Mini Normal 2311 | FIN

[ZZZX]

heipzhu4, BlueSnakelet, ZZZX, Passenger, Hu Tao, AnimatedWiz and TheHoldSteady need to step up their activity

I feel called out!

VOTE: NM

[ZZZX]

heipzhu4, BlueSnakelet, ZZZX, Passenger, Hu Tao, AnimatedWiz and TheHoldSteady need to step up their activity

I feel called out!

VOTE: NM

[ZZZX]

Due to needing more bodies for their funeral parlor, Hu Tao’s motive makes them clearly the most logical choice to eliminate as of now.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Indeed, but everyone knows NM is the one who does the job.

Also, nice to play with ya again @everyone i played with before

[ZZZX]

heipzhu4, BlueSnakelet, ZZZX, Passenger, Hu Tao, AnimatedWiz and TheHoldSteady need to step up their activity

I feel called out!

VOTE: NM

heipzhu4, BlueSnakelet, ZZZX, Passenger, Hu Tao, AnimatedWiz and TheHoldSteady need to step up their activity

I feel called out!

VOTE: NM

I fear we may have a Doublevoter D1 claim—careful everyone.

You know, you convinced me!

And hello, Steady.

VOTE: TheHoldSteady

[ZZZX]

VOTE: Wiz for explaining a joke.

VOTE: wiz

Choo choo

[ZZZX]

VOTE: ZZZX
Scummy-ish hop on

Id vote you but I forgot what that term was called... time to get back to the wiki.

But I will bite, why is it scummish?

[ZZZX]

VOTE: ZZZX
Scummy-ish hop on

Id vote you but I forgot what that term was called... time to get back to the wiki.

But I will bite, why is it scummish?

If I remember correctly, the term you're looking for is OMGUS.

And I think joining a wagon quickly is often considered a bit suspicious due to it being a bit of an "anyone but me" sort of vote, but I mean—we're the only people who know our own alignment, so I think both the Village

and

all the evil people would logically want to vote anyone but themselves, especially right now when we know so little. So, it technically

can

be a tell, but it's not super strong (especially not this early).

Yes! It was OMGUS, thanks.

heipzhu4, BlueSnakelet, ZZZX, Passenger, Hu Tao, AnimatedWiz and TheHoldSteady need to step up their activity

I feel called out!

VOTE: NM

Wow, double-posting to inflate your post count, how desperate

VOTE: ZZZX

You know what? I will do a serious vote for once and a question.

Are you scum NM? My gut is tingling and questioning you right now. Mostly probably becuase you are the only one here i have any semblence of an ability to read here currently.

VOTE: NM

Thst puts you at L2 if I am not mistaken

VOTE: ZZZX
Scummy-ish hop on

Id vote you but I forgot what that term was called... time to get back to the wiki.

But I will bite, why is it scummish?

Your tone seemed like you were trying too hard to fit in

That is indeed what implied by the train sound, yes. But I don't think there was any group to fit in within. But I like the reasoning enough

[ZZZX]

Nevermind, just puts 2 votes on NM i see now.

[ZZZX]

Are you scum NM? My gut is tingling and questioning you right now. Mostly probably becuase you are the only one here i have any semblence of an ability to read here currently.

VOTE: NM

You're in trouble if Not_Mafia is the one player you think you can read.

To be fair its been a while But I am usually finding myself in trouble.

But here is a better question, if you like annie's vibes, whos vibes do you not like? Put your vote to good use

[ZZZX]

Are you scum NM? My gut is tingling and questioning you right now. Mostly probably becuase you are the only one here i have any semblence of an ability to read here currently.

VOTE: NM

You're in trouble if Not_Mafia is the one player you think you can read.

Agreed. What makes you think you can read him?

We played in tens if not hundreds of games together since probably 2014

[ZZZX]

Hu Tao, what reads have you generated so far? I would love to hear what someone experienced with death finds suspicious here.

You expect me to have reads 3 pages in?

Maybe attempting to do so, for one?

[ZZZX]

Are you scum NM? My gut is tingling and questioning you right now. Mostly probably becuase you are the only one here i have any semblence of an ability to read here currently.

VOTE: NM

You're in trouble if Not_Mafia is the one player you think you can read.

Agreed. What makes you think you can read him?

We played in tens if not hundreds of games together since probably 2014

Okay then. What are their tells?

I donno, i just gut read em

[ZZZX]

I'm always okay with a NM elimination sooner rather than later. But ZZZ says they can read them. Not sure how much stock I want to put in that. Could be scum trying to pocket as well

Well I guess he said he thinks he's scum. So nevermind on the pocket stuff.

I mean, my last mafia game was in 2020, so I cant say i have much confidence in my mafia abilities despite my best wishes. I do like playing with NM as we share a lot of mentality and thoughts often. But we did use to be able to read each others real well, sometimes causing one of us pain.

To be fair games where we both were scum were really fun. We had one game where we got into an argument for 5 pages in game, killed town activity and basically auto won if i recall correctly haha.

But he needs to step up more. Hes waaay more inactive than i like, cant read him if he doesnt talk.

[ZZZX]

So, yeah, I hammered Not Mafia because I'm not going to tolerate a jester who doesn't contribute to the gamestate and is just going to be mis-lim bait. If he's going to be a jester he can go Day 1 instead of end game. Got it?

I am absolutely certain Scum will attempt to use my hammering of NM against me, so if you're Town FFS, be smart.

Now, with that out if the way, get out of my way as I take a look at the VCs and associations. If you want to fight me over NM's yeet I will give it to you.

Look at

what

associations?

You quick hammered page 4-5, when we weren't even really out of RVS, half the votes on NM were simply people either annoyed by him, parked on him (like mine), or scum making use of the situation to get a quick elim.

I think blue is probably town, Random might be scum, but I can't even be sure because I can see non-scum just doing that horrid horrid decision.

I also think one of the people not voting was probably scum.

BUT instead of having information of people, we are just empty because you took that QH, to be honest blue setting NM to E-1 was equally problematic.

[ZZZX]

So, yeah, I hammered Not Mafia because I'm not going to tolerate a jester who doesn't contribute to the gamestate and is just going to be mis-lim bait. If he's going to be a jester he can go Day 1 instead of end game. Got it?

I am absolutely certain Scum will attempt to use my hammering of NM against me, so if you're Town FFS, be smart.

Now, with that out if the way, get out of my way as I take a look at the VCs and associations. If you want to fight me over NM's yeet I will give it to you.

Look at

what

associations?

You quick hammered page 4-5, when we weren't even really out of RVS, half the votes on NM were simply people either annoyed by him, parked on him (like mine), or scum making use of the situation to get a quick elim.

I think blue is probably town, Random might be scum, but I can't even be sure because I can see non-scum just doing that horrid horrid decision.

I also think one of the people not voting was probably scum.

BUT instead of having information of people, we are just empty because you took that QH, to be honest blue setting NM to E-1 was equally problematic.

Well gee, man, I'm all torn up about it. You can cry your eyes out about it and mis-lim me or if Town you can get over this and work with me on finding Scum. I'm inclined to think you *might* be Town because when I've done this before there were Townies that responded similarly.

I am still not sure whether you are town or scum.
I am still upset about this. If you are scum then sure, if you are town then you just possibly lost the game for everyone, but moving ahead..
Fine, sell me on it. Who do you see as scum? Why? If you see some associations, show me. It is five pages.

[ZZZX]

So, yeah, I hammered Not Mafia because I'm not going to tolerate a jester who doesn't contribute to the gamestate and is just going to be mis-lim bait. If he's going to be a jester he can go Day 1 instead of end game. Got it?

I am absolutely certain Scum will attempt to use my hammering of NM against me, so if you're Town FFS, be smart.

Now, with that out if the way, get out of my way as I take a look at the VCs and associations. If you want to fight me over NM's yeet I will give it to you.

Look at

what

associations?

You quick hammered page 4-5, when we weren't even really out of RVS, half the votes on NM were simply people either annoyed by him, parked on him (like mine), or scum making use of the situation to get a quick elim.

I think blue is probably town, Random might be scum, but I can't even be sure because I can see non-scum just doing that horrid horrid decision.

I also think one of the people not voting was probably scum.

BUT instead of having information of people, we are just empty because you took that QH, to be honest blue setting NM to E-1 was equally problematic.

Well gee, man, I'm all torn up about it. You can cry your eyes out about it and mis-lim me or if Town you can get over this and work with me on finding Scum. I'm inclined to think you *might* be Town because when I've done this before there were Townies that responded similarly.

I am still not sure whether you are town or scum.
I am still upset about this. If you are scum then sure, if you are town then you just possibly lost the game for everyone, but moving ahead..
Fine, sell me on it. Who do you see as scum? Why? If you see some associations, show me. It is five pages.

You're more mad at me than the jester that voted himself and was daring everyone else to hammer him when he was at L-1?

Ask yourself this: would you rather have the jester hammered Day 1 or endgame? 100% of the time I'd choose the former, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

As for the rest of the game, I'm V/LA. I'm going to get into this game, but on MY time. If you're Town, and I think you may because you're the only vocal one around giving a fuck, then I'm going to ask you for some patience.

I played with NM before, he will do so for the first 2-3 real life days and then start playing normally. And I am familiar enough with him to read him. So yes, I am more upset at you than him, because the most he did was 5 posts being distracting for people, instead of us now being at 7 alive without any information. Its less about the lynch happening and about when on the day it happened, anyway no point discussing it further.

Sigh, the game is already half dead so this is going to be very fun to deal with. Lets see if we can somehow figure something out.

[ZZZX]

Reminder that usage of the word "Lynch" to refer to the Village's collective elimination is disallowed under site rules due to its harsh racial connotations.

The official term is "elimination" (or lim for short) but you are welcome to use flavorful substitutes like execution, yeet, or whatever else you like.

