Open 891: STDBINSBICACOT (Game Over)

[Black]

Alisae even asked Drew to take his vote away from Crescent in order to get the shadow wagon going full steam. This could definitely be town!Alisae just trying to recruit people to her wagon but if Crescent is actually scum here then the timing of it all seems very sus

[Crescent]

I mean, its been pretty abundantly clear Im not actually reading along or playing. Why would I be up to date on current events

P:

Your total avoidance of even commenting on the wagon until being called out says to me you wanted him to get voted off without getting involved in it yourself,

How? Where does this logic come from? Why do you think mafia would risk leaving such a gaping hole in their dayplay?

I see behavior like this in basically every game I ever play, and fairly more often than not it comes from scum playing avoidance. Though, now I'm in my own head. Recent comments are giving me a fresh reminder that the mafia game I'm used to and the mafia game played here aren't the same game. They're almost fundamentally different.

[pisskop]

im willing to believe its different. Avoidance only works when it isnt called out.

The strongest players on site will all roll up their sleeves and dive into a game, because its really easy to lose the late game due to a lack of early game setup.

[shaddowez]

I'm back, not fully caught up yet but going to start here.

First off if anyone is expecting a ton of content from me, don't. It's not how I play - I'm mostly reactive, observe based on interactions, poke where I feel I need to, and then express my conclusions when and where I feel like they make sense to do so, which is usually with my vote.

I'm not going to spend my time responding to all of 506, but I will address a few of the glaring holes. Feel free to ask questions about any specific things I don't address:

Here are the thoughts I had last night when looking through Shadow's iso

27 could be a signal to the scum team if he's the traitor and they didn't choose to recruit him

This was directly answering 22.

436 I talked about last night but I think his posturing around Alisae is slimy and then the Titus stance feels very convenient considering she got two votes right before this post

This is setting me up for a lose/lose. If I didn't say anything but TItus ended up limmed and is town, I'd be framed for sticking on a wagon with my RVS vote and no reason.

449 is a misinterpretation of what Gob said but it reads as being self-conscious about being voted for

Based on the misinterpretation of Gob's post I would have asked it if he was still voting anybody else, it just happened to be me. Stating a SR on someone but sitting on somebody else they haven't addressed in a while is something I'll point out pretty much anytime I see it.

[Black]

VOTE: Crescent

[shaddowez]

shaddow also toys at the idea of policy limming Alisae in this post which feels like slimy positioning

This wasn't positioning at all, if at the end of D1 Alisae still wasn't posting and I had no strong SRs I would have absolutely voted there.

[davesaz]

If shaddowez is scum I doubt pisskop would do this as a partner.

I can see town pisskop trying to go after the drivers of the wagon regardless of shaddow's flip, if he isn't sold on shaddow being scum. I do that myself quite a lot.

I feel like Crescent's take on pisskop lacks doubt on pisskop's alignment. I feel like I'd want to see if there was any prior indication that Crescent had thoughts on pisskop.

[Crescent]

im willing to believe its different. Avoidance only works when it isnt called out.

The strongest players on site will all roll up their sleeves and dive into a game, because its really easy to lose the late game due to a lack of early game setup.

When you're playing 48 hour days and day 1 almost always goes to 1,500-2,500 posts in just those 48 hours, it's very easy to hide.I did essentially nothing on day 1 or 2 my last scumgame there and got away with it. I have to remember these are 10 days long and don't even reach 1,000 posts. You can't "hide" in this format.

[Crescent]

If shaddowez is scum I doubt pisskop would do this as a partner.

I can see town pisskop trying to go after the drivers of the wagon regardless of shaddow's flip, if he isn't sold on shaddow being scum. I do that myself quite a lot.

I feel like Crescent's take on pisskop lacks doubt on pisskop's alignment. I feel like I'd want to see if there was any prior indication that Crescent had thoughts on pisskop.

Pressure without force is meaningless. Anyone who would actually believe someone is confirmed town or confirmed scum on day 1 should probably go away.

[shaddowez]

Shaddow Roden Dunn? Dunn might be beard though. We don't really get along sometimes.

There's only a definite third if the traitor got recruited. Why are you assuming a team of three here?

[Black]

VOTE: Crescent

I feel the frustration from both Black and PK as being towny.

I feel Crescent as being opportunistic though.

Drew can you put this vote back

[Crescent]

Shaddow Roden Dunn? Dunn might be beard though. We don't really get along sometimes.

There's only a definite third if the traitor got recruited. Why are you assuming a team of three here?

Isn't an unrecruited traitor still mafia aligned? Three still makes sense.

[Black]

Something_Smart - Not Wolf w/ Dunn
Dunnstral - Not wolf w/ SS
pisskop - If I'm TRing Dave I'll TR pk.
Titus - Could be town
Dannflor - Town
davesaz - I want to townlean this for standing out just way too much
shaddowez - VOTE: Shaddowez
gob - Town
Doctor Drew - Town
Roden - either town or mafia w/ Crescent
Black - Town
Crescent - I can easily see this being either alignment.

