Open 888 | Welcome to Feryland! -- End!

[DragonEater70]

Do note that's E-1 (not that I'm complaining)

[Aneninen]

He's not faking covid.

It's also very rude to say that he might be faking it.

I might have phrased that badly, sorry, Knott if you put it in the way Dragon said, but my conclusion was that he was NOT faking it.

Out of Fucking order !!

I said I'm sorry.

I wanted to say that it would be silly to question IRL conditions like that. I also wanted to point it out that it wouldn't have in-game benefit either. So I pre-emptively took COVID out from the further in-game reasoning. Probably I should pay more attention when I'm working meanwhile.

Again, get well soon!

[Aneninen]

Do note that's E-1 (not that I'm complaining)

It is.
And please, DON'T HAMMER until all players have posted Today.

Right now, only 3 of the 7 players have spoken Today.

I'll respond all the other posts later.

[Black]

I'm at e-1 less than 12 hours into the day? Cool, cool

DE/VIP is my hero solve and I think they are acting a little too casual about me being at e-1 so quickly. I think town players are more likely to play this slower and not risk the Day ending this soon. It only helps scum to fade this fast

I think the way DE positioned himself at the end of D1 was pretty scummy so I'm still down to go there today. I'll elaborate on this more when I get to a computer, but for now I'll

VOTE: DE70

[Black]

Hi so this game where black was scum just ended: viewtopic.php?t=91649

I skimmed that game back when it was in Day 1 and Black stood out to me as scum. So that makes me feel slightly better about my scumread of her this game.

Also, please don't murder me if I'm wrong because this was some weeks ago, but I do think Black's treatment of Comet here is reminiscent of her treatment of Aureal in that game. If you really want me to I might check it again later today to really compare.

Talk to me about why you scum read my play that game. How does that read compare to your read on me this game?

Also your Aureal comment is either a scummy misrep or pure conf bias

[Black]

I'll respond to the rest later

[DragonEater70]

Very possibly confbias

I'll tackle this more in depth when I finish work for today.

[Aneninen]

UNVOTE:

Only because if someone quickhammers before we've seen some useful content from everyone, we'll be in a horrible situation tomorrow.

I'll check the recent posts later and explain the sentence above, too, if needed.

[Black]

Something came up and I won't be able to post today but I will get around to this first thing tomorrow morning

[Aneninen]

Where's everyone?

I think the line in 809 is quite telling.

This was the post:

We're fine with Gimli and Tim wagons, and we're willing to go with a spicy Black wagon if it becomes needed. Zero interest in Knott/Kittie/Comet wagons rn

With this addition:

Add VIP to this btw, kinda forgot he existed

Knott, my problem with this is that in the "quite telling" post Python would wagon Gimli (who flipped town), Tim (whom you've been scumreading anyway) and more or less Black (whom you've been scumreading anyway, too). Would you have brought this up just as eagerly if Python had mentioned other names?
By the way, my name was there, too. If I read it correctly, they'd have wagoned me, too.
They didn't mention Dragon at all.

So far the only people who omgused me are Tim and Black

Why do you think OMGUS-ing is essentially a scumtell? I consider it simply bad player-tell. In certain situations, e.g., when someone's getting tunneled and scumread regardless of everything they post, it can even be a towntell. Scum can OMGUS too for the same reason, indeed.
Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong here, since I talk about my old experiences.

Knott sounds like a frustrated townie 50% of the time, and like he's trying to solve the game 50% of the time.

My opinion:
Timmer sounds like a frustrated townie 50% of the time, and like he's trying to solve the game 50% of the time.

I know that there's a 5/9 chance for an investigative role to exist in the setup, since it's a semi-open setup. I also don't think there are masons (based on associations), unless Black and Comet are masons which would be fucking hilarious. But anyway there's a pretty good chance someone has an investigation role and could have a guilty.

I really, really don't like speculations like this. If someone has anything to say (3 players still haven't posted anything), they'll do so. Nevertheless, the problem is that a Tracker positive can mean a sure scumread, but a Tracker negative not. Jailkeeper is not half as investigative as it looks like.

