Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Ranger]

How confident are you on KKFC? He's pretty nullish for me

All of my reads except on you are fairly fluid at this point. I'm both very sure, yet not sure at all on KKFC. Within the framework of my reads, I'm very confident in KatyKimFanClub being town. I saw the scumgame and this game doesn't resemble it. I have hard town vibes. I like KKFC's content. I'm as sure as I can be right now.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I need her to show me that she had a thought process for dropping me in her read list more than I need her to explain what was that signaling about.

[usesPython]

HEAL: old vote
HURT: Doctor Drew, usesPython, Ranger, Abnegation, Radical Rat, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal

We can be convinced to drop KKFC and Aureal but the rest I want in right now

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

With everyone in the Nightmare chat....

Day 4 or Day 5 ICs I think might be the best strategy. Cult can't recruit them until after they get revealed, if town then scum is forced to kill the targets early and basically hand their kill over to town's control, or they get to deal with a wave of conf town all at once and have to pick and choose between them afterwards...
I'm not sure how many night kills are in play right now so day 4 is probably the safer bet.

Tree Stumps is... conditionally better depending on the circumstances of a players death. if an investigative dies without having revealed information we might want to let them share their results for example.

Vig is potentially good as well but probably less valuable then either of the above.

If we can get a large solid town block early then Housing might be good.

IC is good in every day in same manner. The ic result is only pure and valid on next day phase in a bastard game and its its purpose. tree stump can be good if someone with "results" die an early death clearly.

I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare

HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation

Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now

This was a good vote

Also wdym no content? I know it's diluted from hyperposting but we've made our reads pretty clear and even bothered explaining some of them

...who's we?

also who else is scum/scumlean to you OTHER than wheme?

We're plural

Also Rautherdir's a scumlean just less than Wheme, which hopefully should have been obvious given that we voted there before we even talked about policying anyone

can you elaborate on wheme and rauth reads you had here like 1 sentence about each?

[usesPython]

can you elaborate on wheme and rauth reads you had here like 1 sentence about each?

uhhh Wheme confirmed and was available to post but wasn't posting so that was sus and Rauth I'm pretty sure was for similar reasons as Radical Rat but I'd need to double check cause I don't actually remember

[Ranger]

then would you mind elaborating on this "reason" you have for scum reading me or making up something fast about it in your next post? cause you only have a limited time to convince me this interaction is not fake af and is just because you're scum, and essentially force me to tunnel you.

Quite simply,
Most of your reads and takes are very easy. You're making very easy takes. Perhaps the closest you have to a non-consensus take is DragonEater being town; even this is, per your alleged place in the thread, a consensus read because up until a few pages ago, DragonEater was seen widely as town.

Your focus on me is forced. Your decision I couldn't be a traitor and must therefore be some form of 3p is from a scum mindset, because town players don't focus on 3ps; scum do. You've largely abandoned your catchup, yet appear to still be informed about things which you shouldn't be if you had abandoned it.

If I'm not a traitor, the options are {groupscum, 3p, town}. If groupscum, then the question becomes what kind of groupscum needs to signal. Admittedly, url=viewtopic.php?p=13622223&f=90&t=90209&u ... #p13622223]I've signaled to the other scumteam as scum before[/url]. You allegedly wouldn't have knowledge of this, so you shouldn't have thought groupscum signaling to groupscum.

If 3p, then why the focus on 3ps on D1? 3ps aren't scum.

If town, then why focus on me at all? Town players with something to hide are still, fundamentally, town.

Your decision to focus on me is vastly +scum, because there's no "gotcha scum" which can result from the push. It's forced aggression. You're pursuing something you're aware looks good, yet could never result in anything tangibly beneficial to the town. It's opportunistic, because of the players having mounting doubts about me.

