Pokemon Battles 2 - Attack on Giratina [GAME OVER]

[SquirtleSquad]

I could summarize the first paragraph just by "you seem to have an agenda" if it makes it more easy to understand.

[SquirtleSquad]

A big example of the opportunism was the fight we had about the "only 5 scum reads" comment where you continually tried to paint me as simply being upset and hostile to you in order to ignore and minimize the point I was making. I wasn't mad, I was making a point that I still believe, and your response to it was essentially to be like "stop being so hostile bro" while ignoring the meat of my argument.

[SquirtleSquad]

but I ain't like trying to convince you that you're scum so like, I'm not super interested in having a protracted argument about this either.

[KittyTacky]

SHIT YOU GOT PAGETOP BEFORE ME

this button lets you combine a bunch of quotes which can help with the rapid fire catchup thing. i'm indifferent about thread clutter tbh but other people sometimes aren't lol

I'm too used to my usual way.

[Blue.]

Ah, okay, that's good, was worried you were on full tilt. Would like to discuss your view of the game when you're feeling up for it and have a better grasp of things. I was kind of paranoid of you because you townread me when I was getting some heat, and I'm wary of pockets in a situation like that, but I'm willing to trust you now and want to work together.

noting that this post is doing exactly what it says it is wary of in exactly the situation it says it is wary of it.

Yeah, I'm trying to pocket him because I want to work with him. I'm being pretty upfront about what I'm doing. In this game, you have to choose to trust people if you want to win, I'm opting to trust him, if he wants to say no he's free to do so.

What is your problem with me, exactly? I feel like I can't breathe without you throwing shade in my direction.

I think you're scum. I thought that should be obvious.

Because...?

I don't like the directions you go in, I think the way you played around my slot has many times been extremely opportunistic. I think you tend to chime in during situations where I think it shifts thread momentum in a way I don't like. I think you've played to discredit or prop up slots at times where, if I were scum, I would also be inclined to do so.

I think there isn't appetite to get you limmed right now and I don't feel super confident in knowing exactly what you were trying to accomplish with the aforementioned slots until I get some flips, and to preempt the question I'm not going to go pull quotes for you or anything, though I think I've called out a bunch in real time. (the shade you are referring to)

But I am cataloguing the things I see that I don't like as I go along.

I don't think I've ever really expressed suspicion of you so I don't know where you get the impression I was being "opportunistic". I expressed displeasure with how you were interacting with the game but it wasn't a read on your alignment. (I don't really want to re-open old wounds here but felt it necessary to clarify. I would appreciate if we could play amicably even if you continue to believe I'm scum).


Thanks though, I appreciate the answer. It clarifies a lot for me - really.

[Pink Ball]

what information are u gathering from ur own reaction?

People jumping on a town wagon. That's useful information to me and to everyone who will trust that I'm town in the not so distant future

so if you're not saying people voting you are scummy what information do you glean from this?

I don't think you really need an answer for this question

[Pink Ball]

You're basically asking how to play mafia lol

[SquirtleSquad]

Ah, okay, that's good, was worried you were on full tilt. Would like to discuss your view of the game when you're feeling up for it and have a better grasp of things. I was kind of paranoid of you because you townread me when I was getting some heat, and I'm wary of pockets in a situation like that, but I'm willing to trust you now and want to work together.

noting that this post is doing exactly what it says it is wary of in exactly the situation it says it is wary of it.

Yeah, I'm trying to pocket him because I want to work with him. I'm being pretty upfront about what I'm doing. In this game, you have to choose to trust people if you want to win, I'm opting to trust him, if he wants to say no he's free to do so.

What is your problem with me, exactly? I feel like I can't breathe without you throwing shade in my direction.

I think you're scum. I thought that should be obvious.

Because...?

I don't like the directions you go in, I think the way you played around my slot has many times been extremely opportunistic. I think you tend to chime in during situations where I think it shifts thread momentum in a way I don't like. I think you've played to discredit or prop up slots at times where, if I were scum, I would also be inclined to do so.

I think there isn't appetite to get you limmed right now and I don't feel super confident in knowing exactly what you were trying to accomplish with the aforementioned slots until I get some flips, and to preempt the question I'm not going to go pull quotes for you or anything, though I think I've called out a bunch in real time. (the shade you are referring to)

But I am cataloguing the things I see that I don't like as I go along.

I don't think I've ever really expressed suspicion of you so I don't know where you get the impression I was being "opportunistic". I expressed displeasure with how you were interacting with the game but it wasn't a read on your alignment. (I don't really want to re-open old wounds here but felt it necessary to clarify. I would appreciate if we could play amicably even if you continue to believe I'm scum).