VIP you are so wrong really you are. But hey it’s obv you have an issue with me. And have had all game. I mostly read you as town, even with this tunnel vision you have. So shut up and start looking elsewhere. I’d also state that I’m reading DE as town now.

Why should your read affect my read on you?
Besides, what's that "start looking elsewhere"? I was voting for Black when you posted this. And willing to put my vote back as everyone's told everything they want Today.
Call me a tunneler, I remember having a bad reputation for that, but you care more about my read on you than anything else in this game!

DE/VIP is my hero solve and I think they are acting a little too casual about me being at e-1 so quickly. I think town players are more likely to play this slower and not risk the Day ending this soon.

Spoiler:

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

What the actual fork?
Since when voting for my scumread has been scummy?
Besides, I was the first one voting for you!
But okay, I removed my vote until everyone has showed up.

Something came up and I won't be able to post today but I will get around to this first thing tomorrow morning

EST? Or West Coast time (what's that called)?
I'm asking because I'd like to see a readlist from you. Plus, answers for the same questions I asked from Dragon.

[fferyllt]

V2.1

Liberty Cap mushrooms

A commonly mentioned gateway to Fairyland in British myths is the mushroom fairy ring. And perhaps not coincidentally, a fairly common mushroom in Britain, and throughout Europe is the Liberty Cap, known in modern times to be a hallucinogen. When trees have been cut down, or have fallen, their dead root systems are attractive to fungi. The circular-ish shape of the mushroom ring is dictated by the food -- the underground remnants of the tree's trunk and roots.

Black (2):

DragonEater70, Afrayed Knott

DragonEater70 (1):

Black

Not Voting (4):

Cometbright, TimmerRC, Kittiesecret, Aneninen

With 7 alive it takes 4 votes to eliminate

Deadline: Monday, October 23, Noon US Eastern Time.

countdown: (expired on 2023-10-23 09:00:00)

Mod Notes

• Please let me know if you see any problems with the vote counts
  
• 

[DragonEater70]

DE/VIP is my hero solve

I literally can't wrap my head around this. How can you call this a "hero solve" when (a) VIP has been low hanging fruit for most of yesterday, and (b) there was apparently town consensus (at least according to 848 by Comet) that I was second or third most lim-able yesterday after Gimli.

Like for fuck's sake, I started the day by telling people to eliminate me because I know I just don't live to 3p ELo. What is this?

I really have no freaking idea why you would do this as either alignment. As town you should know this is ridiculous, and as scum you have nothing to gain (the way I see it) from trying to spin it as a "hero solve", because you know it will flip green anyway (or at least, I will).

Care to explain this?

[Python] didn't mention Dragon at all.

Yes because Python is apparently the only person here who understands how I play.

Where's everyone?

No clue
Maybe scum lurking, tbh.

Why do you think OMGUS-ing is essentially a scumtell? I consider it simply bad player-tell. In certain situations, e.g., when someone's getting tunneled and scumread regardless of everything they post, it can even be a towntell. Scum can OMGUS too for the same reason, indeed.
Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong here, since I talk about my old experiences.

OMGUS in itself is not a scumtell. Shitty OMGUS that comes not from good reasoning but from "oh fuck this guy's onto me, let's make a up a reason to push him" is a scumtell, in my opinion. I have not verified this statistically.

Since when voting for my scumread has been scummy?
Besides, I was the first one voting for you!

I don't think the problem she has is with you getting her to E-1, I think she's "concerned" (or actually concerned, I mean this can legitimately concern town) about the fact that I said this:

Do note that's E-1 (not that I'm complaining)

instead of yelling "please don't hammer Black!!!!!"

And then for some reason she grouped you into this concern despite this post:

And please, DON'T HAMMER until all players have posted Today.

Right now, only 3 of the 7 players have spoken Today.

Which to me is a bit weird. I don't knwo why she's portraying you as "casual about it".

EST? Or West Coast time (what's that called)?

Pacific Time.

Anyway, to answer Black's and VIP's requests, I will now go and have a look in the finished game. Hang tight while I write my book report.

[Cometbright]

Apologies - only semi-present at the moment.