And simply put; if you were town, I wouldn't expect you to focus on something meaningless which is self-evidently fruitless, rather than pursuing players on their reads and stated reasons.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list

biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

Elaborate on every single read you posted here (about how you were thinking then please)

ok I read the game

dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now). but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question

ranger - I think they are lightly villagery. their first readlists aligned a lotttt with what I was feeling in early pages.

radical rat - I like their push that rauth is too obsessed with finding the IC alternatives. like it is a just a good push. it actually makes me feel more RR!town than rauth!wolf; im slightly skeptical of it as making rauth wolf because it's almost too egregious (python saying "I'll policy the next person to talk about mech" and then rauth keeps talking about mech feels like something wolves might want to avoid ??)

usespython - when I was just lurking they felt like 99% obvtown on vibes. when I read through it's more meh but still prob just town

morning tweet - gut says slightly scummy. I just thought her takes were mid in 150 I was not feeling them lol

Titus - if I had to force a read their vibe fits with what I understand of their town meta lol but meh

Kyoko - if this is their first time trying the weird scum meter thing (if I didnt misunderstand) then I'd honestly give a couple town points lmao. otherwise very meh

snivy - feels pretty wolf. in general their early posting was the most stiff. treatment of ranger feels like buddying ("wow you're doing readlists every post?! that's so game-advancing and towny" for something I think is fairly clearly predetermined playstyle).

abnegation - my gut says this is what I think newer-player villagers look like

re-dragon - yeah the weird mentality is a replica of my exp with them from previous games were they were town. I'm not sure if it means they're definitely not scum however. But its so similar to that town fluent not nervous awkward persona they had in previous games I saw them in as town.

re-rat and rauth - I agree with your thought process about that discussion for most part and I see what you say. I think rat is + town and rauth is slight + scum in that convo if we just isolate that discussion on the two as well

re-me yeah people were complaining/making reads based on why I scum read or town read this or that (posts in isolation) I genuinely don't. So I thought to try and explain my vibe with posts in isolation and show how weak that vibe is on its own. I only make reads based on a pattern/connection of posts.

In general really good read list with clear thought process. + 0.3 town metter points for having pure initial reads.

ok he is being villagery VOTE: Abnegation

can you elaborate on this fast switch. I missed how you think about the slot before/after knowing its an alt. how did your intial read do a 180?

[usesPython]

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

then would you mind elaborating on this "reason" you have for scum reading me or making up something fast about it in your next post? cause you only have a limited time to convince me this interaction is not fake af and is just because you're scum, and essentially force me to tunnel you.

Quite simply,
Most of your reads and takes are very easy. You're making very easy takes. Perhaps the closest you have to a non-consensus take is DragonEater being town; even this is, per your alleged place in the thread, a consensus read because up until a few pages ago, DragonEater was seen widely as town.

Your focus on me is forced. Your decision I couldn't be a traitor and must therefore be some form of 3p is from a scum mindset, because town players don't focus on 3ps; scum do. You've largely abandoned your catchup, yet appear to still be informed about things which you shouldn't be if you had abandoned it.

If I'm not a traitor, the options are {groupscum, 3p, town}. If groupscum, then the question becomes what kind of groupscum needs to signal. Admittedly, url=viewtopic.php?p=13622223&f=90&t=90209&u ... #p13622223]I've signaled to the other scumteam as scum before[/url]. You allegedly wouldn't have knowledge of this, so you shouldn't have thought groupscum signaling to groupscum.

If 3p, then why the focus on 3ps on D1? 3ps aren't scum.

If town, then why focus on me at all? Town players with something to hide are still, fundamentally, town.

Your decision to focus on me is vastly +scum, because there's no "gotcha scum" which can result from the push. It's forced aggression. You're pursuing something you're aware looks good, yet could never result in anything tangibly beneficial to the town. It's opportunistic, because of the players having mounting doubts about me.

And simply put; if you were town, I wouldn't expect you to focus on something meaningless which is self-evidently fruitless, rather than pursuing players on their reads and stated reasons.

How are my reads easy? I actually think I'm being quite perceptive in this game - digging things that everyone else missed to even mention once including with your slot.

