Micro 1087 | It's normal | It's over!

[medeia]

almost managed to post from the wrong account before posting from the right one good start

[medeia]

[medeia]

oh you can none of them are really secret

also hi!

[medeia]

i think(?) i am familiar with everyone except maybe kcdaspot and random nurse, though it's very possible i could be familiar with them as well through alts

maybe(?) ceejayvinoya doesn't remember me as that game was long ago (mystery box h8)

or i suppose chicagotypewriter might not make the connection between me here and inutile in the native plants newbie

but anyway yeah it me

[medeia]

how'd you choose meuh? since noone else seems to be around

[medeia]

reason for shade: Why question RVS like that?

thought it might be the tiniest bit noteworthy that skitter voted someone who happened to be around, shrug

[medeia]

reason for shade: Why question RVS like that?

thought it might be the tiniest bit noteworthy that skitter voted someone who happened to be around, shrug

like skitter voted for meuh who then very shortly thereafter voted for chicagotypewriter who a little while later voted for t3 and then… nothing

which sure likely a coincidence but like i said noone around so nothing else to ask about

chicagotypewriter acknowledged the ‘chain’ or whatever so less likely involved if it was a thing I guess but was mostly just bored yeah

[medeia]

except the skits was the first to post.

so? like if scums she’d likely know meuh was around from scum pt

and! it’s not like i could ask meuh why meuh thought skitter voted for her because a) she wasn’t around and b) likely answer is ‘idk rvs probably’ regardless of either of their alignments

[medeia]

yeah mostly thought it was maybe a tiny bit noteworthy / was curious what skitter’s answer would be / nothing else to do

why’s it shady to you though? like why do you think scum!me would be more likely to ask about that?

[medeia]

ebwop: @med

Also How can you tell if and when someones around anyway?

by ‘around’ i mostly mean ‘are currently posting’ i don’t really have a good way to judge beyond that

[medeia]

med might just be my first vote but imma wait until like page 4 or 5 and theres content to go off of.

sigh i guess i don’t really understand why you think that’s scummy or shady or whatever and would rather you engaged me about it and sorted me sooner rather than later

if your point is just that

unlikely to be relevant therefore i probably shouldn’t have asked about it sure i guess but then it’s just me waiting for someone else to arrive and eh

[medeia]

why’s it shady to you though? like why do you think scum!me would be more likely to ask about that?

its scummy to ask in that way... i think it indicates a want to control the discussion. i can only think of PRs and scums who would do that and the split would be 15%/85% scum

i don’t really see how me asking about a skitter’s rvs post indicates this but okay

[medeia]

That's funny b/c i was abt to say i think they're townie

Actually, thinking back now, one thing of his that stuck out to me as townie was how he said that controlling discussion would be an 85% scum and 15% town PR. I don't think that scum would feel the need to specify town PR vs. scum because that would leave some room for doubt.

UNVOTE:

hm,

why would,

a town!pr specifically want to control the discussion though?

[medeia]

a town!pr specifically want to control the discussion though?

controlling discussion allows you to pick your targets at leisure. when i say town pr i mean "WHO AM I DAYVIGGING?"etc.

(i was more asking t3 to see how was reading your post there)

anyway, still don’t see how you’ve decided that my asking skitter about the meuh vote there indicates a ‘desire to control the discussion’ (not that i necessarily agree that a vanilla town would have no reason to do so either but that’s irrelevant as i, uh, wasn’t doing that yeah or at least not intentionally)

[medeia]

I like Kcda nudging at Med because their opening felt off to me
I can't really pin-point why (I don't really find Kcda's reasoning for it particularly compelling, though I do think he looks townie for it) but I read those posts and was just like "damn Med's probably just scum"

hm, can't really tell if you're just trying to gauge my reaction to this based on past experience (or give the impression of such)

but in case not - i am not a scums and can walk you through those posts if you'd like

like the youtube video was mostly to say 'where is everyone' since activity was light even though the game had quickly been confirmed or maybe more specifically 'where is everyone and especially pooky' as pooky's most likely to appreciate it and because i like it and wanted to share, went to post it and realized i was on another account at preview due to signature and switched

then me just telling skitter she's free to out my alts (as is everyone) as they are intentionally recognizable and i usually do so myself, then i looked at the playerlist to gauge familiarity, dunno why really, was thinking about it / it interests me, shrug

then asked about meuh vote which i've been over

and from there it's like

i dunno

really don't understand kcdaspot's push on me - like the extent of my thought process was 'ehhh mayyybe this is possibly noteworthy lemme ask skitter about it' and i don't really see how kcdaspot would view that as me trying to control the discussion in a mafia indicative way - like in all likelihood without kcdaspot's presence skitter gives an answer and then... there probably isn't any further discussion regarding? and i guess i don't really understand the delaying the vote thing either - could in theory be him trying to see if anyone else agrees first like see if there's traction there but i dunno how alignment indicative that is in practice

then t3 voting kcdaspot and then immediately unvoting when skitter voiced the opposite opinion which is pretty ???

and otherwise guess i really wish players would post more than rvs posts when things are otherwise happening (random nurse and ceejayvinoya) but eh maybe just a sign of my impatience

and now you're saying 'medeia likely scum can't put my finger on why tho' in a way that mostly makes me feel like you're trying to gauge my reaction which is kinda ... like you'd probably have to assume scum!me knows the steps just the same but maybe i am misjudging

pedit: hi pooky

[medeia]

on second thought maybe i shouldve waited for skitter to be around to start calling her mafia so i could get some real time reaction data instead of giving her so much advance warning :3

hm,

do you think we are likely partnered right now or individually scummy or..?

[medeia]

hi medeia ! long time no see

hi! missed you, et cetera etc

[medeia]

on second thought maybe i shouldve waited for skitter to be around to start calling her mafia so i could get some real time reaction data instead of giving her so much advance warning :3

hm,

do you think we are likely partnered right now or individually scummy or..?

her conversation with you about the alt felt weird to me like it wasnt naturally occuring and like something planned out?

why... would we plan that out? like surely we could come up with a better way of interacting

[medeia]

idk at first i kinda thought she was saying she knew which specific alt account it might have been which i can't say anything about for obvious reasons

but otherwise idk her posts haven't really raised any alarm bells for me

[medeia]

distancing? like a "oh these two cant be partnered if they are meeting for the first time in the thread" kind of deal

i just

i dunno

find it kinda hard to believe that you believe this?

like skitter and i are obviously familiar with eachother and i don't think you would think we'd go into a game as scum together and play up our 'discovering' that familiarity

but it's not like you're the only one saying my early interactions were awkward, so!

[medeia]

youve seen me believe all sorts of crazy stuff why not this

mostly because you've seen skitter distance her partners early game quite a bit (as have i) and i don't really think it possibly looks like this

[medeia]

hm

[medeia]

the way i think about distancing is kind of like a general pool of strategies that ive seen used, i dont have the brain capacity to remember how each specific player likes to distance >.>

okay

well the extent of what i can tell you about this for sure is that we weren't distancing because i'm towm

like if we wanted to distance i think she could have easily joined kcdaspot push or whatever when she returned there

(to which you might say

ah but medeia! what if she was afraid that might make you an immediately viable elimination here or something

and then i just point back to the first sentence here and shrug)

[medeia]

towm

>.>

adapted from ydrasse of course

[medeia]

its ok i will figure out if skitter is mafia - i havent misread her since Slaughter hour

let's say you figure that out that she is not one way or another

does that actually have any great bearing on my alignment to you?

same thing for if you figure out that she is i guess

but less interesting because then you could just cite the aforementioned interaction and yeah

[medeia]

5. Media - Slight SR. The posts occasionally come off as a bit too aloof and carefree, although that doesn't count for much. The "I just, I dunno" to me comes off a bit forced. That's just me though.

these are just personality/typographical traits common to me

like here are my isos from my two most recent completed games (both as town):

native plants newbie
angels and demons

so you can see that that's just who i am/how i type and such

the 'i just i dunno' comes from my attempts at capturing how i would say things in text form and hitting enter instead of backspace when i pause midthought which is something i am constantly refining both within and without mafia but! veering into unrelated to game territory here

also maybe slightly interesting to me that you seem to have similar thoughts to me re: kcdaspot's comment about my shadiness and! kcdaspot's stating that he is waiting to vote while townreading kcdaspot and voting me but eh stated weights etc

alsoalso, if you're going to drop a letter the i is the one to drop as 'medea' is the most common english transliteration, it's just that medea was already taken and it would not let me choose médée (after the opera) due to unallowed characters even though i already have an andrée account

[medeia]

Medeia, wanna make a

Town Contract

with me?

It's simple, and I made it up.

Every time I ask you a direct question you answer me upfront without evasion/deflection, and the same for me when you ask me direct questions. It's not fool-proof but it'd go a LONG way in fostering trust. If rejected or broken that'd make the one rejecting/breaking it look Scummy.

I extend this invitation to you.

i mean, sure

i'm not really sure why this isn't just something you'd assume about me or most players by default i guess

though i am not really the best at being clear and that is sometimes seen as evasion/deflection like if i am having difficulty weighing something and you just keep asking me 'but does that mean x is scums or not?' or whatever then i could foresee this being difficult i guess

but on a baseline sure anything that fosters communication generally good

[medeia]

Medeia, wanna make a

Town Contract

with me?

It's simple, and I made it up.

Every time I ask you a direct question you answer me upfront without evasion/deflection, and the same for me when you ask me direct questions. It's not fool-proof but it'd go a LONG way in fostering trust. If rejected or broken that'd make the one rejecting/breaking it look Scummy.

I extend this invitation to you.

i mean, sure

i'm not really sure why this isn't just something you'd assume about me or most players by default i guess

(1)

though i am not really the best at being clear and that is sometimes seen as evasion/deflection like if i am having difficulty weighing something and you just keep asking me 'but does that mean x is scums or not?' or whatever then i could foresee this being difficult i guess

(2)

but on a baseline sure anything that fosters communication generally good

(3)

(1) It's because there's Scum masquerading as Town in this game.

(2) Hey man, that'd be excellent practice at getting direct and to the point.

(3) Wonderful.

I'll wait until about page 10 before asking you those questions, for the sake of getting more context first, unless you'd prefer we start now?

1) i don't really think scums generally try to evade all questions but okay

2) not a man, and the issue is more that, when certain things are difficult to weigh, it is like

like being more direct and to the point feels reductive and inaccurate to me and not actually representative of how i am feeling, and that in those sort of situations, i think it would be much more helpful to me if you were patient with me and maybe tried to weigh what i am weighing alongside me rather than push for me to come to a hard conclusion immediately

3) eh you can ask me questions at any time, like even without the contract i would probably try to answer them so it's not like there needs to be some set start time or whatever from my perspective

[medeia]

and i guess i kinda just assumed you would generally answer my questions if i asked? like even if you are a scums it still seems unlikely to me you'd just ignore me or something

so yeah

[medeia]

like sorting to me generally feels like

'does this make sense as a thought process' or 'does this approach to this situation seem likely to come from town/scum'

and very seldomly like

'well x seems to be evasive and being evasive is scummy!'

but the contract maybe enabling the finding of the former seems beneficial to me both in terms of my sorting you and in terms of you seeing i am town if you are town

[medeia]

Medeia’s posts are overexplain-y and it seems like she’s trying to squeeze content out of nothing just for the sake of doing so. In addition, the post about Kcda felt uncharacteristically defensive, especially this early on.

these are also personality traits for what it's worth

(and i kinda think everyone would be more sortable if they were more overexplainy)

[medeia]

yeaaaaahhhh...... medeia iso isn't good.

Whole thing reads like they squeezin blood from a stone. im with T3 here. lemme check VC real quick

why is this scummy tho?

like sure i am operating from limited information given it's page 4 but why does that make it more likely to you that i would be doing so as a scums?

[medeia]

... does RN have a read here on med?

5. Media - Slight SR. The posts occasionally come off as a bit too aloof and carefree, although that doesn't count for much. The "I just, I dunno" to me comes off a bit forced. That's just me though.

[medeia]

yeaaaaahhhh...... medeia iso isn't good.

Whole thing reads like they squeezin blood from a stone. im with T3 here. lemme check VC real quick

why is this scummy tho?

like sure i am operating from limited information given it's page 4 but why does that make it more likely to you that i would be doing so as a scums?

also like, if you're town here could you please at least glance at the links i provided to random nurse earlier and maybe realize that what you're scumreading is simply how i play the game?

which sure maybe you object to it and want me to just not post or whatever instead of 'squeezin blood from a stone' i guess but i don't really want to do that and! i really don't see how that would make me more sortable to you?

[medeia]

well i dont like meta as a way to clear or condemn anyway. each game is its own thing. no one actually acts the same way, even with the same role over multiple games, twice.

3 posts thoo? over that? seriously? in the course of 5 minutes?

thats panic in my eye.

Gents Gals and whatever else, i may have something here.

it isn't meta as a way to clear or condemn someone, it is meta to show you that what you are trying to condemn me for has absolutely nothing to do with alignment

and now you say i'm defensive just like everyone else who has ever pushed me

and then i say that that's also a personality trait and has nothing to do with alignment

and yes given absolutely scum!me is aware that that is how town!me reacts

but... that is also how town!me reacts!

so!

[medeia]

and i really don't see how me making 3 posts over this is panic to you please please just read the first few pages of the angels and demons game

i could easily make 25 posts over this if i really wanted to

and i would still be town here

[medeia]

please please just read the first few pages of the angels and demons game

viewtopic.php?t=90999

[medeia]

please please just read the first few pages of the angels and demons game

viewtopic.php?t=90999

i am demona there in case it isn't readily apparent

[medeia]

kinda wish people pushing me like this was more of an alignment delineating thing but alas

[medeia]

like sure i am operating from limited information given it's page 4 but why does that make it more likely to you that i would be doing so as a scums?

also could you answer this please

like why you assumed that i would be more likely to squeeze blood from a stone or whatever as a scums here

because to me it kinda feels like

you just want to keep pushing me indefinitely

like you push me for asking skitter about the meuh vote then extend that to my whole iso after t3 post and now you're pushing me for 'panicing'

and it's just like, like things you can point to and not things i actually see why you might think they are scummy

[medeia]

gonna go train around later ~5 hours

[medeia]

distancing? like a "oh these two cant be partnered if they are meeting for the first time in the thread" kind of deal

i just

i dunno

find it kinda hard to believe that you believe this?

like skitter and i are obviously familiar with eachother and i don't think you would think we'd go into a game as scum together and play up our 'discovering' that familiarity

but it's not like you're the only one saying my early interactions were awkward, so!

this feels like something he's just saying to see how me/you will react to it, not something he actually believes

yeah

[medeia]

lol wut

VOTE: t3

ooooh good vote, i approve

Is this out of character behavior from T3?

still think the vote/unvote was pretty ???

but the posting like a robot thing? idk not really i guess

like t3 complained about my playstyle but... i really think t3 would be more readable if he came to the thread and just engaged with whoever was around at the time or! if noone was around just rambled about game related w/e for a while

which i mean, i could also say the same thing about you right now

can't really say i am altogether unworried about your veiled presence here similar to native plants and less similar to the town!you newbie i read

[medeia]

VOTE: Medeia

nah.

yeaaaaahhhh...... medeia iso isn't good.

Whole thing reads like they squeezin blood from a stone. im with T3 here. lemme check VC real quick

well i dont like meta as a way to clear or condemn anyway. each game is its own thing. no one actually acts the same way, even with the same role over multiple games, twice.

3 posts thoo? over that? seriously? in the course of 5 minutes?

thats panic in my eye.

Gents Gals and whatever else, i may have something here.

this is kinda her vibe; i don't 'think she's panicking
can you elaborate a bit more on the 'squeezing blood from a stone' and what you think she's panicking abt please?

In short she's fluffy

why is this scummy tho?

because to me it kinda feels like

you just want to keep pushing me indefinitely

also are you just going to ignore my questions?

because if all of your content is going to be about me and you're going to refuse to engage with me about it it's like !?!

[medeia]

and it's not like my posts are completely devoid of content or anything

and if there's anything specific you think i should have an opinion on or whatever you can always just ask ya know

[medeia]

This is going to sound crazy but I overestimated the time I have to play Mafia. If I play just one game at a time this idea may work better, but currently I don't think so. I do like that you were open to the idea though.

i have made the error of overestimating the time i have to play mafia basically every time i have signed up for a game during the last few terms

and!

i generally try to play in only one game at a time

so i get it

[medeia]

the readslists made more sense to me when everyone was null tho

[medeia]

the readslists made more sense to me when everyone was null tho

The game's still super-young though. We're only on page 6.

but like, ceejayvinoya isn't asking questions? unless i am misunderstanding your post somehow

[medeia]

As I understand it Scum team members will typically *fight* with each other early on, so I'm always looking for that tell.

I'm a veteran Mafia player but haven't played in about two years, so am rusty.

depends on the game/scum team et cetera but often enough they do yeah like what pooky was saying about skitter and potentially distancing doesn't completely not checkout in the sense that skitter wouldn't distance her partner in a game like this or anything i just think pooky is familiar enough with both of us that it seemed odd to me that pooky would think that our discussion of alts might be us doing so

[medeia]

Where are you on that, Medeia?

idk 'lol wut' felt kinda towny to me

and i think players interacting with pooky is probably more likely to yield alignment indicative posts than simply vote pressure

but eh not wholly opposed either

[medeia]

So just to clarify you're not open currently to pressuring Pooky right now with a vote?

oh i generally vote when i wish for the person i am voting for to be eliminated or at the very least to claim just seen/caused too too many disasters

[medeia]

i generally vote

*i generally only vote

[medeia]

So just to clarify you're not open currently to pressuring Pooky right now with a vote?

oh i generally vote when i wish for the person i am voting for to be eliminated or at the very least to claim just seen/caused too too many disasters

So is that like a yes or a no?

that is a no

i do not wish for pooky to claim or be eliminated right now so i will not be voting for pooky at this time

[medeia]

But it's just pressuring, right?

Who said anything about claiming or being eliminated right now?

noone said anything about that, well other than me i guess, i just don't see what my vote accomplishes and i do not like to vote outside of those situations

like it just muddies things from my perspective and i think there are better ways to go about gaining information than simply voting and! like i said far too many disasters yeah

[medeia]

I'm not liking your last couple responses here right now Medeia.

I'm not asking you to buy the Chicken Shack I'm asking you to sample a chicken tendie.

i... don't get it

like really what do you see my pressure vote accomplishing here if i were to place it

[medeia]

But it's just pressuring, right?

Who said anything about claiming or being eliminated right now?

noone said anything about that, well other than me i guess, i just don't see what my vote accomplishes and i do not like to vote outside of those situations

like it just muddies things from my perspective and i think there are better ways to go about gaining information than simply voting and! like i said far too many disasters yeah

Now hold on. I'm asking you to pressure Pooky by casting a vote at him. I never said anything about a claim or an alimination—YOU did. You don't see that votes to pressure other players don't accomplish anything? Clarify that for me please right now. You pressure other players with votes in order to see how they respond. Just because you cast a vote doesn't mean you MUST commit to their claim and elimination that Day.

