Large Normal 246: Game Over

[Keyleth]

I think there's a difference between miscommunication and not understanding something vs the actions themselves being malicious or deliberately bad. I uh, personally think this is mostly the case of the former and don't see a reason to vote there at the current moment.

[Hu Tao]

Yeah well not my best play i admit. I am bouncing between you and Cele bcz idk whom to trust. Nurse i believe town and i am inclined to listen to him. This whole situation is a mess. Yeah plus the fact that i kinda fell for your trap with "Cele softed protective". Either you are trying to discredit Cele or Cele is lying and is scum PR. But lol, why would scum PR oust themselves like this? With still so many people alive? More than likely scum is hiding in lurkers.
You lied, Hu Tao. Thats a fact. To get best info from this situation without mislimming potential important PR is to lim you. Or, pushing a lurkers.
It would be neat if some lurkers bothered to come here, tbh. I hate this mess and my thoughts are messed up.

Cele and I agree. So why are you making it Cele vs me?

[Keyleth]

Do you still feel like Elements is a hit Hu Tao? (My topic changing skills are amazing!)

[Hu Tao]

Yeah probably

[Guillotina]

I feel like such a clown for calling GE obvtown lol.

I also didn't read the last 20 pages of Day 1, I wonder if I should read them or just skip it all.

Somebody mentioned E-1'ing people for claims - who claimed other than Hu Tao?

You should read them all, 20 pages is a lot of content you are missing.

[Guillotina]

Gamma was also unaligned with Black

You are stating obvious, Gamma flipped red and Black flipped green. Whats the point of saying stuff that everyone can see? Sus
VOTE: Broccoli

How is that alignment indicative?

[Guillotina]

Naerys why is it scum indicative to make a note of somwthong obvious and then say it's irrelevant?

It feels like trying to be seen as doing something while not doing much.

Busywork. Ok, valid.

[Guillotina]

Good morning, Hu Tao lied. She’s vanilla.

VOTE: Hu Tao

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Guillotina]

Claimed doctor to get us off of their backs yesterday, that is what happened.

[Guillotina]

Good morning, Hu Tao lied. She’s vanilla.

VOTE: Hu Tao

I know she lied but she's town anyway.

You know? how did you figure this?

[davesaz]

There are a few fairly limited places where it's beneficial for town to lie. I don't think derailing a wagon on yourself is one of them.
Goons are vanilla.
Rolecops are often scum.
Given the above if you think Celebloki must be town for rolecopping Hu Tao and Hu Tao must be town for being vanilla and sorta kinda maybe scumreading Gamma, then you're forgetting a few facts.

I don't think they're both scum, and in fact it is possible they're both town. But neither one is lock.

[Guillotina]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Ok Naerys is town unless exactly scum with Hu Tao, pocketing Broccoli and setting him up for a misyeet later if Hu Tao flips scum.

[davesaz]

Naerys is exactly like other games where she was town, but I don't think I've seen her as scum so it's just a weak feeling.

[Jingle]

Vote Count 2.2

Elements

(E-4): Hu Tao, Broccoli Quest 2, Keyleth, Andresvmb

Hu Tao

(E-4): Celebloki, Random Nurse, Naerys, Guillotina

Dunnstral

(E-8):

Naerys,

Broccoli Quest 2

(E-8):

Keyleth

(E-8):

ssbm_Kyouko

(E-8):

Celebloki

(E-8):

Roden

(E-8):

TimmerRC

(E-8):

Andresvmb

(E-8):

Naerys

(E-8):

davesaz

(E-8):

Guillotina

(E-8):

Random Nurse

(E-8):

Not Voting

: ssbm_Kyouko, Dunnstral, Roden, TimmerRC, davesaz, Elements,

With 14 alive it takes 8 to eject a player from the Game.

Deadline is (expired on 2023-12-17 14:00:00).

Mod Notes: None!

[Guillotina]

There are a few fairly limited places where it's beneficial for town to lie. I don't think derailing a wagon on yourself is one of them.

