So let's say there are like 3-4 scum on this wagon
Feysal's town
I know I'm town but consider me if you want
What are scum doing?
I think FA and Titus (and arguably even Drixx) are the most natural places to look for scum on this wagon, if you feel like the buildup of votes itself had more of a town push to it then they're the ones least associated with the actual buildup of votes
Whereas optically I'd say Feysal/Klick/Dunn/Firebringer/Pink Ball were all votes that came at a time when the DragonEater wagon was becoming a *wagon*
You’re putting Pink Ball in the group of “wagon hopper?”
The one that you sheeped that long case of?
Was going to point out the same: my vote at EoD doesn’t reflect the real position of my vote, it should be considered at first or second vote
So let's say there are like 3-4 scum on this wagon
Feysal's town
I know I'm town but consider me if you want
What are scum doing?
I think FA and Titus (and arguably even Drixx) are the most natural places to look for scum on this wagon, if you feel like the buildup of votes itself had more of a town push to it then they're the ones least associated with the actual buildup of votes
Whereas optically I'd say Feysal/Klick/Dunn/Firebringer/Pink Ball were all votes that came at a time when the DragonEater wagon was becoming a *wagon*
You’re putting Pink Ball in the group of “wagon hopper?”
The one that you sheeped that long case of?
I don't think PB is a 'wagon hopper' and I'm not sure how I implied that
I think Pink Ball's case made the DE wagon an actual viable wagon instead of an idea and that's why I consider him an actual influence on the flow of the VC
In post 4000, Pink Ball wrote:
Was going to point out the same: my vote at EoD doesn’t reflect the real position of my vote, it should be considered at first or second vote
I believe at the time you voted you were like vote #4 on DE or something? I can verify
I made the statement about you specifically keeping that in mind and considering you as early rather than late
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
'Early voters' who were on him basically all day {FA, Drixx, Feysal}
'Momentum voters' who voted at the time that momentum was shifting, starting with PB's case on DragonEater {Klick, Dunn, Firebringer}
And then you have Titus who hammered and wasn't really associated with the actual build-up of the wagon and said DragonEater was town
Pink Ball sort of fits into both main categories in that he was an early voter but also heavily influenced the momentum of the wagon
It's not a distinction I thought very hard about because I think PB is town anyway
If you want to more accurately define PB's position on the wagon that's fine, I didn't really mean to misrepresent it
In post 4006, Klick wrote:
It's not a distinction I thought very hard about
Or more accurately, I didn't think very hard about fitting in PB accurately in my post
I did think a fair bit about how he actually fit into that setup but when I didn't have a clean answer for PI I just stuck him in the momentum group
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
Will think on this more later. Firebringer's role already went off and can't be retroactively roleblocked but I guess the two players they have targeted can be. And there is no way for those two players to know who each other are without claiming. (And no guarantee that those players are even town)
I kinda wonder if my “you misunderstood my one post” and “hi I played house flipper” was enough for him to unvote me there.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
Will think on this more later. Firebringer's role already went off and can't be retroactively roleblocked but I guess the two players they have targeted can be. And there is no way for those two players to know who each other are without claiming. (And no guarantee that those players are even town)
I kinda wonder if my “you misunderstood my one post” and “hi I played house flipper” was enough for him to unvote me there.
The misunderstanding undermined my whole point in my other post
I wasn't a wagon at the end of day 1. Titus is acting like I was. Titus almost always does VCA as town... here she hasn't even looked at the vote count, and instead of doing VCA she posts "*points to VCs at end of d1*" and is wrong about it.
Went to look at this after seeing the above post by Dunn. I apologise if getting into who viable wagons were on D1 disrupts the conversation you're having with Titus Dunn, but I'm now rather interested in what the game was doing outside of the DragonEater wagon.
Who joins the GIF wagon?: kuribo, Shea, Titus, STD
Who joins the Klick wagon?: kuribo, STD, Titus, Shea
Who joins the Black wagon?: Pink Ball, GIF, Firebringer, Titus
Who leaves these wagons to end the day on DragonEater?: Firebringer, Pink Ball, Titus
I am presuming there are at least 2 scum off-wagon when the main DragonEater wagon when it was at 5 votes (unless we're looking at exactly FA/Drixx/Dunnstral/X, which I don't think is the case)
And so there are at least two scum off-wagon at that point, giving us something to analyse.
And so my question is, what are scum off-wagon doing based on how the game as a whole is playing out? How are they playing around this big constant wagon on town? They aren't joining it, they're pushing other things, but presumably they're completely fine with a DragonEater wagon going through because he's town.
I find it notable that the GIF wagon died relatively quickly, but I find it even more interesting that the GIF wagon and the Klick wagon are comprised of the exact same four players. When GIF didn't pick up steam, the players who put a vote down on GIF all decided they should put a vote down on Klick instead.
I find it very likely that there's at least one scum in that group of STD/Titus/Shea(/kuribo) (and the theory that fits with my reads is that there's two scum in that group). I think scum would be looking to start a town counterwagon to the primary mislim target and that the movement onto GIF and then onto me shortly after had scum influence. (I don't really think the pop-up wagon on GIF in the first place has many implications for GIF's alignment in and of itself, because I could see motivation for that wagon to be either on town or on scum. But I do feel that scum were on the wagon regardless of GIF's alignment.)
I typed out a few thoughts about the Black wagon and end of day, but they didn't really lead to anything interesting compared to the above. Black wagon formed from all different areas of the previous VC, and then dissolved to hammer DragonEater. I think these are both things that scum would feel *ambivalent* about all things considered and they may or may not have participated.
Overall, I mainly think that scum who were off the DragonEater wagon had an interest in *staying* off of the DragonEater wagon, and therefore they kept themselves occupied doing different things. I think something in particular they kept themselves occupied with was voting GIF, then myself. I think {STD, Shea, Titus} contains 1-2 scum (my reads say 2).
In post 3984, Firebringer wrote:
I would like Black to send caterer role to FA cause i think that actually helps sort the game alot if i know FA is town instead of me waffling on her super hard
Black can't announce her target without allowing scum a fair amount of room to play around her role
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
Firebringer scum reading me when I scum read me is cute but I kinda think its what town him would do.
The real question is is he self aware enough to know that and duplicate it.
Probably, I guess.
This wagon talk is exactly why I'm extremely dubious of VCA as a general rule. Klick's analysis is predicated on him being town which I think is a pretty dubious assumption.
In post 4023, Thestatusquo wrote:This wagon talk is exactly why I'm extremely dubious of VCA as a general rule. Klick's analysis is predicated on him being town which I think is a pretty dubious assumption.
You would be dubious of it even if didn't assume I was town because it came from someone you're dubious of being town.
Do you have any other problems with it?
