BTXVI: Boons Ahoy! Spectator Thread

[Boonskiies]

Players With Access:

Flavor Leaf/Boonskiies
The Baker
Students of Prudence
Furtiveglance
RH9
Theta Alpine
Whemestar
Ranger
Firebringer
TemporalLich
Emperor flippyNips
Enchant
Peregrine
Save The Dragons
Malakittens

[Boonskiies]

It was dirty.

[Boonskiies]

Welcome Theta and Wheme to the dead thread.

[Boonskiies]

Spoiler on some Night Actions.

Spoiler:

Theta Alpine was killed from two actions.

[Boonskiies]

Hey boon is fire aware he can’t use his night action next night

And can mafia use the kill action night 2?

Yes, he is aware. I think he thinks his shot got blocked. He sent it elsewhere.

Mafia can use the kill yeah, but Theta wouldn’t have been able to.

Spoiler:

Had Theta been protected, and this exchange happened, they would have been saved if they didn’t get killed with 2 things. Would have been a cool interaction

I think the Privateer role was pretty cool. Excited it got some good action.

[Boonskiies]

if the kill had been up to me it would have been different

enchant would be shot

Spoiler:

The 2 VT's in Neighborhoods.

[Boonskiies]

oh yeah fun fact about the gunsmith

Spoiler:

they would only have been able to catch me out of the scum team

Spoiler:

Yeah, it looks like a crazy strong town PR, but has the chance to get a fake clear or a false guilty. Could get softish hard clears, though if Drew flipped and there were 3 other clears.

[Boonskiies]

Alchemist, myself, and OutWorldEr as a scum team did in fact sit and vote together almost all game once and nearly got a Mason faded.

But Ranger is correct that most scum do not vote together

[Boonskiies]

yeah
was mostly town that did all the voting yesterday
i just hung back and watched

anyways i am right pleased with my work here

Spoiler:

temporal being town is about the only thing everyone has correct
people are divided on a bunch of stuff and out of the consensus most of what people agree on is wrong

Spoiler:

TL is not town

[Boonskiies]

yeah
was mostly town that did all the voting yesterday
i just hung back and watched

anyways i am right pleased with my work here

Spoiler:

temporal being town is about the only thing everyone has correct
people are divided on a bunch of stuff and out of the consensus most of what people agree on is wrong

Spoiler:

TL is not town

Spoiler:

can they win with scum or have i accidentally wrought my own demise here

Spoiler:

They will automatically leave the game beginning of Day 3, so yeah, both scum and town can win.

There is a potential for them to get tracked and in the right scenario, it can out a scum member, but very very unlikely. Not impossible, and people would still have to piece it together.

[Boonskiies]

Lol, firebringer is being funny.

But yeah, his epiphany is correct.

[Boonskiies]

Good showing still.

Yeah, I generally use Neighborhoods as a function, not part of the role itself because I play a lot with the usage of Vanilla.

[Boonskiies]

As of right now, I think scum are in a good spot.

This is a town leaning setup if scum does nothing, but there’s been something that’s interesting that happened from scum that could either help them a lot or hurt them.

[Boonskiies]

Welcome, Firebringer and TemporalLich.

[Boonskiies]

Trying to be kind of vague with my answering.

Truth is, I could see myself having a disabler that would disable factional abilities as a whole, but I went with straight forward disables the Player.

Already a lean town sided game due to only 3 scum, but 4 scum was too much for 15 when I had the third party.

but there were really very few ways to get truly confirmed this game.

[Boonskiies]

@TL about possibilities

Spoiler:

There was even a potential Tracker that could have tracked you and effectively been a Parity Cop had they tracked you Night 2, which I thought was a super cool possibility.

[Boonskiies]

I think Temporal was in a rough spot at the end, and don’t really think it was a sure lock.
I need to mess around with that role a bit, I feel, but I did like the core concept of it as a third party.

