them, and then you pointed out Delta was, and Patch felt gaslight and just agreed in 1025. The whole "nervous energy" is also mostly null to me since that's just the vibe I get from a lot of their posts, they're very erratic and scatterbrained in general.

[Black]

i think i'm willing to compromise on venmar and delta (though delta to a muchh smaller degree)

i think i'm willing to compromise on venmar and delta (though delta to a muchh smaller degree)

This is so weird. Patch had delta as a top tier scumread and Venmar as "null leaning town" but they aren't as willing to compromise on Delta?

[Black]

again venmar's iso is just ... boring. it's really dry and still sort of an ultranull

To add to that, Patch lists Venmar as an "ultranull" here. Why would she be less willing to compromise on a scumread than an "ultranull" read?

[Black]

They*

[Venmar]

Patch's reasons for scumreading me I think are purely PoE and non-existent ftr. I guess I'm just a boring player.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, I basically don't want to elim in happy/venmar/dragon and can see reasons the other three could be scum.

I'll re-read delta in iso at some point.

[Black]

This sequence is weird. I'm looking for the first time patch SR's Delta and I came across them leaving Delta out of an early game town pool after TRing him multiple times

Spoiler: this looks clunky so it goes in tags

i like delta's #149

accidentally pressed submit but i think it's tvt because venmar's vibes are good and feel towny (btw gotta UNVOTE: my rvs vote)

and delta plays like his meta

lol yeah delta and venmar are def tvt

delta tends to scumread very easily on overzealous hyperbolic language and the scumread reason of "we" is just the cherry on top

lol yeah delta and venmar are def tvt

Definitely? Idk, I think Delta is more than capable of replicating his town game as scum. I can't say for certain though because I haven't seen a scum game of his yet

Venmar feels pretty town atm

fair, i just think delta is town

like the moment he starts making sense he's scum i think

UNVOTE: Dragon

Fairs fair. I didn't read that as progression but side by side yeah, I get it.

I don't agree that it's TvT, but maybe I am being a little bit overzealous in my pursuit. Like I say, trying to break my tunnel tendancies and keep an open mind.

Dragon, I believe in using my vote as a clear indicator of where my thoughts are - before I put it back on Venmar, where do you think I should be looking instead?

Ninja'd by Bella but phoneposting so will post them read & address.

Yeah, townread on Delta.

He's less tunnely this game and is interacting with a large amount of slots too, which is a plus.

Random question but who are you scumreading?

i used to scumread bella really hard and then i scumread venmar and then i scumread you and at this point i don't know and don't think i can make conclusions yet because i'm really bad at scumhunting

i can say that i townread black, you, and venmar, though

[Black]

honestly i'm not really sure on who i tr/sr. i want to townread dragon really badly, but dear god are his posts just... not hitting the bar that they usually do. like, in terms of pure vibes, yeah, it feels towny, but then when you factor in what he's actually saying you (i) realize that someone needs to slap the rose-tinted glasses off my face, because i feel like i'm just far too attached to dragon from our previous games.

yeah, that works. thank you for the offer.

yes, vox is my strongest tr. iamveryhappy is also up there.

This is shortly after leaving Delta out of their early townblock. Up to this point patch has only dropped TRs on Delta. Why are they refusing to include him in town pools?

[Black]

Yeah, I basically don't want to elim in happy/venmar/dragon and can see reasons the other three could be scum.

(just chiming in that this is where I stand. It's me, patch, or AV today)

[Bellaphant]

......delta's interactions with patch basically all look really coachy, they fence sit basically all the time on black 'she could be Bella's partner if that wasn't bonkers' 'she playing....fine', this happens /a lot/, and I think they engage with av/about av less than half a dozen times.


Hmmmm

[Black]

to be honest my limpool is (dragon, delta, venmar) in order from most confident to least confident

BOOM! This is it guys. I think I just found it. Up to this point patch had

only

expressed townreads on Delta. You can check my post above or you can just look at their ISO yourself

So why on Earth would Delta be in their lim pool here? And he's their 2nd most confident scumread?

Yeah, it's patch here

[Black]

^ I'm not sure if I'm going to find better evidence than this but I'm going to continue through the ISO

[Bellaphant]

Can you look at delta next, just to confirm or deny my general takes there? All three could be scum partners

[Bellaphant]

That all feels very early game though black.