Thanks though, I appreciate the answer. It clarifies a lot for me - really.

I think you were testing the waters of a scum read multiple times and never got there because of thread politics.

The way you interacted with my slots at multiple points felt as if you were scum reading me but the fact that you never got there but also left me off your list of people you wouldn't vote for is something that has pinged me a lot. Basically you've directed a lot of negative attention towards my slot without actually committing to trying to push me.

You say you were trying to stop antagonism but I continue to reject that framing. Here is the post you claimed was antagonistic.

I responded to his saying nope to my firebringer town read with what I thought was pretty good reasoning.

Even if he didn't agree with that, I was attempting to start a dialogue, I would expect a town player to be interested in using that hook to try to sort me, or at least to have some sort of interaction which was readable.

He responded by ignoring it completely and interaction with the fluff post directly above it to continue fluff posting. All the things he's said seem either contrived or actively unhelpful.

It's just simply not. You chose to say I was not fun at parties and a buzz kill because of this post. Which is simply just a normal mafia post.

The antagonism debate, like it or not, is also a big part of my read on you because I thought and still think you were being completely unreasonable as was pointed out by multiple other players in the game at the time.

So since I don't really believe I was actually being antagonistic, I look for motivation for why you want to paint me that way and I get to the debate about "5 scum reads" and I see how you used what you were projecting my emotions to be as a way to minimize my thread impact and I think the conclusion draws itself.

[Doctor Drew]

Is there a post restriction where people have to talk about 'thread politics' constantly?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just like build an half-assed wagon with enough votes to matter and i’ll join it i guess.
If y’all can even manage that.

[SquirtleSquad]

there are two wagons right now.

how about you take some stances?

[SquirtleSquad]

Is there a post restriction where people have to talk about 'thread politics' constantly?

people like to think mafia is a game about votes and wagons but it's not. Those things are primarily symptoms. Mafia is a game about power and thread momentum.

[KittyTacky]

6. KittyTacky

wolf read

Spoiler:

Not much comment on early pages.

I don't actually have a strong opinion on sheep.

The mech in this game is pretty confusing to me, I'll engage with it but I'll try and focus on day play.

Fire null, I mean sure this kind of irreverence can be town, but it's very possible to just troll as scum.

Welp caught up, little to say about the last 4 pages, I'll keep watch on a few slots (not saying which).

these in combination all felt a little too show-y to me without saying anything

I still think this first catchup is the most straight-up wolfy catchup of the game

Why that's how I basically always catch up.

Ranger does this every game iirc, it's NAI.

insanely wolfy defense of a player without even reading the push against them; I'm surprised Flavor didn't jump on this more

I mean I realized what he was getting at after the fact, you didn't even bring that up soooooo.

Generally, this is a player who feels like he is trying to make his catchup Many posts in a row to seem villagery. Like I know people have described patchwork that way, but only with KittyTacky rather than patchwork have I seen many posts that feel like they are simply trying to inflate post count.

You played one game with me and I was scum in it. If you played more with me as town you wouldn't be sussing me for this.

If Cakez scum then Blue very sussy.

Blue and Squirtle are not w/w.

It seems like a genuine fight and not theatre.

these associatives are like, 50% of the content in his second catchup. you start to realize that theyre fairly devoid of legit meaningful content at all

I don't know what else to say about these slots.

FL is def town, like I'll be extremely shocked if he's scum.

this is just not real, you cant confidently townread fl rn. I admit it's not super wolfy to have the read if you dont know him well. but his signature is literally about his wolf capabilities

Honestly I don't really know FL too much.

I agree his vibes are better than the wolfgame I played with him. I am less confident he is a wolf than if I had never seen this guy before

Answers in bold.

gtg

[Blue.]

I got beat by the previous posts, so I'll just amend that I acknowledge 1826 and will again state that at no point in that interaction was I actively expressing a scumread of you

I think you were testing the waters of a scum read multiple times and never got there because of thread politics.

The way you interacted with my slots at multiple points felt as if you were scum reading me but the fact that you never got there but also left me off your list of people you wouldn't vote for is something that has pinged me a lot. Basically you've directed a lot of negative attention towards my slot without actually committing to trying to push me.

To be perfectly honest?

I thought you might be town but left you off the list because your interaction with me made me feel bad and so I wouldn't care if you died. That's harsh but it's the truth, I'm not immune to feeling petty. I am a bit surprised people put so much weight on their non-inclusion on that list, although maybe I shouldn't be.


