Mini Normal 2299 | Postgame [Village win]

[Hu Tao]

Hello.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Hi. Our names kinda rhyme LMAO

[Hu Tao]

Meow uwu

I remember half of this list.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Same

[Hu Tao]

Hi folks

Working away at the moment so nothing big until later

VOTE: Emperor

You'll take part in RVS and you'll enjoy it or else

Does emperor notoriously hate RVS or something?

[Hu Tao]

He doesn’t care for it from what I hear

Personally I'm indifferent

[Hu Tao]

DEB better get his ass in here pronto.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Seems like an overreaction. But maybe this was a joke

[Hu Tao]

wait can there even be traitors in a werewolf game

wiki page says they must be mafia aligned
which precludes them being werewolf

In the site I'm familiar with traitors are only with mafia not werewolf. I'm not sure how it works here. Either way, I hate traitors I hope there isn't one

[Hu Tao]

Anyways, the clause about Scorched Earth. I don't believe I have seen it before. Is it a modslip that there is some kind of extra kill power role in the game?

Possibly. But I think it's another phrase for forcing nk/no elims.

[Hu Tao]

Enchant replaces DragonEater70.

Let's goooooooo

[Hu Tao]

i would love to get out of rvs so i can actually do useful stuff

but i have not seen anything i can really use to do so yet
all i have is a town read on flavor leaf

p-edit
someone claimed wolf with another person
which is 2 people
and i somehow decided that meant it was a claim of only 2 scum in the team instead of the more logical but still joking assumption that they were just not claiming their entire team

Why is flavor town here

[Hu Tao]

I like RVS because I can vote myself and not get turbo-yeeted for it.

VOTE: Alianna

VOTE: Alianna

[Hu Tao]

see the thing is

i know i am not going to survive to the end of the game
so i do not need people to really town read me
i just need to not be scum read until i can figure out the game and get good reads on people before i do get flipped

Do you get voted out early a lot or something?

[Hu Tao]

That made me realize something.

i would love to get out of rvs so i can actually do useful stuff

but i have not seen anything i can really use to do so yet
all i have is a town read on flavor leaf

p-edit
someone claimed wolf with another person
which is 2 people
and i somehow decided that meant it was a claim of only 2 scum in the team instead of the more logical but still joking assumption that they were just not claiming their entire team

This line in particular (along with 110) is making me do a double take. LAMIST vibes.

In combination with what you've pointed out, I think it's actually kind of sus.

VOTE: Theta Alpine

It does look very theatrical, which is why I had to get clarification from them

[Hu Tao]

I most likely will not participate on mechanical talk. That stuff bores me y’all

Then why not talk about the actual scumread alianna gave a reason for?

[Hu Tao]

I agree that Theta is LAMISTy. But I'll refrain from voting them for now.

Why?

UNVOTE:

[Hu Tao]

There's the game-advancement.

Kinda weird how your vote is solely on me for a naked vote, but you haven't called out Hu Tao or Dr Drew on the same page.

What was my naked vote? If you're talking about the alianna vote it was a meme vote which I unvoted, which I thought was obvious.

[Hu Tao]

I agree that Theta is LAMISTy. But I'll refrain from voting them for now.

Why?

UNVOTE:

Why LAMIST or why refrain? Former is me just sheeping the case, latter is because I don't like piling votes this early.

I meant voting. But this early do you think someone will get voted out? Not sure what you mean by piling votes. Isn't it good for your susread to get pressure early?

[Hu Tao]

i would love to get out of rvs so i can actually do useful stuff

but i have not seen anything i can really use to do so yet
all i have is a town read on flavor leaf

p-edit
someone claimed wolf with another person
which is 2 people
and i somehow decided that meant it was a claim of only 2 scum in the team instead of the more logical but still joking assumption that they were just not claiming their entire team

Why is flavor town here

flavor leaf town, else he would have posted already

you fr?

Do you have experience with Theta? I assumed this reply was a joke but if they are not the joking type then it's a bad post for sure

[Hu Tao]

I most likely will not participate on mechanical talk. That stuff bores me y’all

Then why not talk about the actual scumread alianna gave a reason for?