Apologies, old habits die hard. I will try my best to avoid it, but I am afraid it might slip once in a while, but I will do my utmost to avoid that

[ZZZX]

I wana read everything more in depth, then post again at night.

I was the 2nd vote on NM during RVS, then people got him to lynch just like that.

[ZZZX]

I'd have prefered to mass claim next day, but I do not appose the initiative.

I will do the promised reads later, for sure today (game day), hopefully tomororw (RL day), I am a bit overwhelmed with a lotta haha.

[ZZZX]

NOW, what do you make of the idea of a mass-claim? We are what, two mis-lims away from defeat? I need more information to work with and I think now is the time for all of us to put our cards on the table.

I think a mass claim will go how BlueSnakelet mentioned it thought the quickhammer question would go—maybe not useful immediately, but the second someone deviates we have a target to go for. Honestly, I think it’s great zoning, so we should probably try it out.

In that case,

I’m a vanilla Villager.

Honestly, I think you are town, let me see about the rest..

[ZZZX]

Oh, lovely—it’s now a game of chicken. I will say, at least the rainbow text is quite pretty.

Don't worry. Not_Mafia is already on the wagon. No one else would risk a premature hammer.

Blue, you keep on swinging around with your votes, and this time you’re actively courting another quickhammer, all while trying to place the blame on someone else—asking someone else to vote for Nurse and then saying you’ll go after whoever does is either some sort of weird power projection or just blatant attempts to mislead and then miseliminate.

Do you think someone would quickhammer again under these conditions?

Yes, and—in addition—I think scum have obvious motive to lie in answer to your questions, and also the total ability to do so. I don’t think that we can really know who would or wouldn’t quickhammer aside from Nurse, who did.

Therefore, if someone says "No, I wouldn't quickhammer", and they go ahead and quickhammer, we'll know they are scum for sure. Right?

Blue is *probably* town, but I am a bit conflicted here,

And to answer the question, I'd be willing to quick hammer someone if I truly think they are scum, or if I have a plan in mind. I don't have a hard read (or much or a read...) on anyone yet, so it is really difficult to say yet.

[ZZZX]

Nothing interesting to say about Hu Tao, I'd assume town would ... care?

It feels like all posts were a very don't care angle, either scum just cruising by, or town that just don't care. I am leaning for the former.

[ZZZX]

Mixed feelings on THS, I like his comments on the QH, but it feels... oppurtinistic of sorts. I am conflicted. Very weak lean scum/null for now

[ZZZX]

null-lean town on heip, it feels he is trying to look positively at me, which would've been a scum-lean if it was someone I know (e.g. NM trying to pocket me), but I doubt thats the case here, hm.

[ZZZX]

Make that a lean-town on help, I like him trying to create discussions with the current dead-game state

[ZZZX]

Lean town on Passenger,

It is freaking hard to get a read when everyone has like 5 posts

Thanks Random

[ZZZX]

Nothing interesting to say about Hu Tao, I'd assume town would ... care?

It feels like all posts were a very don't care angle, either scum just cruising by, or town that just don't care. I am leaning for the former.

Oh. Hu is dead.

[ZZZX]

Just consider the above NAI, 50% chance I faked it for town points, or that I am just an idiot. I've been lim'd for this same mess up before (my first quote in my sig) as town lol.

[ZZZX]

But that makes me more curious. *why* was Hu NK'd? I mean, I can see why someone like Nurse wasn't, but Hu? Hm...

[ZZZX]

You know what? Fuck it. This game is going nowhere, and honestly, mass claiming is not the right move here normally, but if it is what it takes to revive the game then fuck it.

I am a Vanilla VT. We claim by pointing into someone else to claim one by one, I will quote whos next and if they dont instantly claim in their next post then we

lim

them.

[ZZZX]

Blue, you keep on swinging around with your votes, and this time you’re actively courting another quickhammer, all while trying to place the blame on someone else—asking someone else to vote for Nurse and then saying you’ll go after whoever does is either some sort of weird power projection or just blatant attempts to mislead and then miseliminate.

Do you think someone would quickhammer again under these conditions?

Yes, and—in addition—I think scum have obvious motive to lie in answer to your questions, and also the total ability to do so. I don’t think that we can really know who would or wouldn’t quickhammer aside from Nurse, who did.

Therefore, if someone says "No, I wouldn't quickhammer", and they go ahead and quickhammer, we'll know they are scum for sure. Right?

Quoted for attention.

Claim, and choose someone to claim next.

[ZZZX]

Reminder that usage of the word "Lynch" to refer to the Village's collective elimination is disallowed under site rules due to its harsh racial connotations.

The official term is "elimination" (or lim for short) but you are welcome to use flavorful substitutes like execution, yeet, or whatever else you like.

Please.

Sorry.

[ZZZX]

Isnt a scum Neighborhood technically useless (outside of the backup neighbor) since they already have a chat?

[ZZZX]

I will be VLA for 2 days

I will, however, be popping around at least once a day, and I think it shouldn't be a problem with how.. active this game is.

I will decide on the vote tomorrow morning, I just reached home with the trains and it is 12:40...

[ZZZX]

Just a quick note before I am gone,

I believe the neighbors, especially with the backup-claim.

Backup maf neighbor? Not the most common, but makes some sense.

Two Maf Neighbors? If that's what it is, I will be very disappointed, it would be interesting but disappointing.

I am conflicted on RN claim, would someone with such a useful role be so ready to risk the hammer? I mean, possibly if they think that their claim can save them... Or is it? It is a more easy role to fake I guess.

Yea I need to sleep on it and think, eliminating ( I almost slipped :') ) one of the neighbors could be possibility. I cannot say for sure. Maybe I will read in the morning, or maybe a day later, depends on how my work goes

[ZZZX]

I will post my thoughts today, and hammer afterwards. Soon tm.

[ZZZX]

It's nice to see you back, ZZZX—I hope the surprise of the thread almost tripling in post count was a nice surprise after a few days away.

Well, it will be a lovely read for sure, and with more chances to actually do something with the game lol.

[ZZZX]

I will read up within the next 12 hours, I am working for the next 7-8

[ZZZX]

I will read up within the next 12 hours, I am working for the next 7-8

Ah so I'll catch you when I finish work myself then, nice.

Just to not risk a premature hammer I'll remove my vote

UNVOTE: Passenger

No need to worry anyway, Medic moved their vote, so it was an E2 anyway

[ZZZX]

SO how about we dont hammer anyone until I do what I said I will do, and read up a bit more soon? Just saying.

Would rather not repeat last day's charades

[ZZZX]

Reading now before bed.

[ZZZX]

AnimatedWiz: I believe they are town, my strongest read in fact, I believe starting the mass claim is not a move scum would do there, because the game was in the perfect state as scum, In fact, if I were scum I would be estatic to just, leave it there, or simply hard push RN if he wasn't scum and I was since it was free. I like How Animated appeared, and how they carried on the game.

Passenger: I like thier reads after the whole RN charade, but it felt almost too good, reading on, I really find the whole push he did for the 'Two Mafia Neighbors' a bit weird, I mean, this game was in review for a while so... maybe? I don't know if he is scum, would he try to clear me and Animated unless he was buddies with Animated, which considering animated is my strongest town read, I am unsure. I mean, he *could* be trying to pocket me perhaps? Very Neutral read here, not null, just neutral and a bit conflcited here

Jackson: Well well, he started the game just like NM does, and for someone with 'Tactical lurker' as their sig, they ain't very good at it with 100 posts this game haha. I like him questioning my posts, although I don't agree with their logic but I can see it Actually, now that I think of it, two scums in a neighborhood, with a backup town neighbor sounds very, very interesting. Obviously he still doesnt like me too much haha, so reading on.. I do think that Jackson is prob town. If not in a hurry, I am happy to answer your points about why I am not scum but I'd rather use this time before I sleep to get more reads on others.


Reading the others now in a minute

[ZZZX]

Snake: Snake oh snake, this slot is very null, hes just existing, barely active, and all we have is the neighbor claim, I haven't seen if the neighbors claimed any discussions they had, which seems... weird? Null/Lean scum here

THS: Decent early game, I like his claim but easy to be a fake claim, but I haven't been active enough to tell you whether thats balanced for the setup or not. ANother person who doesnt like me much, but I am used to that by now. Not a strong read, but a weak lean town.

RN: just drops in, hammered, and then didn't do as much, To be fair, him having a PR could make sense, although it is again fake-able, and I am not sure a town PR would do so, unless to avoid getting NK'd? Hard to say really. Him targetting HuTao makes sense since Hu didn't talk much, making a good target to investiage. Another Neutral read here. Can't make my mind up.


Well... me not having any strong scum reads is a bit annoying innit.

I think scum is probably more in the inactive peeps here, I don't scum read Passenger much, but I don't have any strong scum-reads so, it will have do

I dropped my thoughts here, and I am fine with this elim, lets call it a night, since the day is basically ending in 24ish hours anyway

VOTE: Passenger

[ZZZX]

2+2=4-3=1, with that out of the way, lets see how things look:


Not Voting (5): JacksonVirgo, the worst, Random Nurse, ZZZX, AnimatedWiz

with RN's results, Wiz cannot be scum unless its RN/Wiz pairing, there is a possibility that RN might be trying to pocket Wiz, but it would seem weird, I would've expected scum-RN to fake a 'positive' read on me and try to win here and now, but I have a few things in my mind, and thing have been... interesting. I will await some information for sure.

So the way it is, is either 2 scum in Jackson, the worst, RN, or RN, Wiz pairing.