Really dislike the super early E-1 and I feel like a broken record at this point but once again it was Knott putting someone at E-1 without saying as such. I also find Knott's progression here making so little sense - near the end of Day 1 his scumreading on Black was dependent on Gimli being scum (he wasn't) and his other scumread was VIP who is... on the Black wagon today that he joined. I think his justification here today is he's sheeping Python but... why?

Dragon/VIP/Knott - are you comfortable with the fellow people on your wagon here?

[Cometbright]

I'm not saying Black scum is impossible here but this huge push right out the gate feels off - especially with the overlap between this Black wagon and the Gimli wagon.

[DragonEater70]

Holy broccoli, this is a spicy book report.

Okay first of all, I scumread Black because I felt her push on CCGeek felt really disingenuous and in bad faith. I also REALLY disliked her response to Dannflor's early push on her and the flip flop from scumreading and discrediting Dannflor to attempting to pocket him.

Well turns out I was right for the wrong reasons, because CCGeek was actually her scum partner so the push on him wasn't in bad faith, it was just fake.

However, I think I'm also right for the wrong reasons here. Like right now and in the end of Day 1, I felt like Black is not reacting as if I'm wrong, but as if she feels I'm right for the wrong reasons and is trying very hard to discredit the specific reasons I gave, but actually doing nothing to prove she's town. This includes for example saying "yeah the thing with Aureal is nothing like the thing with Comet" or saying "but why aren't you taking issue with the people townreading me???"

These things aren't actual defenses, just deflections.

Also, I might mention that I was actually wrong about Black/Aureal being similar to Black/Comet. That's just my bad for misremembering.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon/VIP/Knott - are you comfortable with the fellow people on your wagon here?

Yeah I'd say that Knott had been my biggest/most consistent TR in the game after Python and Gimli, who are both dead. And VIP's vote doesn't feel scummy.

[DragonEater70]

huge push right out the gate feels off

Care to explain why?

I wanted to push Black yesterday. Nobody listened to me and the person I townread the most told me to vote Gimli, so I did it. Now people are actually scumreading Black so it makes total sense to go after her without hesitating.

[DragonEater70]

Sorry I forgot to say that having looked at Black's play in that finished game, I'd say that while it doesn't perfectly match her play here, it's pretty similar in the overall vibe.

I will admit that I have incorrectly scumread Black in Newbie 2119, but her vibes this game are vastly different than in Newbie 2119 (and in that game, when the moment of truth came, I couldn't even bring myself to vote her). I think her playstyle this game is more similar to her playstyle in Open 885 (where she was scum) than in Newbie 2119 (when she was town).

[Aneninen]

I literally can't wrap my head around this. How can you call this a "hero solve" when (a) VIP has been low hanging fruit for most of yesterday, and (b) there was apparently town consensus (at least according to 848 by Comet) that I was second or third most lim-able yesterday after Gimli.

It might be a bit off, but it's actually not.
Isn't it strange how many low hanging pieces of fruit we had Yesterday... yet there were people complaining about not being able to find real scumreads?

Like for fuck's sake, I started the day by telling people to eliminate me because I know I just don't live to 3p ELo. What is this?

Bad townplay or WIFOM. I learnt it in the hard way that the more I tell this, the more likely it is that I'll be at the ELo in the end.

instead of yelling "please don't hammer Black!!!!!"

Fork this shirt, I literally posted "PLEASE DON'T HAMMER!" As you pointed it out, too.
By the way, I even posted it Yesterday that I'd "have a dance" with her. Or something similar.

once again it was Knott putting someone at E-1 without saying as such.

Hm. Which one was the first time? Timmer or me?

near the end of Day 1 his scumreading on Black was dependent on Gimli being scum (he wasn't) and his other scumread was VIP who is... on the Black wagon today that he joined.

Did you mean this?

VOTE: Black

Are you voting Black for not voting for Gimli because you think Gimli is scum? Shouldn't you be voting Gimli to confirm if he's scum before then going on Black?

Interested in the answer to this.

