Micro 1091 - Prism v. 1L Year [Game Over]

[GuiltyLion]

although Pooky this feels like a bit of a strong defense when it's not clear to me what your read on me is

your pocket request has been received and will be evaluated in 1-3 Business Days

[GuiltyLion]

like gls thoughts on catboi exactly mirror my own. so they make sense to me. i just dont bother to question dflors townread cuz i think its tactically bad.

are you saying here that my questioning dunn was tactically bad? what does that mean

[GuiltyLion]

I completely agree with Luke's 496. catboi's 495 is an attempt to frame my early elle pressure as inherently "bad faith" if elle is town. I also don't believe catboi had any issues with the pressure on elle at the time

VOTE: catboi

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

questioning Dflor's townread on Catboi introduces doubt into the overall opinion of Catboi's alignment

it's more tactically sound to just place absolute faith in him so mafia think everyone thinks catboi is town thus he gets nightkilled and if he doesn't get nightkilled we can talk about why that is like tomorrow or some shit

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

or i guess you could pressure him and fight him or whatever that's always a fun time

[GuiltyLion]

Night actions/claims will potentially help clear you up

this also feels like kind of a weird point in the context of why he's not taking a stance on either of us

what happens if we get to D2/D3 and we're both alive and Luke claims roleblocked or that he didn't get a useful result? if we're TvT and mafia have counterplay to a tracker then the dynamic could be intentionally prolonged as long as they want

idk this kind of like "I don't know, we'll see what happens" attitude rubs me the wrong way when catboi's also not leading or not advocating for much. I'd be more inclined to buy the indecisiveness if it felt like catboi was actively trying to sort me

[catboi]

Night actions/claims will potentially help clear you up

this also feels like kind of a weird point in the context of why he's not taking a stance on either of us

what happens if we get to D2/D3 and we're both alive and Luke claims roleblocked or that he didn't get a useful result? if we're TvT and mafia have counterplay to a tracker then the dynamic could be intentionally prolonged as long as they want

idk this kind of like "I don't know, we'll see what happens" attitude rubs me the wrong way when catboi's also not leading or not advocating for much. I'd be more inclined to buy the indecisiveness if it felt like catboi was actively trying to sort me

okay and eventually we massclaim and decide whether luke's role makes sense in the setup or not

or maybe mafia do just NK him and then he's resolved that way. You're proposing a worst case hypothetical but that's not always what happens and even in the event it does we just see if his role fits in the setup?

[GuiltyLion]

I think Luke probably resolves himself most of the time (assuming he's town) but if you see us as a TvS situation then I don't understand why that doesn't lead to you suspecting and voting me. like FYPOV there should be no real downside to flipping me but instead it feels like you're trying to keep your options open or simply float an idea of TvS / scum!GL to wait and see what the reception is

[catboi]

ok venge is over, I can post in actual detail now

I think Luke probably resolves himself most of the time (assuming he's town) but if you see us as a TvS situation then I don't understand why that doesn't lead to you suspecting and voting me. like FYPOV there should be no real downside to flipping me but instead it feels like you're trying to keep your options open or simply float an idea of TvS / scum!GL to wait and see what the reception is

h
I mean, I wasn't going to vote you when you were not here, and as explained I was not that sold on the case against you. I also initially did not particularly townread luke so if I assume A) he might be mafia and B) he's not likely getting voted out then it doesn't make sense to vote you. I think he could be town now but it still makes sense to me to vote someone else I think is scummy.

As for me "not actively trying to sort you" - you weren't here, dude. What are you expecting me to do when you're not posting in the game? Why do you think I didn't just vote you? I mean, probably because I'm still trying to sort you?

[catboi]

I also honestly think ydrasse's defense of elle comes across as informed if Luke is in fact town, but I've gotten pushback on that read and don't feel like fighting hard.

[catboi]

or i guess you could pressure him and fight him or whatever that's always a fun time

<3

[catboi]

{pooky, bell, meuh}
{cakez}
{Luke, GL}
{Dunn, Ydrasse}

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I also honestly think ydrasse's defense of elle comes across as informed if Luke is in fact town, but I've gotten pushback on that read and don't feel like fighting hard.

I believe in this read but I don't want to push ydra on her birthday

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

man where's cakeboi I want to fight with him over something stupid I miss doing that

[catboi]

I think that I am convincing myself that GL is town, and that catboi is positioning to eliminate him after killing me for being a tracker.

Both because he linked the two of us together in a way that seems disingenuous, but also in the same post of doing that just side stepped eliminating inside the pair entirely for the day.

Especially when reading 502, and his pivot into Dunn feels toothless, like it was just The Best Option Left. Not like he even thought his thoughts on Dunn were Good.

