Newbie 2129 - Postgame

[Cook]

OKAY IM SORRY I WAS WORKING UNTIL LATE AAAAAAA

[Cook]

ooh nice a pagetop

[Cook]

this is pretty much a coinflip solve. we can take our time with it i think. it’s my job to make that coin as weighted as possible in favor of a scum lim

ten more days to figure out if the flame of the newbies is snuffed out or gets to burn down in peace

[Cook]

er. seven days

[TheHoldSteady]

blind three way elo in the very last newbie game

[TheHoldSteady]

wouldn't smiley have killed me

[TheHoldSteady]

Smiley is 100% town

scum smiley would've easily won if he killed me and left leek here

ugh this is going to be hard

[SmileyDude1]

One down, one to go. Let's finish the comeback. Thought i'd start by looking through the interactions between HEM/Seven and the Hold and CCGeek slots, looking for anything of note that I may have missed.

TheHoldSteady & SevenEyes/humaneatingmonkey

Man. I'm just struggling to get my brain to work here.

Spoiler: BrassHerald

All posts up to #113 seemed to be just RVS stage light joking. Seemed to come in with a loose and relaxed attitude, but otherwise not seeing much to go off of there.

I already said #113 was sus and upon rereading I’m still gonna stand by that.

So far MagicalSteve seems to be the town leader

Also, this feels like an attempt at pocketing.

Hmmm, guess we're not in RVS anymore. Shame it was fun while it lasted.

VOTE: Kawaii

This seems like you’re voting without solving to accompany it

Posts #171-173: BrassHerald keeps pushing that "why did you self vote" thing which reminds me of scum looking for an easy target. CCGeek voted Smiley already in #130 and Eyes posted an FoS in #164. So this could be opportunistic of that.

BrassHerald hasn't posted since 173.

Spoiler: SmileyDude1

Okay but actual question, how do we proceed from here?

Given that we're approaching 4 days until deadline we should probably start consolidating so we have time for claims and discussion. I have to leave for work in a second, but i'll be back later to discuss.

I agree

I literally said not to push your self vote and then just agreed with another person on your answer to it being weird.

Commenting on the game state is a normal way to play the game. Weird isn't even a push. It's just weird. Town can be weird.

I think I may have misinterpreted your 154 as saying that both my self-vote and self criticism was weird in isolation when you meant that they were weird put together. The former didn't really make sense since you defended the self-vote earlier, the latter is a fair point

And why are you counting out high princess, the literal one I was agreeing with it being weird with?

My reasoning on this mainly stems that they're suspicion came before I had actually explained my actions and so I understood why my actions up to that point would be seen as weird out of context, the two posts mentioned in 170 came after I had already explained and felt dogpiley (probs not the right word for it, but alas) to me.

Though given the misunderstanding UNVOTE: BrassHerald
VOTE: SevenEyes

So after rereading, I think SmileyDude shows a thorough and articulate thought process and is asking relevant questions. In particular, like posts #146, #169, #186.

Spoiler: SevenEyes

SevenEyes

i feel like the game's still a bit slow atp, since we dont hav much info and we are kinda just resorting to pointing fingers at each other? correct me if im wrong though.

This seems like something an inexperienced town would say.

Yeah so Seven could be town off of that one post but overall is almost completely null to me. With only five posts there just isn’t much there to go off of.

Hold responds positively to an early Seven post though states a nullread on them for the time being , due to low content.

apologies for inactivity. i agree with magicalsteve on this one- after brassheralds vote reached e-1, got unhammered, and you got replaced in, you're really trying to flip the case to immediately target someone else ... idk ... if anything the vibes are off ...

apologies for inactivity. i agree with magicalsteve on this one- after brassheralds vote reached e-1, got unhammered, and you got replaced in, you're really trying to flip the case to immediately target someone else ... idk ... if anything the vibes are off ...

if your slot was at e1 the day before you can and should try to flip the case. it benefits you regardless of alignment.

Seven tries to push The Bulge for attempting to flip the case away from them only to be rebutted by Hold. I think it'd be weird of Hold to publicly cut Seven off like this in the case of them being partnered.

