Micro 1085: Even/Odd Killers [GAME OVER]

[Thestatusquo]

I'm not going to post at all this game. Good luck fuckers.

[Thestatusquo]

Are you trying to make me post? It won't work. Except for this time it worked.

[Thestatusquo]

We're not out of Rvs.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: fireisred

I'll Lim on page 3. I'm down.

Someone hammer.

[Thestatusquo]

Fires vote isn't real he's just gonna be like yadda yadda yadda you said something like that in your garlic bread entrance.

[Thestatusquo]

And then I'm gonna be like so what. And then he'll back off and then we'll power Lim Datisi like we all want.

[Thestatusquo]

Also hi merlyn i joined this game because you did.

[Thestatusquo]

Fires vote isn't real he's just gonna be like yadda yadda yadda you said something like that in your garlic bread entrance.

does that make them scum

Weird question. Feels super reachy. Why would it?

[Thestatusquo]

If someone lol hammers it would probably be way more informative than what usually happens on page 2 of a game and would also be very funny.

[Thestatusquo]

Are you just mad that i said we all wanted to power lim you?

[Thestatusquo]

I mean i basically said nothing and i know you spectated that game. Wasn't a particularly hard deduction.

[Thestatusquo]

The actual fact is that I'm in a huge game right now and i entered both this game and last one trying to play not to my normal hyper style because I'm kind of exhausted but i failed in that game and it kind of already feels like I'm failing in this one.

I'm just sweaty always and i guess i should kind of just embrace that.

[Thestatusquo]

I specifically joined this game because i want to play with merlyn.

Also, I'm kind of confused by the up the ante content because i feel like my entrance here was like way less cheeky than i was in garlic bread.

[Thestatusquo]

Idk I'm pretty sure you've pushed me in every game we've played together so I'm not surprised. I think you were town in all those games though and i don't think I've ever played against scum you don't think this conversation gives me any useful info so i just kinda want to blow it up.

[Thestatusquo]

Shrug. Maybe my perception is wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

I came into this game expecting you to scum read me as soon as I saw you in though.

[Thestatusquo]

That... Isn't my recollection at all

[Thestatusquo]

Ig maybe it's possible that i feel scum read by you even when you're not scum reading me because of the style of how you interact with people.

[Thestatusquo]

Also i find this whole interaction kind of contrived tbh.

Not sure if you're just doing it to create content or not as town or as a hook into the game if scum.

[Thestatusquo]

i think it is like 80% unimportant and 20% not wanting you to dismiss my suspicions as "oh fire always suspects me" when that isn't true

i don't think you're lying about your perception or anything but i do think it isn't accurate or fair to dismiss it in that way

How do you feel about it wrt this specific suspicion? Am I supposed to take you seriously here or what?

Why do you care about how i perceive your suspicions of me? If I'm scum you wouldn't think it matters.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean i feel it's kind of ridiculous tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

that does feel like a little bit of a self conscious thought process to me.

[Thestatusquo]

hot diggity damn I hate like that whole string of posts.

[Thestatusquo]

I think ur catchup is wolfily skeletal / awkward

could've been a smaller number of posts and doesnt really actually say much (particularly "I dont see why x is scum" is a wolf-tell imo; other posts ping me for basically the exact same reason)

pretty much what I was picking up on. It's a lot of "content" that says like almost nothing.

in particular the comment "this thing could be NAI for her" just like pings me to hell. Like of course it could be but you ain't getting an answer to that question from a 30 second skim of an iso.

VOTE: appearance

[Thestatusquo]

Nope.

[Thestatusquo]

do town not omgus?

[Thestatusquo]

I do think merlyn white knighted me quite a bit in garlic bread heist. As town.

[Thestatusquo]

another term for "white knight" might be "saying you town read someone."

just a fun exercise about thinking through the words we use to describe things.

[Thestatusquo]

which is kind of my issue with appearance. I feel like the words they use are constructed in such a way as to paint things in negative lights a lot of the time when they're not.

Town omgus all the time. Frequently people find the way others interact with their slot to be a good jumping off point for understanding their worldview and perspective. It's not how I generally play the game but its a valid one and one I'm sure almost anyone who plays a decent amount of mafia has seen a lot.

I don't mean to harp on this specific example but the way in which appearance is throwing out buzzwords and describing the actions of others feels...uncharitable? and as if its got an agenda.

[Thestatusquo]

I notice stuff like this because its something I do a lot as scum, try to build narrative subtly with the way I'm describing things so that I don't have to push stuff just have others pick up on the negative framing I'm using and run with it.

