Micro 1082 - I’m the Real Tracker (Day 4)

[JasonWazza]

Like just to be clear, knowing someone's personality and taking it out of your thinking isn't a Meta read, it's just not being stupid and ignoring how that person plays.

[Black]

agreed.
though, bingle has claimed a weak pr and other seeking neighbor can always target him.

I understand that. I still think the RB should only block Bingle if they think he is scum though

Why does Town!Bingle need to not be RB'd in your mind?

I think putting our RB in a useful spot for all of town isn't a bad idea, If Bingle is Town, we give all our PR's a night to use their power, If Bingle is Scum, we openly force the other scum member to also not use their role to get a kill off.

I don't think the RB'er should ever block someone they think is town. Do you?

[Black]

Like just to be clear, knowing someone's personality and taking it out of your thinking isn't a Meta read, it's just not being stupid and ignoring how that person plays.

Uhh I'm not sure what I'm missing here but how a person plays as either alignment is exactly what a meta read is

[JasonWazza]

I don't think the RB'er should ever block someone they think is town. Do you?

I think the RB should consider the net benefit to town on their roleblock, and reality is, net benefit of blocking not!Bingle is negative.

Sure they might be right about their read, does that mean your actually roleblocking the kill? Probably not
And they could just be reading the game bad, which means you could be blocking our tracker, or our Psuedo-Cop, (as an example) is that helpful? No

[JasonWazza]

Like just to be clear, knowing someone's personality and taking it out of your thinking isn't a Meta read, it's just not being stupid and ignoring how that person plays.

Uhh I'm not sure what I'm missing here but how a person plays as either alignment is exactly what a meta read is

What i'm saying is ignoring the parts that are Meta, and using the rest to make your read isn't a Meta read.

[JasonWazza]

Example: Kowah talks about no-lim and can defend his thinking on it well regardless of alignment, take that and throw it in the trash and keep going with what is left over, this isn't a Meta read, it's just ignoring the Meta stuff.

[Black]

Kowah hasn't done much D1 here to go off, personality seems the same, i don't think he has done anything read worthy at this point though.

Though that's also coming from someone that uses Meta mostly as a rule out of reads rather then a generator of reads.

like describe what you see here specifically in Delta town cuz it is not as obvious as you think it is

Town Delta is way more confrontational then Scum Delta, could be playing to meta, but i think it's good enough for this early.

though 105 feels a bit wonky even then, though Delta has a habit of arguing semantics a lot.

You townread Kowah because his personality feels the same as his last game and you townread Delta because he plays more confrontational as town. These are the definition of meta reads

Honestly I have no clue what we are even arguing about anymore. Are you always this defensive when someone scumreads you?

[JasonWazza]

You townread Kowah because his personality feels the same as his last game

I'm sorry what the fuck?

Just to be clear, if your referring to this we have a clash on wording

No-lim stuff is a Personality read

In this case, it's a personality read, so it goes in the garbage.

Personality read = this is just their personality and useless as a metric for anything

[Black]

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I'm talking about 81. You said "personality seems the same" so I assumed you were townreading him because his personality seemed the same as his last game. I'm sorry if I misunderstood

[JasonWazza]

Kowah hasn't done much D1 here to go off, personality seems the same,

i don't think he has done anything read worthy at this point though

.

[JasonWazza]

and 110 isn't my full thoughts on Delta, I tend to keep full thoughts to myself early game because there is no point giving all my thoughts away, It's just a bit of Meta that I thought might help the game progress somewhere useful, that I had in the tank from previously looking into Delta.

[JasonWazza]

Are you always this defensive when someone scumreads you?

And as a note, no i tend to ignore scum reads on me unless the reasoning for them is bad.

And frankly this one is bad considering the sorts of things your posting (like somehow getting a Town Read for Kowah in a post where i said i literally have no read on Kowah)

Your reasoning for voting me is Conviction, and that is just an objectively bad reason to scum read someone (like in what world would that ever not be a Personality tell?).

And the sort of posts you pull up, that Kowah one is before i town read Kowah, and i don't see why you would assume that 110 is the only reason i have to read Delta as town (which as a point, sounds like someone that does actually have TMI).

Which also, those posts don't even really have conviction in them, you literally used posts where I'm either not having a read (no conviction) or where I'm even calling out something else Delta did (how is this conviction?)

[Black]

And frankly this one is bad considering the sorts of things your posting (like somehow getting a Town Read for Kowah in a post where i said i literally have no read on Kowah)

Yeah I already admitted there was a misunderstanding here. I couldn't figure out why you TR'd Kowah and I think I attributed that comment to it by accident

Your reasoning for voting me is Conviction, and that is just an objectively bad reason to scum read someone (like in what world would that ever not be a Personality tell?).

I'm not voting you. And that's only one of the reasons I scumread you tbh. Admittedly it's not a very strong reason

And the sort of posts you pull up, that Kowah one is before i town read Kowah, and i don't see why you would assume that 110 is the only reason i have to read Delta as town (which as a point, sounds like someone that does actually have TMI).

