Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Abnegation]

i think it means we can add a player to the nightmare even after the people in the initial proposal have been confirmed.

it took me that long to altslip?

17 pages might be the longest i've made it.

[usesPython]

HEAL: previous proposal

HURT: abnegation, aureal, radical rat, usespython, kyoko kirigiri, dragoneater70, ranger

basically python's proposal except titus didn't want in so i changed it. not sure about every name on this list but i'll go with it for now.

to be fair if we're trying to go for a full town nightmare then town!Titus not wanting in due to being V/LA doesn't actually matter since she'd just be there as a body to get enough people for the BP IC invention

[DragonEater70]

Wassup, I have some more time now so I'm gonna do a catchup.

Can we just policy the next person to keep talking about mech today?

I like this idea.

I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare

HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation

Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now

Also this one.
HURT: Python's suggestion

Honestly I can probably guess the answer to that question of mine though since it uh. Removes any balance concerns about if there is a strategy that works regardless of if people are doing town hunting or not. Best we can do with Inquiry to confirm alignments without any extra information (like validating a claim someone made), is a public gunsmith effectively, which... isn't especially useful.

The latter, if interfered with, also gives us some information about the players in the nightmare as well especially.

These posts kinda feel to me like scum!Rauther from Mini 2297 (AKA Conception). @Abnegation, Drew, Bianco, do you agree?
VOTE: Rauther
(but still FoSing Bianco)

I forgot this game exists oopsie daisey

IDK if it's actually scummy or am just annoyed, but I don't like this post (edit: nor the followup post with no content).

what would we get out of wagoning someone who is just gonna get prodded and replaced? (because they haven't posted)

I agree with this. If WhemeStar shows up, I'd be down to wagon though.

In the meantime, consider Rautherdir. You'll have to read the mech talk, but like. His contributions to the discussion have been focused around finding any excuse possible to not create Bulletproof ICs, in a manner beyond the expected concerns about legality.

In particular, I'd highlight the repeated suggestion of sacrificing not only Bulletproof but ANY useful modifier in favor of a day restriction that we know would be irrelevant when the ICs are just open to being shot anyway. That's not just a bad idea, it's a malicious one, especially when so many of his other suggestions are just ways to make a worse IC.

This push feels townie. So plus town points for Rat.

python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list

biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

Why do you see Python as scummy? I think Python is the towniest player so far. Agree on Bianco and Rauth.

I notice a lot of talk about finding trustworthy people to put in the Nightmare. I would like to say that I am town, thus feel free to put me in there, coach(es).

I like your boldness. +town.

depressingly null then, maybe even slightly wolfy

the iso is fairly devoid of like original contribution, I just liked the confident tone lol

Agreed RE Abnegation.

also, rat and python are people who i will probably just throw in the townbin and not look back.

Who are your scumreads?

I don't get all the people saying it's town!dragon. Any links to read where he does this as town? In fact, 43 and 47 seems like a specific evolution of this trope to make him look towny. Not really a scumread but more of a at this point.

It's not "Dragon's talking in this game like town!Dragon normally does, therefore Dragon's town", it's "town!Dragon sounds LAMIST as hell normally so tone-reading him as scum off of that is a bad read"

Oh, really? I'm kinda sad to hear that because I try not to focus on looking towny, and focus on reads instead. But I guess it's not working

ok I read the game

dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now). but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question

idk who said it feels like town!dragoneater from a previous game but I'll second the fact that this is just how he talks

think that was kirigiri, and i will third the fact that this is just how he talks.

Eater of Dragons, First of His Name, Breaker of Scum Reads......shall be town for now.

I normally try to avoid questioning people's townreads on me (okay, that's a lie), but I really wanna know something:
Do you actually tr me or are you just sheeping the other guys?

[Abnegation]

HEAL: previous proposal

HURT: abnegation, aureal, radical rat, usespython, kyoko kirigiri, dragoneater70, ranger

basically python's proposal except titus didn't want in so i changed it. not sure about every name on this list but i'll go with it for now.

to be fair if we're trying to go for a full town nightmare then town!Titus not wanting in due to being V/LA doesn't actually matter since she'd just be there as a body to get enough people for the BP IC invention

true, true. i do like that proposal better if we're just handing out bp ic inventions.