Luke, I want to revisit this. You're scumreading me here because my vote is "toothless", because I lack passion behind it.

Now, GL gets a pass for this because he doesn't know my scumgame and is making the common fallacy that me lacking energy is a scumtell. But you - you've seen my scumgame. Do you think I, at any time as scum, come across as dispassionate? As lacking the will to put conviction behind a push?

[Lukewarm]

I think that I am convincing myself that GL is town, and that catboi is positioning to eliminate him after killing me for being a tracker.

Both because he linked the two of us together in a way that seems disingenuous, but also in the same post of doing that just side stepped eliminating inside the pair entirely for the day.

Especially when reading 502, and his pivot into Dunn feels toothless, like it was just The Best Option Left. Not like he even thought his thoughts on Dunn were Good.

Luke, I want to revisit this. You're scumreading me here because my vote is "toothless", because I lack passion behind it.

That is ass backwards from what I actually said lol.

The toothless vote on Dunn was not the issue. My issue was (1) seeing you link my alignment to someone else, and not liking the explanation on why you did that. And (2) seeing you not pursue that joint read, in a way that I saw as strategically advantageous to you if you were scum.

The toothless part was more how I thought about whether it made sense for town!you, who genuinely believed (1), to still do (2). And I realized I would have been more understanding of that, had you been passionate about the Dunn read as well. But you weren't.

But you - you've seen my scumgame. Do you think I, at any time as scum, come across as dispassionate? As lacking the will to put conviction behind a push?

I am fully aware that you could fake a passionate scum read. But, given the overall energy level of the thread (or lack there of), I do not know that you would have any reason to feel like you needed to put one together, or that doing so would have helped you at the time.

Your vote on Dunn, when ignoring your stated position on me/GL, was generally inoffensive.

[Lukewarm]

ebwop

I think that I am convincing myself that GL is town, and that catboi is positioning to eliminate him after killing me for being a tracker.

Both because he linked the two of us together in a way that seems disingenuous, but also in the same post of doing that just side stepped eliminating inside the pair entirely for the day.

Especially when reading 502, and his pivot into Dunn feels toothless, like it was just The Best Option Left. Not like he even thought his thoughts on Dunn were Good.

Luke, I want to revisit this. You're scumreading me here because my vote is "toothless", because I lack passion behind it.

That is ass backwards from what I actually said lol.

The toothless vote on Dunn was not the issue. My issue was (1) seeing you link my alignment to someone else, and not liking the explanation on why you did that. And (2) seeing you not pursue that joint read, in a way that I saw as strategically advantageous to you if you were scum.

The toothless part was more how I thought about whether it made sense for town!you, who genuinely believed (1), to still do (2). And I realized I would have been more understanding of that, had you been passionate about the Dunn read as well. But you weren't.

But you - you've seen my scumgame. Do you think I, at any time as scum, come across as dispassionate? As lacking the will to put conviction behind a push?

I am fully aware that you could fake a passionate scum read. But, given the overall energy level of the thread (or lack there of), I do not know that you would have any reason to feel like you needed to put one together, or that doing so would have helped you at the time.

Your vote on Dunn, when ignoring your stated position on me/GL, was generally inoffensive.

[GuiltyLion]

As for me "not actively trying to sort you" - you weren't here, dude. What are you expecting me to do when you're not posting in the game? Why do you think I didn't just vote you? I mean, probably because I'm still trying to sort you?

are you primarily a real time interactions kind of person, I feel like I've been around and posting

I'm also not sure what to make of your 506, it's fair to state that you're not confident in your read but also the best way to catch scum is when they bullshit their votes and scumreads and so if I squint hard enough I could see this post as a dodge out of fabricating a scumread on a townie. why should I believe that your scumread there is genuine

[Bell]

{pooky, bell, meuh}
{cakez}
{Luke, GL}
{Dunn, Ydrasse}

Mmmm

[catboi]

I think that I am convincing myself that GL is town, and that catboi is positioning to eliminate him after killing me for being a tracker.

Both because he linked the two of us together in a way that seems disingenuous, but also in the same post of doing that just side stepped eliminating inside the pair entirely for the day.

Especially when reading 502, and his pivot into Dunn feels toothless, like it was just The Best Option Left. Not like he even thought his thoughts on Dunn were Good.

Luke, I want to revisit this. You're scumreading me here because my vote is "toothless", because I lack passion behind it.

That is ass backwards from what I actually said lol.

The toothless vote on Dunn was not the issue. My issue was (1) seeing you link my alignment to someone else, and not liking the explanation on why you did that. And (2) seeing you not pursue that joint read, in a way that I saw as strategically advantageous to you if you were scum.