Let me reply to a few messages seperately to help my short as hell attention span

[ZZZX]

i've just skimmed. if anyone is not locked on me being scum in the hood, please work with me. this isn't going to be easy by any stretch but this game is still winnable.



zzzx is just not an easy read. they have done very little this game. they were a passive presence on d1, picked a fight with rn over mechanical play instead of solving d2, and their end of day readlist feels largely very safe, and in part an excuse to pivot onto a passenger lim which they had already decided on before they actually did their catch-up? without the mechanical information we had i think i'd be null/scum on this slot and kinda just drag zzzx about their behaviour d2 but like. as it stands, pending rn's confirmation, i'm pretty sure zzzx is also confirmed scum to me. so there's that.

jackson has turned this game around in a way which is just, like, very scum-aligned. their slot was the larger wagon at the time of their replace-in, their pred did not look great and they did need to do something to turn it around. their catchup posts were superficially fine, but what they actually accomplished were:
- establishing blue as potential hoodscum, pretty much ignoring the 2x scum hood analysis? .... which like, as a townie in the hood, this feels fairly pertinent to me but i'll circle back to this
- establishing passenger as potential hoodscum, and then ultimately heavily driving this read based on passenger being "caught in a lie". this is a fairly common scum tactic where they latch onto a perceived untruth at the expense of further solving.
- sets zzzx up as a scumread, and does a lot to be seen to be scumreading them. but never actually pushes zzzx. jackson briefly voted for zzzx, but you can see they take the first opportunity to shift off this wagon.

none of these present as earnest scumreads. there is also a marked difference in the way jackson manoeuvres around zzzx's slot vs. the way they talk about my slot and passenger. they are doing as much as they can to keep doors for potential eliminations open, rather than actually find townreads & limit the pool of suspects.

the way they ignore the conversation about a potential 2x scum hood is also pinging because fmpov it's clearly in jackson's best interest to let that wifom live on in the hopes that if they are caught, i'm still a viable misyeet after them.



i also think blue was really towny? their day one posts weren't exactly groundbreaking, but i don't think their reads presented as made-up and i think it's noticeable that they were approaching this game from a perspective of sorting alignments, not a perspective of making friends and getting by. their day two posts also feel really pure from where i stand - they read as someone who was manipulated, not the manipulator.




i'm going to keep this pretty summary. i'm wary that this is literally confirmed fmpov. i doubt that me extensively casing a jv/zzzx team is all that valuable, and i doubt that extensively towncasing blue is going to be all that helpful. i kind of need to know where y'all are at right now.

I would argue that I have done relatively little because the game was absolutely dead, I tried to push it further but that wasn't possible, I went on V/LA, and the game post count tripled in length, so more than 2/3s of the posts that matter happened while I was on V/LA. You can argue that its an excuse, and it might, but the fact is that it was how it went.

[ZZZX]

Well... me not having any strong scum reads is a bit annoying innit.

Lack of reads is a common scum-tell owo.

Also, why would you open up discussion only to just hammer and stop the discussion?

Well, a few reasons to be fair:

1- The game was stalled just because I asked to provide my thoughts before we hammer, which I did
2- After catching up, out of everyone, I agreed personally with the current person driven to E-1, and I had none else I suspected further
3- There was a day left, and I didnt want to see any more schenanigans, I didn't trust non-funny stuff to not happen.

You may say its not ideal, and sure, but at least I didnt hammer without a word in the first few pages at day 1 I wasn't planning for scum to try and find a flash wagon on me or anyone else in case Passenger was one of them, although on the hindsight scum would've had a bit more resistance there? Well, hindsight is 20/20 I suppose

[ZZZX]

Well... me not having any strong scum reads is a bit annoying innit.

Lack of reads is a common scum-tell owo.

Also, why would you open up discussion only to just hammer and stop the discussion?

Additionally, I am fully aware that a lack of scum reads is a common scum-tell, but unfortuantely I am not gonna bullshit my reads while town to avoid looking suspecious, I'd rather tell you honestly my thoughts, and maybe its me being rusty after years of not playing, maybe its an effect of this game's messed up status, or perhaps it is simply a bad cheeseburger I had at some point, But I did not have any real scum reads

[ZZZX]

i also think blue was really towny? their day one posts weren't exactly groundbreaking, but i don't think their reads presented as made-up and i think it's noticeable that they were approaching this game from a perspective of sorting alignments, not a perspective of making friends and getting by. their day two posts also feel really pure from where i stand - they read as someone who was manipulated, not the manipulator.

If you don’t mind me asking, who do you feel manipulated Blue?

Also, it seems to me like the general consensus is some combination of ZZZX, Jackson, and worst is our scumteam, which isn’t horrible odds for us to pick from—2/3 is better than 2/5 for sure.

I don't think a single person overtly manipulated Blue. Honestly, scum rarely do overtly manipulate townies. I think townies are usually manipulated by a scum-led gamestate, rather than by a specific member of the scumteam.

In a sense, I can see two scenarios:

Scum manipulated the game state by... doing nothing while it was dead.

Or RN crashing the game with his D1 hammer, and creating the mass claim plan into scanning his teammate to try and guaranty a win (Since I suppose it is easier to 'create' a confirmed townie than to force the game into a 1v1 now that I think about it)

[ZZZX]

This is truly a frustrating choice for voting, because it feels like all my choices have been a bit scummy.

Jackson’s been posting so much that it feels like they’re actively attempting to bury other arguments, worst’s predecessor generated little but scumreads for the whole game, and ZZZX has voted a lot but said little about it. Even Nurse has played his cards so close to his chest that I can’t even read him too well, though I do feel like I can trust him still.

That's a... weird observation. Might you explain?

I checked, I had 5 voting posts, one of which was an accidental double post, so 4, and 2(3) of the votes were D1 RVS votes. So I in total had 2 actual votes, the NM E-2 vote, and the hammer. And I am sure I had context for both

[ZZZX]

Well, mostly I just am trying to figure out what pairings make sense, since that’s probably the best tool here.

I feel like ZZZX and Blue working together since early on makes me consider them as a likely scumteam, but I can’t discount the possibility that Bianco would

definitely

consider having a double-scum neighborhood for how funny that would be. I suppose that, since both of those possibilities include the worst, he’s not a bad choice as a target.

Plus, if he flips as an Informed Wolf Neighbor, we know it’s almost certainly the second possibility—eliminating ZZZX just doesn’t seem to be as reasonable right now.

Well I find this interesting, in a sense, if Wiz is scum I would've expected him to go for me as the easiest MissLim in the game at this point, with how Jackson likes me, and Wiz/RN, I would think thats an easy finish for them, so I will like to believe Wiz is town.

And if RN is a traffic analyser, it is interesting, https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ic_Analyst

So it definitely wasn't blocked (since blocked message is different), and it would also indicate that Wiz is Vanilla likely, or at least not any of the neighborhood roles (which makes sense), mafia, mailman, or any similar roles (I hoped that page would give a longer list of roles results, but I guess it is a normal anyway so I shouldn't expect anything too exciting)

[ZZZX]

Barring anything too interesting, I'd expect a 'the worst' and 'jackson' duo, although I wouldn't be too surprised if RN was scum, and at least for now, I will take a shot in the dark and believe that Wiz is town, but I will probably re-read everyone again because its at that point where it is worth undertaking

[ZZZX]

Well, I really dislike you voting now, because if you are wrong and both scum come on, we lose, and if JV is scum, that puts a big questionmark from my side on who his buddy would be.. Like It cannot be anything other than JV/RN if you aren't simply hard bussing.

Questions questions..

[ZZZX]

Well, this is annoying. There's clearly 2 Scum within Worst, JV, and ZZZX.

How the fuck am I supposed to tell who is the Townie?

Did all 3 of you full-claim already?

Yes, everyone claimed (I am vanilla, and I believe the other two were neighbor buddies?),

Although I have a hunch that someone is either lying or not telling the entire truth, and I am not sure

why

.

[ZZZX]

In fact, if Random Nurse is town, it puts a really weird situation with regards to that vote,

If RN is town, then Wiz is definitely town, and fmpov, that only leaves JV Worst as the duo.

Would worst risk a JV bus at this point? I guess, maybe if he doesn't have the confidence that he can out-do Wiz/RN, and needs to somehow get something out.. But I'd think they'd try to push me.

It just isn't clicking for me.

[ZZZX]

Honestly, I've re-read RN, and I will say he is town, And if he is scum it is well played, all his actions make sense and such.

Additionally, if neither JV or Worst are scum this game is already lost, and I would've expected RN/Wiz scum to result in RN not posting until he can get in touch with Wiz.

BUT there is one missing piece of the puzzle, and I still cant wrap my head around it. I will not vote yet because I honestly think it is irresponsible to vote this early in the game, I really dislike that you did so, Worst.

[ZZZX]

FMPOV I am willing to vote Jackson or worst, but not yet.

[ZZZX]

It just doesnt make sense for the worst and JV to be together, whats the plan?? to NK wiz and try to convince me that RN is scum? That doesnt make sense, it would take an epic flipflop on his reads.. To make RN suspect me? Also doesnt make sense, RN will check me that night.. And an RN NK results in wiz being cleared, and the game then being me, wiz and him? I mean, thats the only "reasonable" answer, but I am just not convinced, unless his plan is to win town-cred for it?

[ZZZX]

If there are any secret PRs with results, NOW is the time to share them.

+1

[ZZZX]

If the team is JV/Worst then why would Worst be voting JV in MLLO?

Thats the source of my dilemma

[ZZZX]

ZZZX, who claimed to be Neighbors again?

Wasn't it JV/Worst?

[ZZZX]

Let me double check

[ZZZX]

I'm going to drop this role claim list here so that everyone can refer to it later as needed:

Not_Mafia: Villager
Hu Tao: Villager

AnimatedWiz: Villager
ZZZX: Villager
BlueSnakelet: Neighbor
TheHoldSteady: Indecisive Doctor
Random Nurse: Lazy Traffic Analyst
JacksonVirgo: Neighbor
Passenger: Backup Neighbor

P.S. This is in order of claim, with me claiming first and Passenger last. Not_Mafia and Hu Tao are included to be thorough.

Let me see

[ZZZX]

So yes, they are indeed the neighbors.