Firebringer I thought played well. I loved when you had an epiphany

Ranger asked me real early on about the Universal Backup information ready to fake claim, and you know I can’t resist a good gambit.

[Boonskiies]

It's there, now I can use it easier in another game if I so please. Nobody will expect a Kraken coming out of nowhere.

[Boonskiies]

Yeah, just been modifying the Hunter/Hunted mechanic for a bit. Trying to find solid Third parties that aren’t Survivor or SK

[Boonskiies]

Gonna be a close game.

[Boonskiies]

Game got juicy

[Boonskiies]

Yo

[Boonskiies]

Balance Talk.

Spoiler:

Like, no doubt about it, this was a town sided setup. I meant to make it slightly lean town sided, because I think that's a bit more balanced with how I try to create the 'gameplay' of the game. Somewhat like a Mechanical Puzzle that can be Socially Manipulated. Like to a cartoonish level, though. A traitor, in theory, would have been what made this a bit more even, but I didn't feel like going traitor, so scum just took a bit of a hit right there.

Scum are doing well considering, and I do think it's gonna go down to the finals with this one.

[Boonskiies]

Woke up to 2 new actions to start the day with, spoiler on some townies.

Spoiler:

Save The Dragons gave Enchant a Sticky Fruit.

Malakittens Tracked STD to Enchant.

False Guilty RIP

Something also potentially funny is happening action wise. Spoiler on one of the scum, one town, below.

Spoiler:

Doctor Drew, scum, doctored Frogs.

Klick, Interdimensional Traveler, delayed Drew's doc shot til the next night.

If scum decide to kill Frogs on Night 4, then Doctor Drew is going to legitimately protect Frogs on Night 4.

[Boonskiies]

KLICK SET HIM UP LOL

I understand exactly why they think that too.

This game is so fun to watch right now.

[Boonskiies]

KLICK SET HIM UP LOL

I understand exactly why they think that too.

This game is so fun to watch right now.

Please tell what's up with ascetic receiving fruit

Spoiler:

Simple.

They're lying.

[Boonskiies]

Spoiler: Heh

Damn had them dead to rights if game was not bastard with "well i can change all roles and call it mutation lol"

Spoiler:

Technically, there could have been something to go through it. Was it likely, no, but I couldn't just out Peregrine's lie

[Boonskiies]

well now im spoilered on the team

Yeah, my bad, didn't keep enough in spoilers, but it's still fun to spectate from this position.

[Boonskiies]

Spoiler: Heh

Damn had them dead to rights if game was not bastard with "well i can change all roles and call it mutation lol"

Spoiler:

Technically, there could have been something to go through it. Was it likely, no, but I couldn't just out Peregrine's lie

Spoiler: h

It's not problem that you didn't out lie, it's problem that "MUTATION" is really wide clarification. You can basically change role, and call it mutation. Make atleast one example of mutation which allows ascetic to receive fruit and which about i can read in rules.

Yeah, in actuality, it would probably end up having to be a new role. I was super VLA during answering time, but yeah. Mutation is generally really tame variations.

[Boonskiies]

viewtopic.php?p=10556152#p10556152

I should have just linked this when answering.

[Boonskiies]

Sometimes it doesn't fit with the puzzle is all.

Mutations are generally lower, like Neighbor not being part of the role name is the classic one. same with traitor.

In theory, I should have just chosen not to answer the questions until post game or something. Where as a Variant is like the Kraken.

[Boonskiies]

I like the WIFOM of it. With these setups, I like to get players to know that yes, there could be some wackadoodle reason, however, go after play in addition to some mech.

I also think the choice that was made to make the claim was rather strong and a big risk.

I don't want pure mech to be able to solve one of the games.

It's a bit cartoonish, but I do feel this game is actually a good indicator of where things are landing with BooneyToonz.

[Boonskiies]

it's definitely noted, though. Player enjoyment is always necessary.

[Boonskiies]

Spoiler on one of the scum, one town, below.