I don’t have much faith in a “real” scum read before page 6

So.. complaining just to complain basically.

[Hu Tao]

Peaches. Get your peaches.

Hi bestie. What did you think so far of the game?

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Theta Alpine pressure vote

VOTE: kitty

In my experience people posting their reason for voting like this is scum rather than town. Basically looking for approval.

[Hu Tao]

But if you say your vote is for pressure, target knows it's for pressure, and can ignore pressure and will not feel to be pressured, therefore making pressure vote is not actually pressuring.

Mind melting

[Hu Tao]

But if you say your vote is for pressure, target knows it's for pressure, and can ignore pressure and will not feel to be pressured, therefore making pressure vote is not actually pressuring.

A Kitty wagon would be intriguing.

People seeing what I see makes me happy

[Hu Tao]

But if you say your vote is for pressure, target knows it's for pressure, and can ignore pressure and will not feel to be pressured, therefore making pressure vote is not actually pressuring.

The WIFOM game is able to be analyzed later in the game, though. It’s like a feeling each other out kinda thing

Is that really WIFOM though?

[Hu Tao]

Dr Drew sussy if Theta scum btw.

Why

[Hu Tao]

There's the game-advancement.

Kinda weird how your vote is solely on me for a naked vote, but you haven't called out Hu Tao or Dr Drew on the same page.

What was my naked vote? If you're talking about the alianna vote it was a meme vote which I unvoted, which I thought was obvious.

Yeah, they didn't call you out on it. A meme vote on page 6 doesn't push us out of RVS at all, but Theta instead went for an OMGUS vote on me rather than holding to account 2 people who didn't do something on that page to help push us out.

Given that they themselves said that they want to get out of RVS so that they can develop reads, it seems to be a contradiction that they'll go after someone trying to advance the gamestate over someone who on the same page didn't advance it.

I'd encourage more votes on Theta at present.

That's fair. I think it wasn't too big of a deal though. It's possible they thought my vote was real? Can't really speak for them though.

[Hu Tao]

Peaches. Get your peaches.

Hi bestie. What did you think so far of the game?

I have some thoughts, but I'm purposefully staying behind the lines for a minute because when I vote somewhere, the game's gonna likely lean that direction. It'll be hard for me to get natural reads in a bit.

There's definitely some I'm leaning scum right now.

This lines up to what I expected you to say

[Hu Tao]

I read some of what Theta's saying as town, but at the same time most of it feels NAI. Should be able to determine my thoughts on them as the game goes on.

What in Theta's posts were you reading as town?

I'd also like to know this answer

[Hu Tao]

I will say, I do feel like Aliana is town here.

Mew I feel like might not be town.

I agree with both of these. We seem to be on the same page so far

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Theta Alpine pressure vote

Last time I did something similar to this I got a lot of flack for it, looks like that's what's also happening this game.

Why not vote them then?

[Hu Tao]

I don’t think Theta’s been scummy at all personally

I wouldn't say outright scummy but they have had some posts that seem questionable

[Hu Tao]

Theta pings me a bit, but like
I probably am giving Delta a bit of a pass since I am not familiar with them at all, that and I have some noob vibes from them.

Was it just him coming after you?

I don't like the open implication of noob vibes here. It kind of feels like it's something that could be used in days to come to discredit me and any arguments I make, which I find quite... off.

Would appreciate you recanting this statement tbh.

Ninja'd: I still think Theta is the one we should take off the board today tbh.

I feel like you just keep posting that. What are your other reads?

[Hu Tao]

I like RVS because I can vote myself and not get turbo-yeeted for it.

VOTE: Alianna

Can you explain the thought process behind how this self-vote is productive?

I mean... it was clearly a joke.

[Hu Tao]

Well hello.

Hello!

[Hu Tao]

Quick thoughts, the Theta/Delta thing is odd. Theta coming off a little OMGUS but then Delta jumped on them for consistency. Delta’s side seems to be the weaker of the two which coupled with Theta’s behaviour around their game history is leaning me towards Delta being the scummier. Could just as easily just be a bit of a mutual villager tunnel though.