Some time later I began to wonder if you had actively manipulated me by guilt tripping me for expressing vaguely negative sentiment toward you. The whole thing left me feeling dirty.

This was partly why I questioned you. If there's a behavior that qualifies as "testing the waters of a scum read", surely taking potshots at me at every available opportunity must qualify as such. I couldn't fully understand where you were coming from with your read on me, so I asked you directly to see what your mindset was, because interrogating people directly about their reads on me is one of the best tools I have for determining. I think your explanation is plausible to me as a legitimate thought process. I mostly see where you're coming from now and understand it. I think your impression of me is misguided but genuine, and I clearly got off on the wrong foot with you, but I am hopeful this can be resolved in the future.

So, basically, I don't mind if you're paranoid of me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I misfade Cakez this week already, I don’t really feel like doing it again

[Blue.]

I misfade Cakez this week already, I don’t really feel like doing it again

Who do you feel like fading?

[Blue.]

because interrogating people directly about their reads on me is one of the best tools I have for determining

their alignment

.

EBWOP

[SquirtleSquad]

I got beat by the previous posts, so I'll just amend that I acknowledge 1826 and will again state that at no point in that interaction was I actively expressing a scumread of you

I think you were testing the waters of a scum read multiple times and never got there because of thread politics.

The way you interacted with my slots at multiple points felt as if you were scum reading me but the fact that you never got there but also left me off your list of people you wouldn't vote for is something that has pinged me a lot. Basically you've directed a lot of negative attention towards my slot without actually committing to trying to push me.

To be perfectly honest?

I thought you might be town but left you off the list because your interaction with me made me feel bad and so I wouldn't care if you died. That's harsh but it's the truth, I'm not immune to feeling petty. I am a bit surprised people put so much weight on their non-inclusion on that list, although maybe I shouldn't be.


Some time later I began to wonder if you had actively manipulated me by guilt tripping me for expressing vaguely negative sentiment toward you. The whole thing left me feeling dirty.

This was partly why I questioned you. If there's a behavior that qualifies as "testing the waters of a scum read", surely taking potshots at me at every available opportunity must qualify as such. I couldn't fully understand where you were coming from with your read on me, so I asked you directly to see what your mindset was, because interrogating people directly about their reads on me is one of the best tools I have for determining. I think your explanation is plausible to me as a legitimate thought process. I mostly see where you're coming from now and understand it. I think your impression of me is misguided but genuine, and I clearly got off on the wrong foot with you, but I am hopeful this can be resolved in the future.

So, basically, I don't mind if you're paranoid of me.

In a completely out of game sense you should consider that your impact matters more than your intention and maybe when someone tells you something you've said is insulting to them, you should apologize and move on with your life. This goes double for if you see someone referring to something as insulting when it is said by someone else and you choose to pile on and double down on that insult.

That's the last I'll say about this except to discuss it in the sense of what I view as your thread manipulation.

[SquirtleSquad]

The fact that you seem like an otherwise reasonable human being makes me more suspicious of your slot not less.

[SquirtleSquad]

Also I am not testing the waters of a scum read, I have a scum read on you. I have expressed several times that I think you are scum.

[Blue.]

In a completely out of game sense you should consider that your impact matters more than your intention and maybe when someone tells you something you've said is insulting to them, you should apologize and move on with your life. This goes double for if you see someone referring to something as insulting when it is said by someone else and you choose to pile on and double down on that insult.

The same goes to you. The way you spoke to me feel incredibly uncomfortable. I understand and recognize you felt insulted by what I posted and I apologize for that, but it does not change the fact your response to this was hostile and painted everything I did as a personal affront, to the point I no longer felt comfortable interacting with you.

It's clear that although the tone of this discussion is a lot more civil, I think the fundamental issue still remains, and I feel like you are taking away the space for me to interact with you as an equal in this game.

Also I am not testing the waters of a scum read, I have a scum read on you. I have expressed several times that I think you are scum.

The distinction remains semantic at best when you're not fully committing to a case.

[Thestatusquo]

You still haven't apologized for insulting me and then when i got upset about it essentially going 'u mad bro lighten up'

Outside of some barbed words right after it happened i have not treated you differently than i would any other slot in this game.

[Firebringer]

nice slip

[NorwegianboyEE]

there are two wagons right now.

how about you take some stances?

Nah.

[KittyTacky]

lol @ cakez

i played ToS a fair bit to be fair

I should get TOS 2 heh. I forgot about it releasing.