Mini Normal 2304: Conway's Game Of Life [GAME OVER!]

[bob3141]

So there is no good reason for it to exist?
This is even more ground for HEM to claim their result.

Its also the sort of fake claim ive made as scum before.

[humaneatingmonkey]

wow great argument There are 10 players alive in this games that would all say the same thing and 2 of them are not going to be telling the truth.

yes but people can be confbiased into thinking they caught scum when they're absolutely wrong.

in this case, you're absolutely wrong

[humaneatingmonkey]

i want an extra day because if we flip n_m and he flips mafia, I'm spewed town. i can also do norwee's test and confirm my role.

hey, I'm goners anyway if I'm scum. and you're all gonna need to flip n_m anyway.

[humaneatingmonkey]

He still only wants to flip the same slots he scum read on Day 1.

this isn't true

[bob3141]

i want an extra day because if we flip n_m and he flips mafia, I'm spewed town. i can also do norwee's test and confirm my role.

hey, I'm goners anyway if I'm scum. and you're all gonna need to flip n_m anyway.

Nope, 10 out of 10 times scum busses N_M if he is mafia. So N_M alignment is irrelevant to your role.

And nope to the second. Ive run that gambit before and it won me the scum game. In that one I claimed vannilla cop but I was just guessing all my results. I was saying give me a day and i actualy got one and then another.


The scummy thing is that your claiming to think flipping N_M today is a good idea. He dies before elo but with this gamestate never on day 2

[Invisibility]

Spoiler: Massive quote wall involving HEM

The vibes in this thread are gnarly in a bad way!!

I will catch up tonight or tomorrow (it shouldn’t take long!) but as a sneak peek I see Espeonage as mafia still, and they are coming across poorly in their interaction with HEM!

I’m unsure if it is personality or not at this point, if I am honest but Espe keeps choosing to take the worst faith interpretations and assumptions!

I take umbrage with this because I feel like I am giving back what I am getting from the thread. I think why I am so frustrated by this game right now is that there is so much rhetoric for the sake of posting, and it is so stagnating.

So I don't think I am taking worst faith, I am taking logical subtext. Like contrast the iso of someone like sheep vs someone like monkey and tell me with a straight face that you think monkey isnt being obtuse on purpose.

If you're town, you might be tunneled. Imagine I'm town and re-read the game.

I understand you scumread me. But just imagine the two worlds beside each other co-existing. Like Schrodinger's humaneatingmonkey. If you're town, that's what you're supposed to be doing anyway.

We're the top two posters by far, we can chill for a bit as well.

Agree. I've been doing this. You have no idea how chill I am by the standard of how pushy I really am.

Like the chance that one or more scum are literally unreadable because of how fresh the game is and the number of disengaged slots is so high that not going after you monkey is the bit that wouldn't doing my job as town.

The first part of your sentence is why you should be reconsidering if you have the right perspective. You've been going after me. You scumread me. Fine. Go after the other slots as well because they're disengaged and unreadable.

I.. I. What?!?

Would you mind if we speak in a more civil manner from now on? I feel like the frustration isn't even warranted when I'm extending a lot of goodwill toward you. If I am not clear in my speech, ask for a clarification.

Would you mind if we speak in a more civil manner from now on? I feel like the frustration isn't even warranted when I'm extending a lot of goodwill toward you. If I am not clear in my speech, ask for a clarification.

This is textbook narcissistic gaslighting, and I really hope you are scum and this is not a personal trait.

@Mod: Please replace me, all goodwill is gone.

Okay then, sir. Post-game, please enlighten me on how that's "textbook narcissistic gaslighting". Maybe if you really feel that I harmed you in anyway, you should report me to the mods. I mean it.

I maintain that I do not believe that I ever escalated my language to verbal abuse or anything that might be described as "going at someone's throat". Suspicion, interrogation, and pressure are a natural part of this game. I'm willing for an outside arbiter to judge the situation accordingly and make their sanctions, but otherwise, I suggest we move on from this.

I'm on like page 15 but I think Espeonage is town from this recent interactions like

If you're town, you might be tunneled. Imagine I'm town and re-read the game.

