TM 2023 | Mini Normal | Endgame

[Ydrasse]

feeling less horrid today and done with being the worst ghost hunter in the world hello

[Ydrasse]

epic pagetop

[Ausuka]

Koba why is dgb so high

because dgb is an easy read, skill issue

wow thanks very helpful

personally I think it looked pretty bad when she called me scum with a reason and when i explained the incorrect interpretation *then* she voted me as a 'sheep'. it looked like a blatantly unnatural interaction trying to hide behind shirou. Datisi also called dgb scum for this if you will take that seriously. what about her meta makes that so towny

[Ausuka]

(I will respond to italiano later)

[DkKoba]

Koba why is dgb so high

because dgb is an easy read, skill issue

wow thanks very helpful

personally I think it looked pretty bad when she called me scum with a reason and when i explained the incorrect interpretation *then* she voted me as a 'sheep'. it looked like a blatantly unnatural interaction trying to hide behind shirou. Datisi also called dgb scum for this if you will take that seriously. what about her meta makes that so towny

i dont read dgb based on its read accuracy tbf

[Ausuka]

Ok well what if you die and then DGB is town and I and maybe other people are suspicious of her

Are you not worried about that

[DkKoba]

also datisi is a chronic omguser, opinion (lightly) discarded on that unless substantiated with more than "called me scum in a way i dont like"

[Ydrasse]

Votecount 1.14

Ausuka (4):

ItalianoVD, Shirou, Aisa, DrippingGoofball

ItalianoVD (3):

Ausuka, DeasVail, DkKoba

DkKoba (2):

mastina, Kowahbunga

Shirou (1):

Malakittens

DeasVail (1):

xofelf

Not Voting (2): Arko, Ydrasse

With 13 alive it takes 7 to eliminate.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-26 08:34:25)

Mod Notes

VOTE: arko

good chance at flipping scum.

I'd be down for a Mastina & a KOBA wagon as well.

VOTE: arko

good chance at flipping scum.

I'd be down for a Mastina & a KOBA wagon as well.

I can actually get on board with this.

VOTE: Arko

Italiano FEELS very scum to me but I think I need some time to stew on that. Arko on the other hand feels classically like scum trying to keep up with the game but not really succeeding. The content posts, particularly 650 make it seem like Arko has pretended to be up to date with the game, but on more closely inspecting Arko's post, much more likely is that he's just looked at a few vote counts and random posts in isolation and developed ~content~ from there. He comments on me as a wagon, which I realised was because xofelf was voting me, but actually reading the game would reveal that xofelf... didn't actually think I was scum. Multiple times he references something along the lines of "needing more work from both sides of the wagon" which I'm not sure is much more than just empty words.
I think town in this position wouldn't... pretend to have real game-relevant thoughts to the degree that Arko has here.

Wait... Arko only has 14 posts? I knew it was low, but not like that. he also hasn't posted since Thursday. Feels a little something that in 341 he calls Kowahbunga out for being V/LA but posting elsewhere on site and in that same post promises to come back after doing stuff and we don't see him for 2 days. There's more apologies in this iso than content, which like, i know i can be guilty of sometimes but i find it harder to get away with doing that here in Team Mafia where I have teammates. Like if it's just me, I can justify posting less to the point of prodging most of the time, but my team needs me so here I am. Maybe Arko's team dynamics is different but it feels a type of way.
Gonna poke some at the updated list:

Xof- Felt towny but is just as here as I was 2 hours ago. AKA gone for 2 days and I was sleeping.

Before that post Arko hadn't been on site since post 341 and came back in post 504/623, with big content in 650. I had had 7 post between 341 and 504, a fair bit of few with content so saying I wasn't here at all is just provably incorrect.

Shirou is there I guess. Imma say town but could change easily.

By Shirou is there, is the implication that Shirou doesn't post??? cuz buddy, have i got some news for you. Shirou currently has the most posts with over 200 in this thread, 6 of which were on the page Arko was popping in on as he did his update read. Again, provably false.