The toothless part was more how I thought about whether it made sense for town!you, who genuinely believed (1), to still do (2). And I realized I would have been more understanding of that, had you been passionate about the Dunn read as well. But you weren't.

But you - you've seen my scumgame. Do you think I, at any time as scum, come across as dispassionate? As lacking the will to put conviction behind a push?

I am fully aware that you could fake a passionate scum read. But, given the overall energy level of the thread (or lack there of), I do not know that you would have any reason to feel like you needed to put one together, or that doing so would have helped you at the time.

Your vote on Dunn, when ignoring your stated position on me/GL, was generally inoffensive.

Okay then

I stand entirely behind my logic that even if I think there's scum between you, the better game move is voting outside you.

[Bell]

Dunn, I will move on you if you don’t suggest a better alternative in a better way.

I say as if power is something I have over anyone.

[catboi]

As for me "not actively trying to sort you" - you weren't here, dude. What are you expecting me to do when you're not posting in the game? Why do you think I didn't just vote you? I mean, probably because I'm still trying to sort you?

are you primarily a real time interactions kind of person, I feel like I've been around and posting

I'm also not sure what to make of your 506, it's fair to state that you're not confident in your read but also the best way to catch scum is when they bullshit their votes and scumreads and so if I squint hard enough I could see this post as a dodge out of fabricating a scumread on a townie. why should I believe that your scumread there is genuine

Not primarily real time, more of a "wait and see" player. You were absent for a day and the most relevant stuff was seeing how you would respond to luke and what you'd do after that. I certainly don't feel like me voting you would have helped anything and I had nothing in particular I wanted to ask you.

I dunno, you're free to choose to not believe me if you want. I'm not that worried because I don't think I'll actually go over today. If you actually want to figure out if my read is genuine, ask me questions about it?

{pooky, bell, meuh}
{cakez}
{Luke, GL}
{Dunn, Ydrasse}

Mmmm

Your annoyance at cakez and his vote was the thing that scared me a little bit on him because I can see him doing the overtly scummy thing as scum b/c he just doesn't care. However I've committed myself to shielding him for today, even if it makes me look foolish.

[catboi]

Dunn, I will move on you if you don’t suggest a better alternative in a better way.

I say as if power is something I have over anyone.

[Dunnstral]

Your line of questioning with Dunn did not appear to lead to you voicing any thoughts on Dunn's alignment wrt his Catboi read, nor did you seem to argue that Catboi was scum. It was just "but scum catboi COULD do that too, so you should not town read him." And that being the where that conversation led, left me with that impression.

I also, just, in general do not trust that sort of argument as genuine, because it seems to set a precedent that in order to think someone is more likely to be town, you must believe that their actions could not be replicated. And that is a very silly bar to set for town reads.

on this - I don't think I really had a lot of substantial thoughts on Dunn's alignment, at least not worth sharing. I felt most of his reads seemed artificial and formulaic, outside of when he had the same take as I did on Ydra. That's what is kinda hanging me up as I don't see the scum motivation for that read if Ydra is town, and the fact that he had the same reasoning regarding her scum meta felt mindmeld-y. but the catboi read was concerningly easy and I was trying to suss out to what degree he actually believes in it. I also generally don't like that he seemed reluctant to put down a vote on Cakez

I've been unsure of how to feel re:catboi as well but assuming you're telling the truth here I am thinking he's probably mafia

You quoted me giving a summary of Ydrasse and SirCakez. Nowhere in the post you had quoted did I suggest that I wanted to vote SirCakez

You made this post:

Ydrasse points against SirCakez:
o Their vote put pressure on Ydrasse at a time when people were considering voting for Ydrasse
o Their interaction with Pooky is suspicious because they avoided talking about the miller claim to "get into the game", and they would do so as town
o They are being obtuse in their interaction with Ydrasse and missing the point on purpose, including misrepping what Ydrasse is saying


SirCakez points against Ydrasse:
o Their interactions with elle (1L) on page 8 are informed
o Their responses to SirCakez's questions are bad and Ydrasse would have better arguments as town

what are your thoughts about a Cakez vote?

And I don't think the post you quoted is showing suspicion on SirCakez.

I think you used my response to you asking if I would vote SirCakez as your reason to point towards me suspecting SirCakez after the fact, which doesn't make sense.

[Bell]

Please don’t,
Cakez is perfectly able to be a clumsy misanthrope as either alignment. I know this because I’ve killed him when he’s been either and been confused.

I still am confused.

Pedit: your pocketing is noted igmeoy *pockets snoopy img for collection*