He's had more substansive reads than Seven and BrassHerald does / did, such as post 51

Hold's response to Bulge placing a scumread on CCGeek slot, projects a low opinion on the Seven slot

apologiese for the shoddy formatting lol i dont know how to make text bold

ccgeek: ccg is giving me good vibes so far. i feel like he's actively trying to move the game forward, while also not making every single post super serious and/or accusatory, which is good. generally townlean imo

civil scum: i feel like he hasn't offered much substantial info that can be used to progress the game, but to be fair it is day 1. generally town ish ... but im kind of on the fence.

iamveryhappy: there was quite a lot of discourse about his first post, and tbh i think that might have just been a joke that landed kind of poorly. i feel like he hasn't offered many mafia-relevant posts or tried to progress the game at all, and some of his posts are a bit questionable (like all the stuff about soft claiming). his kind of playstyle is kind of confusing to me because everything is just sort of unclear with him. maybe a slight scum lean?

magical steve: his posts are mostly mafia-related and he's been proactive in voting and making reads on people. how good those reads are or how scummy those posts are though... not sure. immediately targeting iavh's post 1 as a cop claim was kind of weird. i agree with leek saying that steve overreacted a bit to some of the earlier posts that could have just been unserious or suggestions. i'm sitting on the fence.

smileydude: i might have said this before but his self vote was a bit suspicious when it happened. maybe a strange attempt at humour, maybe inherently scummy behaviour... looking back on it i don't know if it was really as weird as i thought it was. null/slight townlean imo

leek: i'm kind of ashamed of myself actually, because leek immediately jumped in and contributed more than i have this entire game, lmao. he's offered some good points that i generally agree with. all of his posts have been mafia-relevant, which is good to see. townread, imo.

the bulge: i'm not getting good vibes from the bulge. their posts are incredibly short and snippy, and the "yuck" post in particular was a weird way to respond to a post about just voting, let alone any post. scumlean, imo. (by the way, ive had to refer to you with they/them in this post, but what are your pronouns?)

theholdsteady: not a whole lot of content his posts either offer relevant opinions/reads on posts or are helpful generally. i'm getting good/neutral vibes. don't really have a whole lot to say abt him, probably townlean atp.

Seven places a town lean on Hold based on vibes, wouldn't agree with their blurb on hold especially given posts like 217 that I mentioned earlier.

Actually, I'm leaning towards Steve at the moment because I like Bulge more than I liked Herald and I don't think the argument for voting SevenEyes is good

Hold states that the argument for voting Seven isn't good and given that the case up to this point was mostly policy based, I think this is fair (I myself had came to the same conclusion)

CS and SevenEyes just feel like LHF lims. What do we even learn if they flip town?

UNVOTE: The Bulge

VOTE: MagicalSteve

This vote places MagicalSteve at E-1. Please declare intention to hammer before voting him again.

Hold votes Steve, saying Seven would be an LHF lim

i did not expect iavh to flip as town doctor, but now that we don't have a doctor, we'll probably have to make our decisions more carefully

Huh. What made you not expect iavh to flip doctor?

Hold poses a question towards Seven. In light of Seven flipping red the above post by Seven is pretty wild, and I think Hold questioning them in this way has the potential to put them in hot water that i'd think Hold would look to avoid if partnered

i did not expect iavh to flip as town doctor, but now that we don't have a doctor, we'll probably have to make our decisions more carefully

that was a weird post

I agree, which is why I asked her to clarify what she meant.

VOTE: SevenEyes

Votes Seven agreeing with Leek that their 452 was weird, first vote on the slot

Everyone has ignored Seven (Geek and Bulge ignored in their posts, Smiley did as well until asked otherwise) except for Leek who is constantly focusing in. It's not adding up. Possible that Seven could be scum with a more experienced player as a partner covering up.

Posits the idea of Seven being partnered with an experienced player.

Seven got replaced by monkey who hasn't really shown any decent activity or progression, felt like they mostly wanted to defend themselves

So weird to me

When I look at Monkey's experience level I just expect so much more you know

His ISO almost reads like he doesn't actually want to be here

Feels like more of a town frustration of the monkey slot coming from Hold here. Not sure if Hold would be brazen enough to criticize an HEM partner in main thread like this (this feels like it'd be more of a scum PT thing to say is what i'm driving at)

that's a big jump though for monkey to be your top2 town reads (and Seven being pretty towny) to wanting to hammer them

Leek do you still think HEM is a better lim than Merlyn? I think there's a good chance she flips scum. I can place either one at e1 in my current position but you've basically become the town leader so I would like to get your up-to-date perspective first