Spoiler:

Doctor Drew, scum, doctored Frogs. Klick, Interdimensional Traveler, delayed Drew's doc shot til the next night. If scum decide to kill Frogs on Night 4, then Doctor Drew is going to legitimately protect Frogs on Night 4.

By my count, that's actually spoiler on two town.

Spoiler: Reason

Scum wouldn't kill Frogs if Frogs were scum;
Scum wouldn't kill Frogs if they knew Drew's protection on Frogs was delayed.

yeah, we are effectively spoiled spectators now.

[Boonskiies]

Well, the Extravaganza I did years back everyone had secret voting, and I had 4 people chosen to choose when to end the day, and majority vote ended, and in between night phases were extra Bonus Rounds of a whole separate game where there were prizes that added onto people's roles.

But yeah, BooneyToonz did start in the Normal Queue, but I was a little bit too whacky admittedly for a Normal Game, I just liked the Variant mechanic.

Nowadays, I don't think my games are too difficult for someone who has a solid baseline on mechanics, even though it can get wacky, but the game's I like to run just aren't simple enough to run in the Normal Queue, even though it could if I made sure to tweak it a bit.

Plus, I mainly run Large Themes because I like to incorporate Flavor, even if not so much the actual lore I'm writing, which has been lower effort style this game. It did its job. Sometimes I just don't have the creative energy to write for a modded game but still wanted to mod.

Like, one of my previous games I started using the Inverted modifier, which let you and anyone else target onto people who were commuted, which is Wacky, but overall, kinda simple.

And I think that's my sweet spot.

End of the day, I just like the story that the game brings with these roles.

Like the Privateer being a combination of the Disabler and Buccaneer was super fun to see.


The few BooneyToonz games that were modded by others did feel drastically different.

I will have to watch out for getting hard Mod Meta'd, though. Ranger as the only pure Vanilla definitely would have essentially been an IC. Liked the Universal Backup claim, though, even if it didn't pan out in the long run.

[Boonskiies]

I kind of liked the Superstar without the Modifiers. I kind of get that, though.

I need to establish the Mutation side of things more, though. That's clear to me after this game. I have been doing Mutations for a while, like sometimes Bunyip is VT/Not VT, sometimes it's Vanilla/Not Vanilla. Setup wise, these things became necessary for the puzzle to work how I wanted them to.

I also typically like to use Vanillas and Neighbors, so that's why I treated Neighbors the way I do.

[Boonskiies]

I think a lot of confusion with certain things stems from the familiarity with Normal Games, and how they've worked for a while, so things like Neighbor outside of the role is just weird because it's not really seen, when it's really just different.

I actually really liked Superstar for Role only, not Modifiers. I know you made it, and liked it for both, but I definitely specifically didn't want modifiers on this go around.

Had I let the modifier go through, Emp Flip would have been essentially an IC, imo.

[Boonskiies]

also, any reasons other than terminology that the role that is now known as Exploder was removed from the RoleBook?

idk but if I had to guess Exploder could be seen as meta-warping

I didn't like it enough to want it all the time available in the Role Book, and it had its time in the Boon Bank.

It's still able to be a variant, but I don't think it's a fun role, imo, except for some situations in Face to Face Mafia specifically.

Basically just a get out of jail free card for a scum who's already going down.

[Boonskiies]

There was a scum slip in the game thread. Let's see if it gets caught.

[Boonskiies]

They covered it up, but yeah.

[Boonskiies]

Welcome, Peregrine!

[Boonskiies]

I think you guys were in a good spot to win this game, and still could. STD push going through probably would have meant a scum victory.

Also one of your scum mates were killed Night 1, so it was an uphill battle, so I think a little bit rough is expected at that point. I was worried it was going to be waaaay too much, but you two were still definitely in the driver seat for a lot.

[Boonskiies]

in theory, town didnt have a lot of power that couldnt also help scum in certain situations as well. I'm not sure I would add a blocker into the game if I were to do it differently.