Drew I’m leaning town just based on behaviours in our last game together, it’s early though and he subbed into that game iirc so we’ll see how that goes.

I’ll be back with more, hopefully. We will see.

I'm thinking Drew could be town just because they seem to be thinking like me.

Could you explain the delta read a bit more? Not sure I understand what makes his side weaker

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Mew

I like this vote

[Hu Tao]

Sorry guys i didn't made up excuse, and probably won't do anything tomorrow.

I doubt it's because of team mafia. All we need is flashwagon.

[Hu Tao]

I still don't get the delta votes

[Hu Tao]

Im caught up. Funnily enough id be fine with any of the 3 leading wagons being limmed at this stage. 3 scummiest players in the game id say.

Flavorleaf i didnt like at first but his softclaim and posting style has won me over so he is my biggest town read.

I also think dr drew feels town here.

Hu tao and bristep can be town leans too.

What have I done for you to think I could be town?

[Hu Tao]

We only have 22 hours left for day one?? Why did this go so fast?? I'll be available before deadline but I'm fine with Mew leaving.

[Hu Tao]

Hell yeah, 3 people targeted Bulge last night.

I'm a Multitasking JOAT with a Watcher ability and a Tracker-Finder ability.

I targeted Bulge with my Watch and got 2 names back, and I targeted Doctor Drew with the other, he is not Tracker.

So we gonna do a fun little trust game.

Gonna need everyone to claim 'I did not target Bulge' or 'I targeted Bulge with a _____ action'

Fill in the blank with your action please.

Nice! I did not target Bulge. But I thought JOAT roles are one per night? But I guess it's different on this site

[Hu Tao]

Firstly, what on earth was that Mew wagon - can someone explain that for me?

I don't recall there being much anti-Mew sentiment so for them to just get so suddenly offed was pretty awful. I'd wager good money that scum is on the wagon there.

Second - I think doing what Flavour suggested is daft. I don't buy it.

This is your first reaction to all of that? Seriously?
Sus on Delta

[Hu Tao]

I'm town and I happen to think your claim is bollocks and frankly I think it's more likely to be a PR-hunting exercise than anything else.

Your explanation would hold up if I was under any real pressure yesterday but I wasn't? By trying to paint me as scummy and coming out with poor theorycrafting after a claim which is unsubstantiated and a pretty quirky claim at that, even the three people you point at for voting me including yourself never really campaigned that hard for my lim when they were on my wagon, from memory.

Rather than asking everyone to go through some pointless exercise - why don't you just say who visited and we lim between them for what will at worst be a 50/50. You said you have names.

Ninja'd: why are we playing Flavour's game here? Like I just don't see why you're blindly following it - if they clicked their fingers and ask would you leap off a cliff too?

Because we have confirmed scum in one of the names?

[Hu Tao]

The Mew wagon developed stupid quick with people just hopping on with what felt like very little progression - do you not agree?

There was less than a day left at the end of the wagon. That's why

[Hu Tao]

Agreed

[Hu Tao]

I'm not even sure what's even happening right now. Is there a guilty or no? We are waiting on theta? If no guilty I'm planning on voting delta when this is over

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Enchant

Fine with this

[Hu Tao]

Good work FL! And I agree with there possibly being a traitor. My question is what is traitor meta here on this site? Would traitor really bring up being it being a traitor game early?

[Hu Tao]

Hey. Im a jailkeeper. Figured id claim since the enabler died. Not sure how common a cross alignment enabler is. Im vanilla now obviously.

I think you shouldn't have outed

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: delta

Think I'm okay with this for now

[Hu Tao]

Hey. Im a jailkeeper. Figured id claim since the enabler died. Not sure how common a cross alignment enabler is. Im vanilla now obviously.

I think you shouldn't have outed

Are you saying you don't believe that they are mod confirmed to not have their ability anymore?

No? I'm saying they shouldn't have outed because now they are likely dying tonight. We could have had a clear later on. Or had scum possibly kill their traitor tonight

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: delta

Think I'm okay with this for now

Why

Mostly based off of yesterday. What do you think?