Have stated my concern about Hold potentially choosing Merlyn over HEM day 2 out of potential ulterior motives, though I think if that was the intention he wouldn't ask Leek for their opinion on the matter first. I could see this coming from an HEM/Hold team still with Hold feeling fine with bussing monkey here if Leek agrees with it, though I don't think I see potential for Hold's pivot towards Merlyn day 2 being purely to save HEM anymore

if i want to no effort, i'll just drop a vote on obviously between Smiley and THS

1.FINAL

Votecount 1.FINAL

MagicalSteve (ELIMINATED): iamveryhappy, The Bulge, SmileyDude1, TheHoldSteady, Civil Scum
SmileyDude1 (1): CCGeek
Civil Scum (1): SzmarzLeek

Not Voting (2): SevenEyes, MagicalSteve

With 9 players alive, it took 5 votes to secure an elimination.

i think if i did that, game wouldn't end.

HEM pushes THS here (also alludes to a THS/Me team?)

i was busy. you'll understand if it was your nth mafia game in the newbies as a replacement. see how engaged you will be when you're on the chopping block and you're VT anyway

I read your ISO yesterday and all I thought was that this person doesn't seem like they want to be here at all. So your reason collaborates with that.

Hold finds HEM reasoning for their low engagement yesterday to be reasonable. Not much there that indicates either way to me here (probably could've left it out in retrospect but shrug)

i think we're living in a {smiley, ths/leek} world

Again floats a myself,Hold solve

why not THS?

HEM pushes Hold in an attempt to get Leek to question there read towards them

THS is fine, he didn't hammer me yesterday before i had the chance to claim. that's probably +town

why not THS?

you answered your own question not that long ago

Hold counters HEM here

VOTE: Merlyn

This vote is pretty bad looking

(sort of) mentioned Merlyn once in 552, 694, and then never again before this vote

Accusing Bulge + Merlyn just felt like quietly sliding on the accusations that were already out (that we now have the hindsight were town), meaning 694 aged poorly

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

This vote was also really REALLY sketchy

Its very hard, though admittedly not completely impossible, for scum to win a game without voting town at least once in the first two days. These votes are very questionable with the hindsight of Merlyn's flip. I'm confident that one of these slots will flip scum

Hold pushes HEM and Cook within this post questioning their votes on Merlyn day 2. Interestingly leaves room here to flip either of the two.

i think leek is town and hem is scum

just need content from you tbh your slot hasn't had an active player since day 1

Hold posits a scumread on HEM at this point

Where I'm at right now

HEM: Playing defensively, tried to make Seven come across as more town than they were, subtle vote onto town with little explanation in 721, lean scum
Leek: Generally if HEM is scum I don't see it, has been a productive townie player
Smiley: Slight scum for reasons already mentioned
Cook: Idk

Hold expands on their scumread on HEM

So if there's distancing where is it occurring?

Do you think Smiley lecturing HEM for not engaging in scumhunt enough could be an attempt at distancing?

Hold posits a myself/HEM scum team with me attempting to distance here

HEM will you blame us or yourself when we lose?

This is another quote that feels like town frustration (once again if paired i'd think this type of post would be more likely to be kept to the Mafia PT), though I think this was at a point in the day where it had become decently clear where the elimination was landing so could easily be distancing.

Last wishes if I die tonight: I really think its more likely here that Smiley is bussing because Geek was really town and Smiley was weird in certain places please go back and read my ISOs that I gave

Floats a myself/HEM solve again.


In conclusion on the associations between HEM and Hold, I feel like there's problems with this solve, I think Seven's read on Hold early feels slightly ungenerous in a way that maybe was meant to shade, and I think Hold would've been acting to undercut their partner at points. I think there were also multiple points where Hold responded towards the HEM slot in a tone that I would not expect a partner to broadcast publicly (especially reins true in the first instance I mentioned, not sure if Hold would've committed towards bussing the slot at that point). I do find it interesting that both HEM and Hold were pushing each other day 3 while positing myself as a partner in both instances. I could imagine it being distancing with intent of getting me caught up in the fray there ( maybe was an attempt to posit me as part of the consensus solve and swing a lim there either yesterday or today in ELO?). This along with Hold's votes on day 1 and 2 (As mentioned earlier, I feel like their justification makes reasonable enough sense, but I feel day 1 claiming Seven as a LHF lim is fair but easy enough to come up with as scum, and day 2 Hold may have been content to go either way on voting HEM thinking they'd be good regardless) make me feel the solve is feasible, but I think I feel less confident in this solve compared to before I looked at it.

