open 896: describing conker (game over)

[OopsieDaisy]

also just as an fyi gamers i'm gonna be round a friend's house tomorrow so i'll have limited time to respond to stuff and the like

[Black]

Fire is saying a lot of things that I agree with regarding Mafia theory and behavioral stuff

His stance on Meuh feels a little non-committal and almost like he's buttering her up or something?

I feel like the natural progression from 470 would be to either ask Meuh to link a scum game of hers or to seek one out. Instead he just theorizes for a bit and winds up with a pseudo-townread of her

I just feel kinda meh about it

[fireisredsir]

i have played with scum meuh and have read i think every scum meuh game, i was just saying that in the past ive incorrectly applied lessons learned from those

im noncommittal bc historically ive been pretty bad at reading her

[fireisredsir]

probably a better phrased statement in 470 would have been "i don't know for sure how to notice the signs of what scum meuh looks like"

[Black]

I think that makes sense. Being non-committal isn't scum indicative by itself but I think what made me feel meh was it came after Meuh and others started pushing you, like you were trying to appease them

Who do you think the big hood baddie is fire?

[fireisredsir]

well that's my issue rn is that everyone feels kinda towny to me. or at least not very scummy. which tends to make me think that it's more likely to be someone who is holding a decent position of game control

if i were to guess id say it's daisy but i don't think i have good reasons for that, it's more of a gut thing, and possibly partially a reaction to what i feel like are people townreading her too easily

i think if it's dann scum then he's playing with the intention of specifically not looking like scum!dann in a way that would be kind of awkward and probably unsuccessful to accomplish his goals so im not too worried about that rn

id say second guess would probably be you, i don't think i have a particularly compelling reason to townread you at the moment

[Afrayed Knott]

Hi all, I have a job interview today, so am preparing for that. I will try to post later tonight. Which is GMT +4 for me. Currently local time is 1054 hrs.

[Afrayed Knott]

Can you give us more on why you think there's red team in the three of us?

I’m glad you asked that as I think you mean, why the scum read on me, you are not really concerned with the other two. I feel you aren’t, as I already covered them prior to my tentative read list. I was just waiting for a reaction from you. And I think I got the one I wanted.
You are very reactive to any push no matter how sight it might be, for example

elements/knott imo

You are, wrong

Just after the vote on me. Seems a scummy reaction. When you look at the timing. Seems it was a jump on the wagon vote before a read back. That’s what I go the feel of anyway, but I am sure you could argue it was just a push, but you sort of did the same thing on the Meuh wagon.

Then there is 191 192 and then 198 after Danns nudge regarding his thoughts on your scummy posting.

You then ask me to ignore the hood thing, not sure why when you are seemingly an exponent of using it to our advantage.

Then there’s the references to your scummy play style and the fact that Black has been reading you as Red in a lot of games recently.

Just all seems manufactured to me. As if you say it enough then you can’t be scum.

VOTE: Elements

[Afrayed Knott]

What's the reasoning behind the feeling?

I really don't know how they play, it is more gut, but then they stood up for me so I am sort of biased. But looking deeper into their ISO, nothing seems overtly scummy (in my limited experience) And they appear to actually be hunting. Unlike Ari for example. who is blowing cold and colder, after accusing me of not scum hunting.

[Afrayed Knott]

happy Scumday Elements

[Afrayed Knott]

it feels like this is something that's been playing on Fire's mind for a good chunk of this game.

so most of the game then, as we really don't have a chunk to be chunky with

[Afrayed Knott]

LAMIST

please what is this, so much to learn

LAMIST stands for "Look at me, I'm so town!" and it describes a playstyle that players can see as a bit of a scumtell as it revolves around someone acting townie but in a performative way where their actions seem motivated by a want to look good rather than actually wanting to play a townie game.

Gets thrown at me a lot cause I am a player that wants to look good. My logic is that if I'm townread it puts me in a better position to control the game and therefore puts scum in a worse position to do so, alongside the fact that if I'm townread scum are just more likely to go down. Plus tbf I just play my best mafia in comfortable spots, under pressure sometimes I can just crack as town which is cringe but wcyd. Obvs the difference between LAMIST as a scumtell and LAMIST with me is that I play in a LAMIST way regardless of alignment, whereas for other players being LAMIST about things can be a genuine tell.

thanks, so it would be true to say then that even when scum you want to look good, to look town?

[Afrayed Knott]

i haven’t been able to find anything really towny from fire, play feels kind of fluffy to me.

i haven’t been able to find anything really towny from fire, play feels kind of fluffy to me.