It's very effective.

[Thestatusquo]

my problem is I think you're being too careful with your wording, not that you're not careful enough.

I think you're framing your conversations with others in ways that try to make them look bad rather than try to figure out their alignment.

[Thestatusquo]

Why are you voting fireisred? I must have missed that.

[Thestatusquo]

So do you disagree with me then?

[Thestatusquo]

hot take(?): appearance is town

i feel like the early unnecessary claim is something that comes from town more often than not, and i'm not sure if i see scum being this chill about being at y-1 and unvoting and not really giving any sort of solid reads bc i feel like a base instinct for most scum is to *do stuff* in that position

this feels lazy as fuck.

[Thestatusquo]

I think datisi might be scum.

to answer their question it seems like extremely level 0 analysis that a wagon getting to e-1 would react in a certain away especially because the slot is clearly an alt with experience.

[Thestatusquo]

I think datisi might be scum.

Why not vote here? I'm down for a Datisi wagon but I can't help but worry that 176 might apply here...

I think I've been pretty clear I also think appearance is scum? Why would I switch?

[Thestatusquo]

to answer their question it seems like extremely level 0 analysis that a wagon getting to e-1 would react in a certain away especially because the slot is clearly an alt with experience.

bestie it was page 9 what kinda profound analysis do you expect of me here

also my read was made in mind with appearance being an alt with some experience, if they were a complete noob i could see them freezing up under pressure but i don't think scum with experience reacts like that

It's not that your analysis needs to be profound its that I think your analysis is bad and I don't think town!you believes in it.

[Thestatusquo]

I think datisi might be scum.

Why not vote here? I'm down for a Datisi wagon but I can't help but worry that 176 might apply here...

This is actually super slimy. Or at least you're completely misunderstanding me, whether thats intentional or not I don't know.

I think that it should be pretty clear that "I think x might be scum" is not "subtly framing things with words to create a narrative on someone" I am literally expressing a read here.

[Thestatusquo]

Like I don't see how black actually sees my comment about how the way you describes things can shape narratives and think "this applies to someone expressing a read concretely."

They're so clearly not the same thing that its a ridiculous comment on face.

[Thestatusquo]

You realize that the way you're interpreting requires you to think that my statement applies to literally any time someone expresses a read without voting, right?

You have to realize there's no way that's what I was talking about right?

[Thestatusquo]

If you're town please reread my initial statement. I am talking about the words we use to describe things which create a thread narrative. A better example would be how I just used the word "slimy" to apply to your post.

The words we use shape narrative. We create thread perception of other players by how we describe them without the accountability of expressing how we actually feel. I am not talking about expressing a read on someone concretely.

I also think your initial reaction to me was kind of bizarre. Like, you're clearly aware that I scum read appearance. Why was your reaction to me expressing a potential scum read somewhere else to try to shade me? Why would you expect me to shift off of a wagon that I am on on someone who I think is scum to start a random counter wagon on a different scum read? It seemed like you were trying to shade my actions without thinking very much about what town me would actually do in a situation where I scum read the person I am voting but also am starting to develop a different scum read?

[Thestatusquo]

Bunch of questions there you appear to be ignoring.

[Thestatusquo]

What about appearance is solving this game?

I don't agree with anyone who has said the response seemed townie to me it seemed extremely preservationist and I don't think any of what they've done this game is helpful for finding scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm kind of confused why don seems to be agreeing with most of what I'm saying and voting me.

[Thestatusquo]

Hi delta.

I don't think anything has happened on the last few pages that changes my opinion of the game state.

[Thestatusquo]

Is this the dumbest conversation in the history of Mafia games or merely top 5?

[Thestatusquo]

The pit of my stomach is telling me sheep is scum.

[Thestatusquo]

oh fuck off.

[Thestatusquo]

I think its more likely you don't really have things that you are thinking. All of that was recycled, and your entire attack on me followed by a naked voted "because of the votecount" remains completely unsubstantiated and was also a hangers on push from others which you have done nothing to discuss or push forward.

[Thestatusquo]

Actually fuck it I think this is just not town sheep at all.

VOTE: Sheep

[Thestatusquo]

I dont struggle to produce good thoughts as wolf

funnily that was basically the early push on me last game

I just find it harder soooometimes as villager to find the motivation to type up for u guys what im thinking lmaoo like screw u all

I don't really feel like this is true. I've played with town you a lot and while your thoughts are short and not in depth they're always there and I always am able to follow your thought process.

