Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Titus]

Drixx, you really have no response to me and FA discussing pros and cons? I feel you're being oppositional just to be oppositional here. Where's the nuance? I've felt DragonEater was town since the start of the game. I'm listening to others though. That's why I'm not in favor of derailing the DragonEater wagon completely. If I'm wrong, that's useful information too. I'm not 100% certain on DragonEater town and you're making it sound like I'm hard defending him. What I really want is the game to get going and opinions discussed. Every time I discuss something you oppose it or say that I'm trying to rescue someone. You're always arguing a negative interpretation which makes me wonder what your agenda is. Especially pursuing Proposal 1 which is great for you because you're smart enough to lead a scumteam with information about town's protective roles. The fact you claimed hidden information may motivate some of your decision making but I can't see how it leads to this. I feel if you're town you're carrying serious baggage. Your positing here is absolutely inconsistent with the chess match I was hoping to play. The Drixx I am used to is much more nuanced and analytical in his approaches. I'm not getting that here. I'm getting a bulldog. Anger is my weakness and I know it, so I have to balance that out. Something about you is off, my team agrees. They think it's anti-town off but definitely off here.

[Pink Ball]

Whats the rule of 3??

I'm shocked you don't remember this. Anytime a scum mentions three or more slots, there's a likelihood one of them is scum. In this case, there would be a scum in the green names, a scum in the light green names, and a scum in the yellow names. This would suggest that one of my SRs on Black or Drixx is wrong. I'd likely change over to an FA/Black or Drixx/Keysal based on interactions. (I'm supposing 4 scum).

It's not absolute as the GiF partner is a decent theory. However, it could be a whiteknight pocket. Based on the rule of 3, I'd just exclude or investigate GiF after a Klick flip.

I remember that you have explained this to me in the past now, but it has been some time the last time I saw it applied. All good

[Titus]

FA, if you're still here, I'd like to discuss worlds with you.

I don't see DragonEater as scum unless it's with Drixx who is positioning to have his proposition go through and to remove criticism at the same time.

Meanwhile I have major reservations on Klick based on the last few pages.
First, he didn't vote the GiF wagon despite GiF being low on his reads.
Second, he voted for DragonEater with very little progression or rationale for doing so.
Third, his spat feels very artificial (weakest point).

It lends some credence to the Klick + GiF theory. However, it's not my favorite. My favorite is that Klick wants to oppose kuribo because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar fishing and forgot about GiF as a scumread or wanted to save it for later. So he tries to push over the major wagon.

So worlds
DragonEater + Drixx
Klick + GiF,/Dunn/Black or Drixx
Klick/Dunn/Black or Drixx/Feysal <--- this one is the most likely if Drixx is town.

[Titus]

PB, your comments are welcome as well.

[Titus]

VOTE: Klick I realized I hadn't done that.

[Frozen Angel]

FA, if you're still here, I'd like to discuss worlds with you.

I don't see DragonEater as scum unless it's with Drixx who is positioning to have his proposition go through and to remove criticism at the same time.

Meanwhile I have major reservations on Klick based on the last few pages.
First, he didn't vote the GiF wagon despite GiF being low on his reads.
Second, he voted for DragonEater with very little progression or rationale for doing so.
Third, his spat feels very artificial (weakest point).

It lends some credence to the Klick + GiF theory. However, it's not my favorite. My favorite is that Klick wants to oppose kuribo because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar fishing and forgot about GiF as a scumread or wanted to save it for later. So he tries to push over the major wagon.

So worlds
DragonEater + Drixx
Klick + GiF,/Dunn/Black or Drixx
Klick/Dunn/Black or Drixx/Feysal <--- this one is the most likely if Drixx is town.

I'm here in background - multitasking basically with work so I read new stuff that gets posted for rest of night before I sleep

I really think I need to dig deeper for evaluating klick. like i saw him doing some ++ stuff that are evaluation on a town mindset (but still fakable as scum) and stuff that are -- and just fit for a scum mindset (but can be done by a town being lazy (?), opportunistic (?), testing the water (?))

idk if it makes sense but that's how I see klick rn.

I'm really not a fan of linking reads in day 1 but I can see universes all those reads work, maybe beside the last line cause I cant see the links at all and you need to explain.

my issue is I can see another universe in which DE is scum and you're advertising for a wagon on me and GIF and now klick is a way to strong arm a miselim and save the less active buddy on day 1.

this is why i prefer to solo scum/town read people on day 1 and avoid linking my reads till I have more info on at least one side of that "link"

[Thestatusquo]

I don't really just want to let GIF off the hook is the thing. He actually started posting a bit of content when pressured.

[Frozen Angel]

can you elaborate why you town read DE titus?

