Mini Normal 2305 | GAME OVER

[Morning Tweet]

What strange things have Daisy and I been up to? Lol

[Morning Tweet]

I'm pretty sure curious is town

I'm not sure Greeting necessarily did smething scummy cause it's mostly curous/Greeting clashing over stuff. i think Greeting iniitially scumreading curious was eyebrow-raising and it makes sense he got pushed for that

his response to me 1392 and curious (1435 and etc) sort of makes sense though, i dont agree with curious' reasoning. greeting updating daisy and furtive on his reads feels kin da genuine.

i dont think its scummy Greeting didn't use this reasoning in a different game. I do think him pushing curious is slihgtly scummy and likely wrong but bot hof them might dig their heels in now so idk im just worried Greeting is town

Spoiler: emperor context

I gotta catch up from when I was last here

Don’t do anything rash

Gimme some time I’m at work and my attention be divided

But why does Greeting lie? It does not believe that is scummy.

Monkey is selling his Roden lies already, my answer is the same here: External meta rarely factors into my analysis. playing the devil' advocate, having said something similar to greeting, he might just believe you are scum. I absolutely hate his vote just to be clear.

they’re trying to frame monkey with this one right here I guess

if you think monkey is being framed, do you think we should be looking on or off the roden wagon today for scum?

^^this is an open question for everyone, i rememeber hem mentioning that he believes scum was distancing themselves from the wagon, but typically i'm used to investigating the wagon itself.

Mmm Maybe on. Do you remember the reasoning Roden had for voting element? Last I saw he was saying I was his top pick.
Before that Roden seemed fine to me then he started switching his vote super often and said I was his top but wasn’t voting, not giving me reason why I was his top, and just not answering my questions at all.It seemed like he was just trying to survive

i will say tho, the counterwagon being karma makes me think scum could just be anywhere

Do you have any semblence of a take other than "Scum could be anywhere"?

what was the point of the dont do anything rash lol

[Morning Tweet]

Elements for meta impressions.

You have meta impressions on me? From what?

I was about to ask a question in a similar vein

Elements for meta impressions.

You have meta impressions on me? From what?

I took the time to go over viewtopic.php?sid=&f=2&t=91038&user_select%5B%5D=32224 among other examples.

Your posting seemed more similar imo to town!Elements than scum!Elements.

I also have a guess as to why you were icy on D1 after the active start, but this one I can't comment for now.

I see

For what its worth Ele doesnt really seem like they re trying to do anything terribly devious and is a lot less egriously suspicious than that game, at least

What are the odds scum!Ele begins a death tunnel on Takutai and then scum decides tak is the kill

Probably decently above zero actually but i still townread it

maybe its easier for ele to be towny when they havent been placed under significant ppressure but i think they come across as more effortlessly towny today so far

I also like this posting from clidd

Or it's an inexperience thing..

Im not buying it . forum games or not, theory is theory. you KNOW how mafia games work. I dont know you well, but you are logical and can think through motivation. I dont think TownOD seriously thought..

VOTE: Greeting I'm still interested in this slot.

What motivation exists in order for Greeting to kill Takutai?

I get it, you want to put out there that you thought Tak had greeting on a town lock. But at the end, he did not. So I feel like TownOD, would have looked over Tak a bit before putting this out there for people to consume.

platinum posting

I don't think I've ever seen a kill chosen motivated by framing someone

i think its pretty rare. 9/10 mafia kills the best target over mindgame target. Then again, you know me and kills

[curiouskarmadog]

SO Tweet,

do you agree that posting "walls of text" is scummy?

lets say Greeting "believes" that this type of posting is scummy. I then show Greetings a game (that we were in together) where I did the say thing. But he still wants to push that it is scummy....based on nothing.

he also put forward that my stances were contentless and mostly null, do you also believe that? Do you see HOW Greeting could believe that compared to...most everyone else here?

he has put forth two "reasons" I am scum, both are really bad.

I am saying there is NO WAY Greeting believes these things.

[Morning Tweet]

I think curious is town

Pretty much thinking Daisy is town

furtive, clidd, Elements, all thinking town but not really sure qabout it. Same with Greeting basically. I'm more suspicious of Greeting than anyone elsebut I'm pretty sure its because im not as familiar with him.

