Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Klick]

Klick I'm reading this as you feeling a little defensive over where your vote is. I don't think you've directly engaged me much this game, if at all, so it feels off that you're doing it now that I'm shading the Dragon wagon

It's because I'm currently going through who would be likely scum with DragonEater if I raise the bar for my individual reads and you're someone who is high on my list of considerations

Your play around the DragonEater wagon feels strange to me

[Black]

Looks like I pissed Pink Ball off again

That's my queue to leave

[Dunnstral]

Do you think DragonEater is town?

Yes

OK so let's talk about this.

I looked through your iso a bit and to me I'm not seeing where you think this, instead it looks like you are making the claim that a lot of what DragonEater is doing is NAI or not that bad, but I'm not seeing reasons to jump to calling them town and I believe this is a new stance from you. So what makes you think they are town?

[Black]

Klick I'm reading this as you feeling a little defensive over where your vote is. I don't think you've directly engaged me much this game, if at all, so it feels off that you're doing it now that I'm shading the Dragon wagon

It's because I'm currently going through who would be likely scum with DragonEater if I raise the bar for my individual reads and you're someone who is high on my list of considerations

Your play around the DragonEater wagon feels strange to me

You're so sure in scum!DE that you're already looking for associatives? Why am I finding this hard to believe? What am I missing about this DE thing? Can you give me something longer than a tl;dr why you think he's scum or at least point me to a post where you explained it?

[Klick]

What about the fact that DragonEater hasn't responded to FA's case or to why they agreed with Klick's case on FA?

Or about how they seem to only do things when prodded to do so?

I mean if you want my honest answer I think the guy is busy af and not really committed to the game. But I'm not going to judge people for assuming his sparseness his wolf motivated, I'm just gonna think you're wrong

I don't think his optics atm are bad just because he's not saying much
He's not giving good responses to the pressure on him when he is around

[Black]

Do you think DragonEater is town?

Yes

OK so let's talk about this.

I looked through your iso a bit and to me I'm not seeing where you think this, instead it looks like you are making the claim that a lot of what DragonEater is doing is NAI or not that bad, but I'm not seeing reasons to jump to calling them town and I believe this is a new stance from you. So what makes you think they are town?

Mostly vibes and they way he's posting. And another big thing is I don't seem to find him scummy for his absence and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the main argument here aside from meta?

[Klick]

Klick I'm reading this as you feeling a little defensive over where your vote is. I don't think you've directly engaged me much this game, if at all, so it feels off that you're doing it now that I'm shading the Dragon wagon

It's because I'm currently going through who would be likely scum with DragonEater if I raise the bar for my individual reads and you're someone who is high on my list of considerations

Your play around the DragonEater wagon feels strange to me

You're so sure in scum!DE that you're already looking for associatives? Why am I finding this hard to believe? What am I missing about this DE thing? Can you give me something longer than a tl;dr why you think he's scum or at least point me to a post where you explained it?

I already said I was doing this in 2129?

I explained my DragonEater suspicion in 1966. It's not deeper than that. I am sheeping PB's reasoning because I think it is stronger than anything I have on Dragon or on anyone else really.

[Klick]

I don’t know, too much hypothetical cases to actually answer your question. I want a scum flip

How much confidence do you have in your own DragonEater scumread? Like how surprised would you be at a town flip?

Can't remember if you answered PB but it seems relevant to bring back up now that you've voted someone else.

[Dunnstral]

Not so much the absence but the fact that he's not responding to things and doesn't feel the need to do so. And like, DragonEater said they don't have the time or energy to properly analyze everything. OK... but it shouldn't take a lot of time or energy to respond to why they agreed with Klick about reading FA as mafia, for instance, unless they had to go back and make something up instead of giving their honest thoughts.

[Black]

He's not giving good responses to the pressure on him when he is around

I think I disagree here, unless there's some stuff I missed. I thought his initial reaction to PB felt genuine and then there was clear progression to thinking PB has a good point and unvoting him. I'm not sure scum walks that back in that manner

[Black]

Klick I'm reading this as you feeling a little defensive over where your vote is. I don't think you've directly engaged me much this game, if at all, so it feels off that you're doing it now that I'm shading the Dragon wagon

It's because I'm currently going through who would be likely scum with DragonEater if I raise the bar for my individual reads and you're someone who is high on my list of considerations

Your play around the DragonEater wagon feels strange to me

You're so sure in scum!DE that you're already looking for associatives? Why am I finding this hard to believe? What am I missing about this DE thing? Can you give me something longer than a tl;dr why you think he's scum or at least point me to a post where you explained it?

I already said I was doing this in 2129?

I explained my DragonEater suspicion in 1966. It's not deeper than that. I am sheeping PB's reasoning because I think it is stronger than anything I have on Dragon or on anyone else really.

I'm sorry, I still need to read the last 15 pages. I just felt like posting for a bit and the VC caught me off guard

[Black]

Not so much the absence but the fact that he's not responding to things and doesn't feel the need to do so. And like, DragonEater said they don't have the time or energy to properly analyze everything. OK... but it shouldn't take a lot of time or energy to respond to why they agreed with Klick about reading FA as mafia, for instance, unless they had to go back and make something up instead of giving their honest thoughts.