[Thestatusquo]

DE avoiding the game, and Titus up in here running cover.

What would your worldview look like if DE flipped town?

Evaluate everyone who took a hard stance on way or the other. Scum have been known to white knight for town slots for later cred, so it's not necessarily a world where if DE flipped green, the people counterwagoning get to be clear.

Thinking about this answer a bit I don't like it.

It's kind of like I asked you for directions to somewhere and you responded "go google it."

Like yes all of this is true in a vacuum but clearly I wanted more than this, like what you THOUGHTS are about WHO fits what roles in that general pattern.

[Titus]

FA, Fair enough. I am a theory crafter. I use theories to check my work. If something doesn't work with my theory, that means I went wrong somewhere. I used to push my theories super hard and ignore counter evidence which is a bad approach. Your tone, now that you're not riled up, feels much townier in nature. I can see from your perspective that me plus DE is a possible world knowing my tendencies and my reptuation. How I would defend DE is different if he was my partner. Namely, I would use the thread to defend DE for me. Scum!Titus gives people what they want. Town!Titus goes for what's correct. In my opinion, DragonEater is a bad elimination. The opening was too strong to ignore in my opinion. That being said, I'm aware I'm wrong. I'm not going to stop pushes on DE in case I am wrong (because I can't prove it and don't 100% know). Regardless of who is eliminated, we finally have wagons to work with. I'm not trying to "rescue" DE. I'm pushing the target I want. If I lose so be it. More info for tomorrow.

Shea, I totally understand that. We can't really be split as a town though. I've got good strong and not stale townreads on most of the game. The goal is to unify us to block out the scum.

[Titus]

DE avoiding the game, and Titus up in here running cover.

What would your worldview look like if DE flipped town?

Evaluate everyone who took a hard stance on way or the other. Scum have been known to white knight for town slots for later cred, so it's not necessarily a world where if DE flipped green, the people counterwagoning get to be clear.

Thinking about this answer a bit I don't like it.

It's kind of like I asked you for directions to somewhere and you responded "go google it."

Like yes all of this is true in a vacuum but clearly I wanted more than this, like what you THOUGHTS are about WHO fits what roles in that general pattern.

This is what I talked about when I said the nuance is missing from Drixx. Drixx can discuss alternative scenarios and what happens in each scenario. Here, he just seems lacking. I'm not seeing a chessmatch that I was expecting when I drew Drixx this game. I came to play chess and Drixx is playing Madden.

[Frozen Angel]

I just cant follow all your theories titus. I don't get why you were scum reading me and why you were confident DE's wagon is a distraction from my wagon and not vice versa. I still don't know why you town read DE and I don't know why you chose GIF to push after me.

so its a bit hard for me to follow your initiative, even though upon my iso dive on you I found your initiative overall towny for your specific playstyle as I mentioned before.

so it will really help if you just point at stuff you seeing on each slot so I can analyze and follow your thinking process over them.

[Klick]

Ok!
The feeling is mutual fwiw

this feels super reactionary in a way that strikes me as weird, though.

I was hoping for slightly more engagement than vote followed by 'just kind of a feeling' but I was considering doing basically that in the other direction before Pink Ball's DragonEater case

ok but like this is why it feels reactionary because I feel like you should have expected exactly the response std gave you. That's kinda just what STD does. It's been a consistent theme in THIS GAME even.

That doesn't mean I don't want more?
Like the thing I'm feeling from STD is a sense of reservation
I feel like I normally get a number of things from STD that I feel are genuine and match up really well with a sensible town thought process

And what I feel like I'm getting here is just kind of a cheap imitation of that
Idk if it means he's scum but it makes it hard to townread him like I want to

this is...not responsive to what I'm saying, in a way that feels kind of slimy.

I thought it was pretty clear that we're talking about STDs response to you asking him to talk to you about why he voted you.

in that context I was saying that its weird for you to expect more from STD than "vibes" when that is precisely how I would expect STD to answer the question you asked him like 90% of the time and I think you should also know that.

In this answer it feels like you're shifting the conversation to wanting more from STDs play IN GENERAL which was not what we were talking about, at least I thought it was pretty clear that wasn't what I was talking about.

It feels like you're trying to make my statement seem more unreasonable than it is? When I think the statement "its weird for you to say you expect more out of STD than vibes when you ask him about a vote" is completely reasonable.

