Large Normal 246: Game Over

[Hu Tao]

Why would naerys friendly neighbor the doctor claim after waiting days to do so.

[Hu Tao]

Enchant makes sense. And I also like I said earlier thought key was genuine who enchant replaced.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Enchant makes sense. And I also like I said earlier thought key was genuine who enchant replaced.

WDYM? Please use longer sentences.

[Hu Tao]

Sorry I can't English sometimes. I think what Enchant is saying makes sense. I also stated that Key when they claimed sounded very genuine, and not a scummy claim.

[Enchant]

Why would naerys friendly neighbor the doctor claim after waiting days to do so.

Nonsense.

Claiming and chaining self with teammate-doctor claim is also nonsense.


All "fucking absurd" goes in probably town territory. Mafia atleast have some plan to live.
Probably.

[Enchant]

I don't think i have any authority to press on it after previous game.

[Enchant]

By the way, why no one reacted when i claimed doctor after my slot claimed VT?

Did i look like blatantly lying, and if so, why no one pointed it out.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm on page 101 where the claims stopped. Enchant is probably a good lim but please dont rush it right now, I want to look over the mechanics before end of day.

I know several of you have seen my mech-solves so unvote temporarily please at least - those that have seen them recently include Dunnstral, Broccoli, Elements, Hu Tao, maybe Elements if he spectate after dying in that recently completed 9:12 Open game

[Elements]

maybe Elements if they spectate after dying in that recently completed 9:12 Open game

I didn't die in 9:12 so I'm assuming you mean someone else?

[Hu Tao]

UNVOTE:

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Sorry I can't English sometimes. I think what Enchant is saying makes sense. I also stated that Key when they claimed sounded very genuine, and not a scummy claim.

Yeah okay I understand why you don't want Enchant, but that wasn't my question. Let me rephrase it:

Earlier you were fine with limming a VT (Enchant). Now you say we shouldn't vote VTs (so including Timmer for instance). What changed your mind about limming VTs?

Why would naerys friendly neighbor the doctor claim after waiting days to do so.

Nonsense.

Claiming and chaining self with teammate-doctor claim is also nonsense.


All "fucking absurd" goes in probably town territory. Mafia atleast have some plan to live.
Probably.

I agree that scum *probably* has a plan which is why I'm not really pushing these two, but I'm interested if Hu Tao can scum case them beyond the claim.

By the way, why no one reacted when i claimed doctor after my slot claimed VT?

Did i look like blatantly lying, and if so, why no one pointed it out.

I thought you were obviously joking. You weren't?

I'm on page 101 where the claims stopped. Enchant is probably a good lim but please dont rush it right now, I want to look over the mechanics before end of day.

I know several of you have seen my mech-solves so unvote temporarily please at least - those that have seen them recently include Dunnstral, Broccoli, Elements, Hu Tao, maybe Elements if he spectate after dying in that recently completed 9:12 Open game

Sure have as much time as you want - I am not rushing anywhere. In fact I'm trying to consider more possibilities now because I just finished a game where rushing day phases lost town the game.

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

maybe Elements if they spectate after dying in that recently completed 9:12 Open game

I didn't die in 9:12 so I'm assuming you mean someone else?

yeah I meant Enchant, he replaced in close to D1 deadline and hammered scum!cobblerfone, then got NKed

[Hu Tao]

I think there are so many PRs that it doesn't make sense for them to all be town. Which is why I started saying maybe don't vote in VT

[Elements]

I should probably claim my role too at this point as I'm also a not VT

[Elements]

I'm a town flagbearer

[Hu Tao]

What's that

[Elements]

A lie

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@mod

- if a Traffic Analyst checked a Friendly Neighbor (both unmodified), would the TA receive a "Can Communicate" result assuming no other interference?

[Enchant]

I thought you were obviously joking. You weren't?

I saw Guilo CCing Roden, so i claimed Doc as well for hell of it. Then retracted to look like doctor which really don't want to die. It didn't matter because my slot already claimed VT.

I mostly ISO slots i replaced in, but this time i decided that i won't.

[Enchant]

TldR: Yes it was joke.

[Naerys]

Why would naerys friendly neighbor the doctor claim after waiting days to do so.

I explained my thought process.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm back and forth on whether Dave should reveal modifiers, I think if I've seen it then scum has, especially since scum knows whether or not dave's action was interfered with N1, and they know Dunn's alignment and (probably) his role - it would be weird for town to fakeclaim miller out the gate meaning if he's town they'll take that at face value, and if he's scum they know whether he's vanilla or PR.

I think trying to roleswap with Celebloki was very town for Dunn though so yeah, scum should know why the neighborize failed and should be able to tell you're either disloyal or simple, unless they aliened you or Dunn. If they'd aliened Dunn and you hadn't softed you might have been able to get someone. I'm assuming you're just simple and if that's the case I'm not into an Enchant lim, I think mafia has only one goon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm just going to post everything I have so far, there are times where I was thinking dave should and shouldn't claim modifiers so you'll see sometimes I talk as if he should hide them and others I consider disloyal versus simple.

