Open 883 - Swinger's Hall

[Dannflor]

you could vote out klick and then yeet yourself with your second-highest scum read if that's the way you want to go

but i think mafia is going to avoid pairing with people who they believe actively scum read them ?

[Infinity 324]

So his read on me that I'm posting "unnaturally" when I interrogate Klick is pretty bizarre to me considering he's seen me do it to himself.

this seems like a towny-biased post, i could definitely see it just feeling different to cakez but town is less likely to see that as a possibility

I think Cakez has a pretty vivid memory of when I pushed him back when he decided to tunnel me on D1 since he made it pretty clear in the thread he found it painful so I don't see why he would forget the experience and believe my posting here is any different. It's such a nonspecific comment that I find it hard to believe as coming from a unagenda'd perspective.

i mean whether or not it is any different, a townie could feel like it is, and cakez makes posts like that all the time as both alignments.

[Infinity 324]

i think eliminating the scummiest pair is better than no limming. like we can still force scummy players to pair up tomorrow, but we should also lim someone today.

[Aristeia]

you could vote out klick and then yeet yourself with your second-highest scum read if that's the way you want to go

but i think mafia is going to avoid pairing with people who they believe actively scum read them ?

well if collectively we are for eliminating me/klick

during the pairing phase nobody will pair with me/klick and we will be yeeted together. to rescue klick would be a scumclaim

[Aristeia]

whether we lim or not is not important because the mafia do not have a nightkill if im reading the rules correctly

[Doctor Drew]

i think if we don't vote to eliminate then we are going to have headaches finding mafia later

That's where I was at as well, just wanted someone smarter to say it lol.

[Aristeia]

like being able to select any two players to lim is much stronger imo than being forced into eliminating a certain player pair

[Dannflor]

i guess but that assumes there won't be a townie with a hero read on klick or something

or that mafia won't have the bravado to pair up anyway

also i don't think intentionally eliminating the ability to wagon people is at all a good idea

I'm not even sure what benefit this would get you besides if you're wrong you don't have to deal with the consequences?? like you should know you're town so voting two slots out that you don't know the alignment of should be preferable to trading 1 for 1

[Dannflor]

like being able to select any two players to lim is much stronger imo than being forced into eliminating a certain player pair

i mean we can still attempt to do this but we are not going to have good reads if we aren't wagoning people d1

[Dannflor]

like for similar reasons I'd prefer no one leaves the dance D1 (I'd even prefer a self-vote if you think your partner is mafia)

[Aristeia]

I'm not even sure what benefit this would get you besides if you're wrong you don't have to deal with the consequences?? like you should know you're town so voting two slots out that you don't know the alignment of should be preferable to trading 1 for 1

well let's look at what happens if Klick is town here and so is his partner - worst case scenario;

I flip Klick/RH9 - they both flip town - we're at 7 town 3 Mafia
I get flipped with my partner the next day, we're at 5 town 3 mafia which is elo

Not a great position.

if instead I pair with Klick and we flip together and we're T/T - then you know from 7 town 3 mafia that it was a T/T conflict early d1 and you have room to look for how people played around it and scumhunt.

similarly look at what happens if Klick is mafia and RH9 is town.

if I just flip Klick normally, we are at 8 Town 2 Mafia.
If I pair with Klick and we both flip, we are also at 8 Town 2 Mafia.

it's basically protected from my point of view because it eliminates some downside scenarios while keeping the upside fairly similar.

[Dannflor]

idk I'm just not really interested in having everyone unvote and then waiting out 7 days of irl time. it just isn't realistic or fun

and like even if it's mechanically "optimal"

i don't believe it would actually increase our EV over generating natural reads over wagons on D1

[Aristeia]

I don't think there's a significant risk of townies making a hero read and defying popular will.

and even if such a thing did happen - there is little downside risk. Worse case scenario in a week's time we are back to dancing with no eliminations, new pairs, and a lot more information with which to make a decision.

[Aristeia]

7 days for an elimination doesn't feel like a tremendous amount of time. towns normally take that long to make a decision anyway.

We can track votes via other methods and simply pair the two highest voted players to be dancing into the night if you prefer that kind of system.

[Alisae]

VOTE: rh9

[Aristeia]

idk I'm just not really interested in having everyone unvote and then waiting out 7 days of irl time. it just isn't realistic or fun

and like even if it's mechanically "optimal"

i don't believe it would actually increase our EV over generating natural reads over wagons on D1

I do recognize the criticism that such a system might be unfun or against the spirit of the game etc. if people don't want to do it I have no problems with just playing normally.

[Doctor Drew]

VOTE: rh9

Maybe this is semantics, but why RH and not Klick.

Also, your new avatar makes me think yellow m&m on a week long bender.

[Alisae]

I woke up skimmed thread and that is what stood out to me

[Alisae]

My new avatar is from the 2018 dk rap where tiny kills all of the bees and I think that part of the video is funny

[Infinity 324]

oh I think ari is right actually

[Aristeia]

I will say I am not used to all the effort from Ari.

Someone who is better at(and cared more about) mech, is it better to not lim someone here?

Isn't that not ever a good idea on D1?

the key thing that makes no elims bad is that if you no lim - the mafia get to nightkill and pull ahead.

this is a nightless game - there are no mafia nightkills, we can nolim over and over and never fall behind - however because the game is designed to re-pair players every day cycle, we can shuffle players around to get two elims we want rather than one elim we want and then a person who just happens to be paired with the elim we want.

[SirCakez]

Ari immediately slapping the meta button and being like omg why would Cakez do this doesn't make me want to move my vote

[SirCakez]

It's a preemptive offensive play when one wasn't really needed

so you think I am preempting you on page one of RVS when I don't need to because?

like why does scum!me need to pre-empt you again? Do you think scum!me would fear town!you ? why?

These were the initial posts that pinged me, but I decided to hold back for a bit (which Dann can verify)
These just don't seem like a natural way to react on literally page one. I know Ari is defensive but these posts just read like they are trying to start something that doesn't exist.

[SirCakez]

Ari immediately slapping the meta button and being like omg why would Cakez do this doesn't make me want to move my vote

Like Ari herself pointed out that when I pushed her recently it backfired terribly. Why would I immediately repeat the same mistake as scum? But she called me agendaed for it.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: aristeia
her posting doesn't feel natural

You could be right, actually.
VOTE: Ari

This post does ping me also, which gives me pause, but it also might be me reading RH9's awkward posting style as scummy