Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

[DragonEater70]

Thing is, even after 1285 you haven't really voted me and haven't really expressed a verdict on Klick. Like basically what I got from you is that there are a lot of reasons why Klick is scum but maybe he's town, andthen on the other hand there are reasons why I am town but then actually they are inside what you imagine to be my scumrange (maybe correctly, but probably not), so therefore I am scum? With DV?

It feels very incomplete.

[DragonEater70]

Scum:
you still haven't really done what I asked you to do which is to make up your mind and have an actual read on the Dragon v Klick thing which FYPOV should contain one scum. It feels like you are trying to keep both options open.

how would keeping both options open be at all beneficial to me as scum in the current gamestate?

Because if you are scum then there is currently a town block of Klick/Dragon/DV, which has just gone through infighting and you'd like to be able to steer both me and Klick to vote the other, but you aren't really sure which one is the viable lim if any, so you are leaving both semi-viable.

Do you disagree that this is the case if you are scum?

[DragonEater70]

I probably phrased this horribly so if you need clarification just ask.

[fireisredsir]

Like okay yeah I could see why you could see DV as either my or Klick's partner because I can see him as Klick's partner for the same reasons.

But I can't see why you are scumreading me for a meta argument about what I could think as scum rather than what I could do as scum.

that isn't the reason i think you're scum, i already gave a lot of reasons why i think you're scum

that's the reason why i think i was wrong to previously believe that portion of the game wouldn't come from scum and so you were more likely to be town

[fireisredsir]

Thing is, even after 1285 you haven't really voted me and haven't really expressed a verdict on Klick. Like basically what I got from you is that there are a lot of reasons why Klick is scum but maybe he's town, andthen on the other hand there are reasons why I am town but then actually they are inside what you imagine to be my scumrange (maybe correctly, but probably not), so therefore I am scum? With DV?

It feels very incomplete.

yes i think you are scum and klick is town, you shouldn't need a vote to figure that out

[DragonEater70]

Like okay yeah I could see why you could see DV as either my or Klick's partner because I can see him as Klick's partner for the same reasons.

But I can't see why you are scumreading me for a meta argument about what I could think as scum rather than what I could do as scum.

that isn't the reason i think you're scum, i already gave a lot of reasons why i think you're scum

that's the reason why i think i was wrong to previously believe that portion of the game wouldn't come from scum and so you were more likely to be town

Could ypu refresh my memory? Because I mostly remember you saying I'm in my scumrange, being performative (even though I'm SUPER known to be performative as town, not sure if it was this game where I quoted proof of this or another one), and then trying to get townread which again is something I do as town.

If there's any other reason please remind me what it is.

[DragonEater70]

Thing is, even after 1285 you haven't really voted me and haven't really expressed a verdict on Klick. Like basically what I got from you is that there are a lot of reasons why Klick is scum but maybe he's town, andthen on the other hand there are reasons why I am town but then actually they are inside what you imagine to be my scumrange (maybe correctly, but probably not), so therefore I am scum? With DV?

It feels very incomplete.

yes i think you are scum and klick is town, you shouldn't need a vote to figure that out

I'm saying your thought process feels incomplete regardless of the vote or lack thereof.

[fireisredsir]

Scum:
you still haven't really done what I asked you to do which is to make up your mind and have an actual read on the Dragon v Klick thing which FYPOV should contain one scum. It feels like you are trying to keep both options open.

how would keeping both options open be at all beneficial to me as scum in the current gamestate?

Because if you are scum then there is currently a town block of Klick/Dragon/DV, which has just gone through infighting and you'd like to be able to steer both me and Klick to vote the other, but you aren't really sure which one is the viable lim if any, so you are leaving both semi-viable.

Do you disagree that this is the case if you are scum?

yes i disagree, there's no reason to wait things out. that literally gains me nothing if im scum. if you were all town it would just give you time to find each other

if im scum who wants to not die today then one of you two or appearance has to be the elim and the way to make that happen is to push for it. sitting around waiting means i would have no strong position in the game and means people probably just default to pushing me

[fireisredsir]

Thing is, even after 1285 you haven't really voted me and haven't really expressed a verdict on Klick. Like basically what I got from you is that there are a lot of reasons why Klick is scum but maybe he's town, andthen on the other hand there are reasons why I am town but then actually they are inside what you imagine to be my scumrange (maybe correctly, but probably not), so therefore I am scum? With DV?

It feels very incomplete.

yes i think you are scum and klick is town, you shouldn't need a vote to figure that out

I'm saying your thought process feels incomplete regardless of the vote or lack thereof.

i mean sure its incomplete if you keep ignoring parts of it

[fireisredsir]

Like okay yeah I could see why you could see DV as either my or Klick's partner because I can see him as Klick's partner for the same reasons.

But I can't see why you are scumreading me for a meta argument about what I could think as scum rather than what I could do as scum.

that isn't the reason i think you're scum, i already gave a lot of reasons why i think you're scum

that's the reason why i think i was wrong to previously believe that portion of the game wouldn't come from scum and so you were more likely to be town

Could ypu refresh my memory? Because I mostly remember you saying I'm in my scumrange, being performative (even though I'm SUPER known to be performative as town, not sure if it was this game where I quoted proof of this or another one), and then trying to get townread which again is something I do as town.

If there's any other reason please remind me what it is.

i can write out more later but most of it is in my iso

[DragonEater70]

mmm 164 is a pretty good post if dragon is scum

What does this even mean

it means that it felt well-placed as far as gaining towncred, and if you're scum then it was well-timed and well-written. i have seen you play scum (pretty well imo) but it still made me stop and consider whether it was something i should be considering out of your range

i don't think id say it's a necessarily towny post (i would say the towniest posting you have is at the end of coalition phase) but it's certainly a post that is good at looking towny. i think you'd probably agree even if you are town that there is an element of performing for the sake of getting townread I. your posts, and whenever someone has that playstyle i find it hard to parse because i just see the performance and can't tell if its town performance or scum performance

I am performatove as town a lot

Quotes of people saying I am performatove as town (while being town themselves):

i feel like this is how DE70 plays it's always going to be a little calculated and verbose

Python's hammer is really fucking weird wtf.

Wait
This is not a hammer it's a meme
lol.

UNVOTE:
Temporarily because I don't want more "memes" happening.

This 3 together sounds "fabricated" in my mind. I can't put my finger on it why, though.

DE always sounds performative, it's not really alignment indicative for him

Yeah this

And then you keep talking about the question of whether I'm town performative or scum performative, but I don't see your thought process on this (except for 1285 I guess, which basically says there's a certain narrative where it could work as scum performative but I see no explanation of why you think that narrative is likelier than town performative).

Which reminds me of this article which explains why scum push things as "possible" while town look at what's *probable*.

[DragonEater70]

Thing is, even after 1285 you haven't really voted me and haven't really expressed a verdict on Klick. Like basically what I got from you is that there are a lot of reasons why Klick is scum but maybe he's town, andthen on the other hand there are reasons why I am town but then actually they are inside what you imagine to be my scumrange (maybe correctly, but probably not), so therefore I am scum? With DV?

It feels very incomplete.

yes i think you are scum and klick is town, you shouldn't need a vote to figure that out

I'm saying your thought process feels incomplete regardless of the vote or lack thereof.

i mean sure its incomplete if you keep ignoring parts of it

Which part

[DragonEater70]

Scum:
you still haven't really done what I asked you to do which is to make up your mind and have an actual read on the Dragon v Klick thing which FYPOV should contain one scum. It feels like you are trying to keep both options open.

how would keeping both options open be at all beneficial to me as scum in the current gamestate?

Because if you are scum then there is currently a town block of Klick/Dragon/DV, which has just gone through infighting and you'd like to be able to steer both me and Klick to vote the other, but you aren't really sure which one is the viable lim if any, so you are leaving both semi-viable.

Do you disagree that this is the case if you are scum?

yes i disagree, there's no reason to wait things out. that literally gains me nothing if im scum. if you were all town it would just give you time to find each other

if im scum who wants to not die today then one of you two or appearance has to be the elim and the way to make that happen is to push for it. sitting around waiting means i would have no strong position in the game and means people probably just default to pushing me

I am not saying you are waiting. I am saying you are simultaneously pushing me and leaving the possibility of pushing Klick open.

[fireisredsir]

mmm 164 is a pretty good post if dragon is scum

What does this even mean

it means that it felt well-placed as far as gaining towncred, and if you're scum then it was well-timed and well-written. i have seen you play scum (pretty well imo) but it still made me stop and consider whether it was something i should be considering out of your range

i don't think id say it's a necessarily towny post (i would say the towniest posting you have is at the end of coalition phase) but it's certainly a post that is good at looking towny. i think you'd probably agree even if you are town that there is an element of performing for the sake of getting townread I. your posts, and whenever someone has that playstyle i find it hard to parse because i just see the performance and can't tell if its town performance or scum performance

I am performatove as town a lot

Quotes of people saying I am performatove as town (while being town themselves):

i feel like this is how DE70 plays it's always going to be a little calculated and verbose

Python's hammer is really fucking weird wtf.

Wait
This is not a hammer it's a meme
lol.

UNVOTE:
Temporarily because I don't want more "memes" happening.

This 3 together sounds "fabricated" in my mind. I can't put my finger on it why, though.

DE always sounds performative, it's not really alignment indicative for him

Yeah this

And then you keep talking about the question of whether I'm town performative or scum performative, but I don't see your thought process on this (except for 1285 I guess, which basically says there's a certain narrative where it could work as scum performative but I see no explanation of why you think that narrative is likelier than town performative).

Which reminds me of this article which explains why scum push things as "possible" while town look at what's *probable*.

you keep taking my points and assigning them into boxes that strip them of any nuance and aren't really related to what i was saying anyway, and then disproving it based on the label that you yourself put on it

nothing about what i was saying recently really had anything to do with deciding whether you were "town performative" or "scum performative"

[fireisredsir]

if anyone else feels my thought process is unclear or incomplete please lmk and i can explain otherwise i don't really think this is worth it

[fireisredsir]

I am not saying you are waiting. I am saying you are simultaneously pushing me and leaving the possibility of pushing Klick open.

like i feel like this blatantly obviously does not describe my play at any point today

am i completely off base there does anyone besides dragon see things this way

[fireisredsir]

saying that my scumread is based on you "being too towny" is also like clearly bad faith

[DragonEater70]

@mod, V/LA through weekend

I'll try to read and reply to youfirewhen I have time tomorrow but IDKif I will actually have time tomorrow.

[fireisredsir]

Still kinda demotivated. Partially for RL reasons but mostly in game.

There's a world where 361 is dragon + one of DV/Klick as scum and Dragon sees an excuse to try to replace the double-scum coalition that's been building with a single-scum coalition. That would also mirror my play in the scum coalition game I mentioned. In that sense that when the game was going well, I went a bit out of my way to try to get the other scum off of the coalition (when that plan failed, I had to bus them on the first lim).

I think if that is the case, it's not really actionable now (aside from just keeping the original coalition Dragon suggested rather than switching). Or rather it's not like, something that's going to make me want to lim one of those people if the coalition fails, more of a "if the game gets to final 5 and dragon + either klick or DV are alive, remember to look back at this".

fmpov a lot of all the current speculation coming from like klick and dragon (especially klick) is kind of blasé because yeah, I agree with the analysis that if I'm town the coalition is likely to fail and beyond that there's not really much to say >_>. I don't think there are any politically feasible coalitions that are likely to succeed right now. That said I am waning on my specific feeling of Dragon being scum. While 361 makes a lot of sense in the specific case I mentioned, outside of that it's kind of a thing that I wouldn't expect scum to do in the gamestate, it's a bit of a rocking-the-boat action to remove those two from the coalition and I think Dragon is probably mostly happy to ride the wave of the gamestate if he's scum, modulo needing to possibly dodge a double scum coalition.

reading this again it might have actually just been right

[implosion]

Don't really have the energy to read all this posting from fire or in general in depth right now but i will try to at some point

imp and T3, I'm gonna need a favor of you:

How likely do you think the scumteam is to be Klick/DV?

Not likely.

[fireisredsir]

i don't want to spam the thread too much but i was rereading to see if i felt the solve made sense in the early game and i think it does

97 and 100 into 131 in particular feel pretty questionable. "trying hard to be townread" is basically dv's reason to suspect dragon, so the fact that dragon assigning that read to someone else is being treated as a mindmeld and reason to townread is kinda ?

in general i think their reads on each other are fairly awkward. there's more of that from the dragon direction and im not really sure how to feel about DV identifying and calling that out himself here

also when i came across 164 again i think especially it doesn't make sense from a town mindset coming right after 148 and it kinda feels to me like tmi that the townblock is not at all pure. i don't think town here would have this reaction given the way dragon has been treating klick in the game

[DeasVail]

fire, I need a world where Dragon is scum with someone other than me. I sometimes want to entertain the thought, but I'm not sure that he makes sense as scum with anyone else particularly so I'm left thinking that it's probably you that I should be voting for here.

[DeasVail]

I am not saying you are waiting. I am saying you are simultaneously pushing me and leaving the possibility of pushing Klick open.

like i feel like this blatantly obviously does not describe my play at any point today

am i completely off base there does anyone besides dragon see things this way

imo it's more that it's just a bad reason to suspect someone, in and of itself. One could say that I am leaving the possibility of pushing Dragon open. Should I not? It would seem irresponsible of me to not consider that he might be scum. This kind of reasoning does appear to me like coming up with reasons to suspect someone after already deciding that they're scum, but I do think this is a more common thing in town than one would initially think.

[DragonEater70]

saying that my scumread is based on you "being too towny" is also like clearly bad faith

Incorrect.

I know I am town. Therefore, I cannot be scum trying to look like town. If people TR me it's because I am towny, not because I am trying to look town.

We're in a universe where I was widely TR'd and virtually everyone except T3 was TRing me pre-coalition lock. Therefore, FMPOV, I am

objectively

towny. The fact that you are Scumreading me for my behavior which is objectively towny (as it gets me townread), means that FMPOV, you are OBJECTIVELY scumreading me for being too towny.

[fireisredsir]

well that's just very faulty logic