Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Radical Rat]

VCs momentarily. Deadline is unpaused at 3d10 hours from this post, as I am referring to an old conversation with T-Bone involving a similar incident with an extended deadline pause due to replacements. I am also deferring to this conversation for how to handle any actions. Any questions regarding this can be answered post-game. Please know I am attempting to resolve this as best I can while preserving the game-state as it stands.

Cosmos Mafia Flashbacks

[Cat Scratch Fever]

For real

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm not sure if I understand your question tbh but I'll try to answer

In general, I don't think town has to pivot their read. Tunneling can come from either alignment. I've seen town tunnel because they were pursuing a genuine read, and I've seen scum shit-tunnel because it allows them to pretend to do something and everyone goes "wow much conviction so town!"

The one sentence scumcase summary is that I don't get the sense that Snivy believes in his reads, and some reads feel fabricated. The lack of a 'pivot' doesn't really factor into it.

But to actually answer your question - one reason to pivot would be that he's scumreading rauth using the same reasoning that python did (1142)

Okay... I think I see what you're trying to say, but I'm still not sure why this is something you're making a case on.

Why was Snivy scumreading Python? I think that's a key bit of information that would be needed in order to make the argument that Snivy's Python read should have changed. This feels pretty arbitrary without it. I don't think it's at all a given that someone stating similar thoughts as you on one particular read is going to make you dramatically change your opinion of them, especially pre-flip.

I never argued that Snivy's Python should have changed though

Like that's not my case at all

[usesPython]

There's a misunderstanding here; the case is that snivy should have been pushing us (due to expressing an sr on us) but did nothing instead

[Aureal]

given deadline unpaused, I'd compromise vote for Wheme but I'd like someone - preferably someone I'm not already townreading - to elaborate on why Wheme is scum over disengaged town

I already indicated earlier that I didn't think highly of this post:

I have no idea how to get into this game a lim on me wouldn't be bad im probably just gonna sheep ranger

I don't think townies are actually very likely to think a lim on them is fine. Basically it gives me vibes like they're going for this defense: "The twin that suggests that they both be killed is the good twin, because the evil twin wouldn't be selfless enough to die to make sure the other one did too. It's like, the oldest trick in the book." /shameless OotS plug

The fact that Wheme posted that, and then sprang to life after they started actually getting a serious wagon like they still want to fend it off, indicates to me that my initial skepticism of their angle was well-justified. Wheme has made nearly twice as many posts in the last few days since the threat of being the flip became serious. They aren't terribly useful posts for the most part, only giving a few reads or thoughts about the game while being more concerned with self-defense. It comes across very much like lurky scum who's making an effort to not be lurky to save themself now that they're at risk, but without giving away too much to avoid spewing info.

[Aureal]

I'm not sure if I understand your question tbh but I'll try to answer

In general, I don't think town has to pivot their read. Tunneling can come from either alignment. I've seen town tunnel because they were pursuing a genuine read, and I've seen scum shit-tunnel because it allows them to pretend to do something and everyone goes "wow much conviction so town!"

The one sentence scumcase summary is that I don't get the sense that Snivy believes in his reads, and some reads feel fabricated. The lack of a 'pivot' doesn't really factor into it.

But to actually answer your question - one reason to pivot would be that he's scumreading rauth using the same reasoning that python did (1142)

Okay... I think I see what you're trying to say, but I'm still not sure why this is something you're making a case on.

Why was Snivy scumreading Python? I think that's a key bit of information that would be needed in order to make the argument that Snivy's Python read should have changed. This feels pretty arbitrary without it. I don't think it's at all a given that someone stating similar thoughts as you on one particular read is going to make you dramatically change your opinion of them, especially pre-flip.

I never argued that Snivy's Python should have changed though

Like that's not my case at all

???

What's all the first part of 1831 for, then? That's what I'm getting from it. The 'not actually trying to push on Python despite the scumread' seems like a different argument. And I don't really agree with that take, I think an awful lot of people (including myself) are often not going to feel very able to make a useful push on someone who's widely townread. Especially when it's what appears to be mostly a gut/vibe read, not something you could really get into making a detailed wall analysis over.

[DragonEater70]

Okay so the people who voted Wheme are Ranger, then StD, Abnegation, Rauther, and RR.
Personally I tr Ranger, Abnegation, and RR so I guess I can see where you are coming from, but I don't feel Rauther's vote for instance is towny, it just looks like scum going with the flow tbh.

