Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[Flavor Leaf]

With Devil, I think I’m Vibing with Drew more than I have in any game before, just kind of casually, and I’m just not seeing ill intent there like I am with some other slots. Like for instance, i don’t think they have a reason to town read me here as scum unless they want me to push a misfade, and turn on me later, but i just don’t get that vibe at all.

Usually they discredit me when they’re scum

[Aureal]

i think marci hasn't really been scummy, and there have been things i found town indicative. i'm not really interested in pressuring there to get a better read, because i think marci tends to react really badly to pressure and it makes the game messier and isn't necessarily actually helpful (sorry marci)

she's a hard slot to read because she tends to play in a more actively pro-town way as scum but reading her that way just means if she tries to like play to her wincon and stuff she gets punished for it which feels bad. i think the best approach is to read her mostly normally but keep in mind she can and often does stuff as town which most people find scummy. it's a hard balance to strike because it's not like the meta is super reliable at all but i don't think reading her normally is that likely to work either

it's probably worth noting that roden said earlier he townreads marci for slaying, which means scum marci is more likely to go out of her way to slay in this game?

I cannot wrap my head around what this is trying to say about how to read marci. Don't pressure her. Read her 'normally' (whatever that is) but

don't

read her 'normally'. What do we do? This explanation makes me feel like we're just not supposed to try.

[marcistar]

marcistar go "hehe vote me you clowns" and is serious about it when town
but marcistar go "hehe vote me you clowns" and gives reads and tries to gain sympathy through emotions when scum :3

[Flavor Leaf]

i think marci hasn't really been scummy, and there have been things i found town indicative. i'm not really interested in pressuring there to get a better read, because i think marci tends to react really badly to pressure and it makes the game messier and isn't necessarily actually helpful (sorry marci)

she's a hard slot to read because she tends to play in a more actively pro-town way as scum but reading her that way just means if she tries to like play to her wincon and stuff she gets punished for it which feels bad. i think the best approach is to read her mostly normally but keep in mind she can and often does stuff as town which most people find scummy. it's a hard balance to strike because it's not like the meta is super reliable at all but i don't think reading her normally is that likely to work either

it's probably worth noting that roden said earlier he townreads marci for slaying, which means scum marci is more likely to go out of her way to slay in this game?

I cannot wrap my head around what this is trying to say about how to read marci. Don't pressure her. Read her 'normally' (whatever that is) but

don't

read her 'normally'. What do we do? This explanation makes me feel like we're just not supposed to try.

The defense kind of contradicts themselves saying they act townie as scum.

I think it’s a fair assessment, and more of a buddy defense in the sense they are familiar with Marci and wanted to kind of wait and see.

That’s how I am with RCE, tbh, or I’d have full on went for the 1v1, but i don’t really mind shading there for now.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually think Marcistar’s defense is extremely scum trying to act like they don’t care, tbh

[Flavor Leaf]

At any rate, it’s a weird defense by Meowmeow, but i think they’re just defending someone they’ve played with before because they’ve enjoyed playing with them and not doing the best word wise to explain their feelings on it

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm not entirely sure (part of the reason I'm asking for explanations from the voters) but loosely leaning town. I haven't seen anything to scumread and have felt lost for scumreads like he has so I was kind of taken aback by this wagon being a thing. It's annoyingly reminiscent of our prior game which I've referenced.

FL might have something of a point in that I hadn't considered Cakez's read on him as a difference between the games; but I think it was reasonable for Cakez to TR him for his big wall posting entrance in dividing conner and not TR him for his not so big entrance here, so getting to a scumread here doesn't seem particularly weird to me. They've got plenty more history between them that could maybe explain things, but I'm not privy to it.

I get not having scum reads - some games are just like that - but some of what Cakez has done has felt like going through the motions. Why he re-evaluated Penguin felt strange to me and didn't seem the match up with his posting/frame of mind. I also remember he said he’s going to town hunt bc he didn't have scumreads, but then I don’t really remember him doing much of that. He threw one tr at Roden and that was kind of just it.

The reasoning behind the FL vote (“reactive/not taking initiative”) is interesting, because it’s actually the opposite to how I felt about FL’s posting and even if it were reactive, I’m not sure why that would be scum indicative for FL in particular. I'm curious what he expected FL to have done in the last “2 pages” when he wrote 758. I haven’t read Dividing Connor, but I might take a look later. I just don’t really have the capacity to read another game right now because hangover

Spoiler:

Speaking of scumspects though
VOTE: flavor leaf
Last couple pages FL has been super underwhelming. Feels like hes just kinda here reacting to stuff, there's not any initiative

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Also also Alianna defended cakes again with Marci pushing there in some capacity. I get hydra dissonance but I think the falloff would have been discussed at some point between you two.

This is a good point

[Cat Scratch Fever]

can we just vote cakez out pls

bcuz hes scum

what even was the reason flavor leaf flipped into pushing cakez? because this lowkey feels weird and makes me want to unvote if anything LOL

this trajectory is actually super scummy.