HEAL: previous proposal

HURT: abnegation, aureal, radical rat, usespython, kyoko kirigiri, dragoneater70, titus

[camelCasedSnivy]

python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list

biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

Why do you see Python as scummy? I think Python is the towniest player so far. Agree on Bianco and Rauth.

Python at the beginning didn't give me any reads, and then proceeded to go into that 8 page long discussion on inventions, while claiming they had reads. Rauth was a part of that too, but apparently its only scummy when they do it?? Unless there's something else to them than what I scumread them for

[camelCasedSnivy]

why do i manage to screw up the tags in every single post I make

[DragonEater70]

ok I read the game

dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now). but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question

ranger - I think they are lightly villagery. their first readlists aligned a lotttt with what I was feeling in early pages.

radical rat - I like their push that rauth is too obsessed with finding the IC alternatives. like it is a just a good push. it actually makes me feel more RR!town than rauth!wolf; im slightly skeptical of it as making rauth wolf because it's almost too egregious (python saying "I'll policy the next person to talk about mech" and then rauth keeps talking about mech feels like something wolves might want to avoid ??)

usespython - when I was just lurking they felt like 99% obvtown on vibes. when I read through it's more meh but still prob just town

morning tweet - gut says slightly scummy. I just thought her takes were mid in 150 I was not feeling them lol

Titus - if I had to force a read their vibe fits with what I understand of their town meta lol but meh

Kyoko - if this is their first time trying the weird scum meter thing (if I didnt misunderstand) then I'd honestly give a couple town points lmao. otherwise very meh

snivy - feels pretty wolf. in general their early posting was the most stiff. treatment of ranger feels like buddying ("wow you're doing readlists every post?! that's so game-advancing and towny" for something I think is fairly clearly predetermined playstyle).

abnegation - my gut says this is what I think newer-player villagers look like

I like the fact that you are SRing Morning Tweet for her takes - I agree they don't feel very thought out or townie. Also, she's lurking which I think is off her town meta (though I can't say for sure because she was third party last time we played).

ok he is being villagery VOTE: Abnegation

Please give us your thoughts on Abnegation.

[DragonEater70]

i think it means we can add a player to the nightmare even after the people in the initial proposal have been confirmed.

it took me that long to altslip?

I was also surprised

17 pages might be the longest i've made it.

Nah that's 16.

[DragonEater70]

HEAL: previous proposal

HURT: abnegation, aureal, radical rat, usespython, kyoko kirigiri, dragoneater70, ranger

basically python's proposal except titus didn't want in so i changed it. not sure about every name on this list but i'll go with it for now.

to be fair if we're trying to go for a full town nightmare then town!Titus not wanting in due to being V/LA doesn't actually matter since she'd just be there as a body to get enough people for the BP IC invention

^^

[Abnegation]

Honestly I can probably guess the answer to that question of mine though since it uh. Removes any balance concerns about if there is a strategy that works regardless of if people are doing town hunting or not. Best we can do with Inquiry to confirm alignments without any extra information (like validating a claim someone made), is a public gunsmith effectively, which... isn't especially useful.

The latter, if interfered with, also gives us some information about the players in the nightmare as well especially.

These posts kinda feel to me like scum!Rauther from Mini 2297 (AKA Conception). @Abnegation, Drew, Bianco, do you agree?

i'd have to go read and i don't feel like going back through conception right now. rauther does seem similar to conception in general, but i wrote that off as just their playstyle.
what about those posts specifically reminds you of it?

also, rat and python are people who i will probably just throw in the townbin and not look back.

Who are your scumreads?

i don't exactly

scumread

anyone, but rauther is a bit sussy for the bp ic thing that rat called him out for and drew is a bit sussy because reasons. i'm going to sit on that read and see how things progress though.
if we're going into "you get 1/28 of a scumpoint" territory, whemestar and save the dragons feel slightly shady by vibes.

[DragonEater70]

python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list

biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

Why do you see Python as scummy? I think Python is the towniest player so far. Agree on Bianco and Rauth.

Python at the beginning didn't give me any reads, and then proceeded to go into that 8 page long discussion on inventions, while claiming they had reads. Rauth was a part of that too, but apparently its only scummy when they do it?? Unless there's something else to them than what I scumread them for

First, there's a difference in vibes/meta. usesPython is KNOWN for talking about mech, always. Look at their completed games, it's kinda crazy sometimes the mech talk they do. But in this specific game I get a villagery vibe from their posts, even if they are mostly about mech. And they are actually going somewhere with the mech and trying to figure things out, which is townie in my eyes.
On the other hand, Rauther's posts feel like they are talking about mech so they have something to talk about and are not lurking. This is scummy. You should be having plenty to talk about as town, you don't need to force yourself to talk (IMO).

Second point, usesPython has given reads? Maybe they didn't type them out but it's pretty clear who they SR and who they TR:

VOTE: WhemeStar

VOTE: Rautherdir

VOTE: WhemeStar

Serious Vote btw

I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare

HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation

Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now

[Abnegation]

python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list

biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

Why do you see Python as scummy? I think Python is the towniest player so far. Agree on Bianco and Rauth.

Python at the beginning didn't give me any reads, and then proceeded to go into that 8 page long discussion on inventions, while claiming they had reads. Rauth was a part of that too, but apparently its only scummy when they do it?? Unless there's something else to them than what I scumread them for

First, there's a difference in vibes/meta. usesPython is KNOWN for talking about mech, always. Look at their completed games, it's kinda crazy sometimes the mech talk they do. But in this specific game I get a villagery vibe from their posts, even if they are mostly about mech. And they are actually going somewhere with the mech and trying to figure things out, which is townie in my eyes.
On the other hand, Rauther's posts feel like they are talking about mech so they have something to talk about and are not lurking. This is scummy. You should be having plenty to talk about as town, you don't need to force yourself to talk (IMO).

Second point, usesPython has given reads? Maybe they didn't type them out but it's pretty clear who they SR and who they TR:

VOTE: WhemeStar

VOTE: Rautherdir

VOTE: WhemeStar

Serious Vote btw

I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare

HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation

Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now

something something nuanced takes town vibes. i like this.

[DragonEater70]

what about those posts specifically reminds you of it?

I actually forgot to quote the middle post as well, whoops. Lemmie just quote the whole thing and then I'll answer:

Honestly I can probably guess the answer to that question of mine though since it uh. Removes any balance concerns about if there is a strategy that works regardless of if people are doing town hunting or not. Best we can do with Inquiry to confirm alignments without any extra information (like validating a claim someone made), is a public gunsmith effectively, which... isn't especially useful.

I mean public gunsmith is useful, but I think a lot less then just. Trying to do a smaller nightmare and doing a different ability. Hmm.

HEAL: Radical Rat

The latter, if interfered with, also gives us some information about the players in the nightmare as well especially.

Basically, what reminds me of Conception is the fact that they are kinda rambling to themself about mech rather than actually engaging with other players? And second guessing themself?
Compare with Conception:

Spoiler: random rambling about what 'Bendediction' is

Green role color + an inherently non-antagonistic sounding name (Especially compared to Malediction) did not scream as being scum to me personally.

But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.

Well. I might have still done it actually.
This was a decent way to break out of RVS I think, and I like doing stuff like that.

.... Actually wait.

I just realized the pattern of the three faction names.

Benedictions and maledictions are both subsets of invocations. Respectively, invocations for blessings and curses. Each of the concepts are as removed from invocations in general as the other is, with invocations being neutral.

.... I'm not sure what significance this has if any.

At the very least this suggests Benediction and Malediction are antagonistic to each other I guess?

I should stop trying to use flavor to figure out things though cause I know it can't be used that way now.

Well, maybe flavor can still tell us about the setup and what the persuasions of the factions towards each other are, just not what any specific player is, on second glance.

Spoiler: Random rambling about their role

I will say my role name sounds much more powerful then the actual ability actually is. I'm actually not sure at all how to use my role to any benefit, though it is role madness so uh... maybe there's some use to even something like what I have?