I am somewhat interested by the lack of discussion of what happened inside the neighborhood, (Unless I am suffering from memory lane)

[ZZZX]

i am just a neighbour

just noting for the record that zzzx is doing the same thing where they are keeping JV in their pool without finding any reason to suspect JV.

also shade at me for voting too early? like what excuse me? i just spent like two pages outlining the fact that unless i accept rn as scum -- which i've talked through why i don't at length - my POE is literally JV/zzzx

i get that this is easy to go at me for because voting too early ~ ~ looks bad ~ ~ but it seems really clear to me that zzzx is not doing anything different. like unless they're considering RN then the game is on lock for them too? their posting just reads as disingenuous

The reason I have you both in my pool is basic process of elim, that was the fact that if neither you or JV are scum, then the game is already lost. That, and I honestly think that RN is most likely town, but I have questions.

I think I was quite clear about it actually

[ZZZX]

But we had a neighbor claim before the backup neighbor which was itneresting.

[ZZZX]

@worst, what discussions happened in the neighborhood?

[ZZZX]

Give us in as much detail as possible, day by day, what the discussions there were.

[ZZZX]

ZZZX what's your current reads list please, if you're willing?

Sure, just give me 10, finishing a game of league

[ZZZX]

My strongest town read is Wiz, I town read him even before the traffic result, and I did check the wiki, and as long as he is vanilla or a non communicating power role, there shouldnt be anything fishy. (If he is playing a role that can communicate what so ever in any way shape or form, he should've mentioned it by now, and I take the lack of him mentioning it to indicate that, no. He isn't). The only way he is scum due to the way things are, is a RN/Wiz combo, which I've discussed earlier. If thats the case well, it is a well deserved win. I am willing to consider Wiz as confirmed town from my pov

Second here is RN, but this is more tricky. I feel like the entire process of RN's posts makes sense with the knowledge of being PR (early game play), trying to not get NK'd, the process of initially scum reading then investigating Wiz makes sense, although it was... a bit too sudden and a bit too "perfect" timing-wise. So its a lean, but I wouldnt be surprised. I'd say the RN/Wiz interactions didn't feel like staged SvS,

Jackson I don't really have a solid read on, I mentioned earlier. He doesn't like me much, but I can't see any red alarm there, I need to re-read him.

The worst... well, I can tell you the vote is ballsy if nothing else, will scum do that vote? I can't say, i like his content, but it isn't much to make a read on, I need to re-read his pred. posts to decide. But If I had to choose between worst and Jackson, I'd vote Jackson at this point.

[ZZZX]

No need to rush

[ZZZX]

Lmao zzz literally just said he TRs wiz and RN, had no read on me (aka SRs worst) and then said he’d vote me over worst, lmao

I can explain it with one word,

GUT

[ZZZX]

Jackson I don't really have a solid read on, I mentioned earlier. He doesn't like me much, but I can't see any red alarm there, I need to re-read him.

The worst... well, I can tell you the vote is ballsy if nothing else, will scum do that vote? I can't say, i like his content, but it isn't much to make a read on, I need to re-read his pred. posts to decide. But If I had to choose between worst and Jackson, I'd vote Jackson at this point.

Lmao zzz literally just said he TRs wiz and RN, had no read on me (aka SRs worst) and then said he’d vote me over worst, lmao

OK I need some follow-through on this, ZZZX.

I have no real reason for either, and I just simply feel worst is more geniune, I wish I can bullshit you a reason, but I don't, maybe if I re-read them and their pred. I can tell you, but I have just about run outta time I am willing to put into the game for now. Until tonight or smthing. I need lunch soon

[ZZZX]

Sure, but just to reply to something @worst:
"
(1) decided that he was going to fakeclaim an investigative town power role on d1
"
He didn't, he claimed it D2, after the mass claim. He was the least like NK target on N1

[ZZZX]

Also, sure, I "lurked" (I was V/LA) for a portion of the day, but I am sure my 75 posts, reads of some sorts, and my discussions are worth a read on me with more words than just one?

[ZZZX]

I mean, my thoughts now are: Yesterday's end, Jackson was pretty fine for me, I like his approach with passenger, but I find him today so... weird? Like he proved he is around and reading, and with his general activity I would've expected him to push his scum-reads or something, namely me since I am the person he has been suspecting the most.

I will be honest, most of my gut is about the worst's vote, It put a target on his head, narrowed down the stage into a 1-on-1, and it wasn't the easiest (in my opinion) target, I would be wondering why scum-worst would put himself on the spotlight, when he isn't cleared, or even commonly townread. And I feel his reasoning was dumb, but it was something that a town-player might somehow get into,

My worries are still that it is not un-fakeable. and with pre-planning all those things could be pre-discussed. I would wish wiz was around more to hear from someone who I can at least believe to have a town opinion, or if jackson is interacting in some way, shape or form to help me form a decision, but its hard otherwise.

[ZZZX]

I have no real reason for either, and I just simply feel worst is more geniune, I wish I can bullshit you a reason, but I don't, maybe if I re-read them and their pred. I can tell you, but I have just about run outta time I am willing to put into the game for now. Until tonight or smthing. I need lunch soon

Well, this response doesn't help. I was Townreading you but now I'm not sure, and the reason I'm feeling unsure is that it doesn't seem consistent, as JV mentions, and Scum are very typically inconsistent because they're only trying to blend in and don't need to care about solving.

Well, if you are bored and want to dive into some of my older games, you will see that "gut" reads are something I have very very commonly, I cannot explain every read, althou I can try to. and my thoughts about a read can shift as situations change.

I had this message as a secret, but I don't see a reason to keep hiding it, I suspect the game might end before that point. There is a mailman in the game, and they asked me to put an equation in my first post today to confirm I recieved the message, and I tried to hint throughout the day for them to claim.

At this point, I am very confused about the current status of the setup, hence why I tried to hint at Wiz if he was a mailman and didn't know he should be "positive", to claim it. But it seems he isn't. And that pick does make sense with a traffic analyser in the game, soo... yea.

[ZZZX]

Zzzx what decision are you trying to make here

I am trying to figure out who is scum, and how. My current reads indicate worst/JV, while logically its RN/other of the others from the fact that a worst/JV might force a

lim

between the two and doing that as scum is, well, a play but not an ideal one. And I am trying to figure out which is which

E: censored L****

[ZZZX]

Zzzx what decision are you trying to make here

I am trying to figure out who is scum, and how. My current reads indicate worst/JV, while logically its RN/other of the others from the fact that a worst/JV might force a

lim

between the two and doing that as scum is, well, a play but not an ideal one. And I am trying to figure out which is which

Sorry, slipped

[ZZZX]

Fuck me, I need to calm down and slow down. I cannot afford to not proof read every message of mine. Sorry.

[ZZZX]

Well, I'd been pushing for that for a while now, yet I had nothing.

Did anyone else receive a message from the mailman?

So, its either a:

Neighbor Mailman (mafia)? sounds like a very weird role of a mess

Mailman RN or Wiz? A mailman Wiz only works agian, if its RN/Wiz.

I donno, I don't think its something worth looking too much into but at this point Its worth pointing out.

[ZZZX]

I just want you both to know that when you do slip up I will tear into you deeply.

I'm noticing a lot more than I'm saying right now, but I want you three to keep staying active and posting, and eventually one or both of you will be mine.

And yes, I'll be expecting excuses to not be posting.

Well, we have 5 days+, 2 of the 5 players have barely, if at all, commented on the game state which annoys me regarding of their alignment, and I am a busy man, and the only reason I can be around right now is because I took today off to go to the dentist. So no rush, you will get as many ZZZX's stream of thoughts messages as you need In time.

[ZZZX]

Zzzx what are the odds of an rn/annie scumteam? It feels like, very very wrong to me but I'm suddenly kinda anxious about a quickhammer

Well, if its a RN/Annie scumteam, its likely we would've been already fucked,

Although, I will admit, that RN vote and unvote was a bit suspect, but I would like to believe Wiz is town.

ALTHOUGH, Wiz disappearance here is very, very suspect. But I still town-read Wiz from earlier, sooo....

It is a possibility

[ZZZX]

Whenever I see the post is X44 for some reason my lizard brain thinks the next post is going to be a pagetop, dunno why exactly.

I've already done this a bunch of time this game, sorry for the // spam that has resulted

Well, our mod does have the 2nd highest post count in the game haha. But its fine

[ZZZX]

But honestly, I still don't think he would've unvoted within a single minute, he would've given it a few longer I'd assume?

[ZZZX]

Well, I'd been pushing for that for a while now, yet I had nothing.

Did anyone else receive a message from the mailman?

So, its either a:

Neighbor Mailman (mafia)? sounds like a very weird role of a mess

Mailman RN or Wiz? A mailman Wiz only works agian, if its RN/Wiz.

I donno, I don't think its something worth looking too much into but at this point Its worth pointing out.

What message did you receive?

Paraphrased: Put a math equation in your first message to confirm secretly that you recieved this message

[ZZZX]

Which now on the hindsight, doesn't make sense for a town to use his mailman on, without any information what so ever

[ZZZX]

Zzzx what are the odds of an rn/annie scumteam? It feels like, very very wrong to me but I'm suddenly kinda anxious about a quickhammer

Well, if its a RN/Annie scumteam, its likely we would've been already fucked,

Although, I will admit, that RN vote and unvote was a bit suspect, but I would like to believe Wiz is town.

ALTHOUGH, Wiz disappearance here is very, very suspect. But I still town-read Wiz from earlier, sooo....

It is a possibility

If we were the Scumteam the game would've been over hours ago.

Well, unless somehow Wiz didn't find the time or will to check the scum-pt for some reason beyond me.

But lets be honest, that chance is so minor, that if that was what happened, we deserve to lose anyway

[ZZZX]

Well, I'd been pushing for that for a while now, yet I had nothing.

Did anyone else receive a message from the mailman?

So, its either a:

Neighbor Mailman (mafia)? sounds like a very weird role of a mess

Mailman RN or Wiz? A mailman Wiz only works agian, if its RN/Wiz.