Probably unrecruitable traitor, but dont really like traitor either, so

[Boonskiies]

Paragrime death is gamelosing for mafia.

i see plays that could have happened/should have happened to make it not, but it's not necessarily easy, and would have had to be setting up. It's not impossible, but I dont think that STD wagon was fought for hard enough imo.

[Boonskiies]

Scum got scared of the next day phase when an STD->Malakittens fade chain was a pretty decent wincon imo.

Kill Klick after STD.

[Boonskiies]

Also, spoiler on a possibility of tonight

Spoiler:

Doctor Drew doctor'd Frogs last night, and Klick's role made it so that the doctor shot won't happen until tonight. So Frogs, if shot at, will be protected. I think a No Kill actually would go in Scum's favor, however, because Klick will get a fake guilty.

[Boonskiies]

Klick said it when they voted, 'if nobody is gonna push for anything', scum just really needed to push for a misfade there, and I think they would have won the game.

The opportunity for STD was there, but scum felt like distancing was the right play.

[Boonskiies]

I kind of get the Enchant kill, but at the same time, they were a claimed Vanilla, still a possible misfade possibility over some others, and Klick needed to die. I think a Klick kill also would have lead to a scum win there.

[Boonskiies]

Doctor Drew still need to "confirm" someone.

Definitely a hard win path here, which is why I think the Peregrine bus didn't make sense as a play.

The self hammer could have been a vote on STD, and then DD could have found a way to switch over too.

I think some type of stage fright hit them that day phase.

[Boonskiies]

This was what I like to call the pivot day. Yes, there's still more days, but this was the victory day basically.

So the fact that the scum team had the opportunity to win despite all the hardcomings, makes me feel like it worked a little better than I expected after Day 1.

That being said, I understand why it feels rough from a scum perspective too.

Just all things I'll be noting.

[Boonskiies]

I think the self-vote just makes it look like there was a bus + scum just kind of let Klick take the time to solve, and choose the direction.

Not to harp on scum at all, I think they played really well up until that point, but it became the most pivotal section in the game, and that's neat to me on a play analytical level.

[Boonskiies]

Night Action and possible endgame

Spoiler:

If Drew No Kills, or Kills Frogs, STD will be fake guiltied.

If they target anyone else for a kill, it’s game over.

[Boonskiies]

Yeah i think this game is going to town now. I don't think Drew can survive a final 3 no matter who he brings.

It would be final 4

Frogs, Norwegian, Malakittens, Doctor Drew

I think it is winnable in that scenario, but not necessarily easy.

At least, that’s what it should be. Don’t take the chance with Klick.

[Boonskiies]

Based on neighborhoods talk, everyone is thinking STD/Peregrine were distancing, which is cool to see Drew has done such a good job getting town read imo.

But a kill going through Klick will have an inno on STD.

[Boonskiies]

Got you, Enchant.

I think that the Klick/Alisae duo needed to be dealt with because they were a strong driving force for town.

They have like 10+ pages in their neighborhood.

Alisae used their 1-shot on them well.

[Boonskiies]

Klick was communicating back and forth in the neighborhoods well too.

If a no kill happens, I do think Norwegian gets back to being scum read based on knowing what was happening this night phase.

[Boonskiies]

Fun game to watch for sure, though

[Boonskiies]

Omg, it’s happening.

I’m excited.

[Boonskiies]

The bus might be the thing that saves scum after all.

[Boonskiies]

STD got false guiltied two nights in a row. Hot damn.

[Boonskiies]

Welcome STD!

[Boonskiies]

Norwegian in Neighborhood.

'Aite who just fooled me'

I think Klick, Malakittens, and Norwegian all become misfadeable now tbh.

This is such a cool endgame.

[Boonskiies]

I'm nomming that for Kodak Moment. Doctor Drew protected his own night killed because Klick delayed his action leading into a false guilty on Save the Dragons.

[Boonskiies]

I try to balance my games to get to this final day phase, because end of the day, that's when games are most even in a close back and forth.