Like the chance that one or more scum are literally unreadable because of how fresh the game is and the number of disengaged slots is so high that not going after you monkey is the bit that wouldn't doing my job as town.

The first part of your sentence is why you should be reconsidering if you have the right perspective. You've been going after me. You scumread me. Fine. Go after the other slots as well because they're disengaged and unreadable.

this feels like weird undermining stuff? HEM is saying things in a way that seems like they're suggestions when they're really just hollow refutations

Would you mind if we speak in a more civil manner from now on? I feel like the frustration isn't even warranted when I'm extending a lot of goodwill toward you. If I am not clear in my speech, ask for a clarification.

I do not see the goodwill and this feels very manipulative. Like, using the fact that Espeon is upset in a situation that I quite understand why he would be frustrated in and trying to use it to paint him as being unreasonable. Also Espeon is being described as "uncivil" when I think it's more like "peeved" which makes 375 scummy cuz HEM is painting themself as the rational party while Espeon is being coocoo for cocoa puffs.

I thought Espe's read that HEM was trying to control the game was weird, but it feels like he was being toyed with(? idk if that's the right term) here and it's very scummy

I don't appreciate your defensiveness. Your recent posts come off as frustrated, short, and lashing out.

You weren't like this earlier.

Question is whether or not this behavior is a Scumtell of yours or not.

Anyone else here have experience playing with Scum!Espeonage?

in the same vein it makes these posts kinda scummy too

Also Espeon is being described as "uncivil" when I think it's more like "peeved" which makes 375 scummy cuz HEM is painting themself as the rational party while Espeon is being coocoo for cocoa puffs

It's frustrating being treated like that when you're trying to have a sincere conversation and you get things like "What?!?"

I never described anyone as "uncivil" and "coocoo". Stop this.

That's cool buddy. Just don't put words in my mouth that makes me sound like an abusive jerk. That's beyond this game.

I see nothing in that exchange that suggests an attempt at a sincere conversation. You're mostly just being "hoohoo but what if I am a townie??" (which isn't all the groundbreaking) and trying to compare your mannerly ways with Espeon's frustration

pedit: ok soz the Vizzy pizazz is an unstoppable razzmatazz but my intent wasn't to make you sound like a jerk. I don't think I'm wrong about the way you're trying to present yourself in comparison to Espeon though. You did ask Espeon to speak in a more civil manner though and I don't think Espeon was really being that unreasonable. I smell optics shenanigans

Okay nice dude, your portrayal is definitely fair and not a total misrepresentation of me. I know because your quotes include "hoohoo" in them, which usually found when you're portraying someone fairly.

my intent wasn't to make you sound like a jerk

we're cool. don't do it again. i know what you're doing, but sometimes lines can be crossed.

I'm not "comparing" my "mannerly ways" with Espeon's frustration. I was asking Espeon to speak with less attitude. If Espeon is frustrated, then so am I.

I feel like the frustration isn't even warranted when I'm extending a lot of goodwill toward you.

you're painting Espeon as irrational in comparison to your goodwill. But there wasn't much to respond to, and I don't see your goodwill.

i get it. you need to undermine me. have at it.

tally ho!
how do you think my word choice here reflects on my alignment?

i think one of you is about to be eliminated, and you're in a bad spot so you're extra desperate to regain control of the narrative - which starts by undermining me. so desperate that you're willing to paint me as a huge jerk because... what other alternatives do you have?

I'm confident that this is scum!HEM. HEM was feigning civility to tilt Espeon, who was very clearly not in a good mood and was an easy target. Invisibility caught onto it and called it out, which HEM responded to by making an emotional outburst and trying to reframe the situation as Espeon and Invisibilty making personal attacks against him and his character. This is blatant sea lioning, and HEM

loves

doing that as scum.

Spoiler: HEM/Nurse interactions

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

projection. this guy is the real wolf among sheep.

But how would you know? :?

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

hi hello

why

do we have a wagon forming this early

Do you think page 1 *wagons* are serious?

What I do wonder is why you appear concerned for humaneatingmonkey.

the man-eater is fine. it is odd to see a wagon form on page one though, and particularly odd that you took that so personally so quickly. why is your immediate response an attempt to discredit me and then deflect my point by misinterpreting it?