What do you mean by fluffy, this in itself sounds opportunistic to me to get on the wagon

i don’t feel like fire is playing to their like… best capabilities right now and is falling back on being more social than actually solving? there’s a lot of the fun posts (and everyone should make fun posts from time to time)

my expectations for a town fire are more than this, it is early but i think most games town fire would have down something explicitly towny to me. that hasn’t happened this game so therefore, wagon. wagon for 1000 years

Ok, can you point at anything that is not town Fire? as you say we all post fun posts, some of us get pulled up though for mentioning all they see is fun posts, but hey besides that anything?

[Afrayed Knott]

The Ydr/Meuh interchange says TvT to me. thats the feel I have reading it through once anyway.

[Afrayed Knott]

Fire did say he was bored in the hood 10 minutes before I started posting and then didn't show up, that deserves a vote at least

yeah, but no one has posted since... so not sure thats indicative of anything.

[Elements]

I think knott is town
His push on me feels real and like he believes what he's saying

[Skygazer]

votecount 1.09

Meuh (3) - Dannflor, OopsieDaisy, Elements
fireisredsir (3) - Ydrasse, Meuh, Aristeia
Elements (2) - Black, Afrayed Knott
OopsieDaisy (1) - fireisredsir

not voting

(0) -

with nine alive, it takes five to give someone the plague. day one ends in (expired on 2023-12-20 15:30:00).

mod notes:

[OopsieDaisy]

LAMIST

please what is this, so much to learn

LAMIST stands for "Look at me, I'm so town!" and it describes a playstyle that players can see as a bit of a scumtell as it revolves around someone acting townie but in a performative way where their actions seem motivated by a want to look good rather than actually wanting to play a townie game.

Gets thrown at me a lot cause I am a player that wants to look good. My logic is that if I'm townread it puts me in a better position to control the game and therefore puts scum in a worse position to do so, alongside the fact that if I'm townread scum are just more likely to go down. Plus tbf I just play my best mafia in comfortable spots, under pressure sometimes I can just crack as town which is cringe but wcyd. Obvs the difference between LAMIST as a scumtell and LAMIST with me is that I play in a LAMIST way regardless of alignment, whereas for other players being LAMIST about things can be a genuine tell.

thanks, so it would be true to say then that even when scum you want to look good, to look town?

Yeehaw

[OopsieDaisy]

All the things that are beneficial to me as town when I'm read well are just as beneficial to me when I'm scum. Having control, pushing townies into the POE instead of me, I'm comfy.

[fireisredsir]

having looked at some other knott games i think my previous bar for his posting may have been a little low. he's been townier. but the recent posts are decent enough

[fireisredsir]

daisy did you have any thoughts on 474? do you disagree?

[fireisredsir]

I'ma be real I don't buy into the Ydrasse push right now either. A lot of what I read from your end felt more like paranoia than a reasoned scumread.

this too is like, not a reason to scumread someone. saying it "felt like paranoia" when paranoia is only something that town can experience doesn't really explain why you're suspicious of it

what makes you think this is more likely to come from scum?

[OopsieDaisy]

daisy did you have any thoughts on 474? do you disagree?

I think there are good points but mafia also need to get players pushed out, playing in survival mode is only going to get you so far so mafia can't just rely on having good faith interactions with townies for the win. It is necessary for their win con to engage in bad faith. The incentive of good faith interactions is getting townread but the downside is that you wouldn't be helping your team, you'd just be playing the game as a survivor, so I don't think bad faith interactions = more likely town.

Also just as a personal thing, I'm not interested in incentivising lashing out and annoyance. So it's like, I'm not gonna consider it as a townie thing. It probably is just NAI and my biases are getting in the way, but when I townread Black & Dann and townlean Afrayed that leaves two candidates in the hood as possible scum to me and you've already got enough votes, NAI things aren't enough.

I do need to sort the small hood out but I can do that when I have time lol, my poor friend's been sat here watching me type this up so I should get back to hanging out.

[fireisredsir]

mafia also need to get players pushed out, playing in survival mode is only going to get you so far so mafia can't just rely on having good faith interactions with townies for the win. It is necessary for their win con to engage in bad faith. 

she's calling you town so i don't see how her calling your posting bad is helping to push you out or playing to scum wincon. i still don't understand what you actually think is scummy here

it just feels to me like you are in a comfortable position with me and meuh being the wagons and are unnaturally resistant to changing that state of things. i don't think that the reasons you have for that really add up and it doesn't feel like you're interested in genuinely evaluating who is scum

[OopsieDaisy]

my point isn't that meuh's actions are themselves scummy, i think they are mostly NAI to me. i just townread around her in the hood so POE happens.