I don't see how is it beneficial to claim doctor and risk being counterclaimed by a real one if they exist, as town. In fact if there is one, they still shouldn't counterclaim and I hope that is what is happening now.
Fake claiming doctor there at the time they did and how they did it was scummy and even though we did the optimal play to try to let it be resolved at night, it obviously will not work cause if Hu is town, this lie makes them misyeetable for scum and if they are scum well.. they won't night kill themselves, will they.

[Guillotina]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu Tao

Yup

[Guillotina]

I’m certainly not going to listen to Hu Tao. I suppose she could have lied to cover any other PR and avoid getting limmed, but I think it’s more likely she’s a goon.

I am telling you she's a VT who fake claimed doc. I wasn't buying her claim for a second.

If Hu Tao is scum, Broccoli is not their partner. I don't see scum willingly associating themselves with a mechanically outed partner this way.

[Guillotina]

Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.

Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu Tao

This is rubbish. You think broccoli was scumreading me yesterday. I was scumreading gamma. And we are all teamed?

You could be. Distancing exists, after all.

You said I claimed doctor as vanilla town before. Yet you think I scum still?

You claim Doctor as vanilla all the time under the exact same circumstances?

[Dunnstral]

There are a few fairly limited places where it's beneficial for town to lie. I don't think derailing a wagon on yourself is one of them.
Goons are vanilla.
Rolecops are often scum.
Given the above if you think Celebloki must be town for rolecopping Hu Tao and Hu Tao must be town for being vanilla and sorta kinda maybe scumreading Gamma, then you're forgetting a few facts.

I don't think they're both scum, and in fact it is possible they're both town. But neither one is lock.

They're not claiming role cop, they seem to be claiming something more similar to a vanilla cop

[davesaz]

Fucking hell
I’m a gunsmith, stop this shit

VOTE: Hu Tao
A part of why I didn’t care for the claim was because of my role so now that it’s out there, I feel like we should go back there

Righteous theater?

[Guillotina]

Makes no sense as a town role cop to claim vanilla result on me here when goon was flipped already in a complex setup

So you think Cele is lying?

I think Cele is a scum role cop potentially. I'll quote the doc soft

This is not a natural thought. Why claim that you are vanilla instead of leaving you alone knowing you can't do shit at night as scum? Why reveal that information for the rest of the town? And why enter in a thunderdome with you after losing Gamma?

[Guillotina]

I forgot about the Miller claims. So town might have a role cop. Why cele would waste it on me, not sure.

This sounds like salty scum. It's a great thing they actually checked you. Bravo Cele! *Claps*

[Guillotina]

Cele I would go as far as to say try and look for vanilla results. They will probably be town.

Huh? If they are a vanilla cop, goons and vanilla will give result "Vanilla" as in powerless.

[Roden]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Guillotina]

I don't

b

elieve the claim at all. I also don't believe for a second that Hu Tao thought she was actually hammered so the claim itself was no way a twilight-esque spew. It was a calculated gambit.

I was waiting for Guillo's opinion on the Hu Tao claim. He's a bold person and if he doesn't think a Hu Tao lim is the play I'll sheep that I guess. I still think Hu Tao is probably scum so the only way she'll go is through limming.

Can I also just say, love it or hate it, having gob in the game really spices things up.

Even though she wants me dead, I still don't think Kyouko's the play today.

This might seem completely out of left field, but I am just pondering scenario's. In a game this size, and considering Hu Tao's claim of Complex Indecisive Doctor, is a second town protective role likely balance-wise or would that be too town sided?

Here is why I thought Celebloki was softing bodyguard. They capitalize a b in the first post here, and in the next post they make they use the word 'bold'. Their third post asks if a second town protective role would be likely.

By the way, I also capitalized a b in 1263

It seems they are instead claiming some kind of a rolecop role, which is confusing to me given their behavior above.

Hmmm

Celebloki

Do you hard claim this result? As in you cannot retract this result later if you hard claim it.