[SmileyDude1]

Now time for the Cook slot/ HEM slot associations

HEM Slot/ Cook Slot

ok no i actually like brassherald as the game has progressed, I want to see people look into this. VOTE: SmileyDude1

Agree that LuB's post about MagicalSteve being the town leader is apparently out of nowhere. Also people, this game so far is the reason you should never have multiple PS troll players in a single MS game.

SevenEyes, welcome! Give me the name of the person you like the most and the one you like the least right now, and we'll go from there.

simply going off of vibes i think that you are maybe one of the least sus rn. smileydude, on the other hand ... i'm no expert but self voting is always kinda sus ...

Seven speaks positively of CCGeek here, CCGeek's post calling Seven to action is interesting to note.

Hello people, I exist (probably), someone talk to me about the fact that we are halfway through day 1 and 2 people have non-existent ISOs.

CCG comes off as somewhat critical of Seven due to lack of content

Well, 3 people, actually. Include Brassherald in that list. I just revisited Brassherald and I'm really conflicted. While I give SevenEyes a pass for newbie awkwardness (which I shouldn't), Brassherald has this weird non-committal tone which I really don't like, but well gut reads can get me so far.

My impressions about MagicalSteve start from a negative intercept but now I definitely TR him for this day at least.

I will refrain from attempting to read LuB even remotely.

Is it weird that I find the brassherald-SmileyDude interaction slightly stiff?

TR: TheHoldSteady > MagicalSteve
TL: Iavh,
Null: LuB > SmileyDude > SevenEyes > Erinys
SL(?): brassherald
SR: None so far

CCG has Seven in the nullread section

In conclusion, seven should just talk to us, that's enough to generate content

CCG offers advice to Seven. If paired this seems like a weird thing to post publicly instead of in a PT, though isn't it fairly common to resort to going public in many cases in the event your partner isn't listening to you,

apologiese for the shoddy formatting lol i dont know how to make text bold

ccgeek: ccg is giving me good vibes so far. i feel like he's actively trying to move the game forward, while also not making every single post super serious and/or accusatory, which is good. generally townlean imo

civil scum: i feel like he hasn't offered much substantial info that can be used to progress the game, but to be fair it is day 1. generally town ish ... but im kind of on the fence.

iamveryhappy: there was quite a lot of discourse about his first post, and tbh i think that might have just been a joke that landed kind of poorly. i feel like he hasn't offered many mafia-relevant posts or tried to progress the game at all, and some of his posts are a bit questionable (like all the stuff about soft claiming). his kind of playstyle is kind of confusing to me because everything is just sort of unclear with him. maybe a slight scum lean?

magical steve: his posts are mostly mafia-related and he's been proactive in voting and making reads on people. how good those reads are or how scummy those posts are though... not sure. immediately targeting iavh's post 1 as a cop claim was kind of weird. i agree with leek saying that steve overreacted a bit to some of the earlier posts that could have just been unserious or suggestions. i'm sitting on the fence.

smileydude: i might have said this before but his self vote was a bit suspicious when it happened. maybe a strange attempt at humour, maybe inherently scummy behaviour... looking back on it i don't know if it was really as weird as i thought it was. null/slight townlean imo

leek: i'm kind of ashamed of myself actually, because leek immediately jumped in and contributed more than i have this entire game, lmao. he's offered some good points that i generally agree with. all of his posts have been mafia-relevant, which is good to see. townread, imo.

the bulge: i'm not getting good vibes from the bulge. their posts are incredibly short and snippy, and the "yuck" post in particular was a weird way to respond to a post about just voting, let alone any post. scumlean, imo. (by the way, ive had to refer to you with they/them in this post, but what are your pronouns?)

theholdsteady: not a whole lot of content his posts either offer relevant opinions/reads on posts or are helpful generally. i'm getting good/neutral vibes. don't really have a whole lot to say abt him, probably townlean atp.

Seven holds a townlean on CCG in this post and what feels like one of their stronger ones at that (I think the only slot they speak better about here is Leek)

If we're sharing limpools, with exactly how much I've skimmed; this is mine as of right now:
{MagicalSteve, Civil Scum, SzmarzLeek}
I really really dislike SzmarzLeek right now, feels like a surface-y slot that is attempting to pocket (also attempting to redirect the wagon, which is kind of Too Scummy to be Scum, which is why I'm only using it as a supplement to the read.)

My strong TRs are:
{The Bulge, TheHoldSteady}

Iavh eventually sorts himself IMO.

I don't feel strongly about Smiley, I'll have to read him more carefully.