These things are connected

If you want me to talk about only STD's response to me without considering my wider read on him, sure, that singular response from him is a fairly reasonable and expectable response to get from STD in this game

But I also want to talk about the fact that it contributes to a wider pattern of behaviour that, when put together as a whole, concerns me

Because that's what is ultimately actually making me feel weird about STD

As a broader point, I feel like you keep bringing up that you don't feel heard or responded to by me. Meanwhile, on my end, I feel like some of the things you're saying... aren't hugely relevant to me in terms of solving, in terms of their specificity? Like you're presumably asking me questions in order to get a better idea of what I am thinking about the game as a whole to get a better sense of your read on me. But when I do that, you are frustrated that I have not sufficiently given an answer to the specific thing that you asked about my thought process, when responding to just the original question doesn't feel like it gets to the meaningful bits of my thought process.

I don't feel like this wall of text conveys properly what I want it to but it's probably as good as I've got right now.

[Titus]

FA, are you asking for a readwall? I tend to read players in relation to each other. I no longer think DE was a wagon to save you. While it's a remote possibility, I would not expected to see the game stagnate with no one pushing that hard for either wagon (PB excluded but he was for DE).

GiF push was a meh it's possible, my townreads are okay with it and it got the game moving. We need 8 to lim and can't get above 4 because everyone has their pet project. It's like herding cats.

DE was my first real townread. If you look at the first 5 pages, I lay it out there.

[Thestatusquo]

I've noticed a pattern this game where you keep trying to like...idk minimize the things I'm saying? And it's annoying me and also making me feel like you're trying to subtly derail my solving or at least stop people from listening to me. So you're probably picking up on that feeling from me. It's super contributing to me not being able to find you if you're town. And if you are town it makes me wonder if you just don't respect me very much as a player? That's insecurity but these are the thoughts that have been popping into my head every time I've interacted with you.

[Save The Dragons]

i feel like klick's progression on me is a lot more vague than my progression on drixx

[Klick]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

What happened here to reduce DragonEater to voteable status?

Pink Ball's case on DragonEater in 1524 is persuasive to me. It seems to be based on actual tendencies in DragonEater's way of playing, whereas my townread was based on assumptions of how DragonEater would play without knowing that much about him. I also respect Pink Ball's scumhunting ability quite a lot outside of the legitimacy that I feel the actual case has. I think that case is better than anything I've induced myself and is likely to be accurate.

[Titus]

I've noticed a pattern this game where you keep trying to like...idk minimize the things I'm saying? And it's annoying me and also making me feel like you're trying to subtly derail my solving or at least stop people from listening to me. So you're probably picking up on that feeling from me. It's super contributing to me not being able to find you if you're town. And if you are town it makes me wonder if you just don't respect me very much as a player? That's insecurity but these are the thoughts that have been popping into my head every time I've interacted with you.

Who is this to? If this is me, I'm sorry.

[Thestatusquo]

I ask questions about small things because the small places are where people usually make mistakes. I thought that your statement about STD was maybe setting him up to fail because I honestly can't think of a reason you would expect more than "idk man vibes bad" from him. It felt like a reaction test where you were trying to provoke a reaction that you knew would come.

Thats why I was hyper focused in that specific spot. It matters to me what people do in the micro moments, that's where most of the game is played

@titus it was responding to klicks post directly before it, as is this.

[Klick]

Titus
DragonEater70
Dunnstral
Firebringer
Frozen Angel

Black
BlueSnakelet
Drixx
Thestatusquo

kuribo
Save The Dragons
Feysal

GuyInFreezer
Pink Ball

Pink Ball + GIF + probably one misclear?

What happened here to reduce DragonEater to voteable status?

we also had gif in the solve and then when there's a wagon on gif klick is nowhere to be found and votes the counter.

GIF has no content and a wagon on him doesn't accomplish anything. I want more from him and a wagon isn't going to impact that. I know nothing really significant about GIF's alignment but I think DragonEater is likely to be scum.

[Thestatusquo]

The wagon on him has literally already accomplished something.

[Titus]

Klick, which citation was your favorite in PB's case?

[Titus]

The wagon on him has literally already accomplished something.

This is true.

[Frozen Angel]

FA, are you asking for a readwall? I tend to read players in relation to each other. I no longer think DE was a wagon to save you. While it's a remote possibility, I would not expected to see the game stagnate with no one pushing that hard for either wagon (PB excluded but he was for DE).

GiF push was a meh it's possible, my townreads are okay with it and it got the game moving. We need 8 to lim and can't get above 4 because everyone has their pet project. It's like herding cats.

DE was my first real townread. If you look at the first 5 pages, I lay it out there.

nah not read wall, just like being pointed in directions so I can follow your thought process better.

I honestly don't see how what was in first 5 pages made you think they are almost "conf town" the way you treated them later on during game. though you retracted from that stance now at this time.

I understand your intention for getting some wagons going, I just am curios if there was more for the choices you had for wagoning than just that.

[Klick]

The wagon on him has literally already accomplished something.

It hasn't accomplished 'more content from GIF' which is the reason I'd join it at this stage