I'm not even sure what my role would be called in a more conventional game. (And thus don't know where on the wiki to look for play advice for, if there even is an equivalent for it) Half tempted to claim just to ask for help in how to even use it properly. This was the first time I've ever not been able to reply to my role pm with the normal equivalent of my role through any combination of modifiers and roles.

Still tempted to claim so that I can get info on how to even use my role effectively. I probably shouldn't so that I can be one of the less critical roles to eat a night kill but. I can just try to be town to eat a night kill instead soooo actually let me just claim.

I am a manifestation of Confirmation. I have the option to target a player each night to check if my action was successful.

I have no idea how this is even useful, and not even sure what the role is even called normally if it is an actual defined role in the wiki. Closest I could find was Visitor, but none of the modifiers function in a way to make it work like that.

Ack, wish I'd known what it would have been called earlier. And this somehow counts as an investigative role. Which I guess it does reveal something, just... wow.
I guess I should still activate it on nights to get even that little bit of information, and I guess there are a few claims I would be able to check more safely then other investigatives based on the wiki.

This suggests there are role blocking abilities and/or modifiers though, so... there's that.

Maybe a rolestopper or ascetic I could still see, but... yeah. I mean I had no idea how to use my ability effectively anyways so uh... it was either claim to figure out how to even use my role or try and figure it out myself.

Well, the least I can do at this point is try and be helpful enough to town that I get shot for that reason.

And hey, I might still get roleblocked if someone wants to fake an ascetic claim.

This is true, and I spent a while (before game started even) debating if I should claim to get knowledge on how to use my role or not. I just had no idea how to play my role, I couldn't figure out what the equivalent role was on the wiki and was thus bereft of any play advice from there.

The information that there are almost certainly roles that prevent actions from working is I think more valuable then keeping my role hidden as well, in retrospect. Plus, I can try to be as helpful to town as possible in order to eat a night kill for that reason even if not a powerful role. (The trick of course, is doing that, which I might not have the best track record of.)

I can do stuff like check ascetic or vet claims at least. Or just... gather information in general about other actions in play maybe.

OH HEY something I can check.

... I mean you've already been confirmed to be Invocation so I'm not sure I need to check that, but. Still.

[camelCasedSnivy]

Second point, usesPython has given reads? Maybe they didn't type them out but it's pretty clear who they SR and who they TR:

I meant other than Wheme since I thought voting someone who hasn't made a single post was pretty counterproductive. Other reasoning looks fine

[Abnegation]

what about those posts specifically reminds you of it?

I actually forgot to quote the middle post as well, whoops. Lemmie just quote the whole thing and then I'll answer:

Honestly I can probably guess the answer to that question of mine though since it uh. Removes any balance concerns about if there is a strategy that works regardless of if people are doing town hunting or not. Best we can do with Inquiry to confirm alignments without any extra information (like validating a claim someone made), is a public gunsmith effectively, which... isn't especially useful.

I mean public gunsmith is useful, but I think a lot less then just. Trying to do a smaller nightmare and doing a different ability. Hmm.

HEAL: Radical Rat

The latter, if interfered with, also gives us some information about the players in the nightmare as well especially.

Basically, what reminds me of Conception is the fact that they are kinda rambling to themself about mech rather than actually engaging with other players? And second guessing themself?
Compare with Conception:

Spoiler: random rambling about what 'Bendediction' is

Green role color + an inherently non-antagonistic sounding name (Especially compared to Malediction) did not scream as being scum to me personally.

But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.

Well. I might have still done it actually.
This was a decent way to break out of RVS I think, and I like doing stuff like that.

.... Actually wait.

I just realized the pattern of the three faction names.

Benedictions and maledictions are both subsets of invocations. Respectively, invocations for blessings and curses. Each of the concepts are as removed from invocations in general as the other is, with invocations being neutral.

.... I'm not sure what significance this has if any.

At the very least this suggests Benediction and Malediction are antagonistic to each other I guess?

I should stop trying to use flavor to figure out things though cause I know it can't be used that way now.

Well, maybe flavor can still tell us about the setup and what the persuasions of the factions towards each other are, just not what any specific player is, on second glance.

Spoiler: Random rambling about their role

I will say my role name sounds much more powerful then the actual ability actually is. I'm actually not sure at all how to use my role to any benefit, though it is role madness so uh... maybe there's some use to even something like what I have?