Here, not even a little bit.

[Thestatusquo]

sheep is probably either town or im gonna let him pocket me

this shit is so fucking frustrating tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

honestly not sure what town!fires motivation for trying to chop down me down there is though.

doesn't really serve any purpose for actually expressing a read on sheep or for actually discerning either of our alignments. Seems only designed to express a town read that can be pointed back to later tbh.

[Thestatusquo]

i stg only merlyn is town.

[Thestatusquo]

tell you what I'm willing to vote anyone besides merlyn.

[Thestatusquo]

hero solve is sheep is sk fire/appearance scum team. Datisi could be swapped in for any and all. Delta could be scum trying to pocket me. I didn't get much pings in any direction from black that I can remember.

Don/rodon are whatever.

[Thestatusquo]

What "stuff"

What was "your reaction" that you had?

and why?

Because all sheep posted was some thoughts that were parroting things others have said from like 4 pages ago so I'm insanely curious.

[Thestatusquo]

what thoughts

[Thestatusquo]

please be explicit. What things did sheep say that made you think he was town?

[Thestatusquo]

which "thoughts" are you following, exactly?

[Thestatusquo]

I dont think fires read of sheep feels even remotely real and my experience with town fire is he tends to poke and prod all over the place and hes not doing that. I don't think I've ever played with him as scum though so I'll need to read a scum game.

[Thestatusquo]

no you didnt, you vaguely gestured at some derivative stuff and said "I can follow the thought process!"

[Thestatusquo]

I have a lot of scum reads because so many people are being scummy.

This is extremely abnormal for me as either alignment.

Feel free to read either garlic bread or my team Mafia game. My town game is typically to end up with a lot of town reads so I mimic that as scum. Here I have basically no town reads because everyone is being sketchy as shit.

[Thestatusquo]

Ironically this is about as far out of my scum range as I ever go as town. Because my usual town range involves finding lots of town reads I just don't usually mimic the times where I can't find them as scum at all.

Shrug. That's self meta but you can go and read my recent games yourself. It's quite obviously true.

[Thestatusquo]

Also the claim that my scum play would be to scum read everyone but my partner merlyn explicitly and loudly is kind of insulting.

Bruh you know I just won team Mafia as scum right? What the fuck.

[Thestatusquo]

I get the theory behind it on a conceptual level but once you get to the details it breaks down.

It requires me to a) be completely and openly linking myself to a partner which is something I'm pretty good at doing the exact opposite of and b) requires me to think that relieving RVS pressure is somehow worth doing that when it's not and c) implies that my play as scum this game would be based off of protecting my partner and controlling the thread when I think the clearly optimal play this game for scum would be to simply sk hunt.

I don't think any of those things are true, but I do kind of see the thought process behind the thought I just wish it would go a level deeper in it's analysis and look at whether scum! Shea would actually be playing the way he is describing.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the characterization of me not having 'bite' to my pushes is straight up wrong though and I promise you I'm perfectly capable of pushing with bite as scum and in fact being conflicted is much more of a Hallmark of my town game though obviously I try to replicate it.

[Thestatusquo]

I think the push is townie though. It feels like a real thought even if I don't think it's a good one.

[Thestatusquo]

Feel free to look it up yourself.

When someone says "you are playing this way and therefore you are scum" and I know that generally I don't play that way as scum I feel obligated to point it out. There's plenty of what I just said there that isn't self meta though.

[Thestatusquo]

As it so happens I think its pretty true on face that most people would not play the way roden is talking about on face. Ask yourself if you were partners with merlyn would you play the way I am being accused of playing? What is my motivation for playing that way if we're scum? What is my motivation for just throwing suspicion everywhere if I'm scum? As scum players are generally much more careful about who they are scum reading and why because they are more concerned with staying alive than getting specific lims. You can very easily compare all this stuff to your own town play and scum play.

I'm not saying anything revolutionary here.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: appearance

[Thestatusquo]

I think they solving and honestly the fact that everyone keeps saying they think we're partnered even further reinforces my read that they're town.

Doesn't seem very likely that scum would push a narrative of me having a scum buddy when I'm town.

I don't think they've been especially pockety towards me either so

[Thestatusquo]

appearance has completely stopped playing the game after he gave his initial defense and people town read him for no reason.

[Thestatusquo]

I kinda want to do some more self meta to annoy delta.

[Thestatusquo]

I'd preferentially take out the SK today because it takes a kill every other night off the table, which I think increases our chances by significantly more than popping a mafioso today.