Emperor and gera has to have one scum at least and we're auto playing the game for them is my opinion

Klick is sus

I residually still think HEM is town regardless of Roden being town cause that was kinda my position but HEM has posted less so far today and also i dont have too much of an opinion on his follow up thoughts to Roden!town (whether because a touch of deflatedness or maybe resting after his towny D1 performance). Although i agree scum liked status quo and probably really enjoyed your D1. so you're right but im not giving towny points because scum HEM probably knows how to play this off

[Morning Tweet]

SO Tweet,

do you agree that posting "walls of text" is scummy?

lets say Greeting "believes" that this type of posting is scummy. I then show Greetings a game (that we were in together) where I did the say thing. But he still wants to push that it is scummy....based on nothing.

he also put forward that my stances were contentless and mostly null, do you also believe that? Do you see HOW Greeting could believe that compared to...most everyone else here?

he has put forth two "reasons" I am scum, both are really bad.

I am saying there is NO WAY Greeting believes these things.

1. No

2. Is that what it is though

Greeting does something about the way curiousdog responds to your vote ping you, or is it just the large volume of content but without towniness?

You're mentioning the way curious reads you seems fake, is that a significant part of your read?

Perhaps I did not phrase that very well.
The core of my read was: large amount of useless, from the perspective of game-solving, content (aka walls of text) and contentless reads. Like I said before, in 1189 he had numerous reads which essentially amounted to null. Some people seem to have a problem with me leaving out the rest of the reads (even though I had mentioned them in 1216), so let's get to that now by picking some of the ones that have content:

Fur, also top scum pick. HEM nailed it, no soul in this game. Votes a lame, stances are phoned in. I want to see him push a case. coasting. says he doesnt like a thing, then does that thing. hiding in plan sight scum.

I have been pushing

furtiveglance

for like half of Day 1 and he seemed both apathetic and slightly annoyed. Now he's pushing me. It's NAI at worst and towny at best. At least that's my opinion.

clidd, also part of the "to be honest" club (man I will be horrible to live with if both you AND OD are scum together). I am leaning scum/null here. Hasnt done much. Hasnt made waves. also coasting. Also have trouble understanding they "why" behind his reads.

I have been very consistently townreading

clidd

, and I feel like his reads are well-explained and generally coming from a town point of view.

I do agree with the

humaneatingmonkey

read, but that's about all that me and

curiouskarmadog

have in common. Other than that it's just pure opposites and the reason for this, I think, is because the reads are fake.

Now, let's take his reaction to my vote. He countered it with wagoning me almost instantly. The core of his argument being that I did not have a problem with his walls of text in a past game. Thing is, I did, and the high volume of content in that game was exactly the reason why I had replaced out of that game. I don't really feel like this game has the same amount of high-volume content as the other and anyone can do a recap on their own.

Finally, I have a problem with the hypocritical argument that the reasons for me pushing

ckd

are related to his playstyle (doing recaps in the main thread), whereas part of the reason why I am being pushed are my irregular patterns of activity, which are well, related to my playstyle. That's bullshit in plain sight and I'm honestly surprised that no one had caught that before.

All of this summed up does not look well for

curiouskarmadog

and I am willing to keep voting that slot.

It's more like, large amount of content that he reads as nullish and not having takes

3. Yeah exactly. I don't agree, no. It doesn't mean Greeting is scum. It's very trickyt for me to say "There's no way Greeting believes these things"

[OopsieDaisy]

I also like this posting from clidd

Or it's an inexperience thing..

Im not buying it . forum games or not, theory is theory. you KNOW how mafia games work. I dont know you well, but you are logical and can think through motivation. I dont think TownOD seriously thought..

VOTE: Greeting I'm still interested in this slot.

What motivation exists in order for Greeting to kill Takutai?

I get it, you want to put out there that you thought Tak had greeting on a town lock. But at the end, he did not. So I feel like TownOD, would have looked over Tak a bit before putting this out there for people to consume.

platinum posting

um actually that's a karma post

[OopsieDaisy]

Emperor and gera has to have one scum at least and we're auto playing the game for them is my opinion

Klick is sus

Yea where is Klick? I liked them early Day 1 but the lack of activity is starting to raise eyebrows.

