Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[usesPython]

And also that's more scumreads than 50% of the playerlist when we were townhunting so idk why you uniquely expect so much from us

[Rautherdir]

We're still talking about mech?

VOTE: Rautherdir

Yes because I'm realizing that putting everyone in the nightmare is potentially a bad idea/suboptimal to a severe degree, and giving the explanation as to why.

[usesPython]

We're still talking about mech?

VOTE: Rautherdir

Yes because I'm realizing that putting everyone in the nightmare is potentially a bad idea/suboptimal to a severe degree, and giving the explanation as to why.

Who do you think is town?

[Rautherdir]

I'm gonna have to do a read over the game again. Drew I think so far is being town drew though. I am unfortunately pretty bad at early game reads, so... will take me a bit to get things sorted.

[camelCasedSnivy]

And also that's more scumreads than 50% of the playerlist when we were townhunting so idk why you uniquely expect so much from us

you were the one who said you had reads listed out beforehand so I simply asked for one other than your push

[WhemeStar]

I forgot this game exists oopsie daisey

[Merlyn]

Yes because I'm realizing that putting everyone in the nightmare is potentially a bad idea/suboptimal to a severe degree, and giving the explanation as to why.

What was the explanation again? I went back through the last handful of your posts but I'm missing it

[Korina]

Looking through Enchant's posts, it would seem Enchant has decided to siteflake. Instead of waiting out the time, I'm going to go ahead and replace Enchant now. Seeking a replacement now. I will pause deadline in (expired on 2023-07-05 17:00:00) if no replacement is found by this time.

[Korina]

VC 1.6

WhemeStar (3):

Aureal, Titus, usesPython

Doctor Drew (2):

Merlyn, Rautherdir

DragonEater70 (2):

Ranger, sheepsaysmeep

Aureal (2):

Abnegation, Morning Tweet

usesPython (1):

camelCasedSnivy

camelCasedSnivy (1):

biancospino

Abnegation (1):

Doctor Drew

biancospino (1):

DragonEater70

Rauthedir (1):

Radical Rat

Save the Dragons (0):

Ranger (0):

Radical Rat (0):

Enchant (0):

Morning Tweet (0):

Titus (0):

Flea the Magician (0):

Kyoko Kirigiri (0):

Merlyn (0):

sheepsaysmeep (0):

Not Voting (5):

Enchant, Flea the Magician, Save the Dragons, WhemeStar, Kyoko Kirigiri

With

19

known votes, it takes

10

of them to achieve a majority.

Deadline is in:

(expired on 2023-07-16 11:00:00)

Moderator Notes:

- Enchant is being replaced.
- Titus is V/LA from July 6th, 2023 till July 7th, 2023.

Nightmare

Radical Rat's proposal: [Literally Everyone] (5):

Radical Rat, Merlyn, Abnegation, DragonEater70, Save The Dragons

biancospino's proposal: [biancospino, usesPython, camelCasedSnivy, Doctor Drew, Abnegation] (1):

biancospino

DragonEater70's proposal: [DragonEater70, usesPython, Abnegation, Aureal, Titus] (1):

DragonEater70

Ranger's proposal: [ Ranger, usesPython, Doctor Drew, Save The Dragons, Abnegation, Aureal, Merlyn, camelCasedSnivy, Titus, biancospino] (1):

Ranger

usesPython's proposal: [usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation] (1):

usesPython

camelCasedSnivy's proposal: [camelCasedSnivy, Ranger, Merlyn, Doctor Drew, Abnegation, Radical Rat] (1):

camelCasedSnivy

With

19

known votes, it takes

10

of them to achieve a majority.
Nobody is confirmed to run the Nightmare.

Spoiler: Pronouns

Pronoun Key

Later

Spoiler: Votes I'm Mentioning For Some Reason (EMPTY)

Empty

[Korina]

Definitely good to double check though

@Mod

I just saw this: If it's on the Normal Guidelines page, and I could reasonably find it in a Normal, it's ok. If I think I would have to message implosion for if it could be considered Normal, it's

not

normal. FWIW, I will openly state if I think a role is non-normal if players are attempting to award a non-normal role.

[Korina]

About passive roles.

