Mini Normal 2305 | GAME OVER

[humaneatingmonkey]

how about you, why are you coming up with inaccurate reasons to scumread me

[Save The Dragons]

they're not inaccurate.

On d1 you were on roden. Greeting TRs you for something and Roden then trs you for something. You don't notice greeting's tr and attack roden for his tr. I don't know how you can say you were on greeting since d1.

you did lurk whether you want to call it that or not. if you want to call it a tactical decision to not be in the thread, that's fine too, it's still possible to do as scum. to discuss whether or not you "lurked" is pedantic and beside the point.

can you point out where you had me in your POE on d2? it's possible i'm missing this, I have to run to work so i can't check myself right now

[geraintm]

Sorry for not posting at all
I have no connection with thr game, and am happy to follow the wisdom of thr town

[bob3141]

they're not inaccurate.

On d1 you were on roden. Greeting TRs you for something and Roden then trs you for something. You don't notice greeting's tr and attack roden for his tr. I don't know how you can say you were on greeting since d1.

you did lurk whether you want to call it that or not. if you want to call it a tactical decision to not be in the thread, that's fine too, it's still possible to do as scum. to discuss whether or not you "lurked" is pedantic and beside the point.

can you point out where you had me in your POE on d2? it's possible i'm missing this, I have to run to work so i can't check myself right now

Is this any different to last game when you were scum?

[bob3141]

Does anyone not think the scum in is {Hem,std,bob}

As long as we dont stray out of this poe were sure to hit scum.

Perosnaly i think teh order should be

Dragon> Bob > HEM

dragon i think is most likely scum and i want my slot flipped before elo as i am town mason finder but am fully aware its a role players would be inclinded to think is a scum role. And i dont want to be an elo misexecution

Also about those think dragon is town. That was the same thing that was said about him in dragons last completed scum win. Also i want a scum royal flush

[Elements]

Is std on e-1?

[bob3141]

oh i know my role doesnt clear me worst.

worst your prob right that my role is neg utilty town role then. As day one there would be 30% chance that scum find out about masons and n1 a 44% chance. and so on if no mason or mason related role either gets nk or force claim.

And if they hit the finder it implys that its 3 mason team.

[bob3141]

Is std on e-1?

dragon has 2 votes now. so he is at e-2

[Elements]

VOTE: StD

[Save The Dragons]

they're not inaccurate.

On d1 you were on roden. Greeting TRs you for something and Roden then trs you for something. You don't notice greeting's tr and attack roden for his tr. I don't know how you can say you were on greeting since d1.

you did lurk whether you want to call it that or not. if you want to call it a tactical decision to not be in the thread, that's fine too, it's still possible to do as scum. to discuss whether or not you "lurked" is pedantic and beside the point.

can you point out where you had me in your POE on d2? it's possible i'm missing this, I have to run to work so i can't check myself right now

Is this any different to last game when you were scum?

What do you mean by this

[Elements]

Does anyone not think the scum in is {Hem,std,bob}

@StD

[Save The Dragons]

I think it is HEM. If not hem, probably Bob but I'd want to look at things before committing to that

[humaneatingmonkey]

Elements I think it should be {std, gerain} but std > gerain.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Spoiler: HEM on Greeting, Day 1

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

I'm not buying the walls of text at all, it is an easy way to get towncred for effort. A lot of players don't read them anyway. He said that they're mostly for him, but that's what a PT is for, not the main thread. A lot of his reads (1189) feel completely contentless, and even the ones which actually have content feel watered-down.

okay no one asked yet...but here we go, general thoughts on everyone.

Gera, its null, they havent done anything, the only thing that is different this game (I meta-ed them the last game) is that they havent complained as much about Day 1 sucking this game. the only thing to note is that for someone who doesnt like Day 1, they had a chance to end it by hammer Roden. IF Roden flips scum, Gera is suspect. if Roden flips town, Gera looks townish.

OD, it hurts me to say you are in my top 3 scum suspects. maybe it is play style, but I find myself making excuses FOR you. I dont like your interaction with Tweet. Leaning tweet/OD scum team. The only thing that is stopping my vote, is I DID suspect you last game and you were town. you are killing me with the "to be honest" posts. if you flip scum, I will never let a "to be honest" post slide again. you seem opportunistic. I want you to scum hunt, you seem like you are coasting on others.

Elements, it could be residue effects from the last game, but have been back and forth on you in the read. most of your jumps on wagons look bad, but you have had a couple where I thought "hmm, would scum do that?". going to put a pin in this for now. need to see some flips.