I donno, I don't think its something worth looking too much into but at this point Its worth pointing out.

What message did you receive?

Paraphrased: Put a math equation in your first message to confirm secretly that you recieved this message

I received a message Night 1 asking me to put "got it" in my first post.

I believe you, because you were the other person other than me who was trying to "indicate" that anyone with a hidden PR claim.

[ZZZX]

I think the Mailman needs to reveal who they are.

Now.

I do have a few thoughts and am quite curious, but I honestly want to hear from worst/Jackson first.

Is either of you the mailman?

[ZZZX]

Yea, i think without hearing from the rest we are simply going in circles, I will go eat, rest, and see how this thread moves ahead at the evening. ill still check while eating but unless I see something I really need to comment on, I will most likely not bother for a few hours.

[ZZZX]

VOTE: The Worst[/b]

You

do

know that unless you are scum, or both JV and Worst are scum, we lose with this?

[ZZZX]

VOTE: The Worst[/b]

You

do

know that unless you are scum, or both JV and Worst are scum, we lose with this?

I know.

I'm not Scum.

Jackson, come on in and post.

Well, you like to live on the edge.

I like it.

[ZZZX]

Aka egopost, will catch up soon

Quoted for attention

And no, preemptively before this question is asked, if I wanted to do this if we were both scum to get him to come and vote, he would get a notification if I send this in a scum-pt.

[ZZZX]

If Jackson doesn't come in and vote Worst along with you, then I will be killing your partner today and either I or Wiz will be killing you Day 4.

If the Scum ARE you and Jackson then well-played.

So, you are indicating that you think I am scum regardless?

[ZZZX]

In fact I dont think I even make logic of what yoj are trying to say. The more i read it the less i get it.

Well, lets see where things go. Me and jackson wont quick hammer since I am town with no motiviation to, so I really find your tone shift weird.

None, should speed run the vote here. So if Jackson is town he should not vote. Neither should he if worst is scum, so I dont see what you are trying here

[ZZZX]

I

do

know that if you and JV don't rapid-vote to end this game then I'll know Worst is Scum.

Well, that much is obvious, yes. Yet your post indicated thay that happening means by default that I am scum and I was quite curious about the logic shift to thet there.

Or maybe I need to redo english comprehension

[ZZZX]

Bianco sniping the page tops haha

[ZZZX]

I

do

know that if you and JV don't rapid-vote to end this game then I'll know Worst is Scum.

Well, that much is obvious, yes. Yet your post indicated thay that happening means by default that I am scum and I was quite curious about the logic shift to thet there.

Or maybe I need to redo english comprehension

Perhaps my gut speaks to me that you're inconsistent which reads to me as being Scum.

If that's the case then you will have to be extremely careful or I will get you too before Worst's elimination. Let him know in your PT he needs to stop being a chicken.

*schrug*

[ZZZX]

Well, in any case it is boring when its me and you running a two man show. Hopefully jackson posts more than one post, or we hear from wiz.

I hate not know if we lost the game or not simply because I have no idea if half the playerlist in fucking MislimLo isnt bothering to be here. So by this point the amount of fucks I have is going dry

[ZZZX]

Well, in any case it is boring when its me and you running a two man show. Hopefully jackson posts more than one post, or we hear from wiz.

I hate not know if we lost the game or not simply because I have no idea if half the playerlist in fucking MislimLo isnt bothering to be here. So by this point the amount of fucks I have is going dry

As I suspected you are caught Scum, and I've been slowly devouring your will to keep going.

Once Worst is dead and gone both Wiz and Jackson will take you down, and I will be enjoying every minute of it from the depths of HELL.

JUST GIVE UP. You're already

dead

.

I am terrified, shaking! Oh no! My grand plans have failed!

Anyway

[ZZZX]

Tick tock tick tock

[ZZZX]

Jackson, you're online right now.

Come in and post!

Oh I forgot to say it here too. Ima copy paste

Hey, Ima be transparent without spilling my life story as this is a game but I've gotta take care of my mum and she lives out in the middle of woop woop so I won't have much internet for a bit, if at all (service is dog water out that way). 72 hours max but really shouldn't be that long. Sorry guys, surely you understand.

All good mate. Just set your VLA if in doubt.

So me and Jackson are confirmed non scum together

[ZZZX]

Glad this is sorted so i can nap in peace

Catch ya later

Pedit: sigh xD

[ZZZX]

Fine. Ill wait 10 minutes to satisfy you. Lol

[ZZZX]

Ok, I lied, 5 minutes it will be. Im too tired.

Catch ya later

[ZZZX]

FMPOV Wiz is Town.

Vote's on Worst. Both ZZZX and JV have posted since my vote, and did not hammer. It's still possible JV is Scum and is going to wait 3 days before he and ZZX hammer Worst for game, but that's doubtful. I find it hard to believe Scum ZZX and JV would just simply wait and do nothing.

Animated Wiz, please vote for Worst. Then I guess we'll be waiting for JV to hammer Worst.

I've done that like once, like.... 8-9 years ago? It was funny to do at least once, but its a bucket list item basically And is technically playing against our win con if we were both scum

[ZZZX]

Also, to confirm for all, Wiz and I aren't both Scum because we would have been hammering Worst immediately right now.

Well, I can confirm that you could've hammered Jackson, not the worst, but semantics.

So WIz is confirmed town

[ZZZX]

I'm planning to hammer. I don't think you're a wolf but you claimed TA and barely had any response to the existence of a Mailman. Why is that?

Does it give a positive result to Traffic Analyst?

If so, I actually didn't know that.

I just got the letter, followed the command, but I felt it really didn't mean much or do anything.

I did talk about it and linked the wiki, and checked with the mod regarding that point, hence a lot of my previous posts to wiz,

[ZZZX]

Well, mostly I just am trying to figure out what pairings make sense, since that’s probably the best tool here.

I feel like ZZZX and Blue working together since early on makes me consider them as a likely scumteam, but I can’t discount the possibility that Bianco would

definitely

consider having a double-scum neighborhood for how funny that would be. I suppose that, since both of those possibilities include the worst, he’s not a bad choice as a target.

Plus, if he flips as an Informed Wolf Neighbor, we know it’s almost certainly the second possibility—eliminating ZZZX just doesn’t seem to be as reasonable right now.

Well I find this interesting, in a sense, if Wiz is scum I would've expected him to go for me as the easiest MissLim in the game at this point, with how Jackson likes me, and Wiz/RN, I would think thats an easy finish for them, so I will like to believe Wiz is town.

And if RN is a traffic analyser, it is interesting, https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ic_Analyst

So it definitely wasn't blocked (since blocked message is different), and it would also indicate that Wiz is Vanilla likely, or at least not any of the neighborhood roles (which makes sense), mafia, mailman, or any similar roles (I hoped that page would give a longer list of roles results, but I guess it is a normal anyway so I shouldn't expect anything too exciting)

[ZZZX]

Also if JV was Scum and Worst was Town, JV would have hammered immediately for game.

So there's no way both he and ZZZX are Scum. It's one of the other.

Interesting, that is indeed true,

So this either confirms that the Worst is scum for sure, or that someone is playing with their food

[ZZZX]

Here's why I think ZZZ is the Mailman though.

1. It can't be Wiz due to your check.
2. It can't be you because mechanically it doesn't make sense. It's also confirmed to not be you and ZZZ I think due to being in hammer range.
3. It can't be the neighbours as the same reason as RN it doesn't make sense. They're already clear from the TA. And the TA is the focus of this setup hence why the doc and the neighbours all exist.
4. What scum mailman would target ZZZ last night. That makes zero sense

Well, considering the mail man messages are:

1- Consistently useless
2- Irrelevant and consistent in format.

I do not think who they targetted matters, let me see

[ZZZX]

Why am I thinking Wiz is still wolf here. Is there a way?

Is it possible it's a sole scum + traitor? Is that normal eligible?

Extremely convuloted for that to happen, and I would argue go against a normal game if the town has a traffic analyser, and then the maf doesnt ring positive.

[ZZZX]

By page 30, my thoughts are:

There is a general assumption that RN would be killed instead of Wiz, I think that ingenious to be fair

I think from everyone's POV the worst is already confirmed scum, since everyone had a chance to hammer him if he wasn't, so the discussion is up around who is with him, and the end game will probably be:

Me, Jackson, and RN

[ZZZX]

By page 30, my thoughts are:

There is a general assumption that RN would be killed instead of Wiz, I think that ingenious to be fair

I think from everyone's POV the worst is already confirmed scum, since everyone had a chance to hammer him if he wasn't, so the discussion is up around who is with him, and the end game will probably be:

Me, Jackson, and RN

Why are you assuming RN will be killed? Also yes Ducky is a wolf.

No, RN was assuming he will be killed, he keeps talking about wanting to help Wiz sort out hte game before he is killed (RN is killed),

and I am simply saying that this is not how it will probably go

[ZZZX]

I just got no faith anymore. I feel we lose once we flip a wolf, which is a preposterous idea and it kills me to my very core. Imagine getting into the mindset of thinking we lose if we flip a wolf, that's literally insane.

Why do you sound so... hesitant?

I do agree we need to solve this game today, if we flip wolf, we need to know our next move clearly. but you seem to be really dancing around the topic somehow.

[ZZZX]

If you're one to genuinely believe the possibility that that absolute clusterfuck is more likely than ZZZ being mailman, it's proven to me that you cannot reliably solve this game and therefore I'm probably not going to try to play going into tomorrow. A simple occam's razor destroys your entire thing and yet you pretty much stand by it. It actually baffles me how much you're confirmation-biased.