Your hesitancy on this is making NO sense to me.

i know that i did, i stated that i did in the post that you just quoted

i think interacting with players is more likely to lead to readable content than pressure voting

you may pressure other players with votes in order to see how they respond

but i do not,

as i generally think their responses are more readable in other situations and! i have found that wagons are often pushed through simply because they exist

and! i know that scum!pooky doesn't have a problem with reacting in a specific way to 'pressure' as scum regardless

[medeia]

I'm not liking your last couple responses here right now Medeia.

I'm not asking you to buy the Chicken Shack I'm asking you to sample a chicken tendie.

i... don't get it

like really what do you see my pressure vote accomplishing here if i were to place it

Because two votes in more pressure than ONE vote, and when you pressure players they tend to react, especially with more pressure.

How long have you been playing Mafia?

absolutely none of this makes any sense to me

been playing mafia a little over 3 years, generally haven't been voting outside of the aforementioned situations for the last two and a half years or so? since the binding of isaac disaster

[medeia]

Both interacting AND pressure voting leads to readable content. It's not an either/or thing.

If you want there to be readable content then you should not have any sort of hesistance on casting a pressure vote.

and only one of those things potentially leads to disaster, shrug, like i simply do not get why you think this is mafia indicative of me in anyway

[medeia]

I'm not liking your last couple responses here right now Medeia.

I'm not asking you to buy the Chicken Shack I'm asking you to sample a chicken tendie.

i... don't get it

like really what do you see my pressure vote accomplishing here if i were to place it

Because two votes in more pressure than ONE vote, and when you pressure players they tend to react, especially with more pressure.

How long have you been playing Mafia?

absolutely none of this makes any sense to me

been playing mafia a little over 3 years, generally haven't been voting outside of the aforementioned situations for the last two and a half years or so? since the binding of isaac disaster

WHAT is not making sense to you?

The more votes on a person the more pressure they feel. Two votes cause more pressure than ONE vote.

none of it

like why you think my voting here would lead pooky to revealing himself one way or another in a way that simply interacting with pooky about our concerns would not

why you think my not doing so is likely to come from mafia

what outcome you are expecting from this interaction at this point

etc

[medeia]

Technically both can lead to disaster, in that if the interacting goes sideways a player could replace-out, so your point is moot.

Pressure voting RARELY leads to disaster on Day 1, especially when it's just TWO.

You're making it look like you're refusing to pressure vote Pooky and I want to know WHY.

i mean, i generally take great care to keep everything within the game as much as possible when interacting with others and have interacted with pooky at great length in the past, i really don't see how you would possibly think that should be an equivalent concern to me here in this situation

like i said, wagons get pushed through simply because they exist all of the time and i do not see the great benefit that you are claiming here

what do you mean by 'making it look like'? like you asked me if i was going to pressure vote pooky here and i said no and explained why

you don't seem to like that explanation, but it is what it is

[medeia]

VOTE: T3 wanna nudge over here

i think that is e-1 by the way

[medeia]

which really i would rather we didn't here

[medeia]

Medeia can get incorrectly scumread based on NAI playstyle stuff a lot (a lot of the case against them is just that) like in Angels and Demons which was mentioned
Still feeling dread about their vibes though

pedit: UNVOTE:

kinda worried that you may be doing like a mirrorworld approach to my slot from that game

[medeia]

Medeia can get incorrectly scumread based on NAI playstyle stuff a lot (a lot of the case against them is just that) like in Angels and Demons which was mentioned
Still feeling dread about their vibes though

pedit: UNVOTE:

Well, her play sucks.

Actively refusing to, I don't know, SCUMHUNT.

but i am scumhunting

can maybe see why you thought causing players to replace out should be a concern for others from this post though

[medeia]

[medeia]

i think she just talks a lot like that tho - why is this scummy for her?

I'm using my standbys to scum. and her posts dont have much function beyond talking about her emotions whereas they could be adding to the game.

@med: iso some people and give me reads. dont just tell me you're town, show me.

? so far you have found me, a town, and very little else? like i literally don't know what you think about any other slot right now?

i don't really need to iso players specifically to do this as i have been reading the game and have given thoughts throughout especially since the game is 9 pages and i can easily just reread it in its entirety to see things in context

kinda feel like almost all of my posts show that i am town and if you're town here you've just been ignoring that and if not, well

like your implication in this post is that i haven't talked about most of the slots or given thoughts/reads and such which is like ???

especially since you claim to have read through my iso specifically?

anyway,

i don't really think scum!skitter would be all that likely to vocally townread me here like i would expect her stance towards me to be more similar to meuh's if she were scum like 'idk the playstyle things are nai but something is maybe a little off with her' or whatever so she would be open to voting me later in the day if there was enough pressure from the wagon - like i don't really think there is great benefit to scum!skitter trying to pocket me by doing so - could be banking on the fact that i often fall under early pressure and am then subsequently townread and wanting to get ahead of that but like, i think my presence in the game is generally pretty annoying for the scums even if my reads are not the best and getting rid of me through a means other than nightkill probably +++ for scums

i think t3's vote/unvote of you was weird and the read of me was kinda lazy and nai

my main concerns about your slot are still this:

if all of your content is going to be about me and you're going to refuse to engage with me about it it's like !?!

and the fact that your push on me is ever-evolving but you still never actually address why you are weighing things the way you are even though it's like your sole focus - which like, sure maybe some element of omgus potentially but you have one read and i know it is wrong, so

random nurse's recent readslists don't really make much sense to me and he immediately started pushing for me to vote pooky and then hardpushing me in a ??? way for not doing so when i pointed that out which is kinda hmm but i did like the reaching out with the contract thing

kinda reminds me of how humaneatingmonkey plays maybe with the thinking there is great benefit in applying pressure but i don't really think that is alignment indicative

pooky's thoughts on the me/skitter thing were kinda eh but could have been reaction testing and i thought the 'lol wut' when voting t3 was kinda towny and recent posts okay

meuh's approach to me feels like she could be potentially angling to be able to vote for me later like i said when talking about skitter and it also feels like, like she may be taking a similar but opposite approach to me from the angels and demons game where she was scum - there she stated she would just assume i was town through day one at the very least but she felt like my general approach to the game was something i could replicate as a scums, and here she stated that she thinks i am scum because of 'vibes' (which eh) while also saying that she thinks my general approach is the same as always here but! that general approach is something she thinks i can replicate

which mm, i find the focus on this kinda odd in general because even if she does think i can replicate my general approach and such it's not like that would make me unsortable or anything and i don't think she has really attempted to do so

but maybe i am being overly unfair to meuh because of recent experience with having been fooled by scum!her

a little worried about chicagotypewriter's lack of presence here which feels more like the newbie we played together where chicagotypewriter was a scums and less like the newbie i read where chicagotypewriter was town but eh very limited sample/could simply be busy/it's very early in the game

ceejayvinoya's one non-rvs post feels good to me and i agree with it but it's one post yeah

feel like i had already said most of this elsewhere but there it is compiled for you

[medeia]

also like,

i don't have any idea how i would even go about trying to remove my emotions from my posts altogether

i am easily excitable and mafia is exciting for me and that's a large part of why i play

[medeia]

There's no real excuse to refuse pressure voting anyone, especially Day 1.

Pressure voting, like interacting, is how you get valuable content.

this isn't her way of playing tho; she doesn't feel she gets valuable content voting people this way
i'm still a little confused why you find this scummy

it is like,

take me for an example

all pressure voting me here does is distract me from actually solving the game and causes me to focus on that instead and allows people to say things like 'she is overly defensive!!! look she cares about self-preservation!!!' which well obviously i do and obviously i am defensive you are pushing me offensively how am i supposed to react and it makes it more likely i am potentially eliminated and it's not like the players doing so in this case are even particularly familiar with me in order to even try to sort between a town reaction and a scum reaction anyway

[medeia]

There's no real excuse to refuse pressure voting anyone, especially Day 1.

Pressure voting, like interacting, is how you get valuable content.

this isn't her way of playing tho; she doesn't feel she gets valuable content voting people this way
i'm still a little confused why you find this scummy

it is like,

take me for an example

all pressure voting me here does is distract me from actually solving the game and causes me to focus on that instead and allows people to say things like 'she is overly defensive!!! look she cares about self-preservation!!!' which well obviously i do and obviously i am defensive you are pushing me offensively how am i supposed to react and it makes it more likely i am potentially eliminated and it's not like the players doing so in this case are even particularly familiar with me in order to even try to sort between a town reaction and a scum reaction anyway

like if random nurse actually wants to scumhunt here maybe he could try to engage t3 or meuh or chicagotypewriter or ceejayvinoya about something that might spark their interest in the game?

or try to interact with kcdaspot about anything other than me?

or if he really wanted to sort pooky specifically here try to get him to turn into the version of himself that feels like 'I Am Going To Solve The Game Now It Is My Time Believe In Me' which to be fair i have no idea how to even go about trying to do so at this point in the game but later on that pooky, that is something that pooky actually has difficulty in replicating as a scums and is rather indicative of town!pooky unlike reactions to pressure votes

[medeia]

Anyone that quickhammers T3 will get reamed by me Day 2.

is this tmi that t3 is town

eh this is basically the same thing:

If T3 got hammered I'd have learned to never 2am post ever again

[medeia]

and maybe accidental or 'accidental' e-1 vote there relevant but eh dunno

[medeia]

Random Nurses' push on medeia seems like it comes from town. I liked the way he was assertive about medeia being anti-town and it kind of reminded me of how town often treat lurkers. It seems like Random Nurse genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town play.

how are you differentiating between

town!random nurse who genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town should play

and

scum!random nurse who genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town should play

?

[medeia]

As I understand it Scum team members will typically *fight* with each other early on, so I'm always looking for that tell.

I'm a veteran Mafia player but haven't played in about two years, so am rusty.