Why? Tell you what, too answer all my questions to you and I’ll answer this

Actually no. I will answer it. Black you and either Gimli or VIP were my scum reads Gimli was at E1 I was interested to see what Black did, considering they hadn’t voted for Gimli. So I put my vote there.

What if he wanted to stay away from the Gimli wagon because he knew what the flip would be?
He was flip-flopping on me, anyway. It's more strange for me that he's so concerned about my read on him. And much less concerned about all the others reading him.

I think his justification here today is he's sheeping Python but... why?

I pointed out the same thing.

Dragon/VIP/Knott - are you comfortable with the fellow people on your wagon here?

Not really.
Dragon, well, he's a "too scummy to be scum" read for me, as I said before. But I want to explain this later. So , he's more or less okay.
Knott, on the other hand, just jumped from Timmer on the Black wagon. However, wagoning Black is much, much better than wagoning Timmer. And Dragon stated that Knott was town, and I started to think what if I was wrong about Knott.

Nevertheless, I unvoted for now. I hoped when Black saw her wagon she'd do something unexpected under pressure... but apart from some OMGUS we got nothing. It might be because she announced later that she'd have a busy day.

I'm not saying Black scum is impossible here but this huge push right out the gate feels off - especially with the overlap between this Black wagon and the Gimli wagon.

That's Dragon and me. Knott was voting for Black at that time.
Actually he might have put his vote on Black Today genuinely. But why didn't he told us that it was E-1? Or is he bussing Black? Not a good strategy, if he'd waited for the other players it might have been safer.
No, this doesn't add up. I must miss something. Or I'm being outplayed by someone.

I wanted to push Black yesterday. Nobody listened to me and the person I townread the most told me to vote Gimli, so I did it. Now people are actually scumreading Black so it makes total sense to go after her without hesitating.

You actually withdrew your case on Black.

I will admit that I have incorrectly scumread Black in Newbie 2119, but her vibes this game are vastly different than in Newbie 2119 (and in that game, when the moment of truth came, I couldn't even bring myself to vote her). I think her playstyle this game is more similar to her playstyle in Open 885 (where she was scum) than in Newbie 2119 (when she was town).

That's something. But less than I expected.
What do you think of these two things?
(1) The Black-Knott interaction whole game. Recent hint: she posted this: "DE/VIP is my hero solve" in 903 leaving out Knott ENTIRELY! Ignoring that Knott was voting for her, too!
(2) The way she wants to keep away from MisElim wagons (see my earlier post about it).

[DragonEater70]

You actually withdrew your case on Black.

I unvoted and said it wasn;t as strong as I thought. I didn't intend for it to be construed as a complete withdrawal.

What do you think of these two things?
(1) The Black-Knott interaction whole game. Recent hint: she posted this: "DE/VIP is my hero solve" in 903 leaving out Knott ENTIRELY! Ignoring that Knott was voting for her, too!
(2) The way she wants to keep away from MisElim wagons (see my earlier post about it).

(2) I already said i agree with this
(1) Sure I can see that but I also don't think it's that far fetched for her, regardless of alignment, to have a solve that includes 2 people and not 3. Considering there are only 2 scum.

[Aneninen]

I unvoted and said it wasn;t as strong as I thought. I didn't intend for it to be construed as a complete withdrawal.

Oh. Then I misinterpreted that post.

Sure I can see that but I also don't think it's that far fetched for her, regardless of alignment, to have a solve that includes 2 people and not 3. Considering there are only 2 scum.

So she just picked Dragon+me because why not? Which reminds me of something...

...I really, really don't like that we still haven't seen anything from Timmer or Kittie Today!

[Aneninen]

I mean, I don't think Timmer could be scum.
My last read on Kittie was something like "could be town after all".

But we're so ignoring them Today!

[Aneninen]

Frankly said, it's more than 2.5 hours now, it's in your active time zone (in the US), and all I can see is that I'm conversing with Dragon! I seriously start to think that I'm wrong about everything and the actual scum are just waiting until this Dragon, Knott, Black, Aneninen section are eating each other because of being active?????????????????????????????????????????????,

[fferyllt]

Black has requested replacement. Searching...

[fferyllt]

Dannflor replaces Black. Please welcome him!