Greeting, ugh...null too. hops in, does a little dance party full of questions and light-thoughts...jumps out again. didnt hammer Roden (follow back up if there is a Roden flip). I need to see more from this slot.

Roden, ugh..I think a lot of info COULD come from this slip. But I think he is town...if he flips scum, I look bad, but....it is what it is. I wont be voting him today, will see if that end up killing me today. I hate the self vote. if I found a game where are scum he self voted, I would jump on this wagon, HEM homework?

Klick, null pile with EFN (Nips), more like Greeting, comes in...does the hokey pokey, jumps out. who knows.

That's like half of players in the game, and generally can be boiled down to one word - "null".

I suppose the rest of the reads do give some information about

curiouskarmadog

's stances in this game, but I simply disagree with most of them and have a feeling like they're not genuine.

So yeah, I can get behind this wagon.

im wondering why karmadog's other and stronger reads are conveniently left out of this "half sample", and I wonder if that could have been malicious.

i may have been pocketed but I don't know if I agree that ckd's posts are that much devoid of content. it saved me a lot of time having to ask him about his reads because I could already see the timeline of his progression.

He said that they're mostly for him, but that's what a PT is for, not the main thread.

Like this isn't even a real critique of his content. This is just personal style stuff.

I'm not buying the walls of text at all

I simply disagree with most of them and have a feeling like they're not genuine.

I would also like you to elaborate why you don't buy karmadog's posts at all. Is it a specific read and progression? I'm truly curious because I want you to be town.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

I'm not buying the walls of text at all, it is an easy way to get towncred for effort.

annnnnd, here we go.

did you have the problem with the walls of text in this game we were in together?

viewtopic.php?t=90681

where I was town....and posted said walls when I had to catch up.

That's like half of players in the game, and generally can be boiled down to one word - "null".

is it scummy to have "half null". what are your reads on everyone? thats what I thought.

but a lie is a lie.

you DONT have a problem with my walls of text. it was a shitty reason to vote at best, you are scum...

VOTE: Greeting

if you can collect 5 people who will do it with me, I will vote immediately and let you hammer.

[Save The Dragons]

That's not very impressive

[Thestatusquo]

VoteCount 4.2

Save The Dragons [ 3 ]

bob3141, humaneatingmonkey, Elements

humaneatingmonkey [ 2 ]

save the dragons, the worst

Not Voting [ 2 ]

geraintm, curiouskarmadog

With 7 alive it takes 4 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2023-08-08 11:31:31)

[the worst]

hem/greeting d1 literally looks like scum theatre

i literally don't trust y'all to lim hem on d5 and he's like, clearly aligned with flipped scum. i'm not moving my vote unless it's to save from a no-lim or if i have a huge change of heart.

[the worst]

i'm so sorry i need to run soon but i've finished d1 and like, i'm pretty sure i'm right about hem, if not it's just dragons, failing that it's bob, but i'm pretty sure i'm right.

ckd is absolutely town.
gera is, to my extreme surprise, probably town!
is emperor/bob town? i don't really know they haven't done much yet (but i liked ~2 things)
is dragons town? like, maybe that world exists. if we're in that world, scum are absolutely fucking wild this game and i can explain why later.

hem has been the strongest voice in the game & has consistently pushed throughout the d1 i've read, but he has consistently missed the mark.

1) on day one, there was a false dichotomy in the [roden, ckd] lim. when roden towned it up, hem went for ckd. when ckd towned it up, he went back to roden. the other viable options were clidd (which never got traction, probably in part because he was a mason with two swing voters) or greeting. this false dichotomy benefits greeting alone.

2) hem was aware of greeting's scumminess, and there are *multiple* points at which hem should have been biting on that and interrogating greeting. he failed to do so at every opportunity.

3) hem absolutely roasted ~half the playerlist, nearly all town and one scum - furtive. his interrogation of town players was consistently lengthy and thorough and forced them to evaluate. he randomly decided he agreed with furtive after like a third of a conversation, and never reevaluated. part of this lack of evaluation was not evaluating furtive's greeting scumread, which he claimed to agree with.

4) the gamestate of d1 was in a stranglehold. there were other voices in the thread capable of taking the reins, but they were not able to. being a mason, mt's attentions were divided. ckd was absent. i get the impression oopsie could have lit shit on fire on another day but i think her energies were spent solving other stuff. hem had the absolute run of the thread on day one, and as a result the gamestate benefited whatever angle hem was pushing. as outlined in point #1, this was scum motivated or a very misguided townie. i feel really bad to lay this blame at a single player's feet, but hem was absolutely the captain of day one and there's a pretty clear abuse of power.