I think this is a scum victory after that.

[Boonskiies]

I like meta as supplementary reasonings, but with the fact that if you can meta someone, they can play against their meta while playing against you as well.

[Boonskiies]

Unfortunately the platonic ideal of mafia for me requires each game to be played in a vacuum as if players never know each other but alas!!

that's always solid. I like when every single player knows every single player too, but that's admittedly harder, and more of a face to face multiple games type thing.

[Boonskiies]

I play strictly online but I understand that IRL play has an entirely different appeal and would be a lot more fun to identify visual and vocal anomalies and so on!!!

My playstyle in face to face is exactly the same, except there's no hesitation on what my energy is. I'm perpetually always smiling.

[Boonskiies]

People just can't see that with just text

[Boonskiies]

Klick and Alisae both think that Drew is impossible or more likely coming from town.

They both think it's Norwegian, and at the end of the day, I get it. Norwegian knew about STD being IDT'd, could have easily No Killed.

And Norwegian I bet thinks it's Klick.

Good on the scum team.

What an endgame, the slippery little Doctor.

[Boonskiies]

After a kill goes through, they can't No Kill either because of Drew's Weak Hider claim.

[Boonskiies]

This is the best I’ve seen of Drew scum.

[Boonskiies]

I will be very happy if we manage to win, my spirits were not high after night one!!!

i perhaps should have explained that i do not tend to survive games on this account and it was a burst of misplaced optimism that led me to think i might survive this game
in fact i have never survived to the end of a game as scum

i do however have a 100% win rate as scum so

Getting double night killed helped not clear any of the people who night killed you, though.

Firebringer’s Epiphany has been forgotten, though, it seems. But if it’s remembered, I think Klick gets faded tbh.

[Boonskiies]

Yeah, the not claiming weak, even if it was Malakittens is rough.

And they did get super lucky with the accidental no kill shenanigans.

[Boonskiies]

And ugh, Norwegian asked for replacement

[Boonskiies]

i think he's worried about possible Jailkeeper Frogs. Idk, though.

[Boonskiies]

i want him to just end, haha.

[Boonskiies]

Drew might've messed up big time at this point by not hammering.

[Boonskiies]

I think they still can win, depending on replacement, but they really need to frame it like it's a decision between Klick and Norwegian slot.

Rough rough replacement tbh.

Technically they always can play the 'he could have won by hammering' card, so just kinda running the motions now.

[Boonskiies]

Hit up a few people who asked to replace in earlier, but nobody replaced out of this game bar hydra/alts.

[Boonskiies]

Enchant's right, this ended up being a bastard game.

Interdimensional Traveler Role I meant to have the role be 'not informed about this.', but originally I had it be informed, so I changed it in like every single place except my Scrivener where I copy/pasted, and I copy/pasted my old version onto this game's signups, but it's different that Klick's Role PM.

OOF. Hopefully Drew just thinks he read it wrong, and doesn't check the Edit time.

Klick's Role PM does specifically state will not be informed of this.

[Boonskiies]

Well, other than that, this game ran pretty smoothly, I must say. I was even hard VLA for like 6 days.

I think I want to double down on this style of game, though. Basically, a regular game of Mafia, but the roles and setups are basically cartoonized looney toons style, which in theory, was the idea of BooneyToonz in the first place, but I don't think I've really been able to truly capture how to make that come across until this game, and I think that came about through revamping the BooneyToonz Rolebook. Was really the first time I've evolved it since I made the BT Discussion thread.

I'm going to do another game shortly after this one, if anyone's interested. I'm gonna take what parts weren't fun about this one, and try to see what I can do with that in mind.

[Boonskiies]

oh dear, mod errors suck

Not my first, won't be my last.

I just try to be transparent about as much as I can.

[Boonskiies]

I've been really thinking about what Enchant said in regards to the Mutations thing, and they're 100% correct.