...what time frame are you looking at here?

I distinctly remember voting Wheme (again) after Python did.

I was looking at when everyone sheeped Ranger and voted wheme. I think it was page 69?

[KatyKimFanClub]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[DragonEater70]

You make a compelling point, and I was actually just about to comment that I feel I have too few scumreads (Kyoko, Rauth, and maybe your slot but not really due to this post), so I'm gonna have a look at Snivy's ISO for myself but I think I agree with your evaluation overall.

EBWOP

Btw I tried to do an ISO on Snivy yesterday but it was very half-hearted since I was quite tired. However I did feel that their posts were just meh-town mostly (as in, not obvtown buy there's nothing to make them >rand scum).

Which means atm my current scumreads which are not just null are apparently not very polular lims for today, so I am unsure what to do next. Maybe tomorrow if I have more motivation I will have a more in depth look at all the people who I null read (and there are quite a few of them, actually). Or maybe I will make a more compelling scumcase against Kyoko or Rauth.
But for real, not feeling the current wagons at all.

[DragonEater70]

Sorry for the rambling, I had 4 hours of sleep and worked 10 hoirs today.

[DragonEater70]

I’ll see what I can do to address the more recent content about 12 hours from now.

A quick skim has my reads unaffected, although I’ll need the full read to confirm.

I maintain WhemeStar is very visibly and obviously in his scum meta, and can provide a better explanation for why when I engage.

Meanwhile, please trust me. Don’t abandon the WhemeStar wagon on a frivolous pursuit for a better D1 elimination. WhemeStar is still a

good

elimination.

Looking forward to your explanation.

[Flea The Magician]

Guessing I missed something again

[Flea The Magician]

Wheme do you have a post (or lack of a post) that proves that you're just checked out and not lurking? Like a place in this game where you posted where you wouldn't have if you lurked or an opinion/position you held that you wouldn't have if you were trying to lie low?

I actually buy your argument because when I read your posts again a lot of them sound like you just don't care.

Wat.

"Do you have (or lack) a post that proves you're just checked out?"

VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

Thers been some nothingposting going on but this is actually fluffier than a jar of fluff.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Wheme do you have a post (or lack of a post) that proves that you're just checked out and not lurking? Like a place in this game where you posted where you wouldn't have if you lurked or an opinion/position you held that you wouldn't have if you were trying to lie low?

I actually buy your argument because when I read your posts again a lot of them sound like you just don't care.

Wat.

"Do you have (or lack) a post that proves you're just checked out?"

VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

Thers been some nothingposting going on but this is actually fluffier than a jar of fluff.

This is actually my least fluffy post. I'm trying to see if Wheme will speak up and spot the connection I talked about in 1820.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Maybe not least fluffy, but my position there was trying to establish the truthfulness of Wheme's position.

[Flea The Magician]

Maybe im just tired.
You are asking for proof that either does or doesnt exist and then you go on to answer your own questions in what read as an attempt to back off unsuspiciously and go elsewhere.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Okay... I think I see what you're trying to say, but I'm still not sure why this is something you're making a case on.

Why was Snivy scumreading Python? I think that's a key bit of information that would be needed in order to make the argument that Snivy's Python read should have changed. This feels pretty arbitrary without it. I don't think it's at all a given that someone stating similar thoughts as you on one particular read is going to make you dramatically change your opinion of them, especially pre-flip.

I never argued that Snivy's Python should have changed though

Like that's not my case at all

???

What's all the first part of 1831 for, then? That's what I'm getting from it.

I think a lot of his reads didn't change as the game was moving out of RVS (from page 10-30), not just Python. He scumread Python for not giving content early, so why didn't he develop his read after Python started to give more content?

What's your read on Snivy btw?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Maybe im just tired.
You are asking for proof that either does or doesnt exist and then you go on to answer your own questions in what read as an attempt to back off unsuspiciously and go elsewhere.

At the time, I thought my evidence was more exonerating than it was which probably is why it reads like a lawyer cross-examining in a courtroom.

[Aureal]

Okay so the people who voted Wheme are Ranger, then StD, Abnegation, Rauther, and RR.
Personally I tr Ranger, Abnegation, and RR so I guess I can see where you are coming from, but I don't feel Rauther's vote for instance is towny, it just looks like scum going with the flow tbh.

