Micro 1091 - Prism v. 1L Year [Game Over]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It'd be nice if I knew the first thing about law. youtube videos are not helpful, or the ones I watch aren't terribly so.
Stages of trial and so on.
Been nice reading about some of the cases.
Though, I'm, not really sure how they caught the dude that lit that ship on fire. He could just deny it, unless there was some sort of alibi issue with the rest of the people on board. But it sounds slike some people died in that fire.

I binge watched 7 seasons of suits since this game went into signups

[Bell]

I think you're developing reads more openly than you usually do on day one, I'd like to know why.

[Bell]

I vaguely feel that Pooky has committed some sort of mega crime by not binging Law & order (which I only know by rep, I won't ever watch it) and instead did suits (which I also have not and will never watch) to prepare for this game.

[Bell]

I think in the world of politics the most convenient answer is that the scum team is in SC, ydrasse, Lukewarm.

But I’m not really here for that.

Oh and I guess GL is in there too.

[Dunnstral]

I think you're developing reads more openly than you usually do on day one, I'd like to know why.

Yes this is true. I feel I have more to go off of this game, more meaningful information due to the 2 claims and having 2 townreads aside from that. Since it is a micro there are less players so that is more meaningful as well.

The reason I don't usually give reads early is that usually the early game feels like banter and/or talking in circles about the same points. And this game developed differently IMO.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I vaguely feel that Pooky has committed some sort of mega crime by not binging Law & order (which I only know by rep, I won't ever watch it) and instead did suits (which I also have not and will never watch) to prepare for this game.

I'm no boomer

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think you're developing reads more openly than you usually do on day one, I'd like to know why.

This is a court of law sir

[Meuh]

VOTE: Catboi
Recent posting has given me a general bad vibe that I couldn't pinpoint, on reflection I'd say it's because his posting feels... impersonal?
It's very "this is what I'd do in this situation", talking about broader concepts and logic, but disconnected from the game. 539 is a defence that operates in this way, the focus down on passion here as a specific idea and the rebuttal to that feels like the angle scum trying to find holes in an attack would go. Catboi's wording here and his argument here isn't about this game, it's a general statement that for him, lacking energy isn't a scumtell (which is likely true)! I think this points to a scum mentality. The narrative Lukewarm presents is largely unquestioned, it's the specific idea of no energy = scum that he would immediately see as incorrect, as that's something he always believes in. But he's not trying to really understand Lukewarm here still, or at least it doesn't feel like it.
544 shows the contrast between Luke actively trying to figure out what's going on in the game while Catboi clings onto logical ideas that exist on a larger scale.
It's a general mentality that stays true with all of Catboi's posts on the most recent pages. The posts are disconnected from the game, arguments revolve around this broader logic that he probably does genuinely believe in, and statements are overly tied down to a generic view of the correct or incorrect approach to the game.

[catboi]

Lol

[catboi]

Why does that make me mafia, though?

[catboi]

Broadly speaking you have a tendency to scumread people for what amount to essentially vibe-based reasons, things like feeling "stiff" or "unnatural" or "impersonal" that relate mostly mostly to semantics and how a player presents themselves, but that has very little to do with actual scum motivations, and reflects more on you have a personal dislike for people's wording/phrasing. I think it has basically almost nothing to do with anything actually alignment indicative and is probably =random at best. I find it frustrating to be on the receiving end of this repeatedly.

[SirCakez]

I do not think that I am generally very good at convincing people I am town once I am on the "back foot" as pooky put it, and the thread starts being about me (to be fair, this is probably as true if I were scum as it is when I am town).

And seeing as how I hit E-1 already, and I don't plan on throwing myself all into "proving myself" or what ever, so I think I'll just claim.

I am a 2-shot Tracker.

So, yall can discuss if yall are killing me for claiming, or letting me live for being a PR, and decide on that basis.

And I'll just skip the hassle of trying so hard if I am dying today.

ugh

[SirCakez]

catboi I want to say is town but I'm worried he may be trying to pocket me so idk. Wouldn't vote rn but definitely not safe town

look i'm just trying to save you from being misyeeted for once in your career

ok well I appreciate you if you're town here <3
but if you're scum

[SirCakez]

Ah, Pooky cult counter, numbers go up.
It's so fucking weird that he's probably not scum this game because of the opening miller claim, and yet I cannot shake it. I want to vig the bear.

anyway, anyway,
hmm, 2 day tracker. I don't super care.