Saving this for later. Kinda curious on how accurate this is...

i think the only players this could really apply to in this game are me/kcdaspot and me/random nurse and i'm not a scums so

[medeia]

yeah med is newbie!town.

not new just town

(i have played 50ish games on various accounts in my 3+ years here)

[medeia]

KCDA'S BIG ASS SERIOUS RE-READ

^TM

looking forward to it

also i guess i do not really feel like discussing my areas of study but my excitement for the things i am writing about and my ability to convey that excitement to the reader is generally seen as a positive, shrug

[medeia]

hmhmhm

[medeia]

have you cracked the case Detective Medeia

idk don’t really know what to make of kcdaspot saying i’m newbtown once it was apparent the wagon on me was non-viable then asking for days to give thoughts on any other slot

dunno how likely scums would be to tell me to take a writing class like that either tho

[medeia]

hmhmhm

This is my favourite genre of posts

didn’t have much to add but was going to be aroundish for a while if anyone wanted anything

[medeia]

Anyway, moving on with the scumlist because I really have to justify my existence in this game:

medeia: A lot of dialogue, not exceptionally analysis heavy (though to be fair, the quantity is such that even 10% analysis still outweighs most players.) Most early game is in response to being scumread. Continuing, not a lot of heavy reads or action from what I can tell. Fights with Random Nurse over pressure voting Pooky. Defends T3 from E-1. Claims to be scumhunting in 183, but I don't see it. 216 is reacting to reads on her. Overall, I have read over 70 posts from her, and I don't actually know who medeia is scumreading.
Null, pending. Townread the game, but I kind of really want a tl;dr post of scumreads.

Kcdaspot: I'm getting ... vague scumread from him? The whole discussion which emanates from 15 isn't good, it's reading too into a throwaway RVS question. 27 is just fundamentally wrong, it seems to indicate that the controlling player is scum 85% of the time.
Also the most extra player.

Random Nurse: I have no idea what a 'Town Contract' is, but making one up and directing it at a player, threatening to scumread if rejected is kinda scummy to me. Scumreads Pooky, no justification (though it might just be 'pressure', but Pooky's the most scum player according to him). Goes after medeia for not voting to pressure Pooky. Definite scumread.

PookyTheMagicalBear: In theory, I echo the sentiment of 88. In practice, I think Pooky is doing a good amount to scumhunt and drive out responses. I also like his votes.

ceejayvinoya: Lurker. Tied with meuh, actually as of the time I'm writing this. Hasn't done much but comment. Nullread.

Now? For starters, UNVOTE: T3, that vote isn't doing anything useful there. I still maintain my scumread, I just want to move it.
Next, VOTE: Random Nurse. He claims that pressuring to create reactions is a core tenet of the game, so I shall follow his logic and turn it on him. I would also like to hear his explanation as to how he hasn't been tunneling medeia.

mobile so nightmare quoting here sorry

somewhat recently compiled most of my thoughts for kcdaspot in 216

if there’s something specific or more recent you want from me just ask

kinda weird to me that you’re like ‘don’t know who she might be scumreading here’

like how’re you interpreting my thoughts on various slots then

i don’t really think of things like ‘these are the scums and these are the towns’ but rather in possibilities but yeah still don’t know how you would have reached the conclusion ‘nope don’t know what she thinks’

[medeia]

I am v firmly null on him

Although @ pooky i dislike your random nurse thing fwiw

its ok i promise to sheep medeia ^^

mm not sure why you’d think my reads would be more likely to be accurate here especially with how the not mafia day one elimination disaster went

[medeia]

Although @ pooky i dislike your random nurse thing fwiw

You have that strong of a tr on Random Nurse?

Kinda
+ i think pooky should be seeing what i'm seeing

i am not really seeing it either for what it’s worth +/

like the aggression just feels like playstyle to me and the push on me and the timing of it were kinda !?! to me and for all of the talk of the pressure voting and such it’s not really like he’s used that to sort me or tried to sort pooky in other ways as far as i can tell

but like, you probably have better perspective on and i am trying to get more distance from

[medeia]

Idk could be wrong
Not voting there rn

idk i know i have had interactions like that before with towns as well as scums so it’s tough

like i said before mostly reminds me of humaneatingmonkey just pushing me to push me under the guise of ‘this is how the game is played’

[medeia]

kinda wish people pushing me like this was more of an alignment delineating thing but alas

Exactlyyy

medeia being pushed for what I think is how they play sucks to read

I don’t know medeia, so how would I know how she plays?

we have played together before in gamma emerald mini normal i had to replace out of as inutile and ydrasse music themed mini normal as shiki and pooky’s dead silence game as thana

[medeia]

will look at rest of chicagotypewriter posts more closely later

[medeia]

Fair 'nuff.

Also, can we acknowledge that T3 has been lurking despite being scumread and has given basically no response to that at all? Just wanted to put that out there. (And, yes, I've been lurking too, but I'm trying to do something about that now.)

i think we have acknowledged that and i would still like t3 to answer my question re: how t3 is differentiating between town/scum random nurse either of which would assumedly have the same view of how town should play the game

[medeia]

I am v firmly null on him

Although @ pooky i dislike your random nurse thing fwiw

its ok i promise to sheep medeia ^^

mm not sure why you’d think my reads would be more likely to be accurate here especially with how the not mafia day one elimination disaster went

we still won that game so it all worked out(if we lost then like dont tell me cuz in my memory we won)

we won - day two on went very well but yeah day one was basically like this with you saying you would sheep me and then me leading an absolute disaster wagon off a cliff so it’s just kinda ?? to me that you’d be so eager to defer to my reads over your own here but i guess i can’t really say it feels out of character for you either

[medeia]

just like, mmm, i’ll let you know if i am feeling confident later

[medeia]

Y this be dead

kinda a holding pattern waiting on various things

but i can do the thing still need to look at chicagotypewriter posts anyway

[medeia]

There's like multiple telling you that tho

I expressed my scumread of medeia before anyone talked about meta or anything. When I read through the demona game I noticed some differences, in this game I noticed that medeia often used language like “I guess” moreso than in the demona game.

can you answer this:

Random Nurses' push on medeia seems like it comes from town. I liked the way he was assertive about medeia being anti-town and it kind of reminded me of how town often treat lurkers. It seems like Random Nurse genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town play.

how are you differentiating between

town!random nurse who genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town should play

and

scum!random nurse who genuinely believes that voting people to put the pressure on is a core tenet of how town should play

?

please

and also maybe walk us through how you're currently viewing the game and such (outside of me i guess)

[medeia]

okay let's see

Anyway, moving on with the scumlist because I really have to justify my existence in this game:

it is kinda interesting to me how much you are focusing on readslists here - like asking skitter and me for one and prioritising posting one yourself - when it is like, easy to have 'believable' reads as scum and like a crafted readslist is always going to read as somewhat nai due to being formulated and such

and like, you seem to know this? because you say you like meuh's reads (even though she is townreading multiple players you are scumreading) but you are scumreading her nonetheless?

[medeia]

Kcdaspot: I'm getting ... vague scumread from him? The whole discussion which emanates from 15 isn't good, it's reading too into a throwaway RVS question. 27 is just fundamentally wrong, it seems to indicate that the controlling player is scum 85% of the time.
Also the most extra player.

Random Nurse: I have no idea what a 'Town Contract' is, but making one up and directing it at a player, threatening to scumread if rejected is kinda scummy to me. Scumreads Pooky, no justification (though it might just be 'pressure', but Pooky's the most scum player according to him). Goes after medeia for not voting to pressure Pooky. Definite scumread.

hmm, it is also interesting to me that you are scumreading both players who pressured me extensively mostly for their interactions with me while nullreading me and also criticizing my reads for being reactive to reads on me? when your reads on those slots are a) similar to mine and b) based on those same interactions

actually thought the town contract was kinda the towniest thing random nurse has posted because it is kinda uncommon for scum to reach out like that in my experience

i guess in theory random nurse could have been hoping i would decline so he could push me for that but eh, it just seems like such a basic expectation to me to 'answer questions from other players/explain thought processes when asked and such' and i think town are generally more likely to want to engage in that sort of thing than scums and it seems unlikely to me that random nurse would think it would be likely that i'd decline

if anything more likely to be an attempt to pocket me/be townread by others by fostering open interaction and such

but eh doesn't really quell my concerns with later posting and i feel like i am doing the big magnifying glass things here

[medeia]

Was that ur main takeaway from this post?

Kind of, actually. I don't like it when players vote scum without having a justifiable reasons, either posted previously or with the vote.

idk what you're failing to read but a lot of Skitter's posts makes sense to me

this feels like you just scanned her iso and looked for something to complain about.

Yeah, I think I object to half her readlist at this point.

skitter's readslist is like, notably similar to meuh's readslist which you liked though? minus the read on me

[medeia]

There's like multiple telling you that tho

I expressed my scumread of medeia before anyone talked about meta or anything. When I read through the demona game I noticed some differences, in this game I noticed that medeia often used language like “I guess” moreso than in the demona game.

wait is this even true? ctrl+f 'guess' found 63 results in inutile game iso and 59 results in demona game iso and 20 results here so far

[medeia]

sigh idk can't tell if i am asking too much of you or what

i get that interacting with me is probably annoying regardless of your alignment

but yeah

if you're town here can you please just post about whatever interests you about the game or something

[medeia]

meh feel like i have done the opposite of doing the thing here

[medeia]

sorry

[medeia]

idk maybe(?) scum!t3 would be more likely to just address my question at some point but i really do not want to townread that

and! i am not even sure it's true it could be an appeal to this sort of logic and like malakittens didn't try to appease anyone in native plants

[medeia]

anyway gonna take a step back for a bit i am probably a contributing factor to this gamestate

i know i need to be better about how i engage with people in terms of encouraging instead of discouraging

but i really do not know how to make anyone else want to play the game here

so if anyone does please come do so

pedit: yeah me too

[medeia]

[medeia]

and like, you seem to know this? because you say you like meuh's reads (even though she is townreading multiple players you are scumreading) but you are scumreading her nonetheless?