Yes my focus on you is

forced

. by myself. You're odd and not towny. which makes it very rewarding for town!me to figure you out and town!ranger would never argue against that. You were clearly signaling something to drew - which means no day chat, so it suggests a traitor like - or maybe if there is a hope for your slot to be still somewhat less harmful a lawyer like interaction with them. This is further confirmed as you're too careful with how you place them in your read lists and them being forced to be in nightmare and the whole interactions that happened around that relationship with you upon skim.

Then there is your refusal to elaborate anything - but not just that - your refusal to even node along that it was true. And then dropping me in your list as I point it out all It just makes it clear you're not working to sort slots in benefit of town - town!mindset - and even if you're not scum you don't have a town win con

So what is it? do you wanna coolabrate and become more transparent about whats going on with the wierdness surrounding your slot or do you want me to assume that you're an extremely "harmful to town" scum that needed to signal like that and cant collaborate with town? Should I accept this as a 3p claim?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri

Just saying in general you will not receive any reaction/interaction by voting me without posting why/asking questions in future

and if its to scare me - redirect my attention, I will not take back my push on ranger. I'm hitting a nerve here and its almost definitely not a town nerve

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

also need to add this that traitor and lawyer are not only scenarios for a scum!ranger to signal to another slot. "There are many other reasons to do so" in mech interactions that aren none for town.

I only can think of 1 towny reason for doing that in all mech possible and that's not how town!ranger would react for being called out on it if that was the case

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

and I'm fairly confident a town!ranger would not drop me in their read list in that fashion for being called out for the signaling - saying I'm 3p hunting as a reason. so what if I'm "also" 3p hunting in such a massive bastard game? I'm scum hunting in general and a town!ranger would understand that voting them to get a better answer would not necessarily mean I want 3p dead over scum in day and that's such a weird avenue for a town!ranger to go at when town must figure out 3p too same as other scum if "she is one"

= ranger isn't town.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

thats the gotcha scum you said i cant get from this push?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

also one other thing I need to comment on. I posted 0 reads so far in game - beside you being scum. I'm not sure what you mean my takes are easy. I said like 10 thousand times that what I post in isolation about posts are my vibes. I never ever will vomit reads in game like some. the way you make your reads is "easy" you just go with your conscious and move people up or down for whatever you see. I put things together and see them as a whole to form "reads" and I'm not there yet. regarding dragon eater I was first one to mention its a replica of their previous town game and that's a vibe like everything else (meta vibe you can say so). I posted this meter thing to show how week my isolated interpretations are on single posts and you go there and pull that against me like this again?

I would expect a town!ranger to see the lengths I've gone to both elaborate my vibe on isolated posts and how that is different with what caused me to vote her which bot - which is an elaborated matter to get a read on her and both are far from "easy"

which is another reason ranger isn't town and that read she made up on my slot post dropping me is from scum!ranger

[usesPython]

If I'm wrong (about maybe being wrong I guess?) I would very much like to know why

Go read page 34 and then re-ISO her, she's defo town

---

Kirigiri and Rauth are the two people we're willing to wheel and deal to get a lim through, rest are either in our townbin or null

[usesPython]

rest are either in our townbin or null

or scumleans but not strong enough to hard push rn

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I didnt see someone else find that signaling before me

guess that explains why she calls it easy a bit more

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

still why are you town reading ranger?

[Radical Rat]

I'm here and reading. Updates to come, doing some thinking, but I will say Kirigiri feels very Town on a first pass

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

If I'm wrong (about maybe being wrong I guess?) I would very much like to know why

Go read page 34 and then re-ISO her, she's defo town

---

Kirigiri and Rauth are the two people we're willing to wheel and deal to get a lim through, rest are either in our townbin or null

case rauth. you just above said you forgot why you were scumreading rauth, so you have new reasons for it?

[usesPython]

case rauth. you just above said you forgot why you were scumreading rauth, so you have new reasons for it?

I said I forgot why we were scumreading him 5 days ago, not that we haven't been scumreading him for a while. And nah, other people have cased him enough that I'd just be repeating their points at this point; Go read RR's ISO if you want a case.