I agree with the assertion that fire is scum over Datisi also.

either a real dumb tell or an attempted fake dumbtell. Hard to say which.

[Thestatusquo]

i never said you're buddies with her so that doesn't do anything for me

Doesn't seem very likely that scum would push a narrative of me having a scum buddy when I'm town.

i don't understand how this is relevant for your merlyn read, she wasn't the one to say that?

can you expand on it more than "she's solving"? i didn't really like her solving and the readslist rubs me the wrong way

pedits: @shea

Before I do I want to hear more about "i didnt really like her solving"

What about it?

[Thestatusquo]

I kinda want to do some more self meta to annoy delta.

can u do the self meta

If I seem like I'm having fun I'm way more likely to be scum.

If I seem like the game is causing me physical pain I'm way more likely to be town.

[Thestatusquo]

appearance has completely stopped playing the game after he gave his initial defense and people town read him for no reason.

Point out the townreaders?

I think his reaction to ur push, as in very apologetic, is interesting and probably towny lol

VOTE: Roden

I think Appearance comes across as more townie than he initially felt to me, and I'm not really liking the way Roden jumped on the wagon to put him back at e-1. I also feel like a lot of Roden's questions have felt like fake sorting attempts, kinda on a performative level of "oh look I'm trying to solve"

hot take(?): appearance is town

i feel like the early unnecessary claim is something that comes from town more often than not, and i'm not sure if i see scum being this chill about being at y-1 and unvoting and not really giving any sort of solid reads bc i feel like a base instinct for most scum is to *do stuff* in that position

their overall response is towny not just the claim

they've been panicking for like a page of posts and scum wouldnt I think

to answer their question it seems like extremely level 0 analysis that a wagon getting to e-1 would react in a certain away especially because the slot is clearly an alt with experience.

bestie it was page 9 what kinda profound analysis do you expect of me here

also my read was made in mind with appearance being an alt with some experience, if they were a complete noob i could see them freezing up under pressure but i don't think scum with experience reacts like that

[Thestatusquo]

Though I think you're misreading my statement now that I reread your post.

people townread him, as in past tense, as in people town read him in response to the E-1 stuff.

Seems like you might be reading it as people are town reading him right now, present tense, which isn't what I meant.

[Thestatusquo]

Though I think you're misreading my statement now that I reread your post.

people townread him, as in past tense, as in people town read him in response to the E-1 stuff.

Seems like you might be reading it as people are town reading him right now, present tense, which isn't what I meant.

Yeah i gotcha. At least now there seems to be a consensus on his slot.

its odd to me though, because not much has changed. If people had thought he was townie for that response I would expect them to still find him to be townie.

The fact that no one is speaking up for him even though there were a lot of rumblings of town reads earlier is part of why I don't think he's aligned with anyone.

[Thestatusquo]

Before I do I want to hear more about "i didnt really like her solving"

i already talked about the early appearance stuff

her readslist felt like, idk forced i guess. a lot of it is a lot of words that just say nothing. was roden really pushing a bunch of players? why is fire preflipped with me as scum? why does it take so much to say "datisi is playing passively"? is appearance part saying anything new?

like this kinda readlist would be more a "i'm not sure what my reads are i need to get them in order" but it doesn't seem to be presented like that

do they not feel like genuine thoughts she has on the game? To me they do. Like I guess I kind of associate lackluster and inconsistency with townie play and less so with scum. I'd be more concerned with a read list that felt more polished and directional. I get the sense that merlyn has a bunch of thoughts in her head about this game and some of them aren't completely fleshed out and some of them are contradictory which is also how I feel about this game right now so I vibe with it.

[Thestatusquo]

its also worth noting: re all the mech talk.

It is definitely still good for town to hit SK today but it is especially good for scum to hit SK today because then they direct all the nightkills.

So I think its worth looking into who was a little bit too enthusiastic about refuting the "we shouldn't try to hit sk today" point.

[Thestatusquo]

Name one scum read I've given up on.

[Thestatusquo]

Name one scum read I've given up on.

Sheep.

I still think sheep could be scum.

[Thestatusquo]

No. Sheep is like my third or fourth choice to Lim today so I don't see any real reason to push that.

[Thestatusquo]

That's...kinda what I said you did

No you're accusing me of my scum reads going nowhere but I'm not sure what you expect me to do, I can't vote them all at once?

[Thestatusquo]

I think your read is crap and saying I'm not solvy is just straight up wrong.

[Thestatusquo]

GG everyone.