Guess I'm trying to parse through what you mean by he's "fine."

Doesn't sound like you've been playing that long if you think three same votes on page 1 is odd, tbf.

What does kind of ping my radar is you saying it was taken personally—could you share where, because this does sound like you're adding something that isn't there.

Again, it seems like you're adding things by saying I'm attempting to discredit you. Three same votes on page 1 does not a wagon make, and they are rarely if ever serious.

And what I said to you, Sir, is that it appears to me that you are concerned over HEM's safety. That's just how it seems to me so if you react defensively I can't help that.

Monkey's eagerness to control the game feels scum-motivated. And this is only exacerbated by the fact that they have really gone hard on the proverbial low hanging fruit.

The lining up of lynches is also always something I am watchful of. In both cases, if owl is town, monkey is just being negligent if town, and if owl is scum it's a very aggressive theater strat. The common thread being that monkey lining up lynches is poo poo.

vote: humaneatingmonkey

IIRC HEM had 3 votes at this time.

Could it be reaching for low-hanging fruit adding a fourth vote at this time?

HEM, how do you read Invisibility currently?

The obvious agenda to undermine me was enough to call them scum. There was no inch of fair assessment of my alignment - he immediately went after me to discredit me.

He doesnt even bother doing anything else. It's a 13-p he just replaced into. Where are his other reads?

Hm..

VOTE: Invisibility

These posts on a surface level feel like scum trying to lead on a townie with bad reads. But I think these are actually planned distancing interactions, since if they're both scum and one of them flips, it makes the other look good and a third person (Owl and Espeon) look worse. Furthermore, in 220 HEM already injected the idea that scum were setting him up to push townie wagons before anyone even flipped or was close to flipping, yet instead of doing anything to reassess he just...kept pushing those slots. Like as if he only wanted to mention that to help set up a narrative.

VOTE: HEM

thank you for reminding me that I'm always right forever. I think the sealioning got to me cuz I kinda got cold feet when only one other person had anything to say abt what I was posting about (I think) which made me decide to wait and see how HEM is today (their posting today has not impressed me anyway). Will probably vote there eventually. The vote is on in spirit.

I kinda don't care if the role is real or not cuz if it is real it's a silly role that's added and doesn't do much and considering that it could probably go on scum or town. I don't see the point in limming N_M today. I think the stated reasons are that we can determine HEM's role (which I don't think really matters) and that what N_M flips will tell us HEM's alignment (but I agree with Bob in that it really doesn't). I guess the biggest point to the latter is that scum!HEM would have to survive subsequent days and explain why they weren't NK'd but I mean they could say stuff about how their role isn't that useful and how people doubt the spew and whatever so idk still not that compelling

[Invisibility]

wow great argument There are 10 players alive in this games that would all say the same thing and 2 of them are not going to be telling the truth.

yes but people can be confbiased into thinking they caught scum when they're absolutely wrong.

in this case, you're absolutely wrong

this conversation is silly

[Roden]

He still only wants to flip the same slots he scum read on Day 1.

this isn't true

???

i really think this game is solved. everyone else is townie except Roden's slot probably and Norwee. i don't want post mortem reads but I think last scum is in {n_m, Roden, Norwee}.

thing is, you really can't rule out half of scenarios in this game without flipping n_m. it's the hardest thing to do yet it's supposed to be easy.

this game is probably Quiet Owl, T3, and Doctor Drew/Invisibility - gun to head

Town!T3 just votes and sees what happens, imo

If quiet owl flips scum then we're in a reality where the scum team is absolutely shit at controlling the narrative.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

We should do this. Why haven't we done this?

[Roden]

i want an extra day because if we flip n_m and he flips mafia, I'm spewed town. i can also do norwee's test and confirm my role.

hey, I'm goners anyway if I'm scum. and you're all gonna need to flip n_m anyway.

You still haven't claimed your N1 results. Also you told everyone to kill you today if you were wrong yesterday, so what changed?

alterantively, if Quiet Owl flips town then the gamestate is scum sheeping or hiding behind my dumbass to carry a goat to endgame for them to slaughter. immediately eliminate or investigate me night 1 or day 2 to confirm this and avoid this situation.