I think being the one who is forcing the entire discussion of the mailman, which if I was the mailman has ZERO benefits for me, alone proves my point. We already know the mailman is scum, due to their lack of claims, but we also have no real info, hence what I eventually said, mailman should be considered a non-factor eventually with the information we had, because there is one of three cases only:

1- I was a one-shot scum mailman (???) and I wasted it on RN
2- Both me and RN are scum and we are cooking something (already proven it can't be me and RN)
3- Today I used the mailman on the NK target since none else claimed getting mail, yet I didnt do anything else with the mail

Yea it just makes no sense what so ever

[ZZZX]

ZZZX and JV are the two claimed Neighbors, and they both cannot be Scum or they would have hammered by now.

Therefore, the Neighborhood MUST exist because why would a Town Neighbor lie?

So Worst and JV slots claimed Neighbors.

IF Worst flips as Scum but NOT a Neighbor, THEN that would mean JV lied about being a Neighbor.

SO, we need to know whether or not Worst is a Neighbor. That fact could break this game wide open.

I think the chance of them both not being neighbors is close to nil, thats a very dumb claim since one getting elim'd means insta losing, idk

[ZZZX]

1) We eliminate Worst today and discern if he is a Neighbor or not.

2) If he's not a Neighbor it means you're dead.

3) If he is a Neighbor then it's now a toss between you or ZZZX.

4) If Wiz is alive in endgame he should be the one to vote last, because he's confTown.

5) If Wiz is in endgame it's up to him to thoroughly analyze both of you two to come to the best conclusion, BUT ALSO remember that in endgame the player you suspect the least is most likely to be Scum.

6) If

*I*

am the one left alive in endgame, having to sort you two... well, may God have mercy on your souls.

Well, #6 is the likely outcome, and it will definitely feel like a wild west shootout, Even now, I have my doubts and questions, what IF RN bussing Worst, what if? But to be fair a lot of that is probably paranoia, so lets see

[ZZZX]

If you're one to genuinely believe the possibility that that absolute clusterfuck is more likely than ZZZ being mailman, it's proven to me that you cannot reliably solve this game and therefore I'm probably not going to try to play going into tomorrow. A simple occam's razor destroys your entire thing and yet you pretty much stand by it. It actually baffles me how much you're confirmation-biased.

I think being the one who is forcing the entire discussion of the mailman, which if I was the mailman has ZERO benefits for me, alone proves my point. We already know the mailman is scum, due to their lack of claims, but we also have no real info, hence what I eventually said, mailman should be considered a non-factor eventually with the information we had, because there is one of three cases only:

1- I was a one-shot scum mailman (???) and I wasted it on RN
2- Both me and RN are scum and we are cooking something (already proven it can't be me and RN)
3- Today I used the mailman on the NK target since none else claimed getting mail, yet I didnt do anything else with the mail

Yea it just makes no sense what so ever

Those aren't the only options. You seem to be really discrediting the first option so let me pull that one apart. What stops it from being a combined role. Combined X-Mailman.

If I had a one-shot mailman, instead of using it in any way to pocket another person, to sow paranoia, I...

told RN to say "Got it?" ?

[ZZZX]

I am almost insulted you think of me that boring

[ZZZX]

Well, I am happy enough with the discussion to personally go for the lim, anyone else got anything to add? I won't vote yet so none quick hammers before wiz/RN adds their thoughts

[ZZZX]

I think the chance of them both not being neighbors is close to nil, thats a very dumb claim since one getting elim'd means insta losing, idk

Lmao, it coming from you is hilarious but thank you. It's really dumb

I have been very clear about my thoughts this entire game, and I am not afraid to express my opinions, even when it seems like ti benefits me more not to. Town has less reason to bullshit ;P

[ZZZX]

Do me a favor, what was a LAMIST arguement?

[ZZZX]

"Look at me, I'm so townie"

Ah, I see.

Well my mafia vocab is still not on point after my long haitus, thanks

[ZZZX]

Sure,

lets end this day, and see how things go.

VOTE: the worst

[ZZZX]

Well, I surely have a lot to write. But it wont give it justice ti write it now. Taking care of moving and giving back my old apartment. So within the next day or two, ill say my piece, and we can have it all sorted. Fair?

I see both of you are also a bit busy. Kinda funny spot to be in haha

[ZZZX]

Yes, And I apologize for the inconvenience.

I am writing up something as we speak, didn't have as much time as I would've liked, nor am I honestly in a state to write anything, but I will do what I can

[ZZZX]

So, Here is my case study on why Jackson is scum, those points are not ordered in terms of importance, and I had more structures, quotes, etc in mind. and I am happy to expand on any point, but to be completely honest, I just had 32 hours without sleep, and 10 hours of travel, and I can't care enough to look up everything, but I am happy to look up points if needed. I haven't fact checked much of what I wrote, and I am happy to discuss if I say any fact incorrectly. So don't take anything I saw for granted if you want to and double check them, but I am fairly confident about most, if not all, points mentioned below. Also, I tried to use the post tag but it just broke and I couldn't figure out how to make it work, nor could I really quote things. So pardon the headache and check the posts manually, please. I did try to bbcode it a bit to make it more readable

In the beginning, I will also introduce the way I like to read people, by reading their *intentions*, I do not believe there are actions which are inheriently scummy, and I like to look at *why* a person does a certain thing, and to gather their general intents throughout the game, now it is hard to read at one part, but often you can see a pattern that makes it very clear.

I will also answer Jackson's notes in my next post. I haven't really read any of them, and I want this post to be unrelated to his thoughts. which I will undertake next.

WIthout further ado:

a- Yesterday's voting phase, and activity.

One of the more interesting things that you will notice is that the worst decided to vote JV, which would obviously cause a situation of JV v TW, but here are a few interesting facts:

i-

Both TW and JV have started the day with casting doubts on me, with TW even have the logic that I am confirmed scum from their POV, yet neither of them tried to vote me here, instead you find TW just voting JV.

ii-

Jackson was reading the thread, proven by post #604 where he commented on my reads, in the same page where you can see he was voted by TW, yet he has nothing to say except that post. He had nothing to comment on TW when it was put to a situation where only he or TW are the prime vote for the day. In fact he casually ignored the entire situation

iii-

Ok, this depends on what you believe in, but I was clearly active, posting one minute after Jackson was put to L-1, without hammering. You can argue I wasn't quick enough, but I have been clearly both fully active at that time (posting a minute later), and looking at my talks with Random at that exact time, I had the time to hammer. But if you want to argue that I tried but I got P-edited or that despite me and random basically turning the chat into an AOL room, I wasn't around for that 1 minute, sure.

iv-

Jackson, despite the entire situation, despite it being a clear situation where either he or the worst is scum, DID NOT VOTE. Even once in the entire day phase. When it was Elim-Lo. Wait, correction, he did once, then immeditely unvoted when he found it is not the hammer. What?

v-

With the voting situation, me and wiz caused the lim to happen, when the day had 6 hours to go. In a situation where we had to lim or we lose. Jackson didn't seem to give a care in the world. Somehow all the motivation for the early hammer, which would result in some town-cred, is gone when the possibility of a no-lim day and an auto win occured.

So here are my thoughts, and you can take a look at both the worst and Jackson's last day's and compare it with this:

The entire day was built on setting up a lim on me today, it was almost "for granted" that TW will flip scum the way it was treated.. Like look f.e. at post 804. I had expressed all of yesterday that it didn't make sense, because TW just blindly voting someone just because they are in the same neighborhood instead of me who was his clear scum read, Jackson attacing me and not trying to push me, point to the fact that they had no confidence to get a good mis-lim today, but to set up another one when RN is dead.

Both me and RN spent most of the day trying to deconstruct the setup, trying to check different pairings, meanwhile, Jackson didn't try to solve the game, and was busy setting the game up further.

b- TMI (Too much information)

I find this the most interesting, because it has two parts:

i-

Setup
You will find it beyond interesting how many things Jackson mentions that you can see with the wolf we lim'd, whether it is from compound roles (even when we had no reason to believe that to exist), complex (only working on non-VTs), and other information that had no reason to really come out. And you can see the difference between that and wiz's post about informed, which ended up being the case, as that was built on a reasoning line that makes sense, having the backup neighbor and what not. meanwhile, you can tell he has information that we didn't have. If you read his posts with the knowledge now, just iso him, and you will see what I mean.

ii-

Night actions and processes.
Logically, in every possible normal world, you expect the confirmed townie to be the lim, and the logical action is to then play around and expect the remaining players, however Jackson's end of day was also very interesting. Where he went to talk to Wiz, and TRY TO CONVINCE RN TO TELL WIZ TO NOT BE BAISED OR WHAT NOT.

In normal situations, this doesn't make sense, why be focused on Wiz? You can have an assumption or an answer to that point, and it might be fair, if not for the method that it was done.

iii-

Reads
I will tell you the quickest difference you can tell between every town and scum in this game, consistency, or lack thereof, with town's lack of information, we play with the assumption that anyone, could be scum. RN, even when he has a clean result on you, still had his questions, even if he didnt seriously consider it, he flip flopped on me like 5 times in the last day. That alone drove me to heavily town read him at that point. Wiz, you even had a similar thing, where you even suspected RN, Jackson had a very clear pin-point focus on me, with very, very little anything regarding TW, in fact looking at #762 and other posts, you can tell that it was a given that TW was scum for him, even though... well, I can't see him talking about TW much if at all? In fact, you spent more time discussing ME, discussing Mailman, where he somehow became an expert at the topic, AFTER me and RN brought it up, over the last 2 days. Just look at #501, his "earnest scum-reads" are me, and passenger. TW? Who is TW even? I

f Jackson is town, it should be obvious that Worst is scum, and in that case he would defend his case his hardest, town would not not-care in lim-lose, scum would not not-case in Scum v Town, the only explination for this dont-care behavior is a planned SvS.