[Radical Rat]

So, I think I figured out my big logical error. If I'm correct, it explains a lot about Ranger's weirdness, but that's all I'll say on the matter for now.

In terms of Kirigiri, I like her entrance, and I strongly disagree that she's just taking "easy" stances. Semi-recently I spent like half a game trying to push a Traitor, after correctly realizing one existed and who it was, but no one would listen to me about it and it was a major contributing factor to us losing. I don't think that's the angle scum tries to take if they're going for easy, non-controversial pushes.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

case rauth. you just above said you forgot why you were scumreading rauth, so you have new reasons for it?

I said I forgot why we were scumreading him 5 days ago, not that we haven't been scumreading him for a while. And nah, other people have cased him enough that I'd just be repeating their points at this point; Go read RR's ISO if you want a case.

yeah I was just merely interested to know if "your read" developed on a new thing and you forgot initial reasons or if others cased him and you wanna sheep that know without thinking much of your initial sr on them. I'm not done catching up

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Random idea:

We ask every player to name 7 people for their nightmare tonight. We add up the results and the seven most voted people do it.

Positives:
A lot of information for future nights
Generally townread people get put in

Negatives:
Scum working with more information than town?

this is + town thinking

Elaborate on scum getting more information from this?

I actually initially had exact same reaction reading the post first assuming he means "same type of info" he posted about for future nights but got what he meant before reaching here hehe. +0.1 town meter for mind melding in question development - its a very small sign of town perspective slving attidue

.... wow is me playing to my town meta in Conception really going to screw me over twice?

But really there isn't much I can do to defend myself against the original argument for why I'm scum even if I wanted to.
I'm being scum read for having bad takes and not clarifying my assumptions with every mech post I make. All I can do now is try and look at everyone else and get reads... which early on I'm terrible at.

For what it's worth I think there's a chance at least one scum is pushing me, I'm just trying to figure out why. DragonEater I don't think is that though, and I like a lot of what else they're posting. Drew I'm going to agree with Ranger on and keep them as town... Python and Radical Rat I think were decent enough though the latter should probably be resolved one way or another at some point due to their claim. THOUGH. I believe we can actually do that without flipping them... by using Inquiry to ask if Radical Rat would investigate as an alignment they are not. (Doesn't actually confirm alignment on it's own since both scum and town can have roles that can do this.) That leaves... Aureal and Abnegation... Abnegation I'm... not sure about... I don't see much in the way that leans me town or scum from them. Aureal is just... not present mostly? Hmm. Let me look elsewhere as well, but.

HURT: Doctor Drew, DragonEater, UsesPython, RadicalRat, Ranger
I'll expand it to seven later once I get more town reads and probably change the list some, but. There's an initial list of people I think are town.

VOTE: Aureal
If anything just to get you to do a bit more in the game.

why making a proposal of 5 (even if you say you will add names later) when ic was established best by your own words?

Why the hell are we still talking about mech

1 billion votes on Rauth please

But this post wasn't about mech. scum meter 0.1

at this point I'm getting the vibe rauth might be just awkward - town when explaining his mech ideas while not being really good at them, or a scum surfing on mech talks to bring it back for not adding any value.

For D1 at least, is there any reason the nightmare SHOULDN'T include everyone?

Same reason we don’t massclaim D1; scum usually have counterplay making the strategy detrimental.

Town meter 0.1

{usesPython}
{Abnegation}
{Rautherdir}
{Save The Dragons, Doctor Drew}
{Radical Rat}
{Merlyn}
{Aureal}
{Morning Tweet}
{biancospino}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Kyoko Kirigiri}
{Titus}
{sheepsaysmeep}
{DragonEater70}

Loosely P8.

can you talk about your titus read a bit here

[Random Nurse]

HEAL: old vote
HURT: Doctor Drew, usesPython, Ranger, Abnegation, Radical Rat, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal

We can be convinced to drop KKFC and Aureal but the rest I want in right now

What is the heal/hurt thing you're doing?