Also can I get some elaboration on why you townread Furtive?

[OopsieDaisy]

I do agree that at some point we are gonna need to sort the inactive slots out, it's just that right now there's not much to read off of them whatsoever so it's hard to even *have* a Gera/Emperor/Klick read ykno.

I do wanna look into these slots tho, I'll give em a look when I've got the free time to.

[Emperor flippyNips]

what was the point of the dont do anything rash lol

Cos I thought I saw someone get runnup and I’m trying to get caught up before the day ends. I’m on page 54 and can’t just sit with my phone in my hand right now

[Emperor flippyNips]

Tbf i am trying to give content and do feel like, when I have been here i have been providing with what I have

[curiouskarmadog]

Hey HEM....why so quiet today?

[geraintm]

i would normally look at the reasons people gave for their votes, but there wont be anything from the roden wagon

So you have no suspicion at all?

What are your stances on Daisy?
What are your stances on Greeting?

and for giggles.

where do you stand on HEM?

Not really. Like....no one has stood out to me as having done anything overly bad. Just the normal stuff, no one has had to raise their heads over the parapets.

I've read the last two pages and there is nothing anyone has argued that is anywhere near convincing.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Conversation's plenty. It doesn't need me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also want to know how this game will go with minimal involvement

[Elements]

@furtive if you're so set on clidd, who are the other scum?

[furtiveglance]

@furtive if you're so set on clidd, who are the other scum?

Greeting, Geraint, maybe Emperor

I'm not sure

[furtiveglance]

What's the point in asking that?

[Elements]

Because I have no idea where your head is at this game

[Greeting]

Prod dodge, will address the new posts tomorrow.

@

hem

answer my question first, then I’ll answer yours.

[OopsieDaisy]

Ok, three inactive slots, let's see what's happening with em. Gonna do one post for each and I'm writing em as I go so if there's big gaps between em that's why.

Gera

Now Gera's inactivity is, as far as I know, an intentional playstyle decision by Gera. He's vocally not a fan of Day 1's, and believes he's a much stronger player once there's lots of hard information in the game for himself to work with. Gera has made a big point today of stating that he has nothing to bring to the table as no hard information from the wagons and the like has come up (1376, 1397).

This tracks for the most part, however I'm interested in seeing if he has any follow-up to some of his reads from yesterday:

First of all, you stated yesterday that I was a no-go for eliminations because I talk so much, and that I would give myself away as scum if I was allowed to stay in the game and continue talking (315). With me now having spoken wayy more than where the game was at in 315, has your read on me changed or solidified in any way?

Another thing I want a follow-up on is the post below.

VOTE: Curiouskarmadog

I have no idea the point of this post, it is going completely against the flow of the game, need to investigate it later I think....

We're now at a later point in the game with the flip from the counterwagon Roden revealed, do you have anything to say about this with that added information or are you still waiting for that later point? Keep in mind Furtive is currently one of the two big wagons so that later point might not arrive before he is flipped.

Overall I feel that Gera is a slot that I am fine with for now. I leant town on his slot yesterday due to how a lot of people in the game were trying to sauce Gera up for a push based on reasonings that just end up amounting to them not liking his personal meta of playing a passive early game. However, being passive I think is what mafia would've wanted to do yesterday if town were locked into voting two competing wagons that both seem town after the fact, so all a scum!gera would have to do to assure this is softly guide town into that 1v1, which he did do (968, 983). I've now got Gera at the top of null after a re-read of his posts.

[OopsieDaisy]

Klick

My gut read right now is that this slot is getting replaced. It's been a week since Klick last posted in this thread (albeit with a 48 hour night phase in the middle), so my guess is moreso that his absence is related to some external factor that's affecting his ability to be here and play the game rather than it being something alignment indicative. Nevertheless, analysing Klick's spot is important so that we know where we sit on it, and with the added info of a couple flips, it should give us a more informed read on the slot.

