Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Random Nurse]

I'm not convinced on Ranger wagon. Pass.

K

Why?

Why?

Persuade me on why you want a Ranger wagon.

[Ranger]

Reminder; brief pop-in now is all I can do. I'll be around before or on Tuesday; for now, this is all I can give.

Do try to remember where ideas came from though. You'll be surprised the number from me.

[Doctor Drew]

I'm fairly certain players aren't giving credit to me where it's due this game. I've been ahead of the curb at nearly every stage.

I was the one who brought up the mechanical reason for not putting everyone in, and people followed it after I brought it up.
I was the one who brought up Rautherdir was likely a town mislim off the back of players like Radical Rat, and people followed it after I brought it up.
Most of my reads, you've objective evidence I was the first to have, yet after forming them suddenly everyone had them. Examples include my DragonEater70 scumread, Titus read, Flea read, Aureal suspicion, and countless more.
Including the entire reason we have a Meryl wagon in the first place being

I suspected her

.

Everyone's sheeping

my

case (which is off the back of my Rautherdir case, mind), and backing

my

wagon.

You can suspect me all you want.
Don't try to erase my contributions, for what they are.

Why bring up Rauth was likely a mislim?

TownRanger doesn't put this much effort into defending herself.

[Ranger]

{usesPython}
{Radical Rat, Abnegation, KatyKimFanclub, Rautherdir, Doctor Drew}
{Morning Tweet, camelCasedSnivy}
{sheepsaysmeep}
{Save The Dragons}
{DragonEater70}
{Flea The Magician}
{Random Nurse, Titus, Kyoko Kirigiri}
{WhemeStar, Aureal}
{Merlyn}

Temporary reads. I've too few scumreads (WhemeStar, Aureal, Merlyn}, so that means one of two things.
I'm townreading a deepwolf and the scumreads I'm reevaluating are town;
At least some of the scumreads I'm reevaluating are scum, despite my doubts.

Again, this is not a satisfactory readslist. I'll see what I can do to generate a better one after getting caught up.

[Radical Rat]

also just so its clear, im willing to condemn anywhere in [aureal/bianco/rauth/python(though I doubt)/wheme(maybe)/StD]

You townreading Merlyn?

This seems like a good way to address this. Why aren't you townreading me? When I saw that I was the bottom of ranger's reads without her speaking to me once or even commenting on my posts, I thought, okay, let's see what happens, I won't bring it up unless she does. She still hasn't addressed it, and in fact no one who is voting me has made even one case against me.

My main stipulation is Not Ranger, and not Rauth. I'd also still prefer we boot out Drew, but no one else really seems to care so I'm probably not getting my way on that one

i agree on not rauth and i can understand not ranger. would you consider re-voting your old proposal (not sure whose proposal it is now) of the 5 i mentioned + de70 and titus?

Yeah, I can do that. I believe it should be yours unless I missed you switch earlier.

HURT: Abnegation

VOTE: Merlyn

Currently though what's your reason for voting Merlyn. As much as I don't care for her ignoring my question and posts I'm not quite at the point of casting a vote that way. Is it more or less a pressure vote?

I thought the attempt to steer The Drew Incident onto Abnegation was a bit odd, and she seemed weirdly deferential to me during that discussion. I'd tossed it on the deal with it later pile, and now the wagon has momentum and my more preferred wagon doesn't, so later has become now.

[Ranger]

TownRanger doesn't put this much effort into defending herself.

I've no interest in defending myself from scumreads.

I've interest in defending my stances, including my right to claim credit where it's due. I've little interest in ego of "I was right!", yet I've

strong

distaste for erasure of contributions. Regardless of whether those contributions were +town or +scum, they should be remembered in full as what they were, and not removed from the record.

It's factual I've contributed more than I've been given credit for. Suspect me all you like. Don't pretend I wasn't responsible for things I was.

[Radical Rat]

Essentially, it felt like you didn't really have firm stances of your own, and were instead just trying to gauge and reinforce mine.

[Merlyn]

I'm fairly certain players aren't giving credit to me where it's due this game. I've been ahead of the curb at nearly every stage.

I was the one who brought up the mechanical reason for not putting everyone in, and people followed it after I brought it up.
I was the one who brought up Rautherdir was likely a town mislim off the back of players like Radical Rat, and people followed it after I brought it up.
Most of my reads, you've objective evidence I was the first to have, yet after forming them suddenly everyone had them. Examples include my DragonEater70 scumread, Titus read, Flea read, Aureal suspicion, and countless more.
Including the entire reason we have a Meryl wagon in the first place being

I suspected her

.