Black - Babysitter Hider
Celeb - Rolecop
Kawaii - VT

Hu Tao - VT
Elements - VT
Broccoli Quest 2 - VT
Enchant - VT
TimmerRC - VT

Dunnstral - Miller
ssbm_Kyouko - Miller
Andresvmb - Odd Night Messenger Even Night Friendly Neighbor
Naerys - 1-Shot Friendly Neighbor
Guillotina - 2-Shot Indecisive Doctor
Random Nurse - Macho Combined Bodyguard Disloyal Vigilante
davesaz - Simple/Disloyal (guessing modifier) Neighborizer

vs.

Gamma - Goon
Roden - Complex Alien

Guillo and RN are the most suspicious claims, but RNs claim is more valuable

RN bodyguards dave
dave checks Guillo or a VT

12 alive, 10-2
1 8-2
2 6-2
3 4-2
4 2-2

We get 3 mislims before MELO, 4 lims total
Could be scum are 1-1 or 2-0/0-2 between VTs/PRs.

Assuming there is scum in the VTs, if we lim there, scum would have to kill PRs, because killing a VT would leave 4 VTs and we have 4 mislims.
Let's look at the possibilty there are 2 scum in the PR claims - if we can establish this is not the case, it means there is at least one in the VTs and we can lim in there.
Dunnstral was not neighborized by Dann - Dann is probably either disloyal or simple, so I could see Dunn as just being town here.
Kyouko - I know I'm town but am otherwise unconfirmed by any PR results
Andres - if he's scum it means Dunnstral is too. Dunnstral is probably not scum which means by extension Andres's FN claim checks out and he's town. Andres can send a message to someone toNight to confirm that half of his role as well, and toMorrow night he'll also be able to confirm himself to someone else and that will entirely rule him out of being scum because there are only 2 left
Naerys - same thing as Andres, if she is scum it is with Guillo
Guillo - suspicious that the claim is 2-shot so it now can't be used to help out anymore. With Mafia having an Alien they could stop or kill an ungated Doc
RN - if he's town he can confirm townies every day he doesn't die, and if he's scum he still has to provide us with results in either the PRs or the VTs to narrow things down
Dave - has softed his role is either Simple or Disloyal and will be a prime target for NKs if he is town

It seems unlikely fmpov there are 2 scum amongst the PRs unless it's exactly {Guillo, Naerys} meaning there should be at least 1 in the VTs. Could also be {RN, Dunnstral} - Dunnstral is definitely capable of fabricating RN's claim for him

VTs:

Hu Tao
Elements
BQ2
Enchant - knowing dave's modifiers will shed light on whether this could really be a VT, I don't think there are any goons left. If we kill this and it flips scum PR we will know dave is disloyal but the way he says Enchant is a goon I lean toward simple meaning this is likely just a mislim given town's power level
Timmer

PRs:
Dunnstral - being confirmed/flipped would confirm andres
Kyouko - none
Andres - can send a message to confirm he is a messenger / is confirmed if Dunn is confirmed
Naerys - is confirmed if Guillo is confirmed
Guillo - can be pseudo-confirmed by dave regardless of his modifier, or confirmed if dave is disloyal - disloyal seems too strong for the setup though
RN - can confirm townies every day
Dave - able to confirm other PRs if simple

If we are left with Guillo/Naerys or Andres/Dunn after 3 mislims (6 alive), Dunn/Guillo should contain a scum (Guillo dies first if all 4 live)

All these role make Traffic Analyst very likely for mafia.
An Informed TA could give them the edge if they were informed about things like the existence of dave's role or the existence of FNs (this makes Guillo/Naerys suspect)
Could also see a Simple Alien or similar being able to fuck with the interactions with VTs.
I think Mafia either have 3 PRs, or one of andres/naerys/RN is lying due to "Friendly Neighbor" and "Vigilante" being town-only in normals, which means these are further ways for town to get clears
Probably Mafia have 3 PRs, the flipped Complex Alien, a Traffic Analyst (possibly informed), and something else that can interfere with clears like, idk, a disloyal/simple rolestopper or even a disloyal jailkeeper would look pretty towny to a rolecop, no?


Babysitter Hider is swingy and combined bodyguard disloyal vigilante can be swingy too I guess, can either kill himself or get clears, and given mafia had an alien he wouldn't be able to do anything once his role came out so it's not too imbalanced in town's favor in that respect.

I think Andres should send a message to dave as a way of checking if dave is being rolestopped or aliened, and RN should bodyguard dave. assuming NAR (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ormal_Game), even if andres is NKed, dave would get the message:

Killing doesn't stop the actions of the dead player. (Imagine that all kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.) This means that kills generally do not affect other actions for the purpose of the Golden Rule.

Scum could risk blocking Andres but in this case dave's hood would go off and as long as he doesn't reveal his target or modifiers, scum will be incentivized to stop dave from getting clears/guilties / frame his targets

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I thought you were obviously joking. You weren't?

I saw Guilo CCing Roden, so i claimed Doc as well for hell of it. Then retracted to look like doctor which really don't want to die. It didn't matter because my slot already claimed VT.

I mostly ISO slots i replaced in, but this time i decided that i won't.

TldR: Yes it was joke.

TLDR: Enchant town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe just limming in the VTs and having Dave confirm in the VTs while RN protects Dave is a good start, while Andres messages Guillo, forcing Guillo to cross-confirm Andres as town. I think this helps resolve the PR claims while simultaneously POEing the VTs