Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame

[OutWorldER]

Plus, if do all trust Smiley’s not lying, then the fact that I was jailed twice in a row and it never stopped a nightkill is decent mechanical evidence in my favor—not confirming, but it’s more than most of the rest of you can say.

Except it's not evidence, not anymore. That stopped being evidence the moment THS flipped, because it confirmed that there is some kind of blocking role. If there's a Roleblocker/Rolestopper they can just block Smiley/rolestop the killer every night and Smiley's JK is useless.

Is this why you left Smiley alive? So you could say "well he's blocked me for two nights in a row and there wasn't any kills" while also roleblocking him to get a fake clear?

[AnimatedWiz]

Plus, if do all trust Smiley’s not lying, then the fact that I was jailed twice in a row and it never stopped a nightkill is decent mechanical evidence in my favor—not confirming, but it’s more than most of the rest of you can say.

Except it's not evidence, not anymore. That stopped being evidence the moment THS flipped, because it confirmed that there is some kind of blocking role. If there's a Roleblocker/Rolestopper they can just block Smiley/rolestop the killer every night and Smiley's JK is useless.

Is this why you left Smiley alive? So you could say "well he's blocked me for two nights in a row and there wasn't any kills" while also roleblocking him to get a fake clear?

Hm, a Roleblocker would actually make leaving Smiley alive more logical, I suppose—especially since the Lazy modifier means that if the Roleblocker gets eliminated, it doesn’t change too much. I didn’t consider that.

[AnimatedWiz]

But then again, I do feel like having a Roleblocker and a Jailkeeper in the same game would be a nightmare for NAR if they targeted each other (since you then have to decide if the Roleblocker gets protection or not), so I’m not too sold on that combination of roles after reading up on the wiki. Maybe a Rolestopper would work instead (one that can’t self-target)?

[Enchant]

@TheStatusQuo

Have anything to say?

[AnimatedWiz]

Mod Notes:

Currently having an issue accessing the first page of the game - OP and thread title will be updated as soon as this is resolved.

I’m also having this issue on multiple devices—I think the actual page’s data or something might be corrupted? Shame to possibly lose all the rules and info about flips and such, but at least it’s near the end of the game.

[Enchant]

Huh... I also can't.

[OutWorldER]

yeah just shows up as a blank white page for me

[Thestatusquo]

I do think it should be obvious that scum has some sort of ability here because of all the potential town has to stop kills. I'm not really sure why anyone was ever operating under a different assumption. Smiley is still conf imo.

This game has been ridiculously frustrating for me because it has felt like the last 3-4 days have all been the following: I post some stuff. I don't post for like 12 hours and then I check the thread and we've mislimmed like 2 days into the game day.

So it's kinda been hard for me to parse because of this and I feel like I haven't really even been given a chance to play.

But I'm going to take my time today because of we need to slow the fuck down. People have been going rapid fire for like 4 days now and I need time to read and think.

[Dannflor]

Mod Notes:

Currently having an issue accessing the first page of the game - OP and thread title will be updated as soon as this is resolved.

I’m also having this issue on multiple devices—I think the actual page’s data or something might be corrupted? Shame to possibly lose all the rules and info about flips and such, but at least it’s near the end of the game.

Huh... I also can't.

yeah just shows up as a blank white page for me

Yeah, something is wrong with post #0. I've reported the issue and will hopefully have it corrected soon.

[OutWorldER]

Oh shit I can't even access the mod's ISO.

[Dannflor]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=2&t=91848&user_select%5B%5D=19042

You can use this link for the time being. Post #0 is blank but you can see VCs and flips at the very least.

[AnimatedWiz]

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=2&t=91848&user_select%5B%5D=19042

You can use this link for the time being. Post #0 is blank but you can see VCs and flips at the very least.

Thank you Dann—this will probably end up being really useful.

[AnimatedWiz]

Also, I think we’re all in agreement about slowing down to make sure we don’t make any stupid mistakes, so hopefully that means we can all try to put our heads together and figure this out (even OWER and me).

Also, who else has played with Shea here? I’ve been getting repeated weird vibes from his posts in the past, and I’d like to check here if that’s just due to me not playing with him before or someone else is getting similar vibes.

[Thestatusquo]

my most recent scum game is team mafia - amnesiac mafia if you want to read it.

[Thestatusquo]

Actually maybe I played a different more recently. I've rolled like entirely scum this year.

[Thestatusquo]

fwiw I agree I have a weird vibe this game but I don't think its alignment related, I think its because I have literally never felt like I was playing at like any point this game because the days just kept ending before I ever got involved and so I've just been completely disconnected. If you read my town and scum games you'll see I don't have a problem involving myself usually. I'm almost always the highest post count player as both scum and town but this game I've just been unable to actually play the way I usually do because of the way things have gone down, and I think that has made me kind of like an outsider floating on the periphery of this game, which is not where I'm accustomed to playing as either alignment.

[OutWorldER]

I feel like today's vote mostly just has to be between the guy who potentially scumslipped in twilight (because Smiley's right, scum nightkills here haven't been so straightforward that saying Python attacked Black isn't something you can say for sure without being in the scum PT) or the guy who quickhammered the JOAT, and I lean far more towards Wiz for right now, because that hammer was completely out of line with how they played this on D3, where he was consistently saying for things to not end quickly, then just up and hammers THS with like, 5 days or so left in the deadline? With a really weak justification?