@Cakez - what's your read on Marcistar?

You wanted to talk and actually engage, I might be convinced to go on here?

Can you explain their push on you because this is a hilarious trajectory imo

I kinda agree actually

[Flavor Leaf]

@CSF - Dividing Connor basically I replaced in around same time this game, hard defended scum, town read Cakez, went on to get hard pocketed by Merlyn to the point I knew I was pocketed, and still pushed a misfade on Cakez near the end game.

[Flavor Leaf]

@CSF - what’s your take on Marcistar telling me to read the game to get their reasonings? Because I actively posted every reason of theirs in their ISO.

Feels like they’re actively trying to avoid having arguments for Cakez scum.

It’s also weird because I was pushing Cakez as scum at the time, so it looks like they were trying to push Cakez while keeping me discredited, which is a super weird spot.

Because there really is just that one reason that Marci is wanting Cakez, and personally, I think there are many better reasons than the one they’ve posted.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@CSF - Dividing Connor basically I replaced in around same time this game, hard defended scum, town read Cakez, went on to get hard pocketed by Merlyn to the point I knew I was pocketed, and still pushed a misfade on Cakez near the end game.

I was more interested in whether it made sense for Cakez to scumread you based on your entrance here vs there

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@CSF - what’s your take on Marcistar telling me to read the game to get their reasonings? Because I actively posted every reason of theirs in their ISO.

Feels like they’re actively trying to avoid having arguments for Cakez scum.

It’s also weird because I was pushing Cakez as scum at the time, so it looks like they were trying to push Cakez while keeping me discredited, which is a super weird spot.

Because there really is just that one reason that Marci is wanting Cakez, and personally, I think there are many better reasons than the one they’ve posted.

I'm still reading, but I kind of think if marci is scum, I don't really see how it benefits scum!her to refuse to respond to you like this? Like why wouldn't she just answer you, you know?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Like why bother with all the antagonism. It just makes her look bad

[Flavor Leaf]

Simple. Scum interacting more with me gets eaten.

I think they picked the best choice in regards to dealing with me

Especially if someone like RCE is a partner.

But their posting is straight walling me, when I was trying to work with them to learn about the read they are pushing.

It feels like they are actively limiting what they want their push on Cakez, and has zero comments regarding Cakez and the recent stuff.

Like they don’t want to take a side on that.

[Roden]

i think marci hasn't really been scummy, and there have been things i found town indicative. i'm not really interested in pressuring there to get a better read, because i think marci tends to react really badly to pressure and it makes the game messier and isn't necessarily actually helpful (sorry marci)

she's a hard slot to read because she tends to play in a more actively pro-town way as scum but reading her that way just means if she tries to like play to her wincon and stuff she gets punished for it which feels bad. i think the best approach is to read her mostly normally but keep in mind she can and often does stuff as town which most people find scummy. it's a hard balance to strike because it's not like the meta is super reliable at all but i don't think reading her normally is that likely to work either

it's probably worth noting that roden said earlier he townreads marci for slaying, which means scum marci is more likely to go out of her way to slay in this game?

regardless i still think the way she's gone about just pushing cakez and calling out fl as weird after he spammed is probably +town for her because, like, her posts don't feel guarded to me i guess?

i'd be interested to hear why devil is town - i'm not really feeling that right now. i'd also be interested to hear why i am town given i was like hounding snivy or something yesterday. (apparently, the american shorthair cat might be the closest equivalent, given how adept it is at hunting mice. that's interesting right?)

I agree with almost all of this. I was a bit hesitant to give my meta read on Marci since it would let her know what to emulate as scum to get town read, but I don't think she'd be able to fake her tone convincingly. She hasn't sounded any different since I mentioned it and her actions still point to her being town this game, so I don't want to vote her.

As for Devil, I gave my reasons for town leaning them earlier in 656.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don’t have any lingering questions atm about meow town.
I also have csf town if I were to order reads. But they are in a null area in my head if that makes sense. I kind of just nod along to their posting because it looks and sounds good not that I necessarily agree with what’s being said. I’ve come across this before where CSF was town but I don’t know if it’s CSF!town indicative or CSF indicative. Would not elim today though.

Disagree on Drew’s hydra, if I had another vote it’s there.

This comes off a bit like you want to dissuade FL from townreading me, but if you tr me anyway, why bother writing it... am I missing something?

[Deal With The Devil]

Also also Alianna defended cakes again with Marci pushing there in some capacity. I get hydra dissonance but I think the falloff would have been discussed at some point between you two.

This is a good point

It's really not. I said this...

bcuz hes scum

I'll rephrase then, why do you still think he's scum?
If it's the same stuff as before, then I'll just agree to disagree because I don't find any of that scummy.

- Alianna

...and I did have a slight townlean on Cakez at the time, but it was mostly "this stuff that marci finds scummy is not scummy." I never had a substantive TR there.
I then dropped off the face of the earth for all of yesterday (here and in hydra chat) and Drew pushed Cakez for completely unrelated posts that I hadn't even read yet because I wasn't around yesterday. I'm not saying people should have known I wasn't around or anything, but I was never TRing Cakez all that strongly and the posts being referenced are completely different.
I have actually come around to the idea of scum!Cakez, but now it seems the push there is fading. I'll see where Drew wants to vote.