Everyone's sheeping

my

case (which is off the back of my Rautherdir case, mind), and backing

my

wagon.

You can suspect me all you want.
Don't try to erase my contributions, for what they are.

If you lim me and then when I flip town, what kind of credit do you think you will deserve then?

[Merlyn]

did you ever talk about that merlyn sr? if not, could you?

Sure. Merlyn is THE slot I'm talking about in exploiting Radical Rat. It doesn't display well in iso, yet most of her content is directly reflective of what RR's discussing at the time. Merlyn's given no content I've thought town, looks like scum, and has taken stances which I feel are taking advantage of town accusing town. Merlyn's contributions have been lackluster, and when the town's had its more lighthearted moments, Merlyn's contributions to them has felt forced. Both her hop onto Rauth as well as her hop off Rauth were suspect.

You said merlyn in your third scum read. same about him.

1071, backed by 777.

This is exactly what I mean by not offering a case I can dispute.

no content I've thought town- I can't say anything to that, right? It's an opinion.
looks like scum- same
taken stances which I feel are taking advantage of town accusing town. Okay, name the stances
lackluster contributions- I could talk a lot like you and pretend that I'm generating content, but the truth is that in D1 there isn't much to say until things start moving. The only three things that aren't mech that I've noted are RR's question to you about Drew, Rauth's inability to stop talking mech, and your fight with Kyoko. I've contributed to the first two and plan to wait to look back on the third.
contributions to lighthearted moments were forced- I would take pain at this if I thought you were any judge of comedy

The bottom line for me about you? You could be one of those arrogant players here that just powers through with wrong reads, but the last two times something similar to this has happened to me it came from scum.

[Merlyn]

Essentially, it felt like you didn't really have firm stances of your own, and were instead just trying to gauge and reinforce mine.

If you're talking to me, I don't have any firm stances and I think that people who say they do at this point are full of it. I didn't think and still don't think that it was a bad question for you to ask and it was interesting to me that people jumped so hard about it.

[Merlyn]

What makes ranger more likely scum (if u think that’s the case) from everyone else on ur wagon who isn’t rly explaining? How are u gonna differentiate the scum from the town there who definitely exist

I'd like to hear from them on it before I judge

[DragonEater70]

Okay now I really need to do an ISO of Kyoko because what you are saying is VERY interesting. I'll be back later on today for the ISO (because I assume it will take a while).

Okay, I'm right now on this ISO (I got a bit derailed though), will post my conclusion and catch up from this post when I finish.

[DragonEater70]

Being honest, Doctor Drew is playing as he does when scum.

Were I unwilling to provide benefit of the doubt, he'd nearly top my scumreads.

I actually do believe him though; idk why. Gut I guess.

urghh

like... Ranger should be a lawyer. I don't think this is a traitor potential anymore, and this is just not town

UNVOTE:

if this is true I think this automatically make drew almost conf scum but I actually didn't see him do anything game-wise till this point beside calling ship turn there with a read so I need to do some iso dives when I'm done.

Just a question (still mid ISO): what is a lawyer? I couldn't find any 3rd party or town role called a lawyer, only scum, but they wouldn't have any reason to signal.

[DragonEater70]

(Also I admit to getting derailed again and reading stuff about Hong Kong when I was supposed to be ISOing Kyoko. Bad Dragon.)

[usesPython]

Just a question (still mid ISO): what is a lawyer? I couldn't find any 3rd party or town role called a lawyer, only scum, but they wouldn't have any reason to signal.

there are many different variations/naming of the role but what I have in mind is closer to savior you linked. by lawyer I mean someone who wins if their client wins. (not neccessirly loosing if the target gets voted out). they don't know their client role but they don't care about town win. naturally they will do whatever they can to signal to their target they are with them, and will use their boost skills if they have any to help them.

basically the attidue I see from ranger here.

[DragonEater70]

Oh okay I can see how Kyoko got that read, though for the life of me I can't understand why she would push it?