I'm not even sure what my role would be called in a more conventional game. (And thus don't know where on the wiki to look for play advice for, if there even is an equivalent for it) Half tempted to claim just to ask for help in how to even use it properly. This was the first time I've ever not been able to reply to my role pm with the normal equivalent of my role through any combination of modifiers and roles.

Still tempted to claim so that I can get info on how to even use my role effectively. I probably shouldn't so that I can be one of the less critical roles to eat a night kill but. I can just try to be town to eat a night kill instead soooo actually let me just claim.

I am a manifestation of Confirmation. I have the option to target a player each night to check if my action was successful.

I have no idea how this is even useful, and not even sure what the role is even called normally if it is an actual defined role in the wiki. Closest I could find was Visitor, but none of the modifiers function in a way to make it work like that.

Ack, wish I'd known what it would have been called earlier. And this somehow counts as an investigative role. Which I guess it does reveal something, just... wow.
I guess I should still activate it on nights to get even that little bit of information, and I guess there are a few claims I would be able to check more safely then other investigatives based on the wiki.

This suggests there are role blocking abilities and/or modifiers though, so... there's that.

Maybe a rolestopper or ascetic I could still see, but... yeah. I mean I had no idea how to use my ability effectively anyways so uh... it was either claim to figure out how to even use my role or try and figure it out myself.

Well, the least I can do at this point is try and be helpful enough to town that I get shot for that reason.

And hey, I might still get roleblocked if someone wants to fake an ascetic claim.

This is true, and I spent a while (before game started even) debating if I should claim to get knowledge on how to use my role or not. I just had no idea how to play my role, I couldn't figure out what the equivalent role was on the wiki and was thus bereft of any play advice from there.

The information that there are almost certainly roles that prevent actions from working is I think more valuable then keeping my role hidden as well, in retrospect. Plus, I can try to be as helpful to town as possible in order to eat a night kill for that reason even if not a powerful role. (The trick of course, is doing that, which I might not have the best track record of.)

I can do stuff like check ascetic or vet claims at least. Or just... gather information in general about other actions in play maybe.

OH HEY something I can check.

... I mean you've already been confirmed to be Invocation so I'm not sure I need to check that, but. Still.

i see the connection now.
i did play a game with them where they were town and they did less of that d1, but it was a normal so it's not the best comparison.

[usesPython]

Second point, usesPython has given reads? Maybe they didn't type them out but it's pretty clear who they SR and who they TR:

I meant other than Wheme since I thought voting someone who hasn't made a single post was pretty counterproductive. Other reasoning looks fine

...Do you like not consider TR's as actual reads?

[Rautherdir]

.... wow is me playing to my town meta in Conception really going to screw me over twice?

But really there isn't much I can do to defend myself against the original argument for why I'm scum even if I wanted to.
I'm being scum read for having bad takes and not clarifying my assumptions with every mech post I make. All I can do now is try and look at everyone else and get reads... which early on I'm terrible at.

For what it's worth I think there's a chance at least one scum is pushing me, I'm just trying to figure out why. DragonEater I don't think is that though, and I like a lot of what else they're posting. Drew I'm going to agree with Ranger on and keep them as town... Python and Radical Rat I think were decent enough though the latter should probably be resolved one way or another at some point due to their claim. THOUGH. I believe we can actually do that without flipping them... by using Inquiry to ask if Radical Rat would investigate as an alignment they are not. (Doesn't actually confirm alignment on it's own since both scum and town can have roles that can do this.) That leaves... Aureal and Abnegation... Abnegation I'm... not sure about... I don't see much in the way that leans me town or scum from them. Aureal is just... not present mostly? Hmm. Let me look elsewhere as well, but.

HURT: Doctor Drew, DragonEater, UsesPython, RadicalRat, Ranger
I'll expand it to seven later once I get more town reads and probably change the list some, but. There's an initial list of people I think are town.

VOTE: Aureal
If anything just to get you to do a bit more in the game.

[Rautherdir]

i did play a game with them where they were town and they did less of that d1, but it was a normal so it's not the best comparison.

