Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[biancospino]

Votecount 1-XIX

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.

execution votes

SirCakez (2):

Cat Scratch Fever (444), marcistar (492)

Flavor Leaf (2):

RCEnigma (407), SirCakez (758)

camelCasedSnivy (2):

Deal With The Devil (182), Merlyn (982)

Infinity 324 (2):

meowmeow (1044), camelCasedSnivy (1057)

marcistar (1):

Aureal (916)

Deal With The Devil (1):

Infinity 324 (1121)

Not voting (3):

Random Nurse, Roden (1325), Flavor Leaf (1328)

projects votes

Bureau of Investigations (5):

Aureal (110), meowmeow (258), SirCakez (267), Deal With The Devil (565), Flavor Leaf (608)

Intelligentia (5):

Cat Scratch Fever (560), Merlyn (982), RCEnigma (986), Infinity 324 (1195), Roden (1327)

Elected Jury (1):

marcistar (294)

Printing Press (1):

Random Nurse (345)

Sacrifice (1):

camelCasedSnivy (1082)

Not voting (0).

notes

• The Deadline is due in (expired on 2023-08-09 15:40:33).
  
• Random Nurse is being replaced.

[Flavor Leaf]

Damn, meow’s right.

I don’t AtE as scum.

I don’t think I generally have too much AtE overall, though

[Flavor Leaf]

I probably have at some point, though, to varying degrees

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think it's shady as fuck that I say "ok let's do resolve this and do it all today" and then see you get cold feet and then pre-flip six different slots

If I'm scum I don't need to do shit here if you Infinity and Marci are town because you're already planning to flip the three of you by Day 3. Scum!me literally just sits here and does nothing and my hands are clean. I gain literally nothing as scum by inserting myself into this cluster fuck and putting forward a plan to get more info today instead of waiting until Day 3.

No.

We SPECIFICALLY don’t do it all today.

That’s like the whole thing.

And if you are scum with Marci, this is absolutely incorrect that you get nothing.

I gain absolutely nothing from playing like chaotic toxic shit and isn’t stopping you from voting this way

Sacrifice happens at night btw as I understand it, so it's either a night 1 or night 2 sacrifice

But setting that aside for a sec- if the theoretical lim order doesn't change, why does it matter? I didnt understand

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: infinity

[Cat Scratch Fever]

the cakez one was out of panic

792 i was debating if i should turn my vote somewhere else but the only other wagon was marci and even though theyre town i just decided to go back

Why Penguin?

didnt like a couple of their beginning posts and then the rest of their posts were NAI from there on out

Since we have more time now, can you give us a reads list?

town: aureal? leaf
townlean: meow marci
null: everyone and STILL notably devil
scumlean: cakez
scum: penguin snivy

i believe csf you and nurse are in the middle because i barely got an influence from you 3

This list is really strange

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Well I guess the scum reads track if snivy thinks penguin hasn't done anything towny (believable)

Why is aureal so high though?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

@fl yes, i do see why you scumread her, but we just have a very different approach to scumhunting. i'm well aware that we've been townreading a lot of level 0 scummy things, and we do need to decide on a lim pretty soon. we just have a feeling that people like you, meow, or devil are scum controlling the narrative and it's part of why we don't love the biggest wagons right now. we'll finish catching up and decide on a vote tomorrow.

What did you mean by those people are controlling the narrative? I feel like devil & FL have been pushing in different directions from meow

[SirCakez]

VOTE: infinity
I cant figure out what the hell FL is doing here I'll sort it out tomorrow we gotta consolidate on something

[camelCasedSnivy]

Well I guess the scum reads track if snivy thinks penguin hasn't done anything towny (believable)

Why is aureal so high though?

i guess i just really liked how she was trying to coordinate the mech of the setup at the start

her reads of the game seem pretty good too

[RCEnigma]

Who is infinity? Penguin?

[RCEnigma]

Infinity calling for sacrifice and declaring meow their top SR was ??? but my reads are a mess and idk who I want to vote. Will probably have to discuss that with Drew.

- Alianna

I'm gonna stand by the fact that using sacrifice twice this game is mechanically optimal with the information we have and I'm baffled by everyone who thinks it isn't.

-ace

I’m bad with choosing mech stuff can you explain

Lol FL might be town UNVOTE:

[RCEnigma]

i am still cautious of rce. i have more tolerance for him not posting since it was just like, he was active earlier, so it's probably just a temporary thing? maybe town leaning on the wagons like snivy and marci is something i like, but i'd like him to be clearer on if he's voting fl out of principle or if he's like really trying to lim leaf day 1 or whatever

i don't think i ever actually did the rce meta that i was going to do and i probably should

Fwiw I think my stance on FL was guilty until proven innocent which isn’t really that fair but it’s like this.

FL as scum is a lot more dangerous later n the game

A.) because he is hard to pin down to an elim

And

2.) he is the type of scum player that will keep a scum team active and engaged which is equally dangerous for town.

We have possible options to sort him with abilities and maybe stronger ones down the road but I also don’t know what scum has at their disposal so.

I also see a thing he’s doing that I don’t really want to get into but I believe it to be town indicative. Or at least FL!Town indicative.