Neutral on SevenEyes, I don't know how to deal with that inactive of a slot.

CCG states their limpool with Seven outside of it with them being in neutral due to lack of content. The line on SevenEyes I could potentially see coming from scum CCG in reference to a partner though that may be a stretch on my part.

hey, i'm here to pop in quickly: not reallu sure what the context is on Seven Eyes but if anyone ever tries to defend their predecessor from a scumread it's generally a red flag.
note on my vla: i've mostly finished my work so i think i can return to the game sometime tomorrow. i should be wrapping things up around tonight so if i'm fast it can probably end today
also hii merlyn

is the idea she's scum because she's avoiding to eliminate happy?
if scum!seveneyes identified the pr, why would she need to avoid pushing the slot if the opportunity presented itself? doesn't she want to push the slot?

the thing is, she scumread it but "forgot" to push it

and the whole game was scummy, playing to avoid the prods and mostly talking when pushed to that

that doesn't sound like scum, but rather just a player who wasn't really that interested in playing the game

Uhhhh no that's kind of a scumtell
town has a intrinsic motivation to solve ehte game because thye're the uninformed ones, not scum. if someone announces a scumread but just lets it sit there and acts all fencesitty it's kind of scummy lol

wait is humaneatingmonkey experienced

woah, they are. that's a little absurd. leek, out of curiosity, when did seven eyes announce their scumread on happy, and when did they say they forgot to push it in comparison to when they replaced out?

cause i'm not really gonna buy this borderline angleshooty "she lost interest and excused herself from the game" (paraphrased) narrative unless there's proof backing it up and i'm not really able to read the thread right now. currently i'm buyign leek's argument more based on the quotes i've skimmed but i'm willing to give the slot the benefit of the doubt

Patchwork pushes HEM for defending their predecessor too much, and for the slot failing to solve the game. The aggressiveness behind this push suggests that the slots are not paired

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

This vote by flowr putting Merlyn at E-1 was pretty bad and the slot's psuedodefense of HEM is't helping matters here

ok so i'm sick and have dm'd alianna to replace out

before that very rushed thoughts:
i expected clems to flip pr, albeit not doc, all his d1 nonsense was kind of telling to me more than it usually is, but am more surprised at whoever decided to kill the iavh slot.

i do not like smiley's case because i had been reading, and surely people could tell from my live read session that was cutshort by my fever; I'm pretty sure that's room enough for progression, you may disagree tho. also keep in mind that I never actually even voted for the lim, which partly was due to all this, but imo having steve in my limpool should not really equate scummy by itself.

i still HATE the szmarzleek slot that just feels weirdly coasty and pockety and IMHO shouldnot be trusted. him being the main resistance to steve does not prove anything because it's very easily fakeable as scum.

holdsteady is the one person i still believe is hard town in my eyes.

i also think bulge can make or break this game with proper decisions because it seems like he's the one town is gradually gravitating to as the leader. imo look at one of civil scum (by wagonomics) or szmarzleek first.

side thought, smiley+bulge team would probably mean disaster for town.

this was flower's slot, and this looks like the most town-indicative post in the game thus far

he was about to replace out and i don't think there's scum motivation to drop this on his way out

HEM calls the flowr slot town due to CCGeek's farewell post

the reason i'm not voting smiley here dude.. is because flower's slot hasn't showed up yet

Paranoid part of me thinks that HEM was waiting for their partner to come back before committing on me

Cook what's your Smiley read

Paranoid part of me thinks that this may have been HEM signalling to partner Cook (though this doesn't really go anywhere afterwards so likely unfounded).

day 2:

we lost a VT and our protective. damn it. we know we're in either b2 or a1 though so
leekposting is just what it is tbh. townlean on leek
why does the bulge think he's not going to survive n1? feels a very obvious towntell
seven also has the same calculated voice as leek
bulge removes his previous towncred by posting 457
ccgeek and leek dislike each other?
SD1 town for apologizing in 466
leek's a little weird in 474
THS poe seems fine.
leek's point on sd1's scum in elo being very good also worries me too
the CS case? how did CS escape being suspected up to this point? the case clearly is getting built, time to watch who greases it
leek continues to concern me
and here comes HEM
SD1 focuses on themselves
also here comes merlyn instead of CS
merlyn's readslist is... i feel like it's wrong, but not wrong because she's scum
leek's reads in 522 don't explain the scumreads, but do explain the townreads?
wait hang on why do i like leek now
okay now i'm liking leek
HEM irks me with the defense of SevenEyes. makes me scumread him. the bulge push from HEM also does no favors, especially in hindsight. they don't have a rolecop but i would think they had a rolecop and found bulge possibly.
THS on page 24 could be scum. actually no i SR THS
SD1, HEM, THS are my scumrange as of pg 26
leek with the towncred on page 25
i'm townreading merlyn atp
still not sure what i think of SD1 as of page 26, they're losing cred as we're speaking. HEM/SD1 world doesn't make sense to me
why does HEM not die, given the state at pg 28?
szmarzleek's concerns still feel towny
i would be SR'ing merlyn with HEM on page 29