Difference here is that Meuh has a marked lack of engagement. A good readlist is only half of a good town play.

my point there was more that

you are putting weight on these readslists right? like you want players to present them and are presenting one yourself,

but i am not really sure why? like i said readslists are usually pretty whatever to me and you yourself dismissed one that you liked based on other factors

so i wonder why you think that's an important factor for you to be able sort someone and for others to be able to sort you

like why the focus on that

[medeia]

I feel like t3 is scummy

I feel like we have enough players to eliminate T3, it's just not happening because we have decided to wait until the last possible moment. Is this accurate?

i mean, how are you currently weighing t3's scumminess vs the others you are scumreading? like to me it's certainly not a foregone conclusion at this point

[medeia]

also, mm, sorrysorry

stepping back

[medeia]

response to kcdaspot post, spoiled for length

Spoiler:

Page 1: i'm reminded why I hated med's entrance. That was just not the correct question at all. probably woulda been better just to partake in RVS at the time. everything else is just RVS and greetings med takes up most of the content for this page.

i generally do not partake in rvs - it is boring to me and it very seldomly results in sortable content and the last time i did one of my favourite players ended up self-hammering in post 18 - so the less time players spend in rvs the better to me

like i asked skitter a question which sure maybe not the 'correct question' but i do not really think there was a correct question in that situation and that's the one that was on my mind, then you commented on my doing so and such, that is how the game works, what would have possibly been gained by my simply voting someone instead?, why did you think town!me might have been more likely to partake in rvs?, et cetera

like with many things this just feels like criticism of me the person/player to me, and it is kinda hard for me to see why you thought it might be having to do with my alignment

and yet again why use so many words? this is play by post ffs you can slow down and put everything in one post med. that panic still looks real to me so im hoping to gleam a understanding of you game style here so i can make my mind up about you. again, just because you did something in THAT game as town doesn't mean you would or wouldnt do that as scum here.

okay but yet again, why do you think this has anything to do with my alignment? like do you really think town!me doesn't use so many words and scum!me does for some reason? it wasn't panic - like was i posting from a heightened emotional state? somewhat yeah, but it wasn't like, 'oh no i am scum and being scumread whatever will i do!' ya know, like i was being scumread by multiple players for personality traits and i was trying to determine why you and others thought they were scummy, like if you would walk me through the thought process there

because! i am frequently pushed like that by both alignments - scums unfamiliar with me very often push me like that because they think 'ah she is

~weird~

and defensive i can push this' and towns unfamiliar with me often push me like that because they incorrectly correlate differences in approach/playstyle to differences in alignment, and then sometimes towns familiar with me push me because they think they can read my reactions to it like ame used to but that's irrelevant in this case

so i was trying to determine which was more likely and the literal only way i know how to do so is by engaging you about it as i attempted to do and then you just doubled down and scumread that too without actually explaining to me why you thought my behaviour was likely coming from a scums like it felt like you just wanted to push me not actually sort me, as it went from 'question about rvs scummy' to 'trying to work from limited information scummy' to 'reaction also scummy' all while you were refusing to look at any of my other games or to walk me through why you were viewing things the way you were like how you reached the conclusion that it was scummy rather than personality

and yeah i got frustrated and i shouldn't i get it that's on me

and with regards to the meta, at absolutely no point was i (or anyone else as far as i remember) ever trying to say 'i am town here because i was town there' or anything even remotely along those lines

i am absolutely fine with you assuming that my range is infinite and that i have an encyclopedic knowledge of my own meta or whatever, it makes sense for you to ignore the meta in that regard if you wish to view me that way

but your read of me from my perspective was basically

'you're anxious and i don't like your approach to the game or the way you post and therefore you are scum'

and it's like, no that's who i am as you can obviously see from these games i have played recently played

like this is reductive but if you said,

'you are scummy because you don't often capitalize'

and i said

'that is common for me across all games see:'

and you said 'i don't meta that's scum behaviour to me just because you didn't capitalize in that game as town doesn't mean you aren't not capitalizing here as scum'

it wouldn't be all that dissimilar to me to this

which is like ???

like yes i am me and aware of me, given

but why does that make it scummy and not just my personality/posting style and such,

like some of your push isn't even related to the game of mafia to me like most of your criticisms in this post are like ??? like i often respond to discord or text messages with multiple successive messages too i am probably not scum there

like i get it if you're town here you obviously don't like the way i play (or maybe simply the way i post) which is fine and i am often iterating and will take your criticisms under advisement for future mes, though it is pretty hard to discuss that sort of thing during the game because of unknown alignments like i really don't feel like explaining how i have come to type the way i type to then find out you are mafia simply pushing me to waste my time and look like you're doing something

but it is what it is and while i am open to the criticism (i spent time in preview to make this all one post and am trying to take a step back here because i feel like maybe my presence here is overbearing and making people not want to post) i still don't see why you think any of the above is related to my alignment

Let me do a part 2 later.

you can just assume i am town for the purposes of the rest of this project - i am still interested in thoughts on other slots/the rest of the ongoings of the game but would rather you just get back to the present quicker rather than focusing on me further like i don't really think you need to sort me right now if you're town

[medeia]

Wdym by 'cats paw'

Acting under orders, basically.

tirer marrons du feu

[medeia]

There's like multiple telling you that tho

I expressed my scumread of medeia before anyone talked about meta or anything. When I read through the demona game I noticed some differences, in this game I noticed that medeia often used language like “I guess” moreso than in the demona game.

wait is this even true? ctrl+f 'guess' found 63 results in inutile game iso and 59 results in demona game iso and 20 results here so far

I didn’t read through the inutile game but there have been 15 or so pages this game but 60 in the demona game. There is a difference but not by much. I do feel like I’m a bit tunneled on you tbh

i was killed night 1 of the demona game but i don't really see how this was relevant or like a good use of your time anyway

like do you think i am more likely to say 'i guess' as a scums and if so why

[medeia]

am pretty okay with skitter continuing to steer the ship here

back to the shadows

[medeia]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

sorry i just feel like you generally have a better perspective on my interactions with others than i do based on past experiences and i feel like i am getting lost in the sea here like i don't actually know what to make of both kcdaspot spending three days on this mission and random nurse disappearing after it became apparent i was not viable here and i... kinda just want to believe in your reads here as i mostly agree with the rest and you've seemed pretty towny to me and i worry i am making people not want to play and yeah

[medeia]

if i assume kcdaspot and random nurse are town i feel similarly, so

though i wouldn't really say i am confident here either

can look closer and try to focus

also thankyou and i like playing with you too which i hope you know

[medeia]

are we just yeeting T3 here cuz if thats what every1 wants im willing to go there just to get this game moving again since it feels like we stopped playing for w/e reason

i am maybe a little wary that everyone seems to be content with this (including t3) but eh there's so much absence that i am not really sure if that means anything

[medeia]

i cant believe skitter thinks random nurse is town when his vote has been planted on medeia for an entire week and his reasoning for wanting to vote out medeia is because she's not playing the game correctly its absolutely wild but I guess im ok with it

I kinda want to hear what random nurse comes back with
And t3

Yeah idk why this is dead

i kinda want t3 to claim here - can just assume intent from me/pooky

like there's a little over two days left on deadline:

(expired on 2023-07-17 14:12:57)

and i am obviously fine with using our time and i would also like to hear what random nurse and t3 come back with and for kcdaspot to get back to the present and give thoughts and so on and so forth

but! it's not like t3 has been towny here and i don't really want to spend a whole day waiting for claim with deadline looming

[medeia]

the worst world is if the team is random nurse + skitter because then if i'm right I won't get to gloat later

that actually kind of makes sense as a team given how much Joker dude keeps interacting with Tiger Lady and she keeps pretending he's not massively scummy even tho his reads are diametrically opposite hers and they don't even make sense

still feel like skitter's approach to me was ++town and she was doing ~something when 3 of us were absent, 4 were lurking and 1 was useless (me)

like do i think scum!skitter is capable of making every post she has made? yeah, but i don't really see that much incentive for her to have done so

and i can think of multiple times where i had a similar interaction to the one i had with random nurse here where someone was pushing me in a way that i really did not feel like it was coming from town to me and skitter was like 'i think you're probably both town here' where skitter was right and i can't really think of an applicable counterexample, so i am trying to seeeeee ya know even though it still feels !!! to me

[medeia]

I'm gonna declare a

GENERAL MEETING TIME

which is going to be Saturday Night EST[I know you all don't have lives since you're playing mafia on 1980s internet software] so you all better show up and prepare to town it up if you're town.

i should be able to be around on and off

[medeia]

would be nice if anyone did the come town it up thing really

[medeia]

still feel like skitter's approach to me was ++town and she was doing ~something when 3 of us were absent, 4 were lurking and 1 was useless (me)

uh what do you think scum!skitter's approach to be again?

just feel like scum!skitter would have been much less likely to townread me early when i was under pressure from multiple players like that like trying to pocket me instead of just hanging me out to dry like 'yeah some of that is playstyle but she feels different here' or even like, 'i am not sure what she is trying to say but kcdaspot feels towny to me' that sort of thing i would expect from scum!her there i think

[medeia]

like why would she basically? when she could easily play it like 'shrug those pushing her seem towny to me i am not opposed to this'

like she doesn't actually have to hedge against the possibility people realize i am town because scum!her can just also make the same 'realization'