[Hu Tao]

Theta came out the gates looking town today i gotta admit

I agree

[Hu Tao]

Awh jeezy peeps what is this

The wagon on me is bad, I don't think anyone has even tried to justify a vote on me.

Theta's vote was an OMGUS sourced from me questioning them and holding them to account with their stated overnight actions (which I still don't think they've done btw).

My play is apparently 'just off', and there's some wacky tinfoil shite about me bussing Enchant?
I don't think anyone else has really justified.

Idk this wagon has developed so fast and so easily that it's damn near impossible not to have scum on it - and I think that's Theta.

Why do you think it's Theta?

[Hu Tao]

Is it solely based on OMGUS read?

[Hu Tao]

Nevermind, I'm caught up and see your reasoning. But I don't agree

[Hu Tao]

I think we are missing the fact that Enchant flipped scum and no one is trying to go based off his interactions so far. I'll look into that now

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: redFF

Yawn

His first vote, kind of random when both Theta and Delta were starting to get a bit of traction at this point.

Votecount

VC 1-V

Theta Alpine (3):

Alianna (116), redFF (117), Deltabreedy (139)

Deltabreedy (2):

The Bulge (18), Theta Alpine (141)

redFF (2):

Enchant (153), Mewtaph (167)

Flavor Leaf (1):

KittyTacky (11)

Hu Tao (1):

Doctor Drew (133)

Not Voting (4):

Flavor Leaf, Emperor flippyNips, Dr Easy Bake, Hu Tao (137)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 for an execution.

Modnotes:

• I'm trialing a votecounter. Please tell me if there's anything wrong.
  
• The deadline is due in (expired on 2023-04-29 05:55:00).
  
• The previous VC had an error in the deadline.

[Hu Tao]

Mostly Enchant joking around and voting mew. Not really much to see. But the red vote is interesting. Do we think he would vote his partner there? Or vote a random Townie cause his partner is getting voted?

[Hu Tao]

This is probably fine.

VOTE: Deltabreedy

E-1.

@Theta - where was the possible traitor crumb from Kitty?

Okay I feel if I don't come out, Delta will hang.

I am a Village Informed Traffic Analyst. First off, my informed is that there's a traitor and that there's a lazy modifier somewhere. They are not necessarily on the same person.

Then, my results:
N1 - Theta can't privately communicate. That's why I gave up my Theta push and softed it.
N2 - Delta can't privately communicate. Ditto.

If there is even scum between those it has to be the traitor. Possible both are just LHF town.

I also crumbed it here:
[float][/float]

Sorry I wasn't very active yesterday I didn't have the will ta play much now I do.

"ta". O and A are very far from each other, and I'm not doing a Scottish accent gimmick this game.

What's the lazy modify do?

[Hu Tao]

Apologies for flaking last night - long day, 19 hours or so and rather than booting up a computer for tapping out a case, I collapsed into bed and slept.

My bad.

The above changes things though, so for now - I'll UNVOTE: Theta

Alianna, Hu Tao and RedFF all hopped on with scant justification - It went from 0-60 real quick with no justifications in the moment. I'd wager at least one scum in there, with how quickly and opportunistic the votes were.

@Red - why did you vote someone to E-2, and then recant after E-1?

This late into the game, naked votes and Bandwagoning doesn't feel town-motivated to me, and I think it developed too fast for scum to control the narrative - the optics of a town!me speedlim would look horrendous on those who facilitated it.

Well I wanted you since yesterday but the enchant thing happened

[Hu Tao]

so
i am trying to figure out
did group scum not bus enchant at all

cause either group scum did not bus or
bristep or hu tao is group scum

Even though I'm in the group who voted Enchant, I think it would be silly to rule out scum bussing

[Hu Tao]

Sorry, been a hella busy week with work and other shenanigans. I’ll get to reading back this days activity. For now, because I don’t think Enchant’s elim was scum fred

VOTE: hu tao

What does this post even mean

[Hu Tao]

*scum free.

Oh okay. That's fair but why does that make you just jump to the conclusion that scum bussed?

