TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Alisae]

I think my current scumread of LLD is more to do with the volume and attitude of the numbers discussion more than with disagreeing over her conclusion (I don't currently have any reason to think she doesn't believe what she's been pushing about the scum-in-triple probability). It completely flooded the early game in a way that doesn't strike me as productive for town, where I can see plenty of benefit for scum to try to push on a particular group of players (potentially stifling other D1 discussion; and the argument about it has certainly had the effect of stifling my willingness to read through everything). I particularly don't care for the start of the argument with Ythan.

Like reading this, it seems like you think LLD's actions are something that could come from a wolf but I feel like if you're a wolf, it's pretty easy to want to push a read like this and hang onto it.
You could also be a villager and this is a valid concern. This is something I'm thinking about as well but I hoping I can get a clearer answer as to what's going on if I just let the game develop and just let LLD do what she wants to do.

This is my biggest worry regarding mith

[Cephrir]

are you still struggling with reads?

yes

im viewing the game through the lens of my teammates' takes being correct at the moment as mine are, behind the 8 ball

[Alisae]

are you still struggling with reads?

yes

im viewing the game through the lens of my teammates' takes being correct at the moment as mine are, behind the 8 ball

Would u like help?

[Datisi]

i would have to check if this is a component of ali's towngame as well, but the way they keep, like, *explaining* posts to those that made them and asking questions that seem to be leading to where they want is not sitting right with me

like, the way they interacted w me about "why you so mad about gimli 2" and "how did you read me then" seems like alisae was trying to convince *me* of how *i* used to read them. and then using that to push me. and then when being corrected, saying "lol not good enough sorrey". it feels like going through the motions of asking me a question for the sake of appearing to think about it.

i have to start getting ready for uni shit, i'll take a look at the mentioned games later to see if i may just be misremembering them

[Cephrir]

are you still struggling with reads?

yes

im viewing the game through the lens of my teammates' takes being correct at the moment as mine are, behind the 8 ball

Would u like help?

I'm about to go to sleep so

The 8 ball says ask again later

[Alisae]

*explaining* posts to those that made them and asking questions that seem to be leading to where they want is not sitting right with me

what the fuck are you talking about?

[Datisi]

i literally gave an example in the next para on how you were trying to explain to me how i used to read you, based on ???

[Alisae]

like, the way they interacted w me about "why you so mad about gimli 2" and "how did you read me then" seems like alisae was trying to convince *me* of how *i* used to read them. and then using that to push me. and then when being corrected, saying "lol not good enough sorrey". it feels like going through the motions of asking me a question for the sake of appearing to think about it.

how do you read me

[Alisae]

It can't only be "I only think Ali is a wolf if they make takes that make me want to bang my head against the wall" there has to be more to it than that

[Datisi]

well it's also "if ali quickhammers a scum PR without making them claim TPR and forcing a CC, then she's town"

like you're doing the i am telling you how you are supposed to be playing thing that's just not true

[Alisae]

like you're doing the i am telling you how you are supposed to be playing thing that's just not true

I am realizing that I may or may not be doing this and this is why I am trying to understand how it is you read me, I don't get the full picture of how you could possibly reach the conclusion I was town for 117 and actually wanting to break up that fight

[Datisi]

because it seemed like a nuanced and productive take that i don't associate with scum ali, and because i thought scum ali would benefit more from that fight happening, regardless of people's alignments in it

ironically enough this was an early read meant as a starting point for solving the game and you are getting hung up on it

[Bellaphant]

This, and the previous conversation with alisae just feel really fake? I can't see any progression in your thinking, it's like you set an objective to sr alisae ans are just producing the next line, if that makes sense. I don't really see why you are arguing what you are, or how it's helpful.

P-edit is it part of a process?

[Alisae]

because it seemed like a nuanced and productive take that i don't associate with scum ali, and because i thought scum ali would benefit more from that fight happening, regardless of people's alignments in it

ironically enough this was an early read meant as a starting point for solving the game and you are getting hung up on it

ok
i gave you a game where I tried to break up a TvT between Beeboy and Sakura because I know those two fought with each other a lot and it would get me cred.
Does this introduction of new information change your read?

[Datisi]

not yet because i have not had time to look at it at all

tho i think your way of reading me is worse for you than the cred you git for the fight breakup so /shrug

[Datisi]

This, and the previous conversation with alisae just feel really fake? I can't see any progression in your thinking, it's like you set an objective to sr alisae ans are just producing the next line, if that makes sense. I don't really see why you are arguing what you are, or how it's helpful.

P-edit is it part of a process?

i already explained like twice why i don't like the way alisae is treating me and if you don't agree with it, that's fine, but saying you don't understand why is something else

i figured alisae out pretty well last game by arguing with them so i see a point and wanna see where it goes

btw i do still want klick to elaborate on why i was scum by meta there is a point to it as well

[Alisae]

Datisi do you have reads

[Bellaphant]

The thing we are both seeing is that we are struggling to see that you are solving/making progress: it feels like discussion for the sake of it/to insert into the narrative/you feel sr-ing ari makes you look town?

Klick says specifically that it's just about white flag but that it was the same there.

[Bellaphant]

I'm a little more lenient on trusting this as a process, I guess, and klick wants you to engage more with me directly

[Alisae]

Users Bellaphant and Klick, how do you two feel about user Staeg?

[Alisae]

Not fond of Rad's presence being the LLD null-or-town debacle + let's all take a breath, but the latter really isn't what I'd bill Rad for; Marashu's entrance being justify vote -> scumreading Rad for the moderation -> piggyback joke haha we're scum -> hop on Rad bandwagon was impressive, Gimli has the right idea

Implosion came in with good takes but then RVS'd instead of doing a real vote, which they still haven't moved; I like them following up on some of relevant setup theory bits ("this game does median, so how good is the data from previous games" + "you included the 1-in-5 as positive examples, but in reality those point in the opposite direction"), but they don't do anything with the protracted theory conversation (or otherwise) so I'm leaning scum on this one, too

VOTE: Marashu

I see this post and I thought that this post was written more so to look good and be ironclad than to actually be right.

[Alisae]

"Gimli has the right idea" could be strategical phrasing.

[Bellaphant]

Not as town-y as some people? I think a lot of people look town, rather than me having like three huge scum reads (ceph and gimli just vibes as town, you know?) Whereas rad, steag, someone else who I've literally forgot are just there.

[Bellaphant]

Maru, maybe. Imaginality had a few really good posts and then disappeared.

[Alisae]

ya know I forgot about marashu