[medeia]

i probably owe it to everyone to solve as much as i can while i am here but it feels so difficult and most of my thoughts are the same as earlier

don't really know why chicagotypewriter was focused on readslists the way he was felt like he was just trying to find something to post about/interact with others about and the tallying potential scumreads of t3/asking skitter about her vote didn't really feel like he was trying to find a likely mafia instead of simply reaching a consensus but idk if that's actually scum indicative

still feel like meuh's early posting may have been angling to be able to vote for me and the 'not somewhere i really want to push today'/'i can understand why my angle on medeia looks scummy' sort of things seem like she may be resigning herself to nightkilling me if i squint, and the e-1 vote on t3 while random nurse was saying i should be flipped and such seemed potentially sneaky but like 'oopsies!' so idk, i wouldn't really say she has been solving here though

t3's vote/unvote after skitter voiced opposition to it still feels ??? to me like trying to reverse engineer it from a town perspective i can imagine t3 being like 'okay wait that doesn't make that much sense' or whatever but the providing reasoning for both the vote and unvote like that harder to see and otherwise general thoughts on the game don't feel like they are going anywhere

kcdaspot was hyperfocused on me and the push on me felt like it kept changing just so he could continue to push me and it didn't feel like he was actually trying to sort me and then when i was not a viable elimination he dipped to spend days and days rereading the game and the five pages he got through mostly just felt like resummarizing like no idea how he's using that to sort anyone just feels like a thing he is doing - which to be fair would be ??? scum play but it is also pretty ??? town play

i liked the town contract from random nurse but his reads haven't made sense to me and the push on me for not voting pooky was meh and then he also largely disappeared which i am trying not to read into too much because he said he was busy/overextended

feel like i am giving a pooky a pass right now and just hoping he is town because of game state but he has felt towny to me at times

and ceejayvinoya kinda just feels towny to me?

if anyone wants to help me try to weigh those things etc please do

[medeia]

don't really know why chicagotypewriter was focused on readslists the way

he

was felt like

he

was just trying to find something to post about/interact with others about and the tallying potential scumreads of t3/asking skitter about her vote didn't really feel like

he

was trying to find a likely mafia instead of simply reaching a consensus but idk if that's actually scum indicative

sorry

...the way chicagotypewriter was...

...felt like chicagotypewriter was...

...fee like chicagotyperwriter was...

[medeia]

could you maybe also give some thoughts on the game while you're here?

like i am fine with t3 claiming as i said above but would also like more than

'game's dragging t3 should claim' from you

especially since part of game dragging is due to absence of you/others

[medeia]

also e-1 et cetera et cetera

[medeia]

Also to you, Medeia, what do you think about the current T3 wagon? What does your gut tell you?

the same basically with regards to t3 - feels kinda scummy to me / isn’t really playing the game

with regards to the wagon idk hard to judge wagon behaviour when noone’s posting like maybe(?) it’s odd that everyone is okay with it dunno

[medeia]

t3 can ghost as either alignment its basically a coin flip of sorts, i dont feel great about it but hes kind of being deadweight

It doesn't help that he's not engaging much, and I don't know if he's Scum or not, but I am willing to compromise on a lil if it means getting a flip.

What I would prefer is if he jumps in and starts engaging more. Now that I have a small bubble of time I can pick at this game a bit and just let my thoughts flow.

i mean, i would prefer this as well and if you have someway of encouraging this please do lol

[medeia]

elimming T3 Pros/Cons:

Pro:
t3 kinda scummy/ votes dont really make sense
ghosted the game low activity deadweight
not really voting or pushing for anything
basically quit on us
will move game foward

Cons:
Two people possibly TMI'd him as town
dead game dead villager
so many people dont care about this elim
no counterwagon really
barely any information from him
feels like we will be operating p low info in d2
he could easily flake as townie

is there an elimination you think would be high info here?

also sucks being restricted to phone when people are actually posting will be back home in a couple hours

[medeia]

not that i care about ‘information’ vs most likely was just curious as that didn’t really seem like an option to me yea

[medeia]

not that i care about ‘information’ vs most likely was just curious as that didn’t really seem like an option to me yea

Was this directed at me?

If so could you please clarify what this is about?

no sorry was a follow up to question to pooky re: high info flip

[medeia]

To be honest I don't feel confident about a T3 lim. Meuh does give me gut Scum vibes. Kcdaspot I'm not too sure about either, but I feel more uneasy about the Meuh slot. All 3 of them actually discussing instead of reactively fighting would actually be fruitful.

If we're talking a lim that yields the most data it would be Medeia based on all her exchans, but I'm not currently sold on her being Scum.

would also be asking for a claim from meuh here were meuh and t3 swapped for what it's worth

the 'data' this would yield is that i am town lol

and my reads aren't accurate enough to sheep them or anything especially not when based on limited information so that's about all yeah

can get the same thing from just assuming i am town or waiting for me to get nightkilled

[medeia]

can u claim dude

and like who do you want to lim today? can u vote that person?

[medeia]

I’ve had exactly one game as VT ever where I have not been limmed or vigged.

unless this was a claim i guess?

[medeia]

gonna make dinner quick then i'll be around

[medeia]

I don’t really know how to play mafia tbh

i don't really know how to play mafia either and i can relate to frustrations with being scumread if you're town here but noone is asking you to completely solve the game or anything ya know

like just pick a post or something that has happened in the game or whatever and talk about it, the possible intentions you see for those involved, how you are weighing the likelihoods of those intentions, et cetera

like multiple players have asked you about your feelings on your wagon and such and it's like,

did you feel meuh's e-1 vote on the initial wagon was truly accidental? that initial wagon was {chicagotypewriter, ceejayvinoya, pookythemagicalbear, meuh} at it's height and three of those players have returned to your wagon now and the fourth has stated a willingness to eliminate you, does that mean anything to you with regards to their possible alignments?, what possible explanations can you think of for why that wagon dissipated in the first place? skitter then inspired the reorganization of that wagon by asking you/meuh/chicagotypewriter about your willingnesses to vote eachother? did it feel like skitter might have had a sinister motivation for doing so to you? meuh and chicagotypewriter have both expressed doubts about one another's alignments but have also both seemed very comfortable on your wagon alongside eachother, does that seem potentially noteworthy to you? et cetera et cetera

like literally you can just pick anything at all from the game and share your thoughts on it give players a chance to see if you're town

[medeia]

but also at this point the claim at the very least yeah

[medeia]

I'm getting cold feet tho

i feel itchy about it but it's like ...

[medeia]

idk like the wagon feels not quite right but i can't tell if its just my uneasiness

[medeia]

yeah that

[medeia]

sigh pagetop

[medeia]

i am hoping meuh comes to the meeting so i can talk to her here to try to feel better about someone maybe,

like right now it's not like t3 feels towny to me here or even like, not scummy?, so it's mostly just my uneasiness about the wagon,

[medeia]

I've like eyed alternatives to T3 but they all look just thoroughly unexciting

hmm, what little things did you like from chicagotypewriter?

[medeia]

Looking at the PL right now and ceejay's the only one there that I could maybe find more appealing as a vote if I were to check out his posting again but last I really thought about him I thought he looked okay
But also me forgetting about him maybe makes him scummy in this gamestate

mmm, ceejayvinoya has felt pretty towny to me

have agreed with most of what they've said and like,

the thoughts on chicagotypewriter didn't feel made up like 'you sure demand alot' > 'this hurts my head but seems town' felt like, like thoughts that don't really give any benefit to type as mafia

[medeia]

and also wouldn't be like, ones that seem super likely to come to mind to me

[medeia]

Why isn't Random Nurse an alt wagon, again?

why do you think random nurse should be? thoughts on current state of t3 wagon? recent thoughts on meuh?

[medeia]

recent thoughts on meuh?

like recent thoughts as in your current view not thoughts on recent meuh posting specifically but can include that too

[medeia]

Why isn't Random Nurse an alt wagon, again?

also to answer your question i am mostly deferring to skitter there and random nurse posting from this morning felt okay to me though i guess i should look over it again

[medeia]

well i guess that doesn't actually answer the question the answer is more that i think pooky is the only one who has stated a great desire for such a wagon

[medeia]

Now? For starters, UNVOTE: T3, that vote isn't doing anything useful there.

I still maintain my scumread

, I just want to move it.

Bleghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
VOTE: CT

what did you like

when you looked over chicagotypewriter's to judge t3 v chicagotypewriter?

[medeia]

here:

I considered T3 vs Chicago as votes yesterday but T3's done nothing I found townie while Chicago has at least had little things I enjoyed, so I'm not compelled to change my vote there

i mean

[medeia]

I'm headed off in like 15 minutes cause I'm up early tomorrow, if there's anything else to ask I can answer rn

mm, i am kinda worried about how convenient the results of how these iso overviews have felt but i do not know how to make that into a question

[medeia]

Will you claim, CT?

In theory, yes if the situation demands it. Currently, no. I'd need intent to hammer to roleclaim.

intent, please claim, etc

[medeia]

I'm headed off in like 15 minutes cause I'm up early tomorrow, if there's anything else to ask I can answer rn

mm, i am kinda worried about how convenient the results of how these iso overviews have felt but i do not know how to make that into a question

idk still having such a hard time shaking this

like meuh comes to thread after skitter says she'd go to chicagotypewriter or meuh

meuh says she has looked at alternatives to t3 previously but they're unappealing,

then says maybe ceejayvinoya? skitter and i both say nah ceejayvinoya towny

then meuh looks at ceejayvinoya iso and finds him to be towny as well

then she looks at chicagotypewriter iso and finds all of these things that were like, always there

and it's like, mmm,

like it feels like that may have been where that series of posts was always going like a to b to c ope here we are

[medeia]

eh im doing meta on CT and I think it feels closer to his scum game than his town game actually lemme know what you think?

his town games feel more interactivey in terms of like figuring things out while his scum game feels more like detective exposition

town:
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91019&user_select%5B%5D=37043
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91110&user_select%5B%5D=37043

scum:
viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=90895&user_select%5B%5D=37043

I'm also like about to pass out, i'll be around tommorrow to vote

came to a similar conclusion re:chicagotypewriter's meta earlier but hadn't looked at 2125 yet

like chicagotypewriter just feels so much more downhill in the town games than he does here

and he also seemed to have a similar issue with being in the present in native plants

maybe the compiling readslists and trying to reach a consensus vote that way is an approach thing as he seemed to do something somewhat similar in one of the town games but eh

[medeia]

Second step - seriously, Pooky? Yeah, I get that you analyzed my scumgame and have determined that this Day 1 is 'closer' to the scumgame. It's because of the posting volume here more than anything else, I went behind like eight pages at one point this game and I'm trying to claw back interaction. Sure, I'm taking flack for it (and I don't mind) but don't pretend a single scumgame is the end-all of comparison analysis.

like sure limited sample etc etc said as much previously but it's like

like most of the time here it has felt like you are dodging interaction rather than 'trying to claw back interaction' to me like i feel like multiple times i have tried to engage you maybe see why with regards to various things and you've left and then returned without addressing like it's just gone

pedit: hmm

[medeia]

intent, please claim, etc

Yeah, fine, this was inevitable I suppose. I was hoping to push this off a bit.
Claim: Town PR, unspecified X-power type.

like i know you know how the unspecified claim thing went in native plants so this is pretty ??? to me

[medeia]

mm

[medeia]

Ok let's do meuh then

do you think scum!chicagotypewriter would be less likely to do the

'i am a pr' thing because malakittens drew heat for it

or more likely because it worked and she gained a day

[medeia]

idk guess it doesn't matter if chance it is truthful outweighs just mmm

[medeia]

Where would he have even gotten the idea to fake-claim x-shot

idk partner possibly it's not like he didn't have time to think about it or ask or anything depending

would vote meuh but deadline paused/reset to two days so no need right now

will return in ~5 hours

[medeia]

Where would he have even gotten the idea to fake-claim x-shot

idk partner possibly it's not like he didn't have time to think about it or ask or anything depending

nevermind this

i think the 'x-power' phrasing is far more likely to come from paraphrasing than a partner so yeah

could be mafia x-shot role in theory i guess but eh

[medeia]

have you read the game?

[medeia]

Is that L-1?

I'm OK with hammering for time, but I want Meuh a chance to speak/claim first.

I am announcing

intent to hammer

to keep this game on track. Need you to start talking Meuh.

i can e-1 here

VOTE: meuh

for the purposes of claim and such

but please do not hammer yet regardless of claim or whatever please

i can stay up late and sit down with the game tonight and would like the chance to do so (and maybe(?) give sheepsaysmeep time to get caught up before deadline as well)

if you're not going to be around past that point (maybe 10-11 hours from now or so) and are worried about no elimination for some reason please just ask me to unvote here so you can vote now instead

[medeia]

Pooky, Skitter, and Ceejay are voting Meuh.

Chicago are you able to move your vote onto Meuh? Also want to know what T3, Medeia, and Sheep are doing on this Meuh wagon. No quickhammers please.

i guess i don't understand what you think might have changed for me between here:

would vote meuh but deadline paused/reset to two days so no need right now

and now

unless you think i might have found 'i know that seems scummy but it is actually not' particularly appealing

from memory most of what meuh was saying there was similar to thoughts already shared by me/others so it's hard for me to see what she means by 'look at my thoughts not my possible intentions' when it's like,

...the thoughts are part of the reason i am viewing it that way? ya know

[medeia]

UNVOTE:

[medeia]

yeah?

[medeia]

I tried going down rabbit holes to find the OG identity, how many alt accounts does this user have bruh

uh, a lot

have probably played on 30 or so and created at least twice that many?

the first one was team rocket queen but those games are rather embarrassing

[medeia]

Ehhhhhhh i'm cool with voting out meuh
But i can see myself voting ct here again too

idk i'll follow you into the dark but this kinda feels like inviting disaster to me

like do you really think it's likely that scum!chicagotypewriter would claim the x-shot part of his mafia role?

or do you think there's like, another plausible mafia explanation for that?

or just you think he's so scummy that it outweighs

[medeia]

Wow that's more than i would have guessed, i thought like 10

most of them are ones you would know or at least recognize as me if you encountered but a handful are ones i created to try to see if i could successfully avoid being made by hectic/datisi

[medeia]

I think CT is towny

I was in CT newbie game where he was town, and I correctly townread him based on skimming his prior newbie game where he was scum. so I consider myself a mild CT expert. I think medeia also referenced those games so I am curious her current read on him


also 333 feels too egregious to be newbscum

i replaced into the newbie where he was scum and at the very least correctly poed him before being nightkilled and this game he has felt more like that to me than the other games i looked over

like in the town games he just felt downhill like 'i have found this piece of evidence, now answer for it!' and here he feels like, 'here is this thing is noticed, the end'

but now it's like, claim outweighs meta stuff so, better to try to determine validity of that

[medeia]

Maybe I should be fighting for myself but I'm unconvinced that an alternative vote goes much better/that I won't end up limmed on a future day regardless (unless my brain magically clicks into the game, I guess that's possible)

maybe i am still being unfair to you but my brain was like 'oh maybe she is not fighting for herself because of the way we reacted to t3 not doing so

[medeia]

Maybe I should be fighting for myself but I'm unconvinced that an alternative vote goes much better/that I won't end up limmed on a future day regardless (unless my brain magically clicks into the game, I guess that's possible)

maybe i am still being unfair to you but my brain was like 'oh maybe she is not fighting for herself because of the way we reacted to t3 not doing so

which like, i am not even sure the behaviour of your wagon is all that much better than t3's was to me? in terms of the likelihood of you being a scums

i guess depending upon how likely it is that chicagotypewriter is town,

or just trying to play into the not fighting for yourself / partner not trying to fight for you / no counterwagon thing

idk could be you/t3 i guess

[medeia]

Meh

(it feels like you also seem to know i am town with the 'yeah i can see why you view it that way' sort of things which maybe you have stopped suspecting me but yeah)

pedit: oh okay nevermind

[medeia]

hmhmhm

yup don't know how to not be paranoid about this either

[medeia]

Though I also tend to engage with people on the basis that they're town and dislike weird accusatory 1v1s so I feel like I'd behave similarly if I still thought you were likely to flip scum here

which fair i try to do so as well it's not the way you engaged about it as much as that being how you viewed those thoughts from me in the first place

like i feel like you have said you think i could easily make believable reads as scum (though you were saying as much as scum i assume you probably believe that?) so your immediate thought being like, yeah i see how you see it that way is kinda Hm to me

but townreading now so eh

[medeia]

like do you really think it's likely that scum!chicagotypewriter would claim the x-shot part of his mafia role?

idk i guess this doesn't seem like that unlikely to me ugh

[medeia]

idk if it's me being tired but I have no clue what that post is saying

sorry i am also very tired so could be me

just that like

you believe scum!me makes believable reads, right

i talked about what was bothering me about a series of posts you've made

and your reactions to these were 'i see why you might be viewing it that way'

without like, any suspicion,

like it wasn't engaging me on the basis that i was town but rather like it seemed like you were thinking of me as town

if that makes sense

[medeia]

Doesn't seem like it

would have been nice if he did though

i get it is selfish of me and noone need give me the 'rolefishing bad' speech here

but i kinda just want to make as informed of a decision as i can and yeah

[medeia]

idk if it's me being tired but I have no clue what that post is saying

sorry i am also very tired so could be me

just that like

you believe scum!me makes believable reads, right

i talked about what was bothering me about a series of posts you've made

and your reactions to these were 'i see why you might be viewing it that way'

without like, any suspicion,

like it wasn't engaging me on the basis that i was town but rather like it seemed like you were thinking of me as town

if that makes sense

but now you've stated you are / have been townreading me so it's like, guess you could have simply been thinking of me as town,

[medeia]

can someone summarize claims stuff for me

here is chicagotypewriter claim:

Claim: Town PR, unspecified X-power type.

quoted because formatting potentially relevant due to its uncommonness

like chicagotypewriter has only played in newbie games previously thus likely not to have encountered x-shot roles at least not in game so yeah

like i don't think(?) anyone else in this game would be likely to refer to x-shot as x-power so i think that probably comes from paraphrasing

[medeia]

can someone summarize claims stuff for me

here is chicagotypewriter claim:

Claim: Town PR, unspecified X-power type.

quoted because formatting potentially relevant due to its uncommonness

like chicagotypewriter has only played in newbie games previously thus likely not to have encountered x-shot roles at least not in game so yeah

like i don't think(?) anyone else in this game would be likely to refer to x-shot as x-power so i think that probably comes from paraphrasing

whether paraphrased from actual town pr or not, dunno hard to weigh

[medeia]

can someone summarize claims stuff for me

here is chicagotypewriter claim:

Claim: Town PR, unspecified X-power type.

quoted because formatting potentially relevant due to its uncommonness

like chicagotypewriter has only played in newbie games previously thus likely not to have encountered x-shot roles at least not in game so yeah

like i don't think(?) anyone else in this game would be likely to refer to x-shot as x-power so i think that probably comes from paraphrasing

another potentially relevant bit is that malakittens claimed an unspecified pr and refused to elaborate in native plants newbie as chicagotypewriter's mafia partner and some players reacted !! to this but it did successfully buy her a day and skitter and i were among those who opted for not eliminating her

[medeia]

(also not ignoring you meuh metatime i suppose)

[medeia]

okay i don't know i am kinda just like ~reading meuh games at this point

sometimes she feels Town in a way she does not here but not always so

maybe i can see what she is saying in 677 though yeah

[medeia]

I have a really hard time limming day1 pr claims >.>

we can leap of faith if you want to here and if you're a scums you can laugh at me from the scum pt as pooky would say

[medeia]

i dont actually believe meuh is town but I am happy to follow our fearless Tiger Commander wherever she wants to go.

i don't know like everything keeps feeling like

like it is playing to what she would want/need to do as mafia here

like even the interacting with me here ya know

but i don't know this conversation and also the claim post earlier feel like

like on some level she is simply saying 'it is okay medeia, i understand'

and that seems maybe towny to me

[medeia]

page 18

I dont really buy pooky's worldview as genuine

the "TMI for saying that youll kill quickhammerers" takes were bad imo, at least I am probably a less experienced mafia player than him and I see it come from town every micro, and he makes it a big thing

I think his stance on skitter is bad / he is not truly evaluating her enough, I think skitter has lots of readable content that I personally think is towny and he's just a stagnant "lol skitter scum btw" from page 1 that's too weirdly like "saving for later" idk

I was actually going to link him the even/odd micro for as a way to show Nurse town. I think him concluding Nurse scum from that game is the incorrect conclusion imo in a way that's +0.5% scum. like at surface level that ISO feels different from that ISO, but understanding Nurse's mindset in that game makes him comfortably town for me in this game. there was lots of LAMISTy "we as a town need to work together why the fuck aren't u working with me." his reads and approach to solving just feel very similar

main worries about pooky are that the like 'battle pooky' interaction with random nurse felt maybe less all-in than i might expect from pooky who strongly believed that random nurse was scum there and the kinda like, willingness to just eliminate whoever here but i don't really think it's fair to say that's pooky-specific in this situation

but like i don't know have been a lot of opportunities for pooky to do the openwolf thing he loves to do here and he's kinda just been riding it out see where it goes

which sure town could just be off altogether here and then yeah seems fine to just say 'sure whatever' to anything i guess

[medeia]

i dont actually believe meuh is town but I am happy to follow our fearless Tiger Commander wherever she wants to go.

i don't know like everything keeps feeling like

like it is playing to what she would want/need to do as mafia here

like even the interacting with me here ya know

but i don't know this conversation and also the claim post earlier feel like

like on some level she is simply saying 'it is okay medeia, i understand'

and that seems maybe towny to me

but i guess that would probably also be the goal of it if she were scum here sigh

[medeia]

I was going to rescind my CT townread because I thought "CT engages and asks questions more as town" was valid but 539 involves villagery emotions imo

if your reads are just a vehicle to get present views to where they need to be or whatever you're doing a pretty good job of disguising that

it is kinda hard to compare your replace-in here to past ones since most of the ones i found were like 80+ page games at the time you replaced in

but at the very least it doesn't seem like you are still going to be catching up a week later like in schadd's game

[medeia]

heading to bed

i will be able to check the game on and off throughout the day leading up to deadline but this is where i'm at

VOTE: meuh

[medeia]

[medeia]

e-1 of course

if you're going to be around there's no need to hammer now

[medeia]

sorry meuh +(

[medeia]

Nobody is deaded?

Chicago u need to claim your action

VOTE: pooky

Ah, yes, so I'm the reason no one is dead. A little thing called

2-Shot Bulletproof

. It kinds of seems unfair to the scumteam to be honest; but it's just a defensive role, so I'm going to have to rely on the offensive PRos for the rest.

if you are town trueclaiming here you should claim 1-shot in this situation in the future so if you did in fact prevent the kill you could maybe get the scums to shoot you again

[medeia]

Nobody is deaded?

Chicago u need to claim your action

VOTE: pooky

Ah, yes, so I'm the reason no one is dead. A little thing called

2-Shot Bulletproof

. It kinds of seems unfair to the scumteam to be honest; but it's just a defensive role, so I'm going to have to rely on the offensive PRos for the rest.

if you are town trueclaiming here you should claim 1-shot in this situation in the future so if you did in fact prevent the kill you could maybe get the scums to shoot you again

which, mm, idk

like could in theory be trying to confirm yourself and! explain your continued presence later on i guess but the +/- of skipping a nightkill to do so kinda eh

but barring another possible explanation for the missing nightkill it's that or truthful i guess so yeah

probably town

[medeia]

I think if anyone else had a mechanism of stopping the nightkill they should just hardclaim?

if no one does then chicago is 100% confirmed town which is nice

and if something gets outed then oh well the day before MELO is an ok day for massclaim anyways

i, kinda want to massclaim here anyway for related and un-related reasons i guess

like in theory chicagotypewriter could have not nightkilled to try to confirm self and such so not 100%

but also,

i am an odd-night checker and my action on random nurse last night was not successful which is the only maybe relevant result i am capable of (i think) and there's probably a reason my role is in the setup, so

or at the very least for random nurse to claim or if someone else has an explanation for the above and also if there's another reason for the missing nightkill? i guess

[medeia]

Is checker one of these new-fangled normal roles? What's a checker

just checks to see if my action is successful

notably not my target's

[medeia]

which sure my result could mean like ~alot of things but yeah

[medeia]

medeia - odd-night checker
chicagotypewriter - two-shot bulletproof(?)
meuh - vanilla town
pooky - vanilla town(?)
skitter - vanilla town(?)
t3 - ?
ceejayvinoya - ?
random nurse - ?
sheepsaysmeep - ?

[medeia]

Is it better for me to claim after the people I find scummy rather than before

eh seems like such a marginal advantage better for it to take less time

[medeia]

Hey, so, I jailed Medeia Night 1.

I'm Town Jailkeeper.

i mean, this

would

explain my result

hmhmhm

i struggle so much with coincidence

[medeia]

3 town non-vt seems like it could be pushing it for 9p?

idk kinda hard to evaluate the usefulness of my role with the information at hand but it seems like maybe too much power here yeah

not like any 3 non-vts would be but as long as my role functions as a semi-investigative it seems like a lot and i don't really think my role would be in the setup if the only non-successful result it could yield was if jailkept or targeting the same target as the jailkeeper?

like assuming t3 and ceejayvinoya claim vanilla town the claimed setup would be:

4 vanilla town
odd-night checker
jailkeeper
two-shot bulletproof

2 mafia ?

so i would think at least one of the mafias would probably be ascetic? otherwise it's just red herring role

like even if that was the setup and there was a mafia jailkeeper or roleblocker as well which would potentially grant more non-successes making sense out of that information would be kinda difficult?

well let's see

yeah like mafia is rather unlikely to claim the roleblock in most situations so if i got back a no success on someone that was roleblocked it'd just be messy i think so likely there is a relevant success yeah

and if there is a relevant success it seems like maybe too much power

[medeia]

Because I felt either she's the Towniest Town and I needed to protect her OR she's very good Scum looking like the Towniest Town and dishing out death with delight.

if you are indeed town here then it seems somewhat possible to me that you did successfully protect me

like assume town!random nurse options would then be:

chicagotypewriter is also town and was targeted with the nightkill -> possible due to pr claim and such but setup seems maybe unlikely

or

chicagotypewriter is also town but i was targeted with the nightkill and saved by the jailkeep and chicagotypewriter simply assumed it was him -> which would be logical behaviour from chicagotypewriter in that situation i think just don't know how likely that setup would be

or

chicagotypewriter is not town and chose not to kill in order to make more believable bulletproof claim -> thought this was kinda unlikely even before there was another possible explanation for the missing nightkill; like in theory there'd be a lot of mafia benefit to this - believable claim, 2-shot so it explains continued presence later in the game even though he'd be 'confirmed' - but skipping the nightkill would be a big tradeoff for this and in practice i don't know how likely mafia are to do this

or

chicagotypewriter is not town and attempted to kill me and i was saved by the jailkeep and chicagotypewriter took this opportunity to claim bulletproof -> which would be pretty quick thinking i think but the missing nightkill would certainly be on the scums minds and this does not seem impossible or even super unlikely to me, and has added benefit of probably uncovering how the nightkill was actually prevented

[medeia]

I'm thinking if I were a mafia JK I'll just target the x-shot unspecified pr just in case...

of course RN could still be scum ascetic but it's weird that there's both an ascetic and a bulletproof in a setup

i mean, mafia cannot target the x-shot unspecified pr claim with both a jailkeeper and the nightkill (well i guess they could but...)

like if random nurse is a mafia jailkeeper, or partner could be the jailkeeper as well i guess, then based on result it would have obviously been better to nightkill me and jailkeep chicagotypewriter

but... that's not what happened, and if random nurse is a scums then it doesn't seem like all that unlikely of a course of action to me either?

i don't know still think the setup would be weird without an ascetic here

like even if random nurse is truthful it still seems kinda likely to me that there is an ascetic?

but maybe i am evaluating my role and what it means for the setup altogether incorrectly

when i targeted random nurse i thought it checked to see if my target's action was successful not my own so it seems very possible to me that i am misevaluating

[medeia]

ceeja feels towny on this page lol

i like how often our thoughts line up (like with the claiming the remaining shots thing) and am going to force myself not to get paranoid about this

[medeia]

i dont really think a checker and a jailkeeper can coexist in a mini because the chance for false positives is p high
if the mafia are ascetics then JK doesnt work on the roleblock side
also 1 JKer 6 VT 2 Mafia is a balanced setup so it doesnt rlly fit with bulletproof/checker
also its weird you didnt push back on the CT claim if you're a JK because JK doesnt really fit

i guess the false positives do not seem impossible to me design wise but i really do not think there would be

only

false positives without any 'true' positives