I will note that me and Theta don't... quite play the same way, and I personally don't think meta from one account applies well to the other account.
I mean you can try, I won't stop you, but. I intentionally play with different mindsets on my different accounts.

[Abnegation]

i did play a game with them where they were town and they did less of that d1, but it was a normal so it's not the best comparison.

I will note that me and Theta don't... quite play the same way, and I personally don't think meta from one account applies well to the other account.
I mean you can try, I won't stop you, but. I intentionally play with different mindsets on my different accounts.

to be clear, i'm not actually scumreading you for dragon's meta. i was just commenting that i get where they're coming from and brought up the other game because i looked at it just to see if i could find anything there that would support or oppose what they had said. i'll believe you when you say your playstyle and mindset are different on your alt, though, so there isn't much point for me to continue to look at meta stuff.

[Rautherdir]

Yeah unfortunately the only recent game I have on this account is... well, conception, where I was self-admittedly playing to my town meta as scum. So... even if I'm in accordance with the same meta here, I've proven I can do it as scum or town but most recently as scum, so.

I apparently have not learned my lesson from my other account that I should just lurk through day one though. Too excited about open mech discussion to be had.

[Radical Rat]

.... wow is me playing to my town meta in Conception really going to screw me over twice?

But really there isn't much I can do to defend myself against the original argument for why I'm scum even if I wanted to.
I'm being scum read for having bad takes and not clarifying my assumptions with every mech post I make. All I can do now is try and look at everyone else and get reads... which early on I'm terrible at.

For what it's worth I think there's a chance at least one scum is pushing me, I'm just trying to figure out why. DragonEater I don't think is that though, and I like a lot of what else they're posting. Drew I'm going to agree with Ranger on and keep them as town... Python and Radical Rat I think were decent enough though the latter should probably be resolved one way or another at some point due to their claim. THOUGH. I believe we can actually do that without flipping them... by using Inquiry to ask if Radical Rat would investigate as an alignment they are not. (Doesn't actually confirm alignment on it's own since both scum and town can have roles that can do this.) That leaves... Aureal and Abnegation... Abnegation I'm... not sure about... I don't see much in the way that leans me town or scum from them. Aureal is just... not present mostly? Hmm. Let me look elsewhere as well, but.

HURT: Doctor Drew, DragonEater, UsesPython, RadicalRat, Ranger
I'll expand it to seven later once I get more town reads and probably change the list some, but. There's an initial list of people I think are town.

VOTE: Aureal
If anything just to get you to do a bit more in the game.

Sure, we could waste a Nightmare on an inquiry that doesn't actually tell you anything useful, or we could y'know. ACTUALLY confirm alignment?

This is what I'm talking about. We've already established Bulletproof IC is legal, and while I am open to alternative ideas if there's something better I'm overlooking, you just keep trying to insist we do objectively worse things instead.

Does a Townie really get handed the possibility of Bulletproof IC and think "Hmmm, I'd rather have a weaker investigation and no protection"???

[Rautherdir]

.... Confirming that a claimed Miller would investigate as a different alignment isn't alignment confirming? That's news to me.
Inquiry might also be one of the only Nightmare powers that can't be redirected or rolestopped though, so. Given a role stop on an IC invention would be a fake guilty...

[Radical Rat]

It isn't confirming, no. It's close, but there are edge cases.

A rolestop is theoretically possible, but this setup falls apart pretty quick if scum can just completely negate the primary gimmick, so even if they have one I don't think it would apply to the Nightmare, and even if it did, why would it only apply to the invention?

[Rautherdir]

It isn't confirming, no. It's close, but there are edge cases.

A rolestop is theoretically possible, but this setup falls apart pretty quick if scum can just completely negate the primary gimmick, so even if they have one I don't think it would apply to the Nightmare, and even if it did, why would it only apply to the invention?

I mean I have a pending question to Korina for confirmation on what the 'award' text means for if it's an ability that can be messed with or not. I'm just guessing given the power the nightmare has, that if scum knows what will happen they have a way to mess with it. Making it important for us to put town into the nightmare. A redirect/deflector I think is more likely then a rolestop though.

[usesPython]

Why the hell are we still talking about mech

1 billion votes on Rauth please