It was 100 posts in the game. If you had other reasons to TR Delta I assumed you would have included them there. But I accept your explanation of wanting to keep your reads close to your chest

Which also, those posts don't even really have conviction in them, you literally used posts where I'm either not having a read (no conviction) or where I'm even calling out something else Delta did (how is this conviction?)

I think you're a little too focused on the conviction thing

[JasonWazza]

Just to clarify then, you still have me as a top scum read, even without the conviction stuff?

[Black]

Absolutely

[Bingle]

Pretenders know they are pretenders, right?

They do not.

[Bingle]

93 - I'm not really a big fan of Bingle just accepting the "your posts feel fake" claim and not asking Kowah to elaborate

I mean, I literally started a new job last Tuesday and my posting is now squeezed into vastly different time slots from my historical norm. I'd be surprised if I wasn't tonally off.

[Bingle]

I understand that. I still think the RB should only block Bingle if they think he is scum though

^

Also, if we say... leash the roleblocker to scumMe (in a hypothetical where that is possible because I am scum) that makes it really easy for my scumbuddy to yknow, make the kill. RB should arrive at their own conclusion of who is the best target and target there, without making it incredibly obvious. It might be worth it to have a designated roleblock target in the case that a scum lim happens today (1 scum remaining means any roleblocked player is conftown if a kill happens) but it doesn't necessarily have to be me.

[JasonWazza]

You are ignoring so much with that hypothetical, just to be clear.

Here is the simple fact, I would prefer a roleblocker be on Bingle and be confirmed to not hit our Tracker/Loyal Checker/Inspector, then to have free reign to potentially fuck everything up, for the simple reason of "they might stop the kill in a dream scenario"

Because instead of just relying on the information roles we have to potentially stockpile useful info, we are relying on a Roleblocker, not only being right on their scum reads, but also then being right on who will make the kill, which is more beneficial?

And note, sure yes these roles might be in the hands of scum, that actually doesn't matter as much as you think, because if they get revealed to be real, and have lied, then they are scum.

[Bingle]

It is incredibly antitown to aim the roleblocker. The roleblocker should arrive at their own conclusions as to where they should target.

[JasonWazza]

I actually personally think the Roleblocker is anti-town in this setup by default (at least early game), so I don't see directing them as bad at all.

[Bingle]

We're back to the problem of a truly immense amount of cogdis in your arguments.

[JasonWazza]

What cogdis?

I don't want a Roleblocker stopping our information gathering roles, for the small chance they might stop the kill, and being on you is a good way to do that, while also if your scum FORCING your scum-partner to make the kill.

[Bingle]

My claim is bad because it influences targeting, to the point that it justifies a policy lim. Also, we should be pseudoleashing a roleblocker to my claim, because it actively mitigates the dangers of a roleblocker. Also also, it is proscum to have individual roles be recognizable based on whether they claim to have targeted me in pseudoclaim, completely ignoring that a pseudoclaim by it's very nature groups people into "roles that target townreads" and "roles that target scumreads".

Regardless, the point of a town roleblocker D1 is the threat of a roleblock. Say, for instance, that you scumtrack me. You receive a no result. You don't know whether you are a pretender or have been roleblocked, so whether or not you can safely fakeclaim is in question. Say instead that you get a result of I targeted Kowah. You don't know if you are a pretender or I actually targeted Kowah. Say I targeted no one. You don't know if I holstered, was rb'd or you are a pretender. The threat that maybe a roleblocker might have interfered with information means that scum can't lie about their N1 action easily, which then makes their claim vastly more interesting, because the only viable fakeclaim is to be a pretender and pretenders don't actually take actions.

[Political Clout]

*snip*

I agree UNVOTE: we are thinking the same thing.

I find it a smidge suspect how you agree with me in full after being called out for sheeping the vote on me.

Actually,

VOTE: PC

I feel like you're being very reactive here and Delta's 133 resonates. Do you have any reads you feel strongly about?

I can be here tomorrow! it'll help me catch up and focus on this game :).

@delta I really did not see anyone calling me out why are you lying? unless you mean 88 where you don't call anyone out and just tell it how you're feeling that post just felt really genuine to me.

@bingle mostly because I am being reactive I'm essentially writing posts after the town has settled into a lull of not posting but then i start posting and catching up. is that what you mean otherwise if you mean something else I didn't catch your meaning.

I like jason for town and delta slight town
I think you bingle are focusing a lot a lot on the setup slightly scummy. because even you agree with me about playing this like an all vanilla game. makes all your other points a bit moot imo.
I also think donempire is slight scum for saying what he said about no lim being the worst option and not voting kowah.
I'm null on invisibility and merlyn/black since they replaced in at the end.
the kowah slot hasn't really said much except about wanting to no lim do i believe merlyn and appearance about the slot and the no lim being nai? I'm not entirely sure because on it's own I could see that but their posts don't really excite me one way or the other his only actual post is about bingle and voting him and bingle's posts feeling fake. but kowah also said that he doesn't believe in meta so will he always just advocate for a no lim from now on to maintain this weird nai meta? seems like a lot of effort. plus they aren't really trying to solve here if they are committed to the no lim strategy. at least I haven't seen them try to solve.
I forgot appearance was in the game...what does that mean??? I guess null.