Titus (3) - shaddowez, Roden, Dunnstral
shaddowez (3) - gob, Black, Alisae
pisskop (2) - Dannflor, Crescent
Black (1) - pisskop
gob (1) - davesaz
Roden (1) - Titus
Crescent (1) - Doctor Drew

Not Voting (1) - Something_Smart

So many vanity voters holy.

I actually like Titus' vote history and I think she seems town so far. I think they are solving.
Shaddowez distinctly comes across as a wolf to me. I do not think 185 is written by town.
Dave I feel like is someone I would normally want to fos but I feel like maybe they are solving and they just stand out a lot?
If I TR Dave, then I think I should TR PK because I think their stances around dave I think come across as town motivated.
black and gob I think have town motivated positions on me and I think Black and Gob have also been pretty townie throughout the game as well.
Roden I don't rly have a read on but if they're town I would probably trust them on their Crescent read so either they're w/w or town/town.
I think Drew has had townie moments and pop-ins within this game.
I don't get the distinction that Dunn v SS is theater, ig I kind of lean town on Dunn but right now Dunn I think is kinda hard to read. I might take a deeper look it might not even be worth the energy.
SS I just don't get distinct townvibes from.
Dann I think had good stances in the early pages.

I don't like how Crescent could "easily be either alignment" yet for some reason Alisae doesn't elaborate on that or even mention their Crescent read at all in the second post when they mention every other player in the game

[Crescent]

Oh by the way I'm VT just going to save you the trouble there. Never understood the obsession with this community to only claim at -1. Feel free to do whatever.

Now that it's really hit me (Titus calling me toxic for what's my equivalent of an everyday argument has really sunk in), I feel like most of the arguments I've made today just don't work in this format and I'm currently pondering why I even came back to it.

[Black]

Well now that Crescent has claimed I think it makes even more since to fade her today

[Black]

Sense* stupid autocorrect

[shaddowez]

If

Since shaddow is town, there's potentially some valuable information from the way his wagon rose and then the thread completely stalled.

The fact I stayed at E-2 instead of E-1 lends me to believe there's one scum

not

on my wagon, but most of those not on are probably town. gob is weird and I have a hard time reading, so I'll admit I don't have much to say about his vote. Black I'm reading as town right now - while I don't agree with her read on my ISO, the fact that she did so and is trying to provide reasons. Drew's move to vote me is a little strange, but I could see a potential of town moving on to the wagon if he had any sort of SR.

Alisae's claim to be starting my wagon while being 3rd on it and Titus having already voted me previously is strange. Her reads list in 489 and 491 are nonsensical, but not definitively scummy.
Right now, my guess is scum is in {Alisae, Titus} on my wagon based on positioning and gameplay.

P-Edit

Shaddow Roden Dunn? Dunn might be beard though. We don't really get along sometimes.

There's only a definite third if the traitor got recruited. Why are you assuming a team of three here?

Isn't an unrecruited traitor still mafia aligned? Three still makes sense.

I guess that's true since they'd still be pushing for town mislims. I was thinking more along the lines of forming associations since there's no communication without the recruit.

[Black]

Shaddow do you have a read on Crescent?

[davesaz]

Pressure without force is meaningless.

Not sure what you mean by this.

[davesaz]

Shaddow Roden Dunn? Dunn might be beard though. We don't really get along sometimes.

There's only a definite third if the traitor got recruited. Why are you assuming a team of three here?

Isn't an unrecruited traitor still mafia aligned? Three still makes sense.

I guess that's true since they'd still be pushing for town mislims. I was thinking more along the lines of forming associations since there's no communication without the recruit.
[/quote]
There can be forward associations from traitor to scum, but not vice versa. For unrecruited traitor, what I look for is two or more joke/not serious posts saying X is scum with no reason and no followup.

[davesaz]

I feel like I'd want to see if there was any prior indication that Crescent had thoughts on pisskop.

It isn't a new thought, and it seems to be grounded in accurate observations.

[Doctor Drew]

VOTE: Crescent

[Black]

Votecount

shaddowez (5)

-

gob

,

Black

,

Alisae

, Titus,

Doctor Drew

Titus (3)

- shaddowez, Roden, Dunnstral

pisskop (2)

-

Dannflor

,

Crescent

Black (1)

- pisskop

Not Voting (2)

- davesaz, Something_Smart

This may be conf bias but I feel like it's too convenient for Crescent to say she doesn't have a read on shaddow here. PK was a good alternative wagon to push in order for her to not be on the same wagon as Alisae. I townread/lean everyone else on these wagons except Titus and I'm willing to outsource my read to Drew there for now. I think Crescent/Alisae just fits here

[Dannflor]

sorry about the v/la I'm back fully and catching up this morning

[Titus]

I haven't caught up due to fatigue but I don't like a Crescent lim here.

I'm sorry for what I said that made you feel like you do Crescent.