Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Korina]

VC 1.15

Rauthedir (5):

Radical Rat, DragonEater70, camelCasedSnivy, Titus, Abnegation

DragonEater70 (4):

Ranger, Save The Dragons, Aureal, KatyKimFanClub

Abnegation (2):

sheepsaysmeep, Doctor Drew

KatyKimFanClub (1):

WhemeStar

camelCasedSnivy (1):

Random Nurse

Aureal (1):

Rautherdir

Kyoko Kirigiri (1):

usesPython

Doctor Drew (0):

sheepsaysmeep (0):

WhemeStar (0):

Random Nurse (0):

usesPython (0):

Save the Dragons (0):

Ranger (0):

Radical Rat (0):

Morning Tweet (0):

Titus (0):

Flea the Magician (0):

Merlyn (0):

Not Voting (4):

Flea the Magician, Morning Tweet, Kyoko Kirigiri, Merlyn

With

19

known votes, it takes

10

of them to achieve a majority.

Deadline is in:

(expired on 2023-07-17 00:30:00)

Moderator Notes:

- Titus is V/LA until July 7th, 2023.
- Ranger is V/LA every Sunday/Monday for July.

Nightmare

Radical Rat's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, Abnegation, Aureal, Radical Rat, usesPython, DragonEater70, Titus] (3):

Radical Rat, Abnegation, camelCasedSnivy

Random Nurse's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, Random Nurse, usesPython, camelCasedSnivy, Abnegation] (1):

Random Nurse

DragonEater70's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, DragonEater70, usesPython, Abnegation, Aureal, Titus] (1):

DragonEater70

Ranger's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, Ranger, usesPython, Abnegation, KatyKimFanclub, Rautherdir, Radical Rat, sheepsaysmeep, Aureal, Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy] (1):

Ranger

KatyKimFanClub's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, KatyKimFanClub, usesPython, Radical Rat, Ranger, Morning Tweet, Random Nurse] (1):

KatyKimFanClub

usesPython's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, usesPython, Ranger, Abnegation, Radical Rat, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal] (1):

usesPython


With

19

known votes, it takes

10

of them to achieve a majority.

Doctor Drew is confirmed.

Spoiler: Pronouns

Pronoun Key

Later

Spoiler: Votes I'm Mentioning For Some Reason (EMPTY)

Empty

[WhemeStar]

Hi I’m still basically Vla but I was like fck it ima just sheep Ranger but they’ve been voting the same person since post #1 and that’s kinda Sussy to me Ranger

[Random Nurse]

HURT: Every alive player.

I made it to page 15 and my eyes started bleeding. Anything important between pages 15 to now?

Skimming the last five pages now.

[Random Nurse]

Could we please have a current VC?

[sheepsaysmeep]

I started townreading too many ppl idk where scum is supposed to be

[Random Nurse]

VOTE: Unvote

[Random Nurse]

I started townreading too many ppl idk where scum is supposed to be

At this point I'm overwhelmed and have no idea who is who.

If there's a Cult would the mod disclose that fact?

[Rautherdir]

The mod has disclosed the possibility of a cult. There was also a recruit mechanic in the previous version of this game.

[Rautherdir]

I would recommend reading the roles that were in the previous version of this game, as some or even many of them may be present in some form or fashion in this game.

[Rautherdir]

Struggling to find proper scum reads for myself. Dragoneater I don't know one way or other. Drew at this point I think is town or benign 3p. Aureal ... I want to say that they seem to know what's going on pretty well despite limited contributions of their own, but... Not only unsure how accurate that is, it might even be NAI with this game state.

And I mean voting for myself would just be silly.

Ughhhh hmm. Well let me do this, then get some sleep and see what I think of in the morning.
UNVOTE:

[usesPython]

HEAL: old vote

[usesPython]

Huh. I don't remember anything being said about nar so I must not have been paying even less attention than I thought.

On another note though, I think Kyoko is definitely onto something with Ranger and still haven't figured out why Python is after Kyoko now, I think she's town.

Seemed pretty obvious to us that Ranger was softing Masons with Drew, guess we were wrong though

[usesPython]

... Doesn't feel like town or scum would logically suggest 3p wouldn't it. That... would make sense.

If Kyoko thinks it's signalling then bring it to the logical conclusion (assume Drew is town for this):

• town!Kyoko doesn't know Drews alignment so it could be traitor signaling scum or 3p signaling their target
  
• scum!Kyoko knows Drew isn't scum so therefore it can't be traitor signaling scum -> must be 3p signaling their target

it's TMI

[usesPython]

Hmm actually on a second read through there was talk about it being traitor!Ranger for like 20 minutes

[usesPython]

Huh. I don't remember anything being said about nar so I must not have been paying even less attention than I thought.

On another note though, I think Kyoko is definitely onto something with Ranger and still haven't figured out why Python is after Kyoko now, I think she's town.

Seemed pretty obvious to us that Ranger was softing Masons with Drew, guess we were wrong though

To clarify, we figured it out like 2 minutes after posting 848

Yes haha. I like to make separate posts because it makes it easier to go back and reread them as different ideas.

Except that you don't.

You and Alianna had a chat in your PT to make sure she could get post 1000?

He's done the split posting in Mini Normal 2303, I think you're reaching here

Spoiler: Example

Cook, you should definitely investigate one of the people who said "cOoK iS tRuEcLaImInG aS sCuM".

Assuming you are town, those are likely to contain the types of people who want a town rolecop dead, i.e. scum PR's.

If Cook lives today are these results even going to be informative/truthful on Day 2? I think they would only matter if another town investigative role could corroborate things right?

I’m staying here. If it gets me killed then so be it, I’ve always said I don’t need to be alive for town to win.

... Do we need an Odd Night Neapolitan to win?

-A

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

That is defeinitly not mason. and it was so obvious that it isn't so I'm really confused how that thought even came to you

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

... Doesn't feel like town or scum would logically suggest 3p wouldn't it. That... would make sense.

If Kyoko thinks it's signalling then bring it to the logical conclusion (assume Drew is town for this):

• town!Kyoko doesn't know Drews alignment so it could be traitor signaling scum or 3p signaling their target
  
• scum!Kyoko knows Drew isn't scum so therefore it can't be traitor signaling scum -> must be 3p signaling their target

it's TMI

Thats a pure misrep of my thought process. And here I thought I was transparent as transparent could be. I never scum read ranger for the signaling. I think the signaling is "alarming" and I voted her for it. But my scum read on ranger is for ranger dropping me on her reads immediately after the way she did it.

Her signaling is definitely related to her forcing drew in nightmare, and after completely catching up it became less and less likely to be traiutor signaling but still far away from town way of doing it for any reasons.

I'm not caught up on last few pages still

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Then there is your refusal to elaborate anything - but not just that - your refusal to even node along that it was true.

Yeah, I don't believe in giving information needlessly.

How are my reads easy? I actually think I'm being quite perceptive in this game - digging things that everyone else missed to even mention once including with your slot.

Your 'digging' is giving additional reasons for largely group consensus takes at the time.

It's suspiciously like pandering. You're expected to give insight. Your given insight is entirely things which look good, yet provide nothing tangible.

Yes my focus on you is

forced

. by myself. You're odd and not towny. which makes it very rewarding for town!me to figure you out and town!ranger would never argue against that.

I'm aware Kyoko Kirigiri will focus on players when town.

So, too, is a scum-Kyoko aware of this.

I believe your push is specifically your scum-self attempting a mimic of your townplay. I believe it's scum-Kirigiri-mimicking rather than a genuine town-Kyoko because the push has fundamental issues in ways I don't believe a town-Kirigiri would have.

I don't think its needlessly. If a town decides to duel, they go public about their reasoning. If a town forces a player in nightmare they also need explaining it in same fashion. Now what is odd here is that you signalled to him heavily that you trust him even though his play seems scummy while refusing to claim anything regarding how you forced him in nightmare to town which created confusion in town. That is by definition anti town game play.

Now this doesn't refute the possibility of that you might still be a town - enabler type of character that is heavily equipped to boost drew without knowing his alignment apparently - but why would you not clarify that much to town if that was the case so people would understand where you're coming from? It's not a super power to enable someone else who is either scum or even scum has no idea if their another type of scum or town. which makes this play for a town!you even more anti town

now what options are left? That you're also a type of scum - harming or non harming town I'm not sure - that is equipped to contact drew for some reason. typical interactions like that are traitor and lawyer/survivor

from me catching up on game it started leaning more on second one, and by your play/other reasons I feel this is not a town!you playing.

Now tell me is this analysis "easy", "digging unnecessary" or "anti town"? Town you would definitely see how necessary is persuing this for town!me to at least create a conscious that's aware of you and drew interaction.

How is what I'm providing not tangible for you? The reason I think you're scum is for you claiming this is not tangible. Town!you should have seen this differently.

Also that last part of your reasoning is ridiculous. You and me both know that no action or reaction in a mafia game is a town or scum tell on its own. everyone can fake anything or be real about anything at any time. Its about seeing the mind set that's behind those actions and reactions and to see if its used for solve or not. How is this not me solving that you think its scum!me mimicking a "zoom" my town!me does and not a real "zoom" to actually solve you? Why you're skipping the actual part of reasoning you're scum reading my push on you and simply saying its scum!me in your head mimicking my town play? Why its scum!me mimicking my town play and not just town me?

So I legit you didn't try to solve my push on you there and you just started throwing excuses for the dropping of my name when I called you on it

[usesPython]

That is defeinitly not mason. and it was so obvious that it isn't so I'm really confused how that thought even came to you

How? Ranger only ever punning Drews name + Rat's case on why Ranger probably put Drew in the nightmare + Rangers 782 made it seem like a Mason Nightmare Decider

-A

[usesPython]

Also curious to know why you didn't ask rat that either given that 1006 exists

-A

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

also need to add this that traitor and lawyer are not only scenarios for a scum!ranger to signal to another slot. "There are many other reasons to do so" in mech interactions that aren none for town.

Sure! I literally provided one of my own. (I've signaled opposite scumteam before.)

I'm working from your

given

reasons.

This doesn't feel like traitor actually. Its more like lawyer interaction (as you need drew to win to win kinda deal) and layers stick to their clients so hard so they recognize them and not kill em. But I'm also seeing it in various other ways that are quite unsettling.

You specified, "this doesn't feel like traitor".
You didn't speculate what scum besides traitor it was.
You jumped immediately and exclusively to the 3p role.

I believe a town-Kyoko

would

have explored the other scum reasons.

If there were truly no reasons from town, and if it were truly not a traitor, then the remainder would be scum or 3p. Not exclusively 3p.

I already responded to that post but you heavily ignored those for some reason acting like I ignored your points?

My vote on you was to solve your slot. My initial take was that the signaling is odd and can be traitor like interaction, then it gave me vibe of a lawyer like interaction and as I caught up on your iso that second feeling improved.

Why me following up on this is me going after 3p over scum? How is my first vote of the day and asking you to explain things/calling for pressure to clarify things are me persuing death of 3p?

are you claiming 3p then that you're so concerned with 3p lives? why does it even concern you if a non town 3p is chased and put down. if I believe someone is not town and not cooprating with town, even if there is a chance they are a 3p that can work with town, should I just drop that pursue?

Now The main question here is why are "you" not scum hunting? The ranger I knew would not rest and would be constantly pushing different avenues to get an elimination on people she was evaluating back and fourth. yet in this game you have dragon eater down in your list - apparently started sheeping someone invisible's read on them that I missed on my skim and parked your vote there and is busy signaling drew name and saying stuff like I trust you but you seem like scum in game?

That is weird. How would town you with an skill relating drew would not want drew sorted first?

Am I crazy for getting crazy flood of wrong vibes from all this? if yes can you start explaining whats going on with your slot in this game?

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Also curious to know why you didn't ask rat that either given that 1006 exists

-A

I'm catching up on last few pages. just saw your posts cause it was right here when I opened game

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

That is defeinitly not mason. and it was so obvious that it isn't so I'm really confused how that thought even came to you

How? Ranger only ever punning Drews name + Rat's case on why Ranger probably put Drew in the nightmare + Rangers 782 made it seem like a Mason Nightmare Decider

-A

Maybe its because I caught up on game in almost one go and wasn't here when things slowly happened cause to me this didn't ping me at all mason spew. When i first saw drew puns I was like this in my head is she softing something? is she trying to keep a soft claim there? if so I will not say anything and keep note about this in my head.

But then it just started pinging way too out of place as drew was completely ignorant of it. and if it was a mason soft why not just post one in first post and go on with your life? it felt like ranger was trying to signal and not soft. and I was sure of that part so I went out and asked her about it - that she completely refuted and linked her response to rat about if she is the one who forced drew in nightmare instead - which to me is a signal of her mental note that the two events are one. as the signaling and the force nightmare are related in some way.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I'm not sure what you mean my takes are easy.

Not having provided readslists doesn't mean not providing reads.

You've spent the entire game labeling actions as +(number) scum / +(number) town. That's reads. Reads which match consensus, and have reasons that look good yet provide no value.

which is an elaborated matter to get a read on her and both are far from "easy"

Pushing me is still easy.

There was mounting suspicion on my slot, in part driven by refusal to respond to rolefishing. (More on that when I respond to 911.)

The avenue of attack is also easy. Your attack isn't based on my reads. It's not based on my content. It's based off a perceived breadcrumb, and then not following the logic to its natural conclusion.
If I were a traitor signaling to Doctor Drew, it would mean Doctor Drew was scum, ergo, flip Drew first. If I am not a traitor and am 3p tied to Doctor Drew, then if Doctor Drew is town then I would presumably be harmless; if I am not a traitor and am tied to Doctor Drew, then if Doctor Drew isn't town flip Doctor Drew; if I am town, then pushing me isn't productive to the town; if I am scum signaling about Doctor Drew, then...well you need to figure out why I would be so blatant, what the motive would be, etc.

You didn't follow the logic to its natural conclusion. I posit, because you weren't interested in following the logic to its natural conclusion. You were interested in making a point which appeared logical and gave an avenue of attack, yet left it incomplete in a way I believe is +scum. It looked plausibly town on the surface, yet I don't see a town-you having realized there was no productive outcome from the line of questioning.

You tried so hard to make this about the signaling. How was my vote on you here a scum read vote:

you saying it meant absolutely nothing?

As with Radical Rat, my policy remains. I decline answering.

I'll say I decided to have some fun, and Doctor Drew puns are fun. Do they mean more? Who's to say?

I think I'm not satisfied.

VOTE: Ranger

is there a reason you punned doctor drew name in multiple posts and partially each time?

It seemed apt placement. I don't want to kill the joke with overuse/forced; I still want to use it.

thing is it didn't feel like a joke. It was definitly signaling.

Now I'm reading more of game it seems your slot was involved in other ways with drew as well. so I don't get this interaction at all and I think the way you're hiding something is scummy in ways.

This doesn't feel like traitor actually. Its more like lawyer interaction (as you need drew to win to win kinda deal) and layers stick to their clients so hard so they recognize them and not kill em. But I'm also seeing it in various other ways that are quite unsettling.

I think this is a good slot to pressure for claim.

How did consider this an attack cause I read you as 3p? If anything its clear form the context in vote and posts near that by me that I was interested to know if I should be considered about the interaction or not - which you can call role fishing but is it a scum!role fishing trying to figure out town pr or town trying to understand if an extremely concerning relationship/interaction is harmful for town or not?

why would consider its scum!role fishing based on that context?

My scum read on you is about how you reacted to my vote and dropped me in your read list immediately for it and then tried to make it all about me pushing you initially to clarify that signaling. Its also about what you're saying I'm 3p hunting and not scum hunting is stupid and is more looking like an excuse to get away from pressure and to make a mirror shield when you and me both now, that I'm hunting any slots that is or might be a danger to town as every town should.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

In terms of Kirigiri, I like her entrance, and I strongly disagree that she's just taking "easy" stances. Semi-recently I spent like half a game trying to push a Traitor, after correctly realizing one existed and who it was, but no one would listen to me about it and it was a major contributing factor to us losing. I don't think that's the angle scum tries to take if they're going for easy, non-controversial pushes.

The issue with this; Kyoko herself doesn't think I'm a traitor.

Kyoko wasn't the first to notice the Drew puns.

There was grounds for scum to have mentioned it in the scum PT. Scum are usually watching for breadcrumbs more than town. Scum, looking for breadcrumbs, could've seen the same, or at least usesPython's comments, and believed it had merit. A scum-Kyoko, having access to the scum PT, would have access to her scumbuddies' speculations.

Kyoko Kirigiri's push on me appears like she already knew about the potential breadcrumbs in advance of having started the push.
Given she doesn't think I'm a traitor, yet given she thinks I'm worth pushing (suggesting not town), this is not a push which I can see from town.

I thought I am.

I realized that later myself that I wasnt. You saying I could have seen it from scum!pt is true, I also could have seen it in a neighbor hood pt, a mason pt or in no pt and be truthful that I actually saw it on my own and didn't realize others saw that too. but why would scum me push on something someone else found randomly in such fashion? do you mistake my !scum play as for one from an amateur?

This says nothing regardless of my alignment, it just says something about you though that you signaled so repeatedly and so often/obvious that multiple people realized it. Now you can't claim people questioning it is "role fishing" and scummy. if anything a town!you has a responsibility to ease people mind that the interaction means no harm to town which you clearly refuse to do.