Isn't not responding to things part of not being here and not making time for the game? I agree this can be scummy but I don't think it is here

[Dunnstral]

He's not giving good responses to the pressure on him when he is around

I think I disagree here, unless there's some stuff I missed. I thought his initial reaction to PB felt genuine and then there was clear progression to thinking PB has a good point and unvoting him. I'm not sure scum walks that back in that manner

I'm taking a closer look at their reaction now. In post 1519 they said they hadn't liked Pink Ball all along and linked to post 391, which was posted 4 days before 1519. This sticks out to me because I find it hard to believe that this post stuck to their mind and I don't like the explanation here or the attempt to discredit Pink Ball by assigning other motivations without really responding to the point they were making at the time.

[Feysal]

Reading posts from last night.

About the three propositions, I have this to say.
1: Since scum know which amnesiac roles have been assigned to them, they should have no need to make up fake claims. Also, they will never know exactly which capabilities town has as the game progresses, because power roles may or may not have been assigned to dead players.
2: Scum will find out town roles sooner or later by having those roles assigned to them. And if they did know which protective roles the town had, how does one plan around a doctor anyway? Scum would need to look at killing less obvious town players, and is this not something we would want happening?
3: I fear this would lead to town amnesia, because by the time mass claim happens, many town members will no longer be alive to claim what their roles were. But scum would still know which roles their dead partners had. Also, scum would be able to make their claims more benign. Suppose for example that scum claims an action on a player who is perceived as scummy at the time. Later that player flips town, and now scum can claim they had protected said player, which makes them look better. I would like to hear people explaining the rationale of their actions right after they actually took them.

I have some mixed feelings about Klick that makes me wanna ISO dive him.

I have a couple observations to add here.

You said you thought it was odd that Klick did not join the GIF wagon. I find it odder that he would join the Dragon wagon because of Pink Ball's case, when he had listed Pink Ball as a scum read.

Another thing was that when Klick was supposedly reaction testing you, it felt like Klick and Shea acting in concert at the start, and Klick kept it going longer than would have been necessary, before suddenly turning the pressure off. As if a click of a button, pun intended. I'll need to reread this later.

FA, if you're still here, I'd like to discuss worlds with you.

I don't see DragonEater as scum unless it's with Drixx who is positioning to have his proposition go through and to remove criticism at the same time.

Not aimed at me, but I wanted you to get this notification too concerning what I wrote above.

And about Drixx, my town lean on him is not backed by much. If I had to look for bussing scum on the Dragon wagon, I would be looking at him. Assuming he even survives until tomorrow, since he has painted a target on his back with his hints.

[Black]

So the Dragon thing is meta + not being around/not answering questions well

I'm not seeing it, but I don't have the energy to break this wagon down, and my TR on Dragon isn't strong enough to do much convincing

I also TR Klick (though a little less than I used to) so I don't even like the cw

[Black]

@Dunn - I'm just not seeing anything concrete and substantial here. It feels like you and Klick are pretty confident in your vote though. At least confident enough to defend it

[GuyInFreezer]

VOTE: Firebringer
I really don't enjoy their entrance and I dare say it's possibly scummy.

What questions do you like specifically? And tell me why you liked them.

All three in their first three posts. And because each of them seemed aimed at trying to read a different player.

I just read those posts, and I actually disagree, those questions are soooo meh it kinda feels like scum blending in.

VOTE: Dunn

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

Also on rethinking of the Dunn v FB, I think that Dunn's vote was justified. On the other hand, FB's scumcase is based on something that IS scummy on Dunn's part, but could easily be pushed by scum and therefore doesn't warrant a TR on FB.
Therefore I am no longer TRing FB for pushing Dunn, and am gonna probably vote FB (after I finish the catchup).
For noe though I'll UNVOTE:

@Feysal, I read your case on FB and I agree that their push on Dunn is scummy.
VOTE: Firebringer

This progression is what I found to be really bad.

If this was the string of posts you mentioned, DE did similar thing as town in demon slayer where he went “oh I changed my mind after reread” after his opinion got challenged. So no I don’t see this as a reason to scumread him. I’ve been there before.

[Black]

I don’t know, too much hypothetical cases to actually answer your question. I want a scum flip

How much confidence do you have in your own DragonEater scumread? Like how surprised would you be at a town flip?

Can't remember if you answered PB but it seems relevant to bring back up now that you've voted someone else.

I'm getting a sinking feeling that you sheeping PB's meta case is more of an opportunistic play, and you bringing this back up is an attempt to keep PB on course with the wagon

But I can also see it as you don't want to sheep him if he's not very confident in his read. But in that case I'm not sure why you wouldn't have made him answer this before now

[Thestatusquo]

Pink ball isn't even voting dragon anymore.

[Black]

Pink ball isn't even voting dragon anymore.

What is this in response to? He was voting Dragon until 30 minutes ago

[Thestatusquo]

It seems weird to me that the people who are supposedly sheeping pink ball have not even brought it up.

And he wasn't. He revoted yesterday after not being on dragon for a while.

[Thestatusquo]

Actually i just did an iso skim and i appear to be wrong about that second part. I could have swore he voted someone else.

[Thestatusquo]

I retract everything. I thought pb was on the gif wagon but he definitely never was.

[Dunnstral]

BRO

Go ask LLD if she buys Kuribo claim for one hot minute. I want her take on this.

Spoiler:

I talked with LLD and Petapan. They do not believe the claim. They say that it breaks the game by potentially clearing 4 players on day 2. Petapan says that the most likely explanation regardless of Kuribo's alignment is that this is a gambit.

[Black]

I don't like that Klick is already looking for Dragon's scum partners. Maybe if he was more confident in the DE thing but I don't get a sense that he is. Idk, this just feels like it's for show