5) takutai is a really fucking weird n1 kill. you would expect scum to go for a fairly strong, widely-townread voice. i understand hem isn't a perfect kill after he led the town down a toilet on d1, but he's kind of the obvious kill to disrupt town cohesion? i'd argue oopsie would also have been a decent kill to disrupt cohesion, but i think hem remaining alive with oopsie dead (especially with ckd onto oopsie) would have put the spotlight back on hem. i'm going to make some points:

5a) takutai wasn't a major voice for a lot of the phase, but they were a cohesive voice when it counted.
5b) takutai did have some posts which make sense as a tpr. i think hem is the only person who picked this up really (297). i can expand.
5c) takutai's reads were, like, not accurate. they had el/oopsie/gera as the scumteam for the better part of the phase, and had greeting as locktown which wasn't evaluated until the end of the phase.
with the kills we've seen + what we know of the masons, please consider that this is a scumpool of 2-3 town, and a locktown of 1 scum. deciding on this kill would *not* have been trivial.





---

ok gotta run. i can do a better case expanding on where i'm seeing these things against hem (with post references and all!). i can expand on why scum!dragons/klick is a really weird reality. i can expand on why ckd is town, but i don't really want to. i can expand on why gera is unaligned. lemme know what will help.


if this all happened on d2 already and i'm dumb let me know, but like. sure hem could be town here. but he could absolutely be scum. he just keeps doing things which align too closely with what the scumteam needs to happen to win. his negligence has had a tendency to benefit scum. his deliberate actions have had a tendency to benefit scum. at times he's seemed 'tonally towny', or even worse, convincing, when he did it. but there's too obvious a pattern of scum-siding here to look past. if it walks like mafia, talks like mafia and makes cute monkey noises like mafia, we need to kill it.


also consider if we're epic wrong and hem+dragons is actually town/town, then dragons is forced to evaluate the game and we get a really cool new perspective which can no longer afford to be tunneled

@bob & el in particular -- can y'all talk to me about why you don't scumread hem, or don't think he's a threat? i get not having dragons cleared (though i will case for why he's a fucking goofy partner to flipped scum later). but hem is actively aligned with flipped scum, and is a very dangerous player to keep alive. dragons is a safe, easy flip now or later. he's also tunnelled on HEM (as am I), and if he's wrong will need to dramatically re-evaluate. i have no idea why either of you are voting for dragons, except that you're both happy with the POE. this isn't the way to clear that POE out. with respect, what the hell are you both doing?

keen to hear from gera & ckd too but understand one is on another vibe the other is v/la

[the worst]

Ok, maybe all scums are inside of this group: [Furtive, Greeting, Flippy, Klick, Gera].

If only 2 on above, I guess there is a world in which I'm wrong about HEM, and he is playing with our perceptions. If that's the case, then I'm going 0/4 against scum!HEM.

Anyways, the simplest solution is the first one.

I could go for either Furtive or Greeting here.

why do people keep foreshadowing lmao heeelp

[the worst]

it's hem. i haven't had scum on lock so hard since a looong time before my hiatus.
hem 80%
dragons 10%
bob 6%
gera 3%
ckd 1%

kinda thing. my case is going to be an eldritch horror.

[the worst]

i need to go out to a lunch please don't end the phase unless we power-lim hem

[the worst]

we have a comfortable POE of [bob, hem, dragons] rn but who are the people supporting it?

bob, hem, el, myself (+ maybe Dragons)?

gera and ckd are our wildcards, and our most free-spirited players, and those are 2/3 of the players who would form final 3. this gamestate means it's our game to lose. I'll make my case for why monkey is scum and why he needs to die long before final 3.

[the worst]

to be honest

, i thought you were scum....(see what I did there?)

nevermind ckd claimed scum easy game

[the worst]

furtive do you think Elements is scum

I don't think so, interaction with Greeting/Snivy looks good, and otherwise seem to be moving the game forward.

what interaction with the greeting slot made you think it was good?

why is moving the game forward = town. Wouldnut scum also want to move the game forward?

I guess scum could want to control the game by posting a lot, I just don't get why they'd then use that control to bus their teammate when there were other options.

this one aged very well

[the worst]

So Bob is obviously telling the truth but yea that doesn't clear him

Dragons as well what

Where am I sussing the mason claims

I'm finding clidd pretty suspicious right now

I interpreted this as agreeing with HEM that Ele distancing clidd was some kind of contradiction

this convo is really funny because HEM & bingle just spent 2 pages trying to trick bob into outing the third mason