my thoughts end there since i stopped reading on page 29

Cook states their dislike of HEM's defense of SevenEyes and has them in their scumrange. Says myself/HEM doesn't make sense as a solve (remains consistent with this in their 967

also is hem scum

? seems weird given the stance taken earlier

i don't think leek and ths are buddies

i see hem as likely scum. sd1, ths, are next, leek, myself, in that order

States HEM as likely scum again. I think the shift from 1009 to 1018 maybe was them being uncertain and then regaining confidence, still feels kind of off though.

frankly i'm seeing THS/HEM as the pair? i need to read about 11 pages of content before i lock that in

the common theme seems to be hem across the four of us. i think it is helpful to try to draw out an associative on hem, up to your personal preference if you want to go for hem or want to try to kill a partner so that we 100% win d4

Posits Hold/HEM as the pair

In conclusion on associations between HEM/Cook, this solve seems to jump around in viability depending on who's in the Cook slot. I can see the hints there with CCGeek potentially guiding a new scum buddy Seven day 1 while keeping associations between the two at a minimum, but then when Patchwork and HEM come in later and the former's stance towards the latter is hard to see coming from a scum buddy (especially given Leek was kind of alone in terms of substantially pushing monkey at this point, decent chance that just flames out had Patch not done that). Flowr replaces Patch and immediately makes the pair with HEM feel viaable again with their vote and defense of the slot (Especially given the lack of justification), then Cook comes in and takes stances that go back to feeling unpaired with HEM, if not having some slight consistency issues for my liking). The overall content from the CCG/Patch/Flowr/Cook slot towards the Seven/HEM slot feel pretty different in terms of how the slots treat each other, which makes it difficult to gauge how viable the pair feels as a solve

[Cook]

smiley i'd like you to pick one of those two worlds as your solve

the way you're framing things makes me think that you're trying to be friendly to both slots early on to see who takes the bait on the other one

[Cook]

also THS, post content when you have the time

[Cook]

i'm gonna actually catch up on day 3 before my repin and see what i think

[SmileyDude1]

smiley i'd like you to pick one of those two worlds as your solve

the way you're framing things makes me think that you're trying to be friendly to both slots early on to see who takes the bait on the other one

If i'm being honest i'd need more time to think it over. My mind keeps going back and forth between the two of you and i'd be lying if I said I could give you an confident answer on that at this moment.

[TheHoldSteady]

Now that we know Monkey was mafia roleblocker:

Day one bussing the scum PR is a questionable decision. Unfortunately I felt like Geek didn't interact with Seven much, Smiley voted SevenEyes and then unvoted later, could easily be distancing but there's not much to read into there off of day one votes alone. However Geek was pretty much clear off of D1. So I guess that gives scum Smiley motive enough to kill him in spite of what I said before

Day two it gets a bit more questionable; doc is dead, cop is still alive. Bussing here is still not optimal, but it is more feasible than it was on day one. Did Bulge say anything D1 that would give their role away?

Got to go to work soon, will post more later hopefully. I want to review Merlyn's case for Smiley at least and review Smiley's progression onto HEM that day.

[TheHoldSteady]

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

My progression on HEM has been pretty clear dating back to 647 (and that came after the point HEM was most active), what about it feels ingenuine to you. Like in theory any change in read could be called buddying/pocketing (if positive) or distancing (if negative). Progression on a slot can often be fabricated for ulterior motives, but it just as easily could be one's legitimate progression on the slot. When looking at interactions to check for distancing it's important to ask yourself is the progression genuine or fabricated. So the question to answer here is do you think my progression on monkey was fabricated and if so what about it feels ingenuine to you?

Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything about your progression. Just that post in particular felt like a high word count but not solving content (scum can be unproductive, but town can also be unproductive, so it doesn't tell us much to just say this person's not doing ISOs or responding to reads) which I interpreted as a possible distancing attempt

[SmileyDude1]

smiley i'd like you to pick one of those two worlds as your solve

the way you're framing things makes me think that you're trying to be friendly to both slots early on to see who takes the bait on the other one

smiley i'd like you to pick one of those two worlds as your solve

the way you're framing things makes me think that you're trying to be friendly to both slots early on to see who takes the bait on the other one

If i'm being honest i'd need more time to think it over. My mind keeps going back and forth between the two of you and i'd be lying if I said I could give you an confident answer on that at this moment.

Ok, so i've had time to sleep on it, and I think I lean towards you right now. Of the 4 people who've represented your slot, I see at least hints of an HEM partnership with 3 of them (CCG potentially having trouble working with partner Seven, Flowr's 751 vote pushing HEM counterwagon while defending them, your 1009 having potential to be an attempt to instill doubt regarding Scum!HEM), and even looking at Patchwork again they kind of hedged their push on HEM in 588 stating that they're giving them the benefit of doubt. I think comparatively Hold feels less likely due to there being multiple moments where Hold kind of undercut the Seven/HEM slot in a way that I feel indicates their not partnered.

[SmileyDude1]

THS plays very similarly though to his scum game

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91126&user_select%5B%5D=37112

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

My progression on HEM has been pretty clear dating back to 647 (and that came after the point HEM was most active), what about it feels ingenuine to you. Like in theory any change in read could be called buddying/pocketing (if positive) or distancing (if negative). Progression on a slot can often be fabricated for ulterior motives, but it just as easily could be one's legitimate progression on the slot. When looking at interactions to check for distancing it's important to ask yourself is the progression genuine or fabricated. So the question to answer here is do you think my progression on monkey was fabricated and if so what about it feels ingenuine to you?

Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything about your progression. Just that post in particular felt like a high word count but not solving content (scum can be unproductive, but town can also be unproductive, so it doesn't tell us much to just say this person's not doing ISOs or responding to reads) which I interpreted as a possible distancing attempt

Hold, How do you respond to this accusation? What would you say is the difference between your posting here and 2126?

[SmileyDude1]

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

Thanks for repping in! Are you new to mafia? You sound experienced, but I was curious.

I know you said you have to work, but I'd like to hear your case on me and the one on Smiley.

Hi Merlyn! I'm experienced in the "big fish, small pond" way, I've had different groups I've played with in the meat-world and have tried to read to catch myself up with online forum mafia. But I will be inexperienced and brittle in comparison to any experienced forum players. I've got to start somewhere.

Catch me in a few hours after my work deadline and I'll go ahead and give you my thoughts.

Reupping the question in my 959 (behind the spoiler).
It felt off to me that Flowr responded to Merlyn asking for their case on them by telling them to ask again later given Flowr scumread them enough to vote on the slot.

[SmileyDude1]

if SevenEyes is brand new and CS couldn't even tell we were at E1 can we really believe one of them was going to pick up on IAVH being a PR

I TR Smiley and Bulge

By PoE that leaves one scum in Patchwork or Leek

idk

My slot's more experienced than me!

With Steady's analysis, I figured I'd ISO Leek's posts and dig for clues. This lad is so pro-town it is not even funny.

After my procrastination skim, Smiley and Merlyn are my contenders. I'd like to see one of them flip. I'm not quite sure what the humaneatingmonkey voting is all about, I'll have to read. Actually have to force myself to do work now, so feel free to ignore me, not providing anything substantial, just explaining that I'm going to vote for Merlyn over Smiley because she already has votes.

VOTE: Merlyn

Later tonight I will be here to be scrutinized and flogged! Excited for this game

Thanks for repping in! Are you new to mafia? You sound experienced, but I was curious.

I know you said you have to work, but I'd like to hear your case on me and the one on Smiley.

Hi Merlyn! I'm experienced in the "big fish, small pond" way, I've had different groups I've played with in the meat-world and have tried to read to catch myself up with online forum mafia. But I will be inexperienced and brittle in comparison to any experienced forum players. I've got to start somewhere.

Catch me in a few hours after my work deadline and I'll go ahead and give you my thoughts.

Reupping the question in my 959 (behind the spoiler).
It felt off to me that Flowr responded to Merlyn asking for their case on them by telling them to ask again later given Flowr scumread them enough to vote on the slot.