The only real content before he gets into the wagons, is the "thoughts" shared from teammates, of which there is one about Koba and nothing else. The rest of the update is just blanket statement of change, but not what prompted the change. But also, there being *little* that changed feels funky.
But the wagon thoughts are just.. not at all looked into.
Mala's wagon has a comment about the amount of votes not really making it a wagon(which the most recent votecount before the post had only 1 vote on Mala), but *most* of the people who had votes only had 1, so why that comment here? And my vote on DV was from RVS which 5 seconds checking could have cleared up. The only strong opinion was about Italiano votes. Like yeah it looks like this post took them an hour from the initial "i'm here and reading" but I'm not really sure what that time was spent on because there's so much little here.

Last thing Arko said before dipping for 2 more days was a probably would iso Ausuka, but there was tons of time and he wasn't particularly worried. I dislike this more than I currently dislike Italiano(he's on a bit of an upswing here) so,
VOTE: Arko

But I also would really like some mastina and Aisa posts. I'm not sure what to think about mastina and would like more from her, and Aisa has had good thoughts presented in a way I like reading so I just want more of that.

It's the second time Aisa tries to wagon me but I'm still ok with her slot

so uh, I just passed out for half an hour. Well close to, 1:53 to 2:18.

But wanted to say, not confident in Aisa town.

Something's wrong with me rn, badly wrong, so can't finish rn, sorry.

Will do this tho

VOTE: Arko

Would prefer to be better read, not happy with the woagn, but...
...idk, can't excist right now.

i know that arko is a "low info" slot by virtue of his posts but it's kind of fascinating that the ausuka wagon pops up and then we have the arko one like, competing with it like this and then the italiano one is kind of there (and disintegrates a little bit because dv leaves the wagon)

[ItalianoVD]

So yeah, I think Arko is more likely to flip scum here than Italiano, but between Arko and Italiano, I may vote Italiano to hedge on me being wrong + making sure Ausuka/Koba is gonna get in heat tomorrow if he's town.

I mean obviously I'm not trying to get killed Day 1, but Arko is very meh for me and it seems it's that way for everyone. I could vote there, but he is one of my weaker scumreads and I agree that it's not gonna really tell us anything. It'll be hard to find scum on his wagon regardless of what he flips because he's very bussable as scum and very compromise-y as town so no one will go after any of his voters should he flip town and won't know who bussed should he flip scum. It is a conundrum, but one we may have to accept should it come to that.

Also, I've never minded dying if it made sense, I'm just not trying to die for stupid or pointless reasons. In the end I'm part of a team and if it requires a sacrifice to put the team in a better position I'm always down for it regardless of alignment. If my elimination helps give the town better direction or clear up some associatives then I'm down for it.

[ItalianoVD]

For now

UNVOTE:

[Ausuka]

i know that arko is a "low info" slot by virtue of his posts but it's kind of fascinating that the ausuka wagon pops up and then we have the arko one like, competing with it like this and then the italiano one is kind of there (and disintegrates a little bit because dv leaves the wagon)

Fascinating is a fascinating word to use here but I'm not sure what you're trying to say?

[Ydrasse]

okay so like i'm going to cat out of the bag, i'm in the neighborhood with mastina and italiano and dgb. i think that everyone is in a neighborhood this game so like Whatever. sorry mastina please don't yell at me for sharing this but i feel atp the info is needed

in the neighborhood italiano said that he wanted to trust it to be all town so he could block together which understandable everyone wants a masonry

but then italiano made this list soon after:

Alright so I'm given my readslist. Obviously subject to change, but this is where my head is currently.

Aisa
Malakittens
Shirou
Ydrasse
DkKoba

Mastina
DeasVail

Kowahbunga

Xofelf

Arko

DrippingGoofball

Ausuka

green

- strong townlean

blue

- medium townlean

yellow

- weak townlean

white

- null

orange

- weak scumlean

pink

- medium scumlean

red

- strong scumlean

which is like. idk. i have had a lot of mixed feelings about this since then because like. i feel like if you have the sentiment of "hope this is town we can bloc together" you dont call another person in there useless if you wanna foster trust (but then he apologizes so maybe frustration)? i see like one moment in his iso where he's asking about mastina and dgb and he wants my response to these reads and my opinion and i assumed those were the ones he cared about but i don't feel like he's been... occupied with solving those two as much as he should if he wants it to be all town neighborhood?