The timeline with Klick goes something like this:
- Expresses townread on Elements due to active enthusiastic posting (128 146)
- Builds a scumread on me based on overexplainy posts that feel performative (162 167)
- Defends Gera's meta (178)
- Lightly expresses confusion on CKD suspicion amongst town (479)
- Pressures Tweet (617 623 626)
- Walks back scumread on me (628)
- Posts a readlist citing Roden and Tweet as two biggest scumreads (639)
- Heavily defends CKD (724 726)
- Votes and pushes Roden (732 733)
- Expresses a townread on Furtive (775)
And boom, we arrive at his final readlist. His reads don't change from here.

Atm my reads are here

{curiouskarmadog, Elements}
{furtiveglance, clidd, OopsieDaisy}
{humaneatingmonkey, Takutai}

{Geraintm, Greeting, Emperor flippyNips}
{Roden, Morning Tweet}

Now that's all just flat out infoposting, in terms of interpreting this it doesn't make me hugely confident in Klick's spot, and I'm now seeing Furtive/Klick/HEM as a very possible scumteam. Klick's townread of Furtive sorta comes out of nowhere with no real justification bar thinking he was town based on the pages before his posts, and that feels less organic to me than Klick's reads on CKD or me. His HEM read was more reserved, however because Klick hasn't been here to react to the flips, I'm unsure how much I can read into this.

Obvs I can see that my paranoia around Furtive's slot is bleeding into this read, so do take it with a grain of salt, but despite the fact that I like how his reads on CKD & I developed, his reads on my big suspects don't look good on a second read. I'll give Klick low null, but his place on my readlist very much depends on if there is scum in Furtive/HEM. I'd ask for follow-ups but because he's been afk I wanna see if he's actually here rather than burning time asking questions that aren't gonna get answers.

[OopsieDaisy]

And finally..

Emperor

Emperor is a slot I selfishly like, but I can understand why others don't. He's not been a proactive player whatsoever in this game, but this tracks from his town game I saw in 2302, so that isn't a huge argument against this slot the same way that argument doesn't rly work against Gera. What I will give Emperor tho is that he has been very receptive to the questions I've been asking him, even if my questions are sometime nonsense. I think the key to getting info out of Emperor is to just ask him how he feels about particular players or elements of the game and go from there.

So let's look at what info we've managed to get from the slot.


357 is Emperor's first info post in this game, where he expresses that he wants Gera, Karma & I to survive through Day 1. This is because of a townread on Gera & I, and wanting to see Karma's 2302 headhunting back in action. I buy these, they're all based on previous knowledge I have and fit very well with how I viewed the game at that point.


739 adds Klick and HEM to the "keep these people around pool", Klick just for town vibes and HEM because of seeming to be proactive without a negative agenda. I also understand these reads, however I know plenty of players who would look at how many times the word "vibes" was used in this post and combust lmao.


745 sees Emperor defending Gera again. I am seeing a Gera/Emperor pairing as a possibility now. Gonna keep that in the back of my mind.


1109 is Emperor hard doubling down on the Roden push and initially this was something I loved, but I'm seeing in the ISO that Emperor never actually voted Roden. In fact, Emperor hasn't voted anyone

this entire game

. Using 2302 as a reference point, Emperor made 3 votes over 2 in-game days, one of which being in RVS, so this isn't 100% out of character, but it's ringing alarm bells. If we are looking at scum who are happy with the status quo, playing passively, not rocking the boat, this makes Emperor a very big fit for that kind of team.


1316 shows us that Emperor doesn't understand why Takutai was the night kill, and 1320 theorises it maybe has something to do with framing HEM.

After rereading Emperor's ISO I'm seeing that whilst I do like his attitude and love it when people answer my questions, his actions themselves don't read superr well to me, and I have to admit that he's still at null.

In terms of a follow-up I want:

Emperor, you mentioned wanting Klick/HEM/Gera/Karma/myself to survive Day 1, and we all did. Has your read on any of these slots changed and why?

[OopsieDaisy]

After reading all three I'm thinking Gera > Emperor > Klick, but they're all passive in this game and haven't chosen to oppose much of the flow during the game, so we should keep an eye here if the flow continues to stink.

[Elements]

I agree with that ordering