The above post was directed at Cook

i'm gonna actually catch up on day 3 before my repin and see what i think

[TheHoldSteady]

THS plays very similarly though to his scum game

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=11&t=91126&user_select%5B%5D=37112

I think smileys no dumbie and as scum he's going to want to distance from a doing nothing partner

Plus Geek was really town

Or it's Smiley and Cook and they're waiting for Cook to come on and hammer

My progression on HEM has been pretty clear dating back to 647 (and that came after the point HEM was most active), what about it feels ingenuine to you. Like in theory any change in read could be called buddying/pocketing (if positive) or distancing (if negative). Progression on a slot can often be fabricated for ulterior motives, but it just as easily could be one's legitimate progression on the slot. When looking at interactions to check for distancing it's important to ask yourself is the progression genuine or fabricated. So the question to answer here is do you think my progression on monkey was fabricated and if so what about it feels ingenuine to you?

Just to clarify I wasn't saying anything about your progression. Just that post in particular felt like a high word count but not solving content (scum can be unproductive, but town can also be unproductive, so it doesn't tell us much to just say this person's not doing ISOs or responding to reads) which I interpreted as a possible distancing attempt

Hold, How do you respond to this accusation? What would you say is the difference between your posting here and 2126?

i'm assuming you quoted the wrong thing here. what's the difference? idk, i was scum that game but town this one? town is generally less pressure for me to play because you don't have to fear persecution as much which generally was something that contributed to my acrimonious exit from 2126. i think i already told you in the pt of that game, i hated playing scum day 1 and it was incredibly anxiety-producing for me. but playing town also does have its times of high pressure such as this one

[TheHoldSteady]

Smileys - agreeing with kms that brassherald is ‘lurky’ and ‘light on non RVS content’ is not accurate (they were on VLA and still posted more content than some players here), and odd when you look at all the players who fit that description better than brassherald

]I can see how you reach that conclusion, BrassHerald's ISO is light on non-RVS content so far. I think that other slots such as myself (before today) and SevenEyes may have been more apt targets to press in this way though.

If you read the post Smiley was already saying “there are better players who fit that description” so I don’t get this point from Merlyn.

169, 170- smiley is posting just like they were as scum in Night of a Thousand Falseclaims. But I’ve never played with them as town- maybe they have a very good identical game?

Dont love that smiley has switched vote to an inactive and that they are his only scumread

again not seeing the point, Smiley had given more reads at this point in time?

"highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek"

yeah this caught my eye too back then, almost everyone got scum points for Steve's lim but at least there was a differentiation there, some got less some got more scum points

When making that original list I was thinking more so from the perspective of "If I was a neutral observer of that day 1 how would I feel about the players post flip". I think in reality as a player in this game, i'd probably say that the progressions myself and TheHoldSteady made seemed genuine and non-malicious. Though if I were reading the game and not participating in it i'd likely find it notable that both of the aforementioned slots progressed from liking the Steve slot to agreeing to eliminate it. These are two slots that in retrospect probably would've been better marked as neutral, though I had felt that it may have came off as disingenuous of me to do that at the time

This kind of overthinking is not a towny trait

I still think its more scum than town to worry about coming off as disingenuous. Just can’t shake that comment from Smiley

in D2 454,he says ''here's what I learned from the flip' and highlights that his scum list has increased to everyone but Leek. Doesn't bring up that he was looking at CS as a Steve partner. Doesn't reconsider based on the fact that Steve was town. Keeps CS as his main scumread.

This is a good point

I'm still leaning towards Smiley for the subtlety of the switch off of SevenEyes D1, some progression inconsistencies like the one Merlyn pointed about above, general defensiveness (there's at least a few times where Smiley responded to accusations in ways that felt sort of like a scum being worried about suspicion), admitting to being afraid of sounding disingenuous, as well as just reading CCGeek as really town D1 and not seeing a clear agenda with any of his three replacement slots

IDRK though

[Cook]

@THS

what does smiley look like as scum? hyperposting? does he lay back?

[TheHoldSteady]

He was pretty similar to here

[TheHoldSteady]

here's my dilemma:

if i go off of partner interactions, it seems like it'd be cook

if i go off of individual tells, i lean smiley

[Cook]

here's my dilemma:

if i go off of partner interactions, it seems like it'd be cook

if i go off of individual tells, i lean smiley

has there been any sort of consistency with my slot being solveworthy? or is it more a "ehh this feels like some of the interactions are scummy and the consensus against everyone who's played it seems to indicate it's scum"