he's on the defensive most of the game but it just feels like a big ? to me so idk. i do feel some consistence in that he wants it to be town that i think is towny when he posts 891 which also is like, he is still following up on stuff and not letting it go when he asks me questions. but also the explanation of the reads is kind of questionable to me even if i don't inherently disagree with some conclusions (shirou is probably the biggest point here because it's like YEAH not a wolf unless super skilled wolf but he doesn't show any curiosity towards his like, ability as a player which i feel is the natural progression of that thought). i dont have a strong conclusion but i feel like this is probably the time to share this

also i think mastina is town because of something she did in the neighborhood as well so i agree with him on that even if his read isn't as strong as mine i think. (it doesn't help mastina has honed in on me town a lot lol)

[Ydrasse]

i know that arko is a "low info" slot by virtue of his posts but it's kind of fascinating that the ausuka wagon pops up and then we have the arko one like, competing with it like this and then the italiano one is kind of there (and disintegrates a little bit because dv leaves the wagon)

Fascinating is a fascinating word to use here but I'm not sure what you're trying to say?

i've been trying to word this properly for a moment but fascinating is the best word that comes to mind because i feel like this is the first point in the game that there's an actual choice to make between wagons rather than just throwing a vote down on a 2-person one and then nothing happens

for you i'm going off of 864 because it has direct reference to your reads and the people voting you but from your pov as i understand it you seem fairly lukewarm on most of the people voting arko rn or no stance, including on arko himself. does like a wagon suddenly popping up to oppose yours (assuming youre town) help strengthen your read on any of these people?

for me i feel as if that wagon is the "stronger" one in that i've had or had (!) townreads on everyone on it thus far but i've also thought that arko was sounding a little towny at some point, but i'm still inclined to join it because of the people on it and my arko read being tonal more than anything (also i think it was DV who made a good point? about his reads looking like they're based on just vcs more than him thinking about the game). the only other thing is that i know that it is not the preferred one for some ppl because arko may not be with us much longer but >_>

[Shirou]

plus you are loudly trying to steer the game into 2 townies

What are you even talking about? I'm trying to steer the game into Ausuka vs Italiano and if Ausuka flips town I would consider voting Italiano in D2.

You town read Ausuka but suspects Italiano, me the contrary, so no, I want us to solve what we respectively each consider to be a SvT or TvS situation. By this point I think you're more likely town than not, I still dislike Mala though.

Me vs You was a offhanded comment in one post as an example of me finding resolving any tensions in the game to be more worthwhile in D1 than wagoning a slot about to be replaced.

[ItalianoVD]

I was looking to see how the Arko wagon started and Mala started the wagon, DeasVail joined, then Xofelf, and finally Mastina.

VC is:

Arko (4): Mala, DeasVail, Xofelf, Mastina
Ausuka (3): Shirou, Aisa, DGB
Italiano (2): Ausuka, DkKoba
DkKoba (1): Kowahbunga

The wagon literally came out of nowhere, but I honestly don't know how to feel about it yet. Thoughts from others?

[ItalianoVD]

To clarify, three of my townreads are voting there and one scumread, it's not doing anything to me readswise, it's just interesting how it formed.

[Ydrasse]

im being trolled

[ItalianoVD]

Who's trolling you?

[Ydrasse]

.

[DkKoba]

okay so like i'm going to cat out of the bag, i'm in the neighborhood with mastina and italiano and dgb. i think that everyone is in a neighborhood this game so like Whatever. sorry mastina please don't yell at me for sharing this but i feel atp the info is needed

in the neighborhood italiano said that he wanted to trust it to be all town so he could block together which understandable everyone wants a masonry

but then italiano made this list soon after:

Alright so I'm given my readslist. Obviously subject to change, but this is where my head is currently.