[Hu Tao]

*even if there's a traitor

Why is everyone convinced there is a traitor? I'm confused

[Hu Tao]

*even if there's a traitor

I mean, even you don't believe that it's confirmed?

Oh jeez. I was talking about how Traffic Analyst works. I was correcting my post here because I missed a word. I do believe it's confirmed BECAUSE IT WAS IN MY ROLE CARD. -_- idk how this wasn't obvious.

@Kitty - how exactly does your role work? Enchant was executed D2 and you checked Delta N2, so if it's just them and a traitor, they technically have no one to talk to in the PT. I realize 3 scum + traitor is technically possible, just interested in this scenario. Would you get a positive or negative result on groupscum if they're the last one left, assuming they can't communicate in another way?

I get a guilty if they're not alone in a PT. So sole scum would get an inno even if traitor. So innos are pretty soft. I have a hunch it's 3 scum and tater however.

Yeah idk either. But it's now confirmed.

Confirmed how?

This is probably fine.

VOTE: Deltabreedy

E-1.

@Theta - where was the possible traitor crumb from Kitty?

Okay I feel if I don't come out, Delta will hang.

I am a Village Informed Traffic Analyst.

First off, my informed is that there's a traitor and that there's a lazy modifier somewhere. They are not necessarily on the same person.

Then, my results:
N1 - Theta can't privately communicate. That's why I gave up my Theta push and softed it.
N2 - Delta can't privately communicate. Ditto.

If there is even scum between those it has to be the traitor. Possible both are just LHF town.

I also crumbed it here:
[float][/float]

Sorry I wasn't very active yesterday I didn't have the will ta play much now I do.

"ta". O and A are very far from each other, and I'm not doing a Scottish accent gimmick this game.

Oh right I forgot the first part of the lazy post

[Hu Tao]

@Kitty - how exactly does your role work? Enchant was executed D2 and you checked Delta N2, so if it's just them and a traitor, they technically have no one to talk to in the PT. I realize 3 scum + traitor is technically possible, just interested in this scenario. Would you get a positive or negative result on groupscum if they're the last one left, assuming they can't communicate in another way?

I get a guilty if they're not alone in a PT. So sole scum would get an inno even if traitor. So innos are pretty soft. I have a hunch it's 3 scum and tater however.

Wait I just saw this. If it's confirmed there is a traitor then delta could be scum just solo scum that would get an inno result from you?

[Hu Tao]

I can see 3 + traitor, but wouldn't Kitty's role technically be stronger in that setup than in 2 + traitor?

Wouldn't 4 scum be way too strong with the amount of people we have in the game? If it's confirmed there is a traitor then it should be 2 + traitor

[Hu Tao]

I don't trust Red's claim.

Here's why:

Knowing what we know now, #75 reads more like Scum!RedFF pushing away from traitor discussion. At the time justifiably so, so I think it went under the radar a bit - but in retrospect and aligning with the rest of their play it kind of makes sense.

Votes on Enchant and Theta in #84 and #117 have minimal justification but provide a degree of 'activity' without actually including any genuine scumhunting. This is then justified when FL challenges it in #154 where from there it does turn defensive. This gets called out but again their lack of activity after this means that they go pretty un-noticed.

In #222 there is another odd interaction with FL, wherein the prior interaction had shown FL to be doing some digging around Red's defensive posturing, but I think Red feigns ignorance in response to Flavour's admittedly quite coded posting. It reads to me as more of a vibe check - 'Who are you leaning scum on?' here =

Do you think I am scum?

Then there is effectively a 4 day period of inactivity. A few prod dodges that don't advance the game whilst ill - I don't count being ill as AI, of course - but returning to the game saying 'I got really sick over the weekend' when the inactivity was from Tues 23rd (#222) to Thurs 25th (#334 doesn't check out at all. Again, I feel this went relatively un-noticed. Lurking into the background has worked for Red and it's only really after the opportunistic vote on me and then the 3rd prod that I woke up and saw it.