Giving out passives as inventions is a bit fuzzy. It's not even clear what a "1-shot [passive role]" means in general. For IC is ok, just make it an activated IC instead, but "activated [negative utility]" just does nothing as the invention's holder will just not activate it. It's well defined what, say, 1-shot BP means, but e.g. 1-shot X-Enabler not so much.

@mod, can the Nightmare award passive normal roles as Inventions? If yes, how does the invention version of a passive role behave exactly?

Is Vengeful considered a passive role, or an active role that acts during Twilight?

Are Bulletproof, Ascetic conidered roles or modifiers?

p-e: CL-Enabler is clearly not a normal role, why are we even talking about it

1) Yes, that is acceptable. It would be awarded as a 1-Shot invention, and would trigger on the first instance of the role being useful. (Eg., Bulletproof would trigger if the player is attacked at night.)
2) Vengeful is considered an active role, and would trigger if the player is eliminated, and would force the game into twilight.
3) Bulletproof and Ascetic are both considered modifiers, due to their commonality of being a role modifier, and not a role in of itself, (at least from what I've seen.)
(Additional edit to this one that further supports the decision: Under Normal Guidelines both Bulletproof and Ascetic are listed under the modifiers category, and would be treated as a modifier.)

[Radical Rat]

what would we get out of wagoning someone who is just gonna get prodded and replaced? (because they haven't posted)

I agree with this. If WhemeStar shows up, I'd be down to wagon though.

In the meantime, consider Rautherdir. You'll have to read the mech talk, but like. His contributions to the discussion have been focused around finding any excuse possible to not create Bulletproof ICs, in a manner beyond the expected concerns about legality.

In particular, I'd highlight the repeated suggestion of sacrificing not only Bulletproof but ANY useful modifier in favor of a day restriction that we know would be irrelevant when the ICs are just open to being shot anyway. That's not just a bad idea, it's a malicious one, especially when so many of his other suggestions are just ways to make a worse IC.

[Rautherdir]

I thought bulletproof IC would be impossible. I stand corrected.

[Radical Rat]

But you weren't arguing that, at least not primarily. You were trying to suggest a string of obviously worse abilities as being somehow better.

[Rautherdir]

I was? And suggesting alternatives under the assumption bulletproof wouldn't work

[Radical Rat]

Well, that's not how it appeared to me

[Rautherdir]

I... don't see bulletproof as a modifier, it's a passive role in my book. But we're asking korina so.

If it affects you, the player, directly, it's a role. If it affects one of your roles, it's a modifier.

Well it's what I meant by these, so.

[Radical Rat]

These suggestions are all just "IC but made worse" being peddled as "best strategies."

Yeah. And I mean. We could even make it compulsive IC actually.

Hmm.... day 4 ICs maybe?

With everyone in the Nightmare chat....

Day 4 or Day 5 ICs I think might be the best strategy. Cult can't recruit them until after they get revealed, if town then scum is forced to kill the targets early and basically hand their kill over to town's control, or they get to deal with a wave of conf town all at once and have to pick and choose between them afterwards...
I'm not sure how many night kills are in play right now so day 4 is probably the safer bet.

Tree Stumps is... conditionally better depending on the circumstances of a players death. if an investigative dies without having revealed information we might want to let them share their results for example.

Vig is potentially good as well but probably less valuable then either of the above.

If we can get a large solid town block early then Housing might be good.

And this one is a potentially viable alternative, situationally, but your suggestion of BP as a modifier indicates that you did accept it as valid, and your suggestions were not actually based on the assumption it was illegal.

BP doctor or such might be conditionally useful once we have more of a town block.

[camelCasedSnivy]

python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list

biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

[Ranger]

Recurring V/LA Sunday - Monday through July

Those 2 days won’t be pleasant for me this month.

[Doctor Drew]

Can we just policy the next person to keep talking about mech today?

I am not used to this python.

I like it, but not used to it.

[Doctor Drew]

Also liking Titus here, been a bit where I can say she is town and it feels refreshing.

[Korina]

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

This is an error and has been fixed.

[Korina]

KatyKimFanClub replaces Enchant, effective right now. Due to the fact I will be working 4th of July, I am also adding 24 hours to the deadline to account for the fact I will be working that day, and will be unavailable for a large portion of the day for VCs, and the fact that anyone in the US likely has plans for that day. New deadline is in (expired on 2023-07-16 11:00:00)

[KatyKimFanClub]

Hey everyone,

Reading over stuff now.