Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[ketchup777]

pre orders for the black or project wagons are offered, towncred for everyone who gets in

since not backing myself on day 1 did not go well, let's play was I right on my second vote? wagon edition

VOTE: ProjectRy

actually bedtime now

[ProjEctRy]

it kind of seems like you want to hurry up and kill me before i become a threat, black

Looking back this stands out to me.

oooooo, did i get the two of you to start bussing each other, just like that?

No you didnt. We have to be partners to buss each other.

well, i mean, one last thing before i go to bed, but that's some really strange wording i'm getting from you here, your concern isn't you being accused of being scum, or even me making a pretty outlandish accusation based on pretty much nothing (for now), it's the fact that i'm calling you two partners, in fact, what you're saying would still be if you were indeed scum

i think you hold guilt in your heart project, a townie would be more affirmative about their innocence

I didn’t need to be affirmative, because I never took your original comment to be overly serious.

[Black]

I vigged Happy.

Delta as the scum kill seems weird to me though.

scum is probably more newb than veterans then cause i think this kill comes from a lack of confidence they'd be able to spin delta as town after that

Or it comes from a veteran trying to find a way to frame all the newbs

who here is spicy enough to try and fuck with all the town by making such a nonsense kill

VOTE: Gypyx

Wrap it up bois and girls, we gottem

Think this only comes from scum

her refusal to interact with my death threats also reeks of

FEAR

and

TERROR

In case I wasn't clear I was suspecting you of wanting to frame all the noobs. It seems weird to assume all 3 scum are part of the inexperienced crowd based on DeltaWave dying. It feels like you think you can win as scum if you just misfade a bunch of new players and you're using your own NK as an excuse to be suspicious of them

[Black]

If Gypyx is scum then her whole plan here was to kill Delta, start the day saying she thinks the whole scum team is inexperienced because Delta died, and then push Project (inexperienced)

I think she got sidetracked by me calling her out on this and is now trying to discredit my read by calling me scum

[ketchup777]

actually final thing before bed let's have an ISO count (accurate for the first 928 posts):

me: 113
Black : 100
Luca: 99
Gypyx: 92 (replaced in, first post was #294)
Drew: 51
Psyche: 48
OutWorldEr: 47
Hu Tao: 33
Jacob : 33
Project: 31

obviously looking at Delta and iavh, low posting is not necessarily mafia. but just gonna put this out there for future reference. (I swear I'm not trying to make myself look good I am aware I post too much please focus on the data as a whole and contemplate)

[ProjEctRy]

actually final thing before bed let's have an ISO count (accurate for the first 928 posts):

me: 113
Black : 100
Luca: 99
Gypyx: 92 (replaced in, first post was #294)
Drew: 51
Psyche: 48
OutWorldEr: 47
Hu Tao: 33
Jacob : 33
Project: 31

obviously looking at Delta and iavh, low posting is not necessarily mafia. but just gonna put this out there for future reference. (I swear I'm not trying to make myself look good I am aware I post too much please focus on the data as a whole and contemplate)

I appreciate I’ve been accused of it myself, but for Gypyx being the 4th highest poster, a significant amount of her day-1 content was filler.

I think her day-1 stands in contrast to her day-2 opening. We’ve just lost three townies and it feels like she’s pushing hard to keep the momentum going. Although I’m conscious I could be mis-interpreting this because I’m on the end of it.

But I also don’t like her 583, walking away from the argument with Dann. Could read like she feels she’s overstepping and drawing too much attention so backs down.

VOTE: Gypyx

Going to place my vote here for now. I’ll pick back up tomorrow and review further.

[Black]

actually final thing before bed let's have an ISO count (accurate for the first 928 posts):

me: 113
Black : 100
Luca: 99
Gypyx: 92 (replaced in, first post was #294)
Drew: 51
Psyche: 48
OutWorldEr: 47
Hu Tao: 33
Jacob : 33
Project: 31

obviously looking at Delta and iavh, low posting is not necessarily mafia. but just gonna put this out there for future reference. (I swear I'm not trying to make myself look good I am aware I post too much please focus on the data as a whole and contemplate)

What is your read on Gypyx? And why do you think Project is scummy? It seems like you posted this to implicate him despite proving yourself wrong in the second half

[Luca Blight]

I just woke up. My first impression is that I still scumread OutWorld more than anyone, but I won't become tunnelled like D1 and I'm going to read through again carefully.

