Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

[implosion]

i opened deas” iso to try and figure out what i disliked but looking at the posts now it really is just vibes at most

like i could nitpick but i’m shrugging now

This is a good post.

[implosion]

have you checked that to how implosion normally plays?

I haven't actively checked, but I've read a scum game of his before and everything he's posted so far is within his scum range and fits my mental model of scum!implo.

Sort of edit:
Took a while to find because apparently he hasn't played a lot this year, but I just skimmed his iso in a town game of his, and I don't feel the same overly-nuanced tone in that town game at all.

i mean it's completely true that i'm not out of my scumrange yet but also my scumrange is apparently lot better than i'd given it credit for given the last scumgame i played.

[implosion]

here is one example of me being weirdly way too nuanced in (probably) that game you were skimming the iso of. the beginning of the iso probably looks very different from my play here so far because i entered the game on like page 15 or something.

[implosion]

i'm going to stop talking about that now

i think Elements/Klick/Ydrasse/Dragoneater/T3 is a pretty good pool of town. Elements I think actually should just be locktown for that one post, it's like a soft townslip. ssbm might actually just be town for healing them because I don't really know what scum gets out of that in this gamestate. Someone was saying they felt they wanted to re-evaluate T3 but idk. I'll probably do that at some point but shrug. I guess this leaves DV and Appearance and I don't really get why DV is being townread. I think I get why some people have called Appearance town but don't really see it.

[DeasVail]

Wild that less than 3 pages have happened since my last content.

I have mixed feelings about the "implosion is trying to look like town" angle. I both want to say that it's probably a personality/playstyle quirk and that of course I'm going to try to look like town in a setup that is about finding and being found as town (which is I guess every setup that I've played since stepping down as listmod >_>). I don't think the latter is really being fair to the argument but it is just an annoying accusation to have levied when idk, I think I do fundamentally play the game with wanting to appear town in mind as town because I just enjoy the game more when I am found as town, it's probably not even out of thinking it's the best way to win, it's just the way I automatically think about the game.

I think probably something that does exist is being seen there but it's probably something you'd see in pretty much any of my towngames and it's telling that I'm being townread by Ydrasse (who has played with me very recently and also i think a second time semi-recently) and scumread by dragoneater (who i think has never played with me) and deasvail (who i'm pretty sure i've played with but probably not in something like half a decade). Though it is possible Ydrasse is scum

A few of your posts before this point have given the impression of not having enough time for the game/being busy with other things. So I’m interested in why your play before this point would be representative of your usual gameplay to the point where people’s experience with you would be so relevant.

To me, it feels premature to conclude that certain people townread/scumread you because of their experience with you.

[implosion]

Regarding DV: I mentioned 69 as weird, I still don't really know how I feel about it in isolation, it's definitely a post scum can make but if he's scum it might imply something about his buddy when put in the context of the rest of the game. His read on me is a sensible thing to do as scum. Like there's nothing in his ISO that deconfirms him as town but I don't think he's done anything that he either couldn't or particularly wouldn't do as scum in this game.

[implosion]

A few of your posts before this point have given the impression of not having enough time for the game/being busy with other things. So I’m interested in why your play before this point would be representative of your usual gameplay to the point where people’s experience with you would be so relevant.

To me, it feels premature to conclude that certain people townread/scumread you because of their experience with you.

I mean, Ydrasse literally asked Dragoneater if he'd checked if what he was seeing wasn't just how I usually played. Honestly I'm mostly annoyed at the way Dragoneater is acting toward me. I have been busy with other things but my first spate of posting was me with a decent amount of time to look at/think about things iirc so it's probably fairly representative of my typical gameplay

[implosion]

I will also say DV is also a very good scum player in my mind and maybe I'm giving him a high bar but that might have been implanted out of nothing

[implosion]

But also I think the game as a whole has been looking plenty town, like I'm not in want of more people who look generally town, though i feel like that's the vast majority of d1s I play these days

[DeasVail]

I will also say DV is also a very good scum player in my mind and maybe I'm giving him a high bar but that might have been implanted out of nothing

It’s weird to me that you’d use the amount of time since we last played together to question the reliability of my read on you and then make an unsolicited comment on my scumplay (particularly since 5-10 years ago I was probably better known for strong town play than strong scum play).

I don’t actually know if it’s alignment-relevant in this case, but it gave me very strong “having your cake and eating it” vibes.

Though on that, I have often wondered why one can only do one or the other. What’s the point of having cake if you can’t eat it? How do you eat cake if you don’t have it? Life’s big questions…

[Klick]

@DV: Am I correct that you're trending fairly positive towards both Dragon and Ydrasse atm?

[implosion]

Alright game solved for realsies

HEAL: Klick, Appearance, Dragon, Elements, DeasVail

Now I just lurk until DV and Klick figure out this is the correct solve and then we just convince two others.