I find catboi's take on Luke's interactions with the tvt thing surprisingly persuasive. I'm kind of wondering about how they're addressing push back though. They respond differently to pressure than I do though.

I am impressed Cakeboy did in fact piss me off by leaving Luke at E-1. I understand the difference in philosophy in mafia, but come the fuck on.
*ahem* don't worry. it has nothing to do with the game.
Probably. I kind of think Cakez would see it being a bigger problem leaving his vote there than if he didn't.

Then again, he did.

Cakez, Machismo is not a good approach to get explanations or answers for questions you have and I'm confused why you say I'm correct that there was machismo in that post, while also somehow expecting an answer to that question.

i don't know what to think about this post

[SirCakez]

man where's cakeboi I want to fight with him over something stupid I miss doing that

why'd you claim miller i can't do anything like this

[SirCakez]

Your line of questioning with Dunn did not appear to lead to you voicing any thoughts on Dunn's alignment wrt his Catboi read, nor did you seem to argue that Catboi was scum. It was just "but scum catboi COULD do that too, so you should not town read him." And that being the where that conversation led, left me with that impression.

I also, just, in general do not trust that sort of argument as genuine, because it seems to set a precedent that in order to think someone is more likely to be town, you must believe that their actions could not be replicated. And that is a very silly bar to set for town reads.

on this - I don't think I really had a lot of substantial thoughts on Dunn's alignment, at least not worth sharing. I felt most of his reads seemed artificial and formulaic, outside of when he had the same take as I did on Ydra. That's what is kinda hanging me up as I don't see the scum motivation for that read if Ydra is town, and the fact that he had the same reasoning regarding her scum meta felt mindmeld-y. but the catboi read was concerningly easy and I was trying to suss out to what degree he actually believes in it. I also generally don't like that he seemed reluctant to put down a vote on Cakez

I've been unsure of how to feel re:catboi as well but assuming you're telling the truth here I am thinking he's probably mafia

You quoted me giving a summary of Ydrasse and SirCakez. Nowhere in the post you had quoted did I suggest that I wanted to vote SirCakez

You made this post:

Ydrasse points against SirCakez:
o Their vote put pressure on Ydrasse at a time when people were considering voting for Ydrasse
o Their interaction with Pooky is suspicious because they avoided talking about the miller claim to "get into the game", and they would do so as town
o They are being obtuse in their interaction with Ydrasse and missing the point on purpose, including misrepping what Ydrasse is saying


SirCakez points against Ydrasse:
o Their interactions with elle (1L) on page 8 are informed
o Their responses to SirCakez's questions are bad and Ydrasse would have better arguments as town

what are your thoughts about a Cakez vote?

And I don't think the post you quoted is showing suspicion on SirCakez.

I think you used my response to you asking if I would vote SirCakez as your reason to point towards me suspecting SirCakez after the fact, which doesn't make sense.

this is a good Dunn post - 523 doesn't compute. The "being reluctant to put down a vote on Cakez" point is bad because GL is guilty of the exact same thing. I also don't really believe that GL had that sort of nullscummish read on Dunn from his earlier posts.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[SirCakez]

Except of whether Sircakez is or is not a misanthrope. Which is the actual case before the court. And this mafia game is just a pretext for that.

i do like the show House so maybe there's something there

[SirCakez]

kinda wack that Ydra went AWOL as soon as wagon attention moved elsewhere

[GuiltyLion]

kinda wack that Ydra went AWOL as soon as wagon attention moved elsewhere

... was it not her birthday yesterday?

this is opportunistic shade
and it also feels like your vote on me is just a chainsaw for catboi

[GuiltyLion]

elle (1L) + Ydrasse, or elle (1L) + SirCakez for the scumteam, as post 146 quoted above does not seem like both mafia, and elle (1L) does seem the most suspect to me right now based on how I've seen mafia in this position act before.

I believe that Ydrasse is usually more charismatic as mafia early. Maybe. I feel like I make this argument a lot in games but I don't remember how that has went for me.