- Alianna

[camelCasedSnivy]

What’s everyone’s case on Penguin? I don’t see much anything AI, and it feels like they got pushed for their pop in a while back, which I didn’t feel anything inherently wrong with.

There were 2 things extrmely early that pinged scum to me

I do agree that most of their posts then on are NAI but my vote also served as an omgus

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Also also Alianna defended cakes again with Marci pushing there in some capacity. I get hydra dissonance but I think the falloff would have been discussed at some point between you two.

This is a good point

It's really not. I said this...

bcuz hes scum

I'll rephrase then, why do you still think he's scum?
If it's the same stuff as before, then I'll just agree to disagree because I don't find any of that scummy.

- Alianna

...and I did have a slight townlean on Cakez at the time, but it was mostly "this stuff that marci finds scummy is not scummy." I never had a substantive TR there.
I then dropped off the face of the earth for all of yesterday (here and in hydra chat) and Drew pushed Cakez for completely unrelated posts that I hadn't even read yet because I wasn't around yesterday. I'm not saying people should have known I wasn't around or anything, but I was never TRing Cakez all that strongly and the posts being referenced are completely different.
I have actually come around to the idea of scum!Cakez, but now it seems the push there is fading. I'll see where Drew wants to vote.

- Alianna

All right

I do remember other instances of hydra dissonance as well though, and while there is always going to be some hydra dissonance due to both heads not being online at the same time, I feel like hydras that don't talk to each other are going to be more likely to be scum based on my own experiences in hydras

[Roden]

I feel like it's a complete waste of time talking to you since you just called my cancelled Penguin push scummy then admitted you haven't even read a Penguin post

I meant to answer the questions/concerns last night, but then got tired and the bed called my name(530 am wake up call).

Just seemed over the top to me and trying to find any angle to discredit FL. I hate when someones defense is finding even the tiniest of smoking guns, and I get getting upset(town or scum). But I also feel Cakez showed signs of frustration being run up as scum, even if he doesn't agree with the reasoning......trust me I have been there.

And I came after FL initially because I thought I could suss him out a bit, and it was probably more his back and forth with Cakez tbh, but I feel pretty good that I am seeing townFL.

-Drew

It seems really early for Cakez to suffer "caught for the wrong reasons" syndrome. I think he could just be flustered by Leaf's pressure.

[Roden]

What’s everyone’s case on Penguin? I don’t see much anything AI, and it feels like they got pushed for their pop in a while back, which I didn’t feel anything inherently wrong with.

Penguin's getting pushed for hating Day 1, and possibly his interaction with Cakez.

[meowmeow]

i think marci hasn't really been scummy, and there have been things i found town indicative. i'm not really interested in pressuring there to get a better read, because i think marci tends to react really badly to pressure and it makes the game messier and isn't necessarily actually helpful (sorry marci)

she's a hard slot to read because she tends to play in a more actively pro-town way as scum but reading her that way just means if she tries to like play to her wincon and stuff she gets punished for it which feels bad. i think the best approach is to read her mostly normally but keep in mind she can and often does stuff as town which most people find scummy. it's a hard balance to strike because it's not like the meta is super reliable at all but i don't think reading her normally is that likely to work either

it's probably worth noting that roden said earlier he townreads marci for slaying, which means scum marci is more likely to go out of her way to slay in this game?

I cannot wrap my head around what this is trying to say about how to read marci. Don't pressure her. Read her 'normally' (whatever that is) but

don't

read her 'normally'. What do we do? This explanation makes me feel like we're just not supposed to try.

what do you mean we're not supposed to try? i literally give a read on marci in this exact post. she's difficult to read, and i think i should be able to acknowledge that without it being taken as 'you should never try to read marci'

if you read like any marci game i'm sure you can figure out what i mean by 'reading normally'. this is her last game on the site. in this game she is town and posts a bit normally at the start of the game, drops off a cliff, gives one townread repeatedly without elaborating much, people pressure her for it and she lashes out and it's all very meh. i don't think i'm wrong to say i don't want to pressure her exactly. if i vote for her it'll be because i think she's scum and want her dead, not because i think it'll be productive in itself.

i'm not forcing you to do anything, and i acknowledge the way marci plays is difficult to read, but i'm not going to put on blinders and miseliminate her for the same things over and over again. i think that would be silly. most of how i am going about it is how i'd sort anyone else - which is what i mean by reading normally - but when it comes to overtly scummy things like her cakez read being bleh or her being unnecessarily antagonistic to rile people up or whatever, i don't want to scumread her for that. will this work? who knows! but it's what i'm going to try unless i think there's something better.

[marcistar]

wow i forgot how iconic i was for a min

[Deal With The Devil]

meowmeow is probably the towniest town to ever town.

- Alianna