I have an idea I'm going to try after this game's over, which is another reason I'm hyped for another one.

What does Double do?

[Boonskiies]

Yeah, I like it.

Balance is still important in BooneyToonz, but I see what you've been getting at, and yeah, I'm in the same boat.

It can be wacky and over the top with roles that wouldn't be in Normal Queue, however, they're still aiming for solid balance, and without things that can be, as you said, arbitrary.

I do really want Mutations to be a thing, I just feel it's been underdeveloped as a function, and will develop it further for more transparency going forward.

[Boonskiies]

oh and I'd call the Kraken's active ability a Compulsive Double Visitor instead of a Compulsive Split Visitor

Well, Split is also a 'Conditional Compulsive' modifier in its own right, so if you have the ability to target two separate targets, you must.

[Boonskiies]

Whereas, in theory, a Double modifier would allow them to target the same person twice in certain scenarios where that would make sense to do.

[Boonskiies]

I've been really thinking about what Enchant said in regards to the Mutations thing, and they're 100% correct.

And another thing.

All information shall be provided in rules. I shouldn't had asked mod about boon pool to learn it's not mandatory. I wanted to learn about this from rules.

It's in the BooneyToonz Guidelines, the Boon Pool.

[Boonskiies]

I guess saying old Normal Queue guidelines is a little outdated if people don't know those, so yeah, I can say it's not mandatory. When I wrote that up, it was a lot easier implied, but it's been a long time since those.

I won't count me saying 'there could be no power roles at all' in the introduction either.

[Boonskiies]

Always been an 'Up to 1 Boon Bank' role, if there's a second, can be a Variant. I will add that line specifically going forward because it's not easy to see.

Learning and evolving over time. There's a lot to it, and overtime the kinks will all be worked out, and then will just need to be oiled up every now and then.

[Boonskiies]

Yeah, it was already done.

Honestly, moment Drew accidentally protected against his own kill, the game was near in Drew’s corner.

Just what a happenstance. Town did not play bad. Imo, town played pretty well, overall I would say.

Anything that could be looked a little harder on, I understand why they happened.

[Boonskiies]

Like end of the day, Drew trolled us all by not hammering, but I think he was afraid of an unknown role, which is fair. He didn’t know what happened to caused the No Kill.

But it’s just a waiting game til Scum wins here.

The situation that happened with Klick and Norwegian is just something wild, and I 100% understand why they each could look like scum.

Technically, Firebringer’s Epiphany should clear Norwegian, though, and it does look like Klick set them all up, and made it to endgame by playing a strong manipulative game.

[Boonskiies]

I just think Klick looks like scum hard, and they know it too.

[Boonskiies]

Nah, Flippy wouldn’t have died if Peregrine was targeted by them because Ascetic.

[Boonskiies]

It's not trolling, Drew did right thing. If there's roleblocker/jail claim, i for example never try to get self killed like that. Better safe than sorry.

I was mostly kidding about it.

I’ve said it was fair, especially since he didn’t know what the hell was going on haha

[Boonskiies]

Yeah, ended up being great, right on par with most of my BT games. Like i said, for a moment I got worried that maybe since i hadn’t done it in a while, i was off, but i do like a generally lean town in BT game because it’s wacky enough for chaos to take over for scum

[Boonskiies]

"I don't rly know what this is based off of but from my perspective, hammertesting drew is immediately my best play."

unfortunately, not going to age well.

[Boonskiies]

It is town sided on a mech level, but there’s just a lot of town roles that do things, but don’t really do anything, so the high amount of town roles played against town here for sure.


I don’t think I would change anything with the given circumstances.

Yes, Mutations i would clear up more, but that took me this game to really see it, and see how I can do that, and what the next step I can take the BooneyToonz games.

But I do really like this balance wise.

I think I would give scum a little more power onto the Theta slot if I could do it differently, but even then. Scum were close to a victory even before the STD Blocked Kill shenanigans.

One of the more fun games I’ve modded to watch for sure.