[OutWorldER]

I just woke up. My first impression is that I still scumread OutWorld more than anyone, but I won't become tunnelled like D1 and I'm going to read through again carefully.

I'm curious about this because the impression I got of your scumread on me from yesterday is that you were entirely working backwards from the basis of "dann is scum". What's making you scumread me still?

[Luca Blight]

I just woke up. My first impression is that I still scumread OutWorld more than anyone, but I won't become tunnelled like D1 and I'm going to read through again carefully.

I'm curious about this because the impression I got of your scumread on me from yesterday is that you were entirely working backwards from the basis of "dann is scum". What's making you scumread me still?

I still think the switch to Ketchup looked fake although obviously not for the same motivations, and in hindsight I think you would have pushed harder than you did to keep Dann alive if you were Town - it was kind of a half-hearted attempt, which I first read as scum reluctant to make their defence too obvious.

But as I said, I'll give you a fair chance and I don't want to become bogged down like I did on D1.

[Psyche]

i left d1 most inclined to blame hu tao who's black-and-white approach to sorting dann seemed kind of artificial in retrospect but in truth there were decent reasons to scumread dann around and after his drew vote

will give up on being selective about read disclosure and just dump every worthless thought that occurs in my head

[OutWorldER]

I just woke up. My first impression is that I still scumread OutWorld more than anyone, but I won't become tunnelled like D1 and I'm going to read through again carefully.

I'm curious about this because the impression I got of your scumread on me from yesterday is that you were entirely working backwards from the basis of "dann is scum". What's making you scumread me still?

I still think the switch to Ketchup looked fake although obviously not for the same motivations, and in hindsight

I think you would have pushed harder than you did to keep Dann alive if you were Town

- it was kind of a half-hearted attempt, which I first read as scum reluctant to make their defence too obvious.

But as I said, I'll give you a fair chance and I don't want to become bogged down like I did on D1.

i mean, yeah, but there's also only so much I can do to try and dissuade people from voting somebody or try to get them on a different wagon, and after a certain point it felt like nobody was actually listening to me

[Doctor Drew]

Is Drew being serious about his role? If so, what’s the rational for revealing now?

Putting him out of the potential scum pool and also revealing to us that the kill was Delta

Yes and I was only 1 shot anyways.

And didn't want any confusion about what was going on with eh NK's

[OutWorldER]

Is Drew being serious about his role? If so, what’s the rational for revealing now?

Putting him out of the potential scum pool and also revealing to us that the kill was Delta

Yes and I was only 1 shot anyways.

And didn't want any confusion about what was going on with eh NK's

why would you reveal this

[Doctor Drew]

Is Drew being serious about his role? If so, what’s the rational for revealing now?

Putting him out of the potential scum pool and also revealing to us that the kill was Delta

Yes and I was only 1 shot anyways.

And didn't want any confusion about what was going on with eh NK's

why would you reveal this

I already revealed that awhile ago, I would only claim after I can't use my ability anymore anyways.

I don't see the issue.

[OutWorldER]

better for town if scum don't know how many shots you have because it makes the night actions less predictable for them

i don't think it's a huge issue but idk, if I were in this scenario I'd only really claim vig and keep the amount of shots to myself.

[Hu Tao]

Gypyx - Hmm
ProjEctRy - Sus
Luca Blight - Towny
Jacob24 - back and forth with this one. Unsure
ketchup777 - towny
Psyche - ???
Black - don't want today at the very least
Doctor Drew - town
OutWorldER - could be sus. Need to read more

This is where I am for now

[Hu Tao]

it kind of seems like you want to hurry up and kill me before i become a threat, black

Looking back this stands out to me.

oooooo, did i get the two of you to start bussing each other, just like that?