Aisa
Malakittens
Shirou
Ydrasse
DkKoba

Mastina
DeasVail

Kowahbunga

Xofelf

Arko

DrippingGoofball

Ausuka

green

- strong townlean

blue

- medium townlean

yellow

- weak townlean

white

- null

orange

- weak scumlean

pink

- medium scumlean

red

- strong scumlean

which is like. idk. i have had a lot of mixed feelings about this since then because like. i feel like if you have the sentiment of "hope this is town we can bloc together" you dont call another person in there useless if you wanna foster trust (but then he apologizes so maybe frustration)? i see like one moment in his iso where he's asking about mastina and dgb and he wants my response to these reads and my opinion and i assumed those were the ones he cared about but i don't feel like he's been... occupied with solving those two as much as he should if he wants it to be all town neighborhood?

he's on the defensive most of the game but it just feels like a big ? to me so idk. i do feel some consistence in that he wants it to be town that i think is towny when he posts 891 which also is like, he is still following up on stuff and not letting it go when he asks me questions. but also the explanation of the reads is kind of questionable to me even if i don't inherently disagree with some conclusions (shirou is probably the biggest point here because it's like YEAH not a wolf unless super skilled wolf but he doesn't show any curiosity towards his like, ability as a player which i feel is the natural progression of that thought). i dont have a strong conclusion but i feel like this is probably the time to share this

also i think mastina is town because of something she did in the neighborhood as well so i agree with him on that even if his read isn't as strong as mine i think. (it doesn't help mastina has honed in on me town a lot lol)

wow italiano calling people town then shading them i wonder where i've seen this one before

[Shirou]

im just so burnt out of that kind of playstyle that I just don't want to deal with it, so asking you kindly, post less thx.

That's not asking kindly, you still have a bit of the ironic smug tone.

When I felt like I was overwhelming a bit too much Ausuka/the thread I voluntarily toned down on my push, but you keep disrespecting me, talking down to me, or trying to boss me in some way and it obviously doesn't work in your favor, not to mention I reply in the same vein.

The person that probably knows me the most has never had any of those problems in half a decade we've known each other simply because she knows how to be polite with me even when the subject/topic/content is absolutely rude.

I do not accept to be bossed around if it's not work-related/for a grand purpose.

Period

.

However, I often go along with people when they ask me sincerely something/a favor.

[Ydrasse]

to be fair i dont think that he was calling them town so much as he said he WANTED them to be town but i don't think that he has put in i guess as much work as he could have to reach those conclusions? : ?

[DeasVail]

You only had a problem with those two because you townread them which is fair, but from looking at your list below, we didn't/don't really differ in townreads and seeing how low DGB and Arko is neither did we differ that much on scumleans, so I guess instead of asking about why those, my real question is why do you scumread me? What is your case and why is it that you are so adamant about it and seemingly so confident (tunnelly) about it?

Is there a reason you were referencing my most recent reads list instead of the one I made closer to the time of the reads list I questioned you on?

I ask you questions first. Mind getting to those first? I can answer afterwards.

On my read of you: I don’t have anything to say right now beyond what I have already, but I plan on a re-evaluation sometime before my next shift (currently working nights so time is a bit topsy turvy) and I expect that there will be quite a bit more then.

As for the other stuff, I didn’t think I had been particularly adamant or tunnelly. I also remember you saying something along the lines of that I locked on to you early and didn’t let go, but I don’t think that’s really true because I only started suspecting you after your AtE (for lack of a better term)

[Shirou]

@DKkoba

I feel like you think my issue with you is because you claim to be the better player, and it's really not. I've openly praised/recognized other players as better than me before and I don't mind it if they were here telling me they're better so their reads are probably right/mine wrong.

The reason you're butting heads with me is because of your

attitude

towards me.

You talk to me from a place of authority rather than politeness/sincerity and it backfires. You may be the better player reads-wise perhaps, I haven't seen you as town before, but so far it seems that when we butt heads I win the better position.

If you're town and also believe I'm town, if you're right about your reads and I'm wrong, this game gets a lot easier if you try to work with me rather than trying to go against me.

Because In fact, I

do

want to work with you if you're town

[Shirou]

I think people that know me personally would consider me a weird type of "push-over" in fact.

Where if you try to confront me directly it's not gonna work well for you but if you know how to ask me for it I'll often play along.

A big part of the reason scum!Meuh pocketed me so hard and got to endgame was because...well, she was nice to me while I felt attacked in the main thread post-MariaR flip. I had some doubts about her slot before but it made me go "eh why bother before the last day".