He spent half the day talking about me, limming me, or me being scum, but didn't bother voting. You might ask, why? Well, because after TW's vote, it would result in his being scum being aparent, when none quick hammers me, or Jackson, then by a simple PoE it would mean 100% that jackson is scum. And with the other pairings we had found, it would be a solved game.

c- Setup information

Now, setup is interesting. And other than TMI, multiple people, including you Wiz, mentioned how the setup can work with 2 Maf-Neighbors, with the backup neighbor and the informed modifier. Their neighborhood catch up that we requested was not organic, the entire "interaction" of "regretfully" finding out that one of them will be scum or what not felt fake, and jackson did not act with that in mind. In a sense, it can explain his "confidence" in TW being scum, sure. But will it explain that he took no action, and instead settled to non-care for TW, not even defending himself?

Next, is the mailman, which we have established exists, yet somehow questions that the mailman can be a neighbor (#710) EVEN WHEN HE HIMSELF, MENTIONED THAT COMBINED ROLES EXIST IN THE SAME CONTEX!! #828, its not simply about changing their mind, but about finding an excuse to discredit me, even at the cost of discrediting their own post 30 minutes earlier (!).

Next, back to #828, he mentions about me avoiding claiming it,

when in reality it was me who even set the topic in motion, and the only other person to even mention it was RN, and that was AFTER I mentioned it.

In fact, I will add an interesting sauce to the mix, why were the Mailman messages very unhelpful, nor trying to really set anything up? I believe it is because it is compulsive to send to a non faction member. You might say, ZZZX, isnt that TMI? How would you know?
I find it interesting that I have recieved an empty mail today, with RN recieving one D1, and me on D2. To be fair this isn't as strong of a proof, because it turns back to my words, but would a scum-me not claim a non-scum looking role (Mailman is usually more likely to be town aligned, and it makes sense for it to exist as a scum-claim with the way we saw the roles in this game, or to saw confusion).

In fact, you can tell with both me RN, the moment none claimed mailman, BOTH OF US AGREED THAT THERE WAS NO NEED TO DISCUSS IT FURTHER, it was clear the mailman was scum refusing to claim, and there were no tools in the game to find said Mailman, so it would make more sense to avoid any chaos or bs from the topic. Yet you find Jackson very deep in this topic, hence why I went into it here.

x- Today

I haven't yet read his longer posts, I am going to read that next, but I find #853,

Why?

Wiz is conf town, there is zero universes where you don't want to vote for the other person, especially after you posted your thoughts. That was a pure appeal to emotions, a "Look, I am so nice! I am not scum since I didn't quick vote". Town will always vote and post with the intent to get scum, and a town with a confirmed scum in front of him, will not hesitate to put that vote to use. You can say it is a call to Wiz to not vote until he's heard him out, but he didn't call him out specifically, he called everyone, which shouldn't be the case now, should it?

If you look at yesterday, with the information here, and look at the motivation and intent, the reason why each person posted or voted at any point, it all makes sense. Let me see what Jackson had to say about me now

[ZZZX]

That’s fine by me—I’d like to have us all have a good discussion before we vote anyone.

I admit, currently I am more suspicious of ZZZX since, if you were scum and truly convinced I’d go immediately for you, you would not have left me alive for D4.

Well, I think they believed it will be easier to trick/convince you that RN, and they only did that after softly setting it up throughout half of D3 instead of focusing on whos the current lim

Alright, I was gonna literally just bend over and lose ngl but given that flip I feel like it's more of an insult to my character to bend over and get killed here. Like ducky flipping informed is such a kick in the teeth considering the whole tinfoil around double scum in the neighbourhood and it probably means that I'm fighting an even HARDER uphill battle than I thought I would be fighting (which was enough to make me apathetic towards the game massively D3) but for the sake of all the dead Town, and for myself even I will do my best.

I've written up a bunch of things in the night (not this part) because I thought it pretty safe to do so and from these flips I was correct but the assumption I had writing those posts was that RN is dying and flipped green which leaves me writing everything with the assumption that I will be alive with zzz and Wiz. Which again, turned out exactly how I expected which is such a kick to the gut ngl. I feel defeated and ultimately I feel like Town loses this because of how this is all going out but again for the sake of everybody I will be trying my hardest to not throw this game.

@Wiz

, please give me the light of day and hear me out today and not fall into confirmation bias. You were left alive after you were so passionate about me being wolf and especially being wolf if ducky were to flip Informed. And he did, and I'm royally and hilariously fucked if you don't notice that you were left alive for a reason over the person that was town-reading me. Even if you do think I'm a wolf from this, and I am sure you do, don't vote yet let me try and convey to you that it's actually me that's the Town and I got pretty heavily dogged over from this setup and how everything went down. The stuff below this paragraph is the stuff I wrote during the night and I also wrote some extras but I won't post it in one post (I'm not sure if there's a message character limit), I tried to keep it relatively vague regarding who I am appealing to because I wasn't 100% who was going to die but again I assumed RN was going to die.

--

I recall Wiz saying that I was scummy because I wasn't acting as I was on D2 and I don't wish to use this as an excuse but I wasn't up to my game as I was because my real-life kinda had me in an emotional and somewhat distant state but I'm back to my normal now and fwiw I am sorry for me being super "oh this is so shit, oh I'm giving up" it didn't help my case at all and now I'm fighting the consequences of that. I am now going to put as much effort in as I possibly can to make sure that Town doesn't lose.

I would like to start by saying that I am extremely good and especially consistent at scum, I know that's probably going to come full swing and bite me in the ass but I am not one to make myself appear paired so obviously. Any scum worth their weight in gold would cut their losses and push their confirmed scum partner, but I didn't. I pushed against it because of the long-game (today, me vs zzz that I don't believe I'd win because of your reads), do you think scum of my caliber (I hate sounding this stuck up, please get my intention) would actually pair this hard on a scum partner that was 100% going out? I feel that's quite an insult to my skill to assume such a thing but I promise I will not be upset at you if you choose wrongly here, it is a game after all <3

The entire section with bending over the losing just doesn't make sense. The reaction and mental state in a 3 man is never that, and in fact I am aware this is all an emotional ploy, but I will say it anyway: If you get into a game, and decide to give up in a lim-lo situation, I don't find that acceptable. But in reality this is just emotional talk, intending to just set this entire thing up. The paragraph about the writing with those assumptions is just fake bs.

You can tell already by this point, that all of his setup for last night was for this point, this entire post is just appealing to emotions. and sure, that is something that I myself often do in some games. But here, it is simply a ploy thats built on everything in the last day. I am not going to comment on RL situation, because I understand that happened, but in reality when its proven that you DID read the game, and you WERE aware of being voted, and having no reaction to that. You didn't give up, you went "lets setup ZZZX, talk about a random note about ZZZX reads!" instead of putting your reads, talking about TW situation, or anything else of use.

And lets not do the entire "I am a super star scum" defence.


More incoming in a few minutes

[ZZZX]

My apologies Jackson, I haven't paid attention.

[ZZZX]

Regarding a quick case of ZZZ, I didn't put a super duper lotta effort in as I can't really quote stuff when the thread is locked so writing stuff by hand is really frustrating but this is what I got so far. Outlining his early game primarily which is where a lot of his discrepancies compared to his late-game where he has his direction (aka needs me dead). I also did get some mid to late game references in here that I did want to discuss. I wrote this in about half an hour though so like it isn't

everything

Anyway here's the case

32 is them being incredibly apprehensive for jumping into the conversation, and considering their recent demeanor this is at conflict with their general personality meaning it would be either as a joke or it's due to them being afraid to stick their neck out early, and as proven by 51 it was in fact

not

a joke meaning it's scum!AI. In 51 they are incredibly and overly cautious around placing their vote. They specify that it's a serious vote, in which why would Town ever need to disclaim that? I know, because they aren't Town and they're acting incredibly cautious as a way to save face. He also contradicts himself in this very post as he is saying that it's a genuine read with reason behind it BUT also only a vote because he has no other read elsewhere which at raw value is a logical contradiction. He then acts LAMIST (if you don't know, that means they're posting in a way that pretty much says "Look at me, I'm so townie", aka doing things for the image) with the E-2 statement which is both unneeded and just reeks that he's being overly self-conscious because he is afraid of harming is image.

In post 108 he once again is

incredibly

apprehensive to place their suspicions on RN and instead if resulting to cheap shading and discrediting. Not having the balls to commit to the read, they're afraid of putting themselves into the heat and again, it's proven that this is not how they typically act meaning it's them afraid for a

reason

and that reason is clearly because they're a wolf.

ZZZ also has a completely different appearance vs his actions, especially surrounding him wanting to wait to discuss around EoD2 but as soon as he appears, he says his thoughts and then

immediately

hammers it without even waiting for anybody to hop on and discuss. It took him 30 minutes since he started catching up after wanting to discuss to his hammer. There is absolutely no way a Town has such a perspective contradiction.

ZZZ is also the only logical person to be the Mailman. There is no reason for a scum neighbour (which would be me in that world) to have both a Mailman AND a neighbour shot. What's the purpose? There's a Traffic Analyst, I assume it would be primarily to keep the scum outside of the neighbourhood to not be able to get red-checked as easily and the TA is purely a means to clear Town as opposed to incriminate Mafia. It is his problem that he did not claim it when a mass-claim came around, but if mafia neighbour had a mailman, would they not also claim that as it's part of their role? And claiming it does not incriminate them at all? (To clarify, it was my pred that claimed, not me).

RE 32/51, you can check this, this is my first Mafia game in a few years, and I couldn't remember the terms. I don't see how asking what the term for OMGUS is in RVS is scum-aligned, and as I mentioned below I don't believe in that because of the whole fun topic of intentions.

What would scum me's intention be in doing that? In reality, it is a fully NAI because it doesn't serve any purpose, it doesn't give me and cred by doing say a read, it doesn't make people read me any better or worse.

My vote, on NM who was the only player I know with the question, is something that I've done since 2014, I am happy to tomorrow grab you a game where I asked NM himself that same question in the same way, and I will find you like 3 of those as scum as 3 as town, and again, whats the point or intention of scum me here? In reality, it was my attempt at forcing NM into a conversation, which is something you can see in older games, helping me read him legitimately. For scum me, is the intention... to appear to make a serious vote? Really?