I think Enchant has the potential to be town that's maybe oversimplifying the game. I don't see a world where Wiz is anything but Maf here.

[SmileyDude1]

fwiw I agree I have a weird vibe this game but I don't think its alignment related, I think its because I have literally never felt like I was playing at like any point this game because the days just kept ending before I ever got involved and so I've just been completely disconnected. If you read my town and scum games you'll see I don't have a problem involving myself usually. I'm almost always the highest post count player as both scum and town but this game I've just been unable to actually play the way I usually do because of the way things have gone down, and I think that has made me kind of like an outsider floating on the periphery of this game, which is not where I'm accustomed to playing as either alignment.

@TSQ

TheStatusQuo- Notable lack of interaction between the two slots while Python was alive. Could be partner indicative potentially.

2070 does stand out to me though. TSQ never voted Python day 3 (there only vote was 2008 on Naerys) and the closest they came to suspecting Python that day phase was 1738 which doesn't match the confidence expressed in 2070

. Strikes as a misrep to me.

Can I have you respond to this? In particular the bolded part is what i'm most interested in.

[SmileyDude1]

How i see game.

Out of table:

Black - Macho 2-shot Watcher

- Killed by Mafia N3.

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Annie. No one.
N2: Python. Smiley, BlackStar.
N3: Can't act.

BlackStar - BG

- Executed 3D

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Thestatusquo
N2: usesPython

Python - Mafia Goon

- Executed D4.

Roden - VT

- Killed by Mafia N4.

Hu Tao - VT

- Executed 2D

Wartortle - VT

- Executed 1D

Enchant - ???

- Living


POE:

Smiley - Lazy JK

Spoiler: Acts

N1: THS.
N2: Python
N3: Annie
N4: Annie

THS - JOAT (Vig/Tracker/Doc)

Spoiler: Acts

N1: Vig (Thestatusquo). Fail.
N2: Track (OWER). No result.
N3: No Action
N4: Doc (Smiley).

Naerys - VT

Annie - VT

OWER - VT

Thestatusquo - VT

Mafia kills:
N1: THS tries to kill TSQ. Direct Jail.
N2: Python tries to kill Black. Direct Jail.
N3: THS kills Black.
N4: THS kills Roden.


THS>Annie>OWEN probably must win.

Start voting.

Honestly, I’m fine with this PoE—would personally like to go for OWER second instead of me (for obvious reasons), but I think this all lines up with everything I’ve been able to figure out so far. Happy to sign off on this with my vote.

VOTE: TheHoldSteady.

E-0.

Can you explain how you got to Hold being the top of your PoE here? Looking back through your stance towards OWER seemed more solidified to me then your stance on Hold (Compare 2130 towards OWER to something like2118 towards Hold), so it feels off to be content with limming Hold first there.

[SmileyDude1]

Huh... I also can't.

@Enchant

I know this was a while ago now, but can you go more into your day 3 play? Did you have any particular motivation or intent behind bringing up the idea of scum holstering or did you say it just cause? (To be clear, i'm essentially asking for the purpose of bringing up said theory at that point in time if there was any. Sorry if the way I worded the question was unclear )

Also my apologies if mentioned already, but could you claim role? I know you didn't claim earlier, but given we're in ELO it's important that town has a full set of information to work with.

[SmileyDude1]

Potential Pairings List (in no particular order)

TheStatusQuo/OutWorldER

TheStatusQuo/Enchant

TheStatusQuo/AnimatedWiz

AnimatedWiz/Enchant

OutWorldER/Enchant

AnimatedWiz/OutWorldER

Didn't include any pairings featuring myself here for obvious reasons (A. I know i'm town, B. Town consensus is that i'm town (rightfully so, given it'd take a combo of unlikely events for me to be scum here))

I'm also going to strike off

AnimatedWiz/OutWorldER

- Off the top of my head the back and forth flinging of suspicions between these two doesn't feel like distancing to me. Feels too longstanding and intense at points to be partnered IMO. Feel relatively comfortable crossing this off right now.

Going to try to reread the game again over the course of the following days in hopes of better sorting the rest of these. Though feel free to assist if you have your own takes on this.

[Enchant]

Huh... I also can't.

@Enchant

I know this was a while ago now, but can you go more into your day 3 play? Did you have any particular motivation or intent behind bringing up the idea of scum holstering or did you say it just cause? (To be clear, i'm essentially asking for the purpose of bringing up said theory at that point in time if there was any. Sorry if the way I worded the question was unclear )

Also my apologies if mentioned already, but could you claim role? I know you didn't claim earlier, but given we're in ELO it's important that town has a full set of information to work with.

At first you must work out all possibly theories then pick one which are more likely and probably stick for it. I didn't really believe in holstering, but possibility existed.

... It didn't really work out with THS as you see. If you are town (and i believe you are), mafia saw THS selfvoting and be like "oh lol blatant PR let's kill them... And then roleblock for good measure!"

Which makes uh. No sense? I still don't get it. Should't they roleblock potential protective/blocker instead?

[Enchant]

Oh by the way by them i refer to PR. Not THS.

Strange wording yeah.

[Enchant]

I am VT obviously.

[Enchant]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH