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Thomith He/TheyMafia ScumHe/They
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thomith could be a court jester
I have a Large Normal currently Ongoing.
I have a Micro Normal currently Ongoing.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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In post 548, Gypyx wrote: Luca how would you differenciate a townie who's just wrong from scum trying to divert?
It's on a case by case basis. For example, I've come to the conclusion that Ketchup and Black are misguided townies, but nothing about OutWorld or Psyche's progressions ring true for me.
With Psyche, he has gone from suspecting Bugs right out of the gate, to then doing nothing but defend the slot upon Dann's replace-in, for no justifiable reason that I can see. He doesn't even have another scumread - he is just trying to raise doubts about the suspicion people have about Dann. Psyche has now even changed his mind about Bugs' opening post being scummy!
I get the feeling this is a desperate scum team who know they need Dann to survive the day to have any chance of winning this.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Although maybe scratch the bit about Psyche changing his mind about Bugs' opening post - I think i misread what he said.-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
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i disagree that bugs did nothing to redeem the first bad impression. his posts weren't useful but they did read townIn post 547, Luca Blight wrote: Psyche also looks a bit dodgy upon a Dann red flip:
In post 374, Psyche wrote: eggh sure dann is smooth but i honestly don't think bugspray made any scummy posts past their first one
if the incoherence in later posts were performative i feel like it wouldve been played more as silly/detached than it was
even w all the wild stuff there's a consistency of tone across the iso that i think someone not really believing those things would have had trouble committing to
The fact Psyche scumread Bugs' opening, and then Bugs did nothing to redeem that first bad impression, certainly doesn't warrant a defence at this juncture, especially when Psyche has nothing better to offer up instead.
Dann/OutWorld/Psyche, I'm calling it now.
Of course, with the unreadable lurkers in the game there are still some variables at play.You can't step in the same river twice.-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
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do you think bugs made more than one scummy post?You can't step in the same river twice.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Psyche, part of the problem here for me is you're defending Dann but offering nothing up in return.
If we shouldn't eliminate Dann, then who?-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
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i'll figure it out eventually, but in the meantime it's still helpful to try to keep town from getting limmedYou can't step in the same river twice.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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In post 557, Psyche wrote: i'll figure it out eventually, but in the meantime it's still helpful to try to keep town from getting limmed
It seems to me that, based on what you've posted, Bugs has made the scummiest post of the game in your view.
Is that an accurate assessment?-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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In post 544, Luca Blight wrote:In post 542, Dannflor wrote: ignore the first quote
Can I get you to explain your change of read regarding Project?
i think project's 361 was very charitable/empathetic towards ketchup in a way that i don't think scum would be-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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why is the drew vote very badIn post 545, Gypyx wrote: i guess OWER has a bit of the "i need to talk like a townie would" energy but that's certainely no D1 worthy stuff
the drew vote is also very bad and i see it as Dann looking for a way to confibias himself into creating a wagon on drew?
VOTE: Dannflor-
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Gypyx She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
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Because of the afforementionned reasons and cause you yourself admitted that it had pretty bad reasoning behind itIn post 561, Dannflor wrote:
why is the drew vote very badIn post 545, Gypyx wrote: i guess OWER has a bit of the "i need to talk like a townie would" energy but that's certainely no D1 worthy stuff
the drew vote is also very bad and i see it as Dann looking for a way to confibias himself into creating a wagon on drew?
VOTE: DannflorShowWhite Flag : Carebear Edition is ongoing ! (13/13) hit me up if you wanna get on the priority replacement list / spectate
i also have a Mini Normal !
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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why was it bad reasoning? I never said it had pretty bad reasoning I said I exaggerated the weight of it
your stances feel very convenient here like you're just parroting the positions you should be taking-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
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i don't really like to spend time doing this, but 145 is frankly all junk
you assert that bugs made more than one perspective slip. "perspective slips" and "scum pt slips" aren't a real thing. at best they're extremely rare. but the idea that bugs did it repeatedly over like a 5 post timeframe is ridiculous. how many times have you ever perspective slipped in a game as scum? on a similar vein, you repeatedly note that bugs fails to follow the context of what's being written, but only imply that this is scummy without ever engaging w the question of why someone being really bad at reading could say anything about whether they got a town or scum role pm. it doesn't. this set of accusations effectively requires that bugspray be, er, not very good at thinking, but never even considers the possibility that this observation about bugs' abilities could explain in a nai way pretty much every feature of bugs's play, even their first post.
also, you repeatedly cast survivalism -- trying not to get limmed -- as scummy. but town are at least as motivated as scum to not get limmed, both theoretically and empirically. stuff like deflecting attention, appealling to emotions, and so on are totally common responses by any type of player to scrutiny and again you don't attempt to think through how these things you don't like about bugs's posts actually suggest a scum win condition.
there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations here. you're taking things you don't like about bugs' play and handwaving the steps that explain why this play is more likely to come from scum than town.You can't step in the same river twice.-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
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i think the rest of bugs's iso recontextualized their first post in a way that makes it close to nai and a terrible basis for a vote on page 20In post 558, Luca Blight wrote:In post 557, Psyche wrote: i'll figure it out eventually, but in the meantime it's still helpful to try to keep town from getting limmed
It seems to me that, based on what you've posted, Bugs has made the scummiest post of the game in your view.
Is that an accurate assessment?You can't step in the same river twice.-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
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i'm going to avoid having a back and forth about this though unless dann's lim really seems imminent. i expect i'll follow up with specific players to try to understand whether their votes are convincingly motivated and so on but i agree that providing a better alternative would be the best use of my time.You can't step in the same river twice.-
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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idk Gypyx maybe I'm having a bad reaction because your conclusions are so stinky
but your catchup leaves a lot to be desired in terms of actually engaging with any part of the game in more than what appears to be a surface level-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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In post 564, Psyche wrote: i don't really like to spend time doing this, but 145 is frankly all junk
you assert that bugs made more than one perspective slip. "perspective slips" and "scum pt slips" aren't a real thing. at best they're extremely rare. but the idea that bugs did it repeatedly over like a 5 post timeframe is ridiculous. how many times have you ever perspective slipped in a game as scum? on a similar vein, you repeatedly note that bugs fails to follow the context of what's being written, but only imply that this is scummy without ever engaging w the question of why someone being really bad at reading could say anything about whether they got a town or scum role pm. it doesn't. this set of accusations effectively requires that bugspray be, er, not very good at thinking, but never even considers the possibility that this observation about bugs' abilities could explain in a nai way pretty much every feature of bugs's play, even their first post.
also, you repeatedly cast survivalism -- trying not to get limmed -- as scummy. but town are at least as motivated as scum to not get limmed, both theoretically and empirically. stuff like deflecting attention, appealling to emotions, and so on are totally common responses by any type of player to scrutiny and again you don't attempt to think through how these things you don't like about bugs's posts actually suggest a scum win condition.
there's not enough weighing of alternative explanations here. you're taking things you don't like about bugs' play and handwaving the steps that explain why this play is more likely to come from scum than town.
I've definitely caught players such as Aaron Frost and I think even Bugs pt slipping in a past, so that most definitely is a thing, although that's not what I'm accusing them of in this game. Perspective slipping also definitely is a thing - it just takes some observational skills in order to notice, but scum by their very nature have a different perspective to a townie player - that's the name of the game. Have I ever done it as scum? probably, but I wouldn't know, as I'd be looking at it from a scum perspective and not a town one.
You've misunderstood the finer details of my case, especially regarding the pt slip - Bugs halfheartedly agreed with my observation about Delta pt slipping, but then shades me at the same time, and forgets all about it and votes you for while in a desperate whirl of emotion. Yes, townies get emotional too, but this is a disengaged scum player who is finding it hard to summon the motivation to read the posts properly, and from my experience with Bugs is definitely a scum tell after they've been caught out. Bugs knows what happens when I catch them out early - it doesn't end well for them, hence throwing in the towel without even trying to challenge my points.
I at least understand where you're misguidedly coming from, so I'll consider that maybe I was wrong about you being Dann's partner.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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hey quick tip for the future luca
scum are actually generally much more concerned with looking consistent in their reads and who they are agreeing/disagreeing with than scum-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
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like, this explanation bugs provided for their first post is already plausible on its own. it gets way more plausible when you see all the other unforced errors they put out before leavingIn post 93, bugspray wrote:
you are seriously misrepping this. people make mistakes very frequently. there is so mental gymnastics to ignore occam's razor. i had the concern the moment i read the game thread after checking my role pm and decided to immediately ask it publiclyIn post 85, OutWorldER wrote:
bugspray's comment I do think is scummy and performative: to ask the question genuinely in the first place would require them to believe that the NRG (3 people) + listmod signed off on a game that had a role which is no longer normal/considered simple. It comes off to me as faking a dumbtell and also as a way to say "hey if I was scum I could've just asked this in scum PT".In post 16, Psyche wrote:
how does this kind of either/or read happenIn post 14, OutWorldER wrote: one of bugspray/psyche is scum, leaning bugspray
But it being a genuine brainfart isnotoutside the realm of possibility. I've had dumber moments in my time playing mafia. If this is the case than you, Psyche, could very easily be scum trying to capitalize on a townie blunder, which is how I arrived at the either/or read since at the time I posted that your vote looked a bit more thought out than Drew's; Drew's looked more like a kneejerk reaction and it's why I lean town on him.You can't step in the same river twice.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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In post 570, Dannflor wrote: hey quick tip for the future luca
scum are actually generally much more concerned with looking consistent in their reads and who they are agreeing/disagreeing with than scum
Context is everything.
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