#384 continues this trend of non-justified wagonpushing. At this point they're on Theta's wagon - and taking the assumption that Theta is town, Red would be keen on pushing this in bad faith, knowing who scum are. Being fine with all three wagons without actually having any reasoning behind them, not even spoken about vibes is inherently scummy to me - it might just be a playstyle thing but it also fits in with the rest of the gameplay so far.

Voting Mewtaph (Confirmed town by way of death) to E-1 without justification in #416 (coming after Mewtaph has called out RedFF for lurking in #3600 feels like Lurk!Scum looking for an easy way to A) Push a mislim and B) Push someone who suspects them out. By being so distant and in the background - from memory no-body connected this dot D2.

The justification for the Mew wagon from Red comes in D2, but again with nothing of substance to back it up. #478 reads as an attempt to move past it and move past any kind of VCA - and to be honest for me it worked. I didn't even clock thinking about it until now. By being aware of who scum is - Red can play along quite easily with FL's claim - which of course by way of death we know to be true. #479 curries favour with FL who Scum!Red would know to be powerful town and justifies the actions subsequently.

The big issue I have with this is the JK claim.

None of Red's actions feel like they have the goal of advancing the gamestate, or even finding scum. I don't read any willingness to find and lim scum from any of their posts - there's barely-existent questioning, a sense of complete apathy and to be honest if it wasn't for the claim, on a re-read I would have them absolutely locked as scum. Naked votes, opportunistic chances to put people at E-1 being taken - I just don't read Red's ISO or the associatives with Enchant and see anything other than scum.

The existance of the JK-enabler role is the literal only thing that slices up the argument and I'm having a real hard time getting past it.

Someone tell me I'm being an idiot here, but I'm really struggling with this one.

--

I also take issue with Alianna and Hu Tao for some of the same reasons, but I want players to audit my thought process above first.

Ninja'd by 4+ posts - will respond in new post.

I think I don't see the scum motivation for 1. Being jk with Enchant's role. Or 2. Fake claiming JK with a real JK just able to cc them. So I think red should be off the table for now

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: hutao i dont like his reaction to my claim today

Why? You could have waited until you were going to be voted out and then claim

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: Emperor

I think I'll vote this for now

[Hu Tao]

Think Alianna is town. And I don't want delta. I also think bristep vote on me to automatically assume scum was bussing is weird. So I wouldn't mind voting them as well

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: hutao i dont like his reaction to my claim today

Why? You could have waited until you were going to be voted out and then claim

They're functionally vanilla now, though, so not claiming really just wastes time if they get wagoned.

Yeah but that gives scum a free night kill. Instead of having to potentially kill a traitor

[Hu Tao]

Personally I don't like claiming pr until I HAVE to. But I guess that could just be me

[Hu Tao]

Funny how I was a top Town read yesterday and now I am scum read by someone for voting scum

[Hu Tao]

Funny how I was a top Town read yesterday and now I am scum read by someone for voting scum

really it is kind of just
were scum trying to save enchant from dying
in which case i would think it is doctor drew and alianna

or were scum just bussing cause enchant was caught
in which case i think it would actually be you and bristep together

I think it's irrelevant because it could be either. And just going off of that is silly. Who has been scummiest till now should be the most important thing

[Hu Tao]

Agreed. I don't see it

[Hu Tao]

I can see 3 + traitor, but wouldn't Kitty's role technically be stronger in that setup than in 2 + traitor?

Wouldn't 4 scum be way too strong with the amount of people we have in the game? If it's confirmed there is a traitor then it should be 2 + traitor

Traitor counts as like, half of a groupscum or even less.

Still think it's likely 2 + traitor or we would be in last day too fast if we misvoted

[Hu Tao]

I'm pr. I'd rather not say which at the moment. I softed though

[Hu Tao]

Personally I don't like claiming pr until I HAVE to. But I guess that could just be me

Here

[Hu Tao]

I suggest going elsewhere for today. I feel the wagon on me is silly when I was town read by people voting me yesterday and the case on me is that scum probably bussed.

[Hu Tao]

Enchant didn't make the kill by the way, I did as ninja. So he claimed he visited the night kill for no reason.... and we basically lost because of it