My post 108 wasn't a scum read, I was annoyed, and I still am, at the quick hammer. And trying to spin that as me being afraid to commit to reads is why I believe people try to use the whole concept of "scummy things" as a general list as an abusable thing. Scum will not be afraid to do it to avoid looking questionable. While town will not have the intent or motivation to lie, because they know it will cause issues (With the exception of gambits, or situations where someone is on heat and tried to do something to avoid getting mis-lim'd, neither of which was the case for me here.), in fact with the information we have, it would be easier for me to vote for RN, especially as I have already mentioned that I can read NM, and that I was talking to him.

Re-the day I hammered, I made it clear I wanted my thoughts out, which I did, and I agreed with the lim. There was not a situation to discuss my reads and risk a no-lim ever when the day had around 24 hours left. What is the goal of scum me setting that up?

Your logic is flowed for the mailman, if I was scum, then the traffic checking me doesn't do anything either, and for not claiming it as part of their roles, I think it is very simple:

Your predi. used it in a scummy way, using the mailman without the town's benefit, I already know the mailman was scum the moment they asked me to confirm recieving it in secret, I am 100% sure RN knew the same, which is why we both tried to softly get someone to claim it (or checking others to see if someone gets caught in a lie). E.g. me trying to quitely communicate with wiz if he was a mailman after seeing RN's results. and if you read RN, you will see a similar approach into softly trying to see if anyone will do the mistake of claiming that

In conclusion, none of your "scum reads" on me are really scummy, instead many are common "gotchas" that people talk about, yet in reality it is worthless if you look into the game context, and honestly that kind of reads, as I believed from years ago and I expressed in multiple games, is just an excuse for scum to appear as if they are trying. And almost never helps catch scum.

[ZZZX]

Regarding Blue/Ducky's slot all game. I wholeheartedly believe that they wanted me out because it was easy all game and when they repped in, I was literally

the

person that wolves needed out to win and he knew that and pushed me hard and right out the bat. Before I replaced in, my predecessor was an INCREDIBLY easy player to push, in fact Blue pushed nobody else really except my slot. Why would they do this, why would they bus this substantially.

There's also this quote from BlueSnake in 218 that is "If this flips green, kill Passenger next. If this flips red, kill me next" which is

clearly

them attempting to set up two miseliminations. Why would they openly ask to get chain-limmed if both of our slots were wolves. This is a slip up both not because it's clearly setting up two miselims but also because the logic doesn't even make sense. Why would they think this way, as a wolf why would they openly welcome a chain-lim of two mafias. And it's very clear that the general public thought it was two wolves in the neighbourhood, so if it genuinely WAS two wolves in the neighbourhood this would be borderline gamethrowing.

Then there's when ducky replaced in, he immediately went for me. He went for my jugular, and clearly from how I was speaking yesterday it wasn't planned to bus. It was clear I wanted ZZZ out and if it was planned for him to distance, wouldn't I then go with that and push him so I am distanced from him? No, instead I purposefully get him to push me while I don't do what's needed to profit from that and instead push away from him? when he's confirmed wolf too I kept to that. If you don't sense that this is a discrepancy for the world where Ducky and I are wolves then I really really have no hope at winning this game for Town.

Honestly, this entire post is just WIFOM

[ZZZX]

So, let's see...

Spoiler:

Like ducky flipping informed is such a kick in the teeth considering the whole tinfoil around double scum in the neighbourhood

Okay, so, my main theory of there being two scum but no Neighborhood is disproven—technically the Informed modifier allows for you and the worst to still be scum but Neighbors with them getting the extra information of there being a Village Backup Neighbor, but it also could just tell the worst that there's a Traffic Analyst (which is actionable knowledge considering the scumteam consisting of a Werewolf Messenger and a Werewolf Neighbor), meaning that it's not really important at this point any more. I hope I'll be able to see what the information was eventually, but that'll have to wait for the postgame.

Spoiler:

I would like to start by saying that I am extremely good and especially consistent at scum, I know that's probably going to come full swing and bite me in the ass but I am not one to make myself appear paired so obviously. Any scum worth their weight in gold would cut their losses and push their confirmed scum partner, but I didn't. I pushed against it because of the long-game (today, me vs zzz that I don't believe I'd win because of your reads), do you think scum of my caliber (I hate sounding this stuck up, please get my intention) would actually pair this hard on a scum partner that was 100% going out? I feel that's quite an insult to my skill to assume such a thing

I agree with getting rid of the worst far sooner being a reasonable choice of action for scum to take—it means we can get onto D4 sooner and you don't risk me or Random Nurse getting more suspicious of you.

Spoiler:

In 51 they are incredibly and overly cautious around placing their vote. They specify that it's a serious vote, in which why would Town ever need to disclaim that? I know, because they aren't Town and they're acting incredibly cautious as a way to save face. He also contradicts himself in this very post as he is saying that it's a genuine read with reason behind it BUT also only a vote because he has no other read elsewhere which at raw value is a logical contradiction. He then acts LAMIST (if you don't know, that means they're posting in a way that pretty much says "Look at me, I'm so townie", aka doing things for the image) with the E-2 statement which is both unneeded and just reeks that he's being overly self-conscious because he is afraid of harming is image.

I admit, while the part where they say it's a genuine read is likely not-indicative (since they had been accused of trying to sneak in a vote on me while joking earlier), the wording on the actual questioning of Not_Mafia felt very odd at the time, and it was the second time that they had been the second vote on someone in just 3 pages.

Spoiler:

In post 108ZZZ also has a completely different appearance vs his actions, especially surrounding him wanting to wait to discuss around EoD2 but as soon as he appears, he says his thoughts and then

immediately

hammers it without even waiting for anybody to hop on and discuss. It took him 30 minutes since he started catching up after wanting to discuss to his hammer. There is absolutely no way a Town has such a perspective contradiction.

Yeah, it was rather odd how ZZZX showed up to hammer. I know I've mentioned in the past how I feel ZZZX tends to vote often for how little they talk or explain themselves, and I still feel it's never been the right ratio for an invested Villager.

Spoiler:

ZZZ is also the only logical person to be the Mailman. There is no reason for a scum neighbour (which would be me in that world) to have both a Mailman AND a neighbour shot. What's the purpose? There's a Traffic Analyst, I assume it would be primarily to keep the scum outside of the neighbourhood to not be able to get red-checked as easily and the TA is purely a means to clear Town as opposed to incriminate Mafia. It is his problem that he did not claim it when a mass-claim came around, but if mafia neighbour had a mailman, would they not also claim that as it's part of their role? And claiming it does not incriminate them at all? (To clarify, it was my pred that claimed, not me).

It would be rather weird to have a Neighbor Messenger in general, especially in a set-up with a Traffic Analyst. Bianco seems to have some wacky and fun ideas, but I find that one player would be needlessly a bit overloaded.

RE: informed being that there is a traffic analyst: Knowing the current setup so far, it makes no sense for the scum to want to know there is a traffic analyst, and in fact this is a super intersting fact:

If informed meant knowing there is a traffic analyst, then scum will always claim, or at the very least soft claim mailman at some point, or mention it in any mail message. To get out of a potential guilty.

I disagree that getting rid of TW sooner was a better option for scum-Jackson, the way the game was, they were a prime suspect already, and it was already clearly a questionable situation (which both me and RN commented on, which could potentially be why Jackson decided to lay low and wait and see, until after 7 pages RN flipflopped enough into scum reading me, then they popped back in).

I already answered the phrasing being an old-school thing we did often. In fact before I sleep now I will show an example

I will admit, I have not been super invested into that game by that point, we had no info, we had quick hammered D1, and nothing was happened. To be frank, when I did finally read up and there was a day left, when I only asked for people not to hammer before I catch up and put my thoughts, I do not see what scum-me would ask to do that there, just to get attention on myself? For town-cred?

Finally, would a neighbor mailman, which basically have a non-influencal power be overloaded, but not a W.wolf Neighbor Informed complex Follower?

Actually, this came to my mind. Informed being that there is a traffic analyst, AND having a follower, discovering what action X does, which in that case would be basically just a doc-checker, instead of being informed of a backup neighbour, which takes no action so they cannot know it without the informed? Lets be real here for a moment.

[ZZZX]

I am sure I missed a lot of things, It is getting to the point where it is dangerous that I haven't went to sleep yet, so I will leave it at that and come back tomorrow moring.

Oh and before I forget, there is only one possible scum here from my point of view, and I am not afraid to show it.

VOTE: Jackson

[ZZZX]

I mean, in a sense the setup is interesting, and it explains why it was in review for a while. But I do enjoy it, it adds a lot of questions, which is what I expect a fun setup to have.

And Jackson, you didn't ignore TW when it was clear TW is scum, you didnt mention TW, and none truly saw TW as confirmed scum. So a town-you would've tried to convince us, instead of doing nothing. No?

[ZZZX]

Give me a minute, sorry. I am drained and my last braincell just broke up with me

[ZZZX]

If you look early last day, none had the worst as confirmed scum, and you ignored him when everyone was discussing him/and you. And instead commented on my read list which was very irrelevant there.

Is that more legible?

[ZZZX]

Woo!

Thanks mod for the game. Was a super interesting setup for sure.

[ZZZX]

I'd argue a traffic analyst with 2 scum who appear negative would be bordering on bastard- game territories. Which is why I didn't honestly even consider it.

As for your replacement heipizhu, I didn't think too much of it, and mostly its because I didnt want to try to, with the mod's notice and whatever.

[ZZZX]

By the way, if none minds, is it possible to have either/both the neighborhood/scum PT released? I am actually curious how the chat in the neighborhood went haha

[ZZZX]

So, I made my request. Thanks Jackson for showing me how to play under pressure in my slot and ggwp everyone!

Yeah my tip generally is to never give up, even if you go down because how else would you really learn to deal with the heat if you don't deal with the heat

This 100%

I have survived literal cop guilties doing that at some point lol