Or does this not count since you were wrong about Espeon instead? If so, what's the difference here?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm waiting for everyboy's input before giving my results.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Or does this not count since you were wrong about Espeon instead? If so, what's the difference here?

it can still be true

come on guys. give me n_m, the chance to confirm my role, and then you can have my head.

[humaneatingmonkey]

there's a rush to fulfill my elimination.

i would like to remind everyone that my role is pro-town and confirmable

do not pee your pants in the excitement that you have caught scum. I'm still town. and i will flip town. the narrative against me is completely warped to have a one-sided interpretation where I'm only scum and there's not world where i am town. that's a case made by scum who just wishes to eliminate me and not sort my slot.

so if you're town. chill and really assess if the things i claim, the actions i make, are really gonna come from scum exclusively. and if it even make sense for scum!me to be saying it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you’re anything like me you’re gonna stake your life on N_M flipping scum, they flip town and you’re also town so you don’t even get the satisfaction of surviving as scum.

(This has happened so many times to me)

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think the arguments to vote HEM are compelling but there’s still that doubt gnawing on my mind dunno.

HEM how would you describe your own scumplay? And why wait with posting result? Seems a bit fishy how ur stalling.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's just a couple of slots that i suss asking me to share my results now. I'll be more open to people i actually townread

[humaneatingmonkey]

my own scumplay? i am very good. I'm charismatic, reasonable, and fun. it's hard to eliminate me, and it's hard to catch me make unsound/unoptimal plays.

but i am also very bad. i have obvious tells like incongruence in emotions because i can overact, slipping because I'm informed, and my tunnels are different - they're meant to perform rather than sort.

[Not_Mafia]

I should not be eliminated because I am town

[humaneatingmonkey]

you are a cow

[Invisibility]

you should say your N1 result

[Roden]

HEM's posts and responses aren't doing anything for me, it's all just fear mongering and AtE. And now he's just making excuses so he doesn't have to give his results.

[Roden]

I think the arguments to vote HEM are compelling but there’s still that doubt gnawing on my mind dunno.

HEM how would you describe your own scumplay? And why wait with posting result? Seems a bit fishy how ur stalling.

Pretty sure he's stalling so that there's time for people to get cold feet and just settle for voting NM.

[Roden]

there's a rush to fulfill my elimination.

i would like to remind everyone that my role is pro-town and confirmable

do not pee your pants in the excitement that you have caught scum. I'm still town. and i will flip town. the narrative against me is completely warped to have a one-sided interpretation where I'm only scum and there's not world where i am town. that's a case made by scum who just wishes to eliminate me and not sort my slot.

so if you're town. chill and really assess if the things i claim, the actions i make, are really gonna come from scum exclusively. and if it even make sense for scum!me to be saying it.

This is cool and all, but you're not doing anything. You're not scum hunting, and even more egregiously you aren't analyzing Day 1's wagons even though you believe scum hyped you up into voting townies.

[Roden]

there's a rush to fulfill my elimination.

i would like to remind everyone that my role is pro-town and confirmable

do not pee your pants in the excitement that you have caught scum. I'm still town. and i will flip town. the narrative against me is completely warped to have a one-sided interpretation where I'm only scum and there's not world where i am town. that's a case made by scum who just wishes to eliminate me and not sort my slot.

so if you're town. chill and really assess if the things i claim, the actions i make, are really gonna come from scum exclusively. and if it even make sense for scum!me to be saying it.

This is cool and all, but you're not doing anything. You're not scum hunting, and even more egregiously you aren't analyzing Day 1's wagons even though you believe scum hyped you up into voting townies.

Also, there is no "rush". This set up is using plurality for elims, so even if you don't have 50% of the votes by Day end, you'll still be voted out as long as you hold the majority. Which you currently do.

[humaneatingmonkey]

even more egregiously you aren't analyzing Day 1's wagons even though you believe scum hyped you up into voting townies.

my iso is very clear on what i think about day 1 and what i want to do in this game, thank you very much

[Save The Dragons]

i don't really get the role, i'm not sure what the point of it is.