@Dunn re:548- the combination of these two posts, not the one I quoted, is what made me think you should be voting Cakez if you were acting on your reads

I didn't post "hm, Dunn seems like he should be scumreading/voting Cakez, but he's not, I'm going to ask him about whether he'd vote Cakez to test him" ahead of time because that would obviously shape any reaction or post that I got from you

[GuiltyLion]

I find it frustrating to be on the receiving end of this repeatedly.

this doesn't feel true given your prior two posts

like if you're actually frustrated is the first response really just "Lol"

[SirCakez]

kinda wack that Ydra went AWOL as soon as wagon attention moved elsewhere

... was it not her birthday yesterday?

this is opportunistic shade
and it also feels like your vote on me is just a chainsaw for catboi

oh right that did get mentioned
ok yeah that's not valid

well you'd be surprised to learn I also am considering voting Catboi

[GuiltyLion]

that is surprising yes

[catboi]

I find it frustrating to be on the receiving end of this repeatedly.

this doesn't feel true given your prior two posts

like if you're actually frustrated is the first response really just "Lol"

I tried to find an appropriate gif or reaction image to say you're reaching but couldn't find any, so instead you get this post where I say this is a reach.

well you'd be surprised to learn I also am considering voting Catboi

Why?

[catboi]

I think GL accusing Cakez of chainsawing me is moving into "hard to fathom as being the real belief of a town player" territory. It's enough in the territory that I would be okay with voting him today, because his arguments have gotten continually worse, and look more like he's trying to "score points" with every attack rather than attempting to discern a perspective or actually investigate alignments. (I think even if he's town the way he's playing right is outright anti-town, not because he's reading me wrong but because of him tunneling in a single-minded fashion where everything someone does only adds further fuel to the fire. I think if allowed to live he will harm the town regardless of his alignment. That's simply how I've come to view this type of play. I've been guilty of it many times in the past (no pun intended), and part of the reason I've been playing restrained this game is to try to curb that tendency. I think he absolutely should not be allowed leadership/agency in this game).

Luke is simply mad I dared to suspect him. He is probably town and gets resolved mechanically either way. I wish he would not play so emotionally, but at his core he's still the same newbie I flew off the handle at for deathtunneling me a couple years ago.

I think Ydrasse's contributions to the game have overall been minimal to non-existant. Her main reads have been to defend elle for getting flustered, and OMGUSing Cakez. The elle read is not really logical because scum get flustered all the time, and instead comes across as white-knighting a player who was an early push. The Cakez read is entirely reactive and can easily be scum motivated. Beyond that, she shaded me for suggesting I'd be okay voting elle, and then shaded luke for calling her town. This is all play that is merely reacting to major events going on in the thread and responding to them, it takes very little effort. It doesn't feel investigative, like she's actually parsing the game and trying to figure anything out - rather she's simply commenting on big things or things that mention her. I think she is actively procrastinating on contributing to the thread and this is more likely to come from scum who is struggling to manufacture content.

I think the reasons that have been given for her being town are not very good. Guiltylion is suggesting her feeling concerned about the thread vibes being against her is a towntell. I think this is not convincing because it's ultimately a "vibe-based" read that is related t attitude, and that thing can be faked, or maybe she was just legitimately feeling threatened. Dunn says she is more charismatic as mafia early - again, this is a vibe-based read that is really not convincing. Luke is town reading her because she made a joke on page 1 and because she is defending his slot. I think this is obviously terrible reasoning n face value. Early game gutreads are not very likely to be accurate, and townreading someone simply for defending you means you are highly likely to fall into a pocket. Scum defend players who otherwise look to be uncontested wagons all the time. I think he is biased because he disliked being run up so quickly upon entering the game (which to be fair is an entirely understandable response), and so has latched on to anyone he saw as being protective of him.

That's my reasoning for Ydrasse being scum, it could be wrong, I don't think my read accuracy is particularly special. I would still prefer to flip her or GL if I'm voted out today.

---

It's very hard for me to explain how I'm reading pooky but I simply get the feel he is being genuine every time he posts, the way he spoke about me felt unrestrained and like it was coming from a town perspective. Similarly, Bell getting irritated with Cakez for the E-1 thing felt real and he keeps making his contributions that are slightly snarky but insightful. I buy what he's doing as town motivated

Meuh slightly less confident on but nothing she's posted has felt like t was not from a genuine perspective to me, and I still lean on the miller claim as being +town.

Dunn I had more as potential scum for POE reasons and some fear he may have been buddying me, but historically I'm not great at reading him. I thought there was simply a chance he was being overlooked.

As for Cakez, I wish I had an answer for why he felt like voting me before writing this post but I still felt like the response he had to pressure was towny in terms of how he was seemingly challenging people about voting him. I am also historically not great at reading him so my confidence level is not high, but that is the best I can manage. I think if Ydrasse flips mafia he is basically always town and should be treated as an innocent child.