I’m not going to accuse him of faking reads but I would say take his reads at this point in the game with a grain of salt.

[RCEnigma]

Does sacrifice give us alignment too?

If town, they die and we get $20K.
If scum, no effect. So yes, we do get the alignment.

- Alianna

Okay. Cool

Let’s sacrifice me, and fade one of Marcistar, RCE or Infinity,

We then use an investigative down the line on the remaining of the 2.

This limits scum power tonight, gives us bonus cash, and gets a fade I think has scum energy

I’d argue against a lim on Marci probably 90% of the time here. I haven’t read much of infinity so we can 50/50 there and FL can give me the oops post in dead lobby.

[RCEnigma]

My list of wouldn’t lim today is meow, Marci, CSF, snivy, roden…..probably FL.

[Merlyn]

I kinda liked flavor proposing himself as the sacrifice. It wouldn't be very easy to weasel out of that one, I think, unless only scum were in it and even then they'd be outed I think? I guess I'll keep reading to see if he sticks with this proposal though

What do you think about this if you've caught up? It's the only thing I really took note of in either argument that went on. My impression was that FL was offering to sac himself tonight, but from the argument he had with Roden it looks like he's saying he never meant for it to be tonight.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I kinda liked flavor proposing himself as the sacrifice. It wouldn't be very easy to weasel out of that one, I think, unless only scum were in it and even then they'd be outed I think? I guess I'll keep reading to see if he sticks with this proposal though

What do you think about this if you've caught up? It's the only thing I really took note of in either argument that went on. My impression was that FL was offering to sac himself tonight, but from the argument he had with Roden it looks like he's saying he never meant for it to be tonight.

I think it's towny. I think FL didn't realize sacrifice was at night instead of during the day, and didn't want to be the first flipped because he wouldn't get a chance to solve with a flip

I think this is what a lot of the misunderstanding between him and Roden might've stemmed from. Otherwise I have no idea what that was all about

I guess I want to know if that sacrifice offer was conditional on him scum reading Marci because he ended up townreading there I think. Still think it was towny to bring it up in the first place though

[SirCakez]

ok so about fl and cakez;

I don't think this is not how town FL would be reacting here
You're literally going right into crazy accusations and trying to start a huge war/argument with me with a very bs claim that my vote on you was forced when if you read like any of the last five pages you'd know that I've been looking for someone to vote/suspect for a while now. Cmon that's just so wack.

i wasn't expecting to agree with fl here, especially since he doesn't agree with himself anymore apparently, but like... i think there's a valid concern here that isn't addressed. it makes sense that your threshold for 'scummy thing' is lower, but like, what's your thought process here that makes you think low initiative -> scum for fl specifically? i admit to not having played with him for a while, but from what i've seen so far this game, i'm highly doubtful he's changed at all for years; he delights in being scum and messing around with people and being exceptionally active, right?

and like... honestly my problem with fl's posts there wasn't that he had too little initiative, but too much. the defense on snivy going to the point of accusing people of hounding him so quickly was pretty bizarre to me, and as i said, he went harder than he needed to. so i'd like to at least hear more about the thought process behind this push

i don't really get devil's push on 786 either which seems fine

I know he pulls all that stuff as scum but my fear is/was that he was looking for an opening to exploit before doing so. And I kinda get the feeling I was right on that because he immediately attacked me as soon as I poked him and then said he was "faking" it and now he's on this marci thing, it just doesn't feel organic at all. It could just be FL being FL but I'm not getting any good vibes.

[Aureal]

VOTE: Infinity 324

Not sure why I didn't get around to that yesterday, guess the whole explosion put that out of mind for a bit.

[Infinity 324]

@fl yes, i do see why you scumread her, but we just have a very different approach to scumhunting. i'm well aware that we've been townreading a lot of level 0 scummy things, and we do need to decide on a lim pretty soon. we just have a feeling that people like you, meow, or devil are scum controlling the narrative and it's part of why we don't love the biggest wagons right now. we'll finish catching up and decide on a vote tomorrow.

What did you mean by those people are controlling the narrative? I feel like devil & FL have been pushing in different directions from meow

one or more scum players is having an outsized influence on the narrative is probably a better way to put it.

[Infinity 324]

Sacrificing me Day 2 if I’m wrong on the fade.

That’s already been set in place.

Seems like you want to keep the Chaos, Roden

this makes zero sense, it certainly hasn't been "set in place", i think flavor knows people aren't going to take him up on this

[Infinity 324]

given the effort he's put in to control the narrative if town here i'd be very surprised if he's actually ok with dying

i don't understand why we're compromising on someone who has just replaced in and is very active, even if you don't think i obvtowned already it will probably be easy to read me at some point

[Infinity 324]

Day 2 Sacrifice is BAD. It's just mechanically bad. We have to either forgo a main development project or a Bureau project in order to Sac tomorrow and it sets us too far back in gaining town power.

wait can you explain that? from where i'm sitting, sac

is

the main form of town power that we have.

[Infinity 324]

fwiw i think it's pretty likely that scum don't have a regular nightkill for balance purposes. maybe they have their own projects, would make sense since the mod hinted at them being able to use money.

[Infinity 324]

i think roden is probably my top townread

ooh interesting why