...what time frame are you looking at here?

I distinctly remember voting Wheme (again) after Python did.

I was looking at when everyone sheeped Ranger and voted wheme. I think it was page 69?

Ohhhh, okay, I think I'm seeing where you're going with this now. There was a wagon forming on Wheme before that, but it started stalling a bit. Then Ranger did seem to renew its energy there.

Then Drew complained about it, and reading his last posts with that in mind, I finally understand what he's trying to say in 1726.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

given deadline unpaused, I'd compromise vote for Wheme but I'd like someone - preferably someone I'm not already townreading - to elaborate on why Wheme is scum over disengaged town

I already indicated earlier that I didn't think highly of this post:

I have no idea how to get into this game a lim on me wouldn't be bad im probably just gonna sheep ranger

I don't think townies are actually very likely to think a lim on them is fine. Basically it gives me vibes like they're going for this defense: "The twin that suggests that they both be killed is the good twin, because the evil twin wouldn't be selfless enough to die to make sure the other one did too. It's like, the oldest trick in the book." /shameless OotS plug

Agreed it feels very anti town to be okay with your own elimination but I think Snivy also said this about himself

The fact that Wheme posted that, and then sprang to life after they started actually getting a serious wagon like they still want to fend it off, indicates to me that my initial skepticism of their angle was well-justified. Wheme has made nearly twice as many posts in the last few days since the threat of being the flip became serious. They aren't terribly useful posts for the most part, only giving a few reads or thoughts about the game while being more concerned with self-defense. It comes across very much like lurky scum who's making an effort to not be lurky to save themself now that they're at risk, but without giving away too much to avoid spewing info.

I can understand your reasoning here about kicking into gear when his own elimination seems possible, but he's voteparked on Ranger which doesn't feel very survivalistic (since that doesn't seem likely to go anywhere) and refused to join a Snivy wagon. Could be in antispew mode ig but that doesn't quite jive with the increased posting rate

[Aureal]

You make a compelling point, and I was actually just about to comment that I feel I have too few scumreads (Kyoko, Rauth, and maybe your slot but not really due to this post), so I'm gonna have a look at Snivy's ISO for myself but I think I agree with your evaluation overall.

EBWOP

Btw I tried to do an ISO on Snivy yesterday but it was very half-hearted since I was quite tired. However I did feel that their posts were just meh-town mostly (as in, not obvtown buy there's nothing to make them >rand scum).

Yeah, I just looked at his ISO too and it felt reasonably natural to me. I don't get why this one person not pushing this one read in particular is supposed to stand out so much.

Which means atm my current scumreads which are not just null are apparently not very polular lims for today, so I am unsure what to do next. Maybe tomorrow if I have more motivation I will have a more in depth look at all the people who I null read (and there are quite a few of them, actually). Or maybe I will make a more compelling scumcase against Kyoko or Rauth.
But for real, not feeling the current wagons at all.

Oh no, better hurry up and make a case or people might not think you believe in your read!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Oh no, better hurry up and make a case or people might not think you believe in your read!

Snivy also didn't fight the Merlyn wagon when it was building really fast

And Merlyn was one of his TRs

[camelCasedSnivy]

Oh no, better hurry up and make a case or people might not think you believe in your read!

Snivy also didn't fight the Merlyn wagon when it was building really fast

And Merlyn was one of his TRs

I literally was? I wasn't defending it with my life or anything but I suggested a pivot multiple times.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Oh no, better hurry up and make a case or people might not think you believe in your read!

Snivy also didn't fight the Merlyn wagon when it was building really fast

And Merlyn was one of his TRs

I literally was? I wasn't defending it with my life or anything but I suggested a pivot multiple times.

Can you quote which posts you're referring to?

[Aureal]

I think a lot of his reads didn't change as the game was moving out of RVS (from page 10-30), not just Python. He scumread Python for not giving content early, so why didn't he develop his read after Python started to give more content?

I think it did change some, though? By the time I asked people to give nightmare preferences, he had Python as a maybe, not a scumread.

What's your read on Snivy btw?

Nulltown. I agree that he's present but not pushy about his reads, I just don't really see it as scummy when it seems at least as reasonable for him to just be lacking confidence.