[DragonEater70]

Okay I tried to make a huge post with a lot of quotes of Kyoko but it looked monstrous so instead I'll just summarize my ISO and go back to having a life outside of this site:

- I initially liked the first few posts where she gives 0.1 and 0.3 townpoints etc. However on a second read, It feels off because it's not her town meta.
- I know it's silly, but I actually have an urge to scumread the fact that she's not roleplaying as a detective, like she did in her previous towngames on this account.
- I do agree with most of her reads, including the fact that initially the pun on Drew's name looked quite forced (I mean it still looks forced, but I don't think Ranger is scum for it). So I guess that's +town
- However, I did not like the fact that she said TWO SEPERATE TIMES that Rauther was scummy (which they were), but didn't vote or investigate him (which is very unlike her).
- I also like the fact that she went into a big 1v1 with Ranger and was really consistent with her reasoning.
- However I do not like the fact that I'm actually having a headache trying to understand what the hell she and Ranger are talking about half the time. It feels like they are both twisting each other's words. And they are posting huge wallposts and the entire point of each wallpost that either is posting is saying "oh but I already explained why I disagree with your wallpost" so I have to look earlier to see what they refer to and I can't find it in all the wallposts and it's honestly destroying my brain to bits.
So for now I agree with these two posts:

Can we just IC Ranger/Kyoko I'm feeling my will to play mafia drain with every wall that gets posted

-A

I'm checking out from this wall war

VOTE: Merlyn

Do something interesting

-A

I think we will have plenty of content from both Kyoko and Ranger later on to form reads off of.
However for the time being, Ranger is townie and Kyoko is slightly scummy for meta reasons, even though her posts are fucking amazing and honestly her reads are spot on.

[DragonEater70]

I'm going to be extremely busy now so hopefully I'll pop in this evening or sometime tomorrow to check out why people are (or were?) voting Merlyn, and catch up on the recent pages.

[DragonEater70]

Actually nvm.

@mod, please give me V/LA for until Thursday evening.

Bolded for visibility.
- θ

[DragonEater70]

(I will still try to pop in but it's definitely not something I can promise)

[usesPython]

How about if everyone makes a list sorting who they do/don't/maybe support to help figure out who's consensus/viable?

In no particular order

Want:

• Ranger
  
• Radical Rat
  
• usesPython
  
• Abnegation

Ok with:

• DragonEater70?
  
• KatyKimFanClub?
  
• Doctor Drew
  
• Save the Dragons
  
• sheepsaysmeep

Can compromise on if a TR's willing to bat for them:

• DragonEater70?
  
• KatyKimFanClub?
  
• Rautherdir?
  
• camelCasedSnivy
  
• Aureal?

Don't want:

• Rautherdir?
  
• Kyoko Kirigiri
  
• Merlyn?
  
• Aureal?

Completely forgettable:

• Random Nurse
  
• Morning Tweet
  
• Titus
  
• Flea The Magician
  
• WhemeStar

[Titus]

nvm the nvm this feels pretty performative

Cool, I love being performative.

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

Oh, actually. We need to vote for at least four (because five is the minimum and Drew is already in) but I don't see why we can't do another proposal afterwards to add more people to get to seven. Since we seem to be struggling to get a consensus after the first few consensus townreads, it might be easier to work with that way- get more consensus people confirmed then scrap over the last couple.

I would rather have a 7-8 person proposal get passed through plurality rules just in case scum have a hammerer. Can we just pretend we passed a 5 person proposal without actually doing it?

Hmmm, not a bad point. Having pretend proposals sounds like all sorts of fun chaos. XD

How about if everyone makes a list sorting who they do/don't/maybe support to help figure out who's consensus/viable?

Yes: Radical Rat, Save the Dragons, usesPython, Abnegation, Titus, Kyoko Kirigiri, Aureal
Maybe: Dragoneater70, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep, Random Nurse, KatyKimFanclub, Flea the Magician, camelCasedSnivy
No: Ranger, Rautherdir, WhemeStar, Merlyn

Refusing. This is a roadmap for scum kills.

[Titus]

curious why people townread Titus

I don't think Merlyn is scum, but this feels like partner protection.

[Flea The Magician]

Ranger as usual youre screaming town and using a lot of reinforcive statements.

Who isnt town in your PoV?

What os a reinforcive statement?

Any time "town" is said, its amended with stuff like "which I am" - its brute forcing that narrative into peoples minds which is an interesting approach from her.

Interesting in what way exactly? I think I'm on the same page as you here, but it sounds like you have more experience with her than I do.

From memory, and it has been a while, Ranger is very much "Just use the sledgehammer." in her approaches. Subtlety isnt often on the menu, and this falls under both.

Its a repeated, short, clear, statement that is scattered through her posts, its forcefully.planting that idea that shes town but also done in a way you desensitise to seeing the statement.

[Flea The Magician]

Damn it, now I'm nervous, but I feel bad punishing effort if he is Town.

You've played me.
Effort is not AI.