The kind of rhetoric of this post is something I feel like I could write an essay about. In the last coalition game I played, I was scum and there was a player (Hero at Heart) who was repeatedly giving similar rhetoric of surety about their coalition (nb: both scum were in it). I think d1 in that game was somewhat easy for me to navigate probably in large part due to that kind of rhetoric, where certain people (myself included) were almost viewed as above scrutiny in a way that felt like it radiated out from Hero's reads. Granted, Hero actually did change his reads plenty of times iirc, but ultimately the town deferred to it with the only real objection coming from me (because i softly wanted my scumbuddy off the coalition).

In this case, I think this coalition is massively likely to have scum on it somewhere. And I don't think DragonEater has the same kind of rhetorical sway that Hero did in that game. But it really makes me not like the direction that this day is going right now.

It’s weird to me that you’d use the amount of time since we last played together to question the reliability of my read on you and then make an unsolicited comment on my scumplay (particularly since 5-10 years ago I was probably better known for strong town play than strong scum play).

The comment on scumplay is more a continuation of 155 than it is of 156

[DeasVail]

@DV: Am I correct that you're trending fairly positive towards both Dragon and Ydrasse atm?

Sorry I meant to reply to your post but got distracted by cake

I would say so, yes. Ydrasse especially so. Dragon is someone I need to do another read-through of.

[Klick]

@implosion: Then what do you think of my post which was basically the same thing?

[DragonEater70]

I will be answering things addressed to me later on today, but first I want to express a general complaint. This is addressed at everyone:

I've given this game a 36 hour break, and I come back to maybe a single page worth of posts, more than half of which is people saying stuff into the air (most of which if we ignore implo's posts which I haven't fully read yet, is either stating TR's or asking about TR's) and not really moving the game along. THIS is what I was getting at as being anti-town earlier, NOT "having more townreads than scumreads".

I do not like this game state at all. Elements asked me who would I think I'm wrong about if my coalition fails, and currently I have NO IDEA because none of my reads are sufficiently evolved. How can I read anyone with no ACTION? I can't, and I bet you can't either.

What I want is a dynamic gamestate, like in this game or this second game or this other game (I chose those because they had a very strong sense of "something is actually happening" in the first three pages, and rhe conversationg goes somewhere). But instead there's just people townreading each other with almost no analysis and not even pushing who they think is scum, as scum.

You might think I'm just whining here, but what I actually want is to ask you people to bring this game to life and case people (idc for which alignment you case them) and hurt/heal people and react to stuff happening so we have a dynamic game and not just a pile of reads and questions about reads.

[implosion]

@implosion: Then what do you think of my post which was basically the same thing?

Your post is rhetorically very different and also I think your group has a much higher chance of being all town

[implosion]

HEAL: Elements
HEAL: DragonEater

[Klick]

I will be answering things addressed to me later on today, but first I want to express a general complaint. This is addressed at everyone:

I've given this game a 36 hour break, and I come back to maybe a single page worth of posts, more than half of which is people saying stuff into the air (most of which if we ignore implo's posts which I haven't fully read yet, is either stating TR's or asking about TR's) and not really moving the game along. THIS is what I was getting at as being anti-town earlier, NOT "having more townreads than scumreads".

I do not like this game state at all. Elements asked me who would I think I'm wrong about if my coalition fails, and currently I have NO IDEA because none of my reads are sufficiently evolved. How can I read anyone with no ACTION? I can't, and I bet you can't either.

What I want is a dynamic gamestate, like in this game or this second game or this other game (I chose those because they had a very strong sense of "something is actually happening" in the first three pages, and rhe conversationg goes somewhere). But instead there's just people townreading each other with almost no analysis and not even pushing who they think is scum, as scum.

You might think I'm just whining here, but what I actually want is to ask you people to bring this game to life and case people (idc for which alignment you case them) and hurt/heal people and react to stuff happening so we have a dynamic game and not just a pile of reads and questions about reads.

This game is super readable
I think what I want will give you what you want anyway

[Klick]

Conflict isn't the friction that causes readable gamestates
Genuine engagement is

[implosion]

@implosion: Then what do you think of my post which was basically the same thing?

Your post is rhetorically very different and also I think your group has a much higher chance of being all town

To elaborate because on rereading your post this is probably very unclear: the rhetorical difference that concerns me is that DragonEater's post is more dismissive in a sense. He essentially is saying "this is the solve, deal with it" where you're trying to actively work with your townreads (which is not a concerning pattern of gamestate to me).

[Klick]

The reason you're not getting super dynamic here Dragon is because you've got players like DV and implosion as dominant players who just aren't going to be playing like that due to several factors fundamental to them

[DeasVail]

The reason you're not getting super dynamic here Dragon is because you've got players like DV and implosion as dominant players who just aren't going to be playing like that due to several factors fundamental to them

I don’t know what these fundamental factors are, even for me!

Laziness?

[implosion]

that's funny because i immediately know all the factors being referred to for me

[Klick]

The reason you're not getting super dynamic here Dragon is because you've got players like DV and implosion as dominant players who just aren't going to be playing like that due to several factors fundamental to them

I don’t know what these fundamental factors are, even for me!

Laziness?

Methodical, less time to devote, has a comfortable approach to the game that takes things slower

[Klick]

Conflict-averse