No you didnt. We have to be partners to buss each other.

well, i mean, one last thing before i go to bed, but that's some really strange wording i'm getting from you here, your concern isn't you being accused of being scum, or even me making a pretty outlandish accusation based on pretty much nothing (for now), it's the fact that i'm calling you two partners, in fact, what you're saying would still be if you were indeed scum

i think you hold guilt in your heart project, a townie would be more affirmative about their innocence

This seems like a town post. Unsure why there are votes on her at the moment

[Hu Tao]

Maybe we should vote off the wagon. Because scum shot on the wagon which was weird, especially since it was someone not many tr. Might mean they are comfortable with us voting in it.

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: projecty

[Hu Tao]

actually final thing before bed let's have an ISO count (accurate for the first 928 posts):

me: 113
Black : 100
Luca: 99
Gypyx: 92 (replaced in, first post was #294)
Drew: 51
Psyche: 48
OutWorldEr: 47
Hu Tao: 33
Jacob : 33
Project: 31

obviously looking at Delta and iavh, low posting is not necessarily mafia. but just gonna put this out there for future reference. (I swear I'm not trying to make myself look good I am aware I post too much please focus on the data as a whole and contemplate)

I appreciate I’ve been accused of it myself, but for Gypyx being the 4th highest poster, a significant amount of her day-1 content was filler.

I think her day-1 stands in contrast to her day-2 opening. We’ve just lost three townies and it feels like she’s pushing hard to keep the momentum going. Although I’m conscious I could be mis-interpreting this because I’m on the end of it.

But I also don’t like her 583, walking away from the argument with Dann. Could read like she feels she’s overstepping and drawing too much attention so backs down.

VOTE: Gypyx

Going to place my vote here for now. I’ll pick back up tomorrow and review further.

I don't like this post at all. They seem to be going at Gypyx for a poor reason.

[Hu Tao]

Black what's your read on the delta kill?

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

I'm just gonna vomit forth my thoughts because I feel a bit sick whenever I look at this game anyway.

Hu Tao - lean town, I guess. Kind of a shitty town read because it's based on the idea that I think Hu Tao would be trying to play better / appear as if they were playing better as scum. Like, as it is, their D1 play consists of tunneling a town slot and not in a way that makes them optically look good like Luca Blight. I just think there might be more preparation and awareness on scum!HuTao's part about how they will look after I flip. I guess she could be scum but I don't really feel it.

Gypyx - also feel town? idk I think the way they immediately had a thought about Jacob on replacing in was towny. I think their kinda wibbly wobbly progression on me has been towny? I just town read their tone a lot I think.

ProjEctRy - I liked Psyche's read here. I think Projectry believes in his Ketchup push. I think the indignation about people's scum reads on him is towny. I think there is an empathy in his posts towards Ketchup that I wouldn't expect from a scum pushing a townie. I think 650 speaks to someone trying to sort the alignments of people pushing him.

Dannflor - a shining radiant beacon of towniness. pure of soul and pure of heart.

Luca Blight - I admit I have had doubts here. Especially when I spied that Luca Blight has last played mafia years ago and he is still projecting so much confidence on the bugspray read. but gun to head I still think this slot is town and I won't elaborate because that's fairly consensus. (btw it is fairly consensus because Luca Blight is useful to scum and they want to keep him going)

Jacob24 - I think Jacob's outrage in 283 rings true. I guess i found their outrage in the beginning about mindless reads to ring true. This is one of my weakest town reads tbh.

iamveryhappy - could be scum. I expect like an ounce of game advancing content from iavh at this point if they are town but i haven't seen that. they made one post about how im prob scum without really any context.

ketchup777 - I think he's just town. I understand the scum reads and I think the way ketchup phrases a lot of his posts is somewhat performative and surface level scummy. idk I don't think ketchup goes back and forth on my slot in the way that he did if he's scum. I think he fully commits to like hard defending me or not, not the sort of half-assed defense he did.

Psyche - similar read as above, but I think psyche picks a lane when it comes to my slot. They've gone from wanting to white knight to being possibly ambivalent. I think generally there is a depth of thought here that comes from town. I think they've gone against the grain but not in a way that really makes them optically look good.

DeltaWave - i think this is scum. I think the fact that Delta realized ketchup was a newbie in 505 but didn't unvote until 664 is emblematic of someone who isn't really fluidly thinking about the game. I think the line to ketchup about "needing to quit this line of argument" is reminiscent of scum only finding validity in arguments that are "factually correct," it's not really interested in ketchup's alignment.

To be honest, I think DeltaWave reading 228 straight and calling it "so, so, so bad" is a scum tell. I think scum are more likely to take non-serious posts seriously for the most part and again, the defense of Drew seems more based in "this argument is factually inconsistent" not "this argument is scum motivated." I also think the town read on Luca is exactly the position scum would be taking up right now. There's too many scum reads and not in a towny way.

Black - gun to head town. Unfortunately, I don't have as much confidence on this read (or many of my reads) as I am used to. I blame the position I've been forced into in this game. Overall, I think the way Black has treated my slot leans town. I think her shift from wanting to resolve my slot to giving me some time was natural. I think she believes in her push on Projectry. again, I've historically managed to get very confident reads on black but wasn't in a position to do that this game. still would say town if I had to choose.

Doctor Drew - still kinda think this is scum. I think DeltaWave is scummier at the moment but Drew is a good pick for partner and I still don't really have anything to town read from Drew's slot. Drew continually shading ketchup as I get run up is not really a good look, I feel like he's setting up for me to claim PR or something and wants a backup option. there hasn't really been an evaluation of who might be scum pending my scum flip, which drew seems to feel pretty strongly about. Luca meanwhile is trying different solves based on my flip, but Drew seems content just to OMGUS and leave it at that. maybe my expectations are too high but I expect more from town!drew here.

OutWorldER - never kill this, probably my most confident town read. i think there is a night and day difference between OWER's scum and town game and i think this is his town game. i think he really believes in his ketchup push. etc, etc,

*****

so like, if I run with all my reads then my solve ends up being Delta Wave/Doctor Drew/iamveryhappy

That's not really the most satisfying solve to me. It feels like 3 kinda LHF, but that's honestly where I'm at and I don't think I'm gonna really be able to evolve beyond that given my position here.

Currently, I feel strongest about Delta Wave as far as scum reads go.

I feel strongest about OWER as far as town reads go. If I were to ask that any of my reads are to be sheeped, those are the two I would ask to be sheeped if I die.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but this was actually a really Townie post, but unfortunately I was asleep at the time and the hammer happened before I had the chance to wake. I like to think I might have at least had pause for thought based on this, but unfortunately we'll never know.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

ahh dang it

704 is very good, but I took another look at Bugs' posts though, and decided that 158 and 165 do read more like a mafia player. As town's purpose is to have fun finding the mafia players, I don't think town!bugspray would've not tried at all.

I saw a couple other people using the exclamation mark notation forgive me if it means something I'm not aware of (:

here goes

a lot riding on this

I'm sorry because I can tell 704 must have taken a while and it feels like a waste killing you. But I'm going to commit. Someone said you had a case for the #1 player and so I can imagine you'd be capable of a long defence regardless of alignment. You said you read this game beforehand so you knew it would be an uphill battle and you were prepared for that. Did Obi-Wan not teach you that having the high ground is important? Or will this be a battle of hastings situation where you pull some awesome move and then backstab us? Who knows? One of OutWorldEr, Black, iavh, Project, Psyche or Gypyx.

grabs popcorn

VOTE: Dannflor

I don't like the timing of this vote. Ketchup townreads Dann's slot all game based on tenuous reasoning, and then puts Dann to E-1 despite the fact that Dann just made a really townie post, that even Ketchup agrees is a good post.

I have to do some work now so will return to this later.

[Doctor Drew]

Spoiler:

I'm just gonna vomit forth my thoughts because I feel a bit sick whenever I look at this game anyway.

Hu Tao - lean town, I guess. Kind of a shitty town read because it's based on the idea that I think Hu Tao would be trying to play better / appear as if they were playing better as scum. Like, as it is, their D1 play consists of tunneling a town slot and not in a way that makes them optically look good like Luca Blight. I just think there might be more preparation and awareness on scum!HuTao's part about how they will look after I flip. I guess she could be scum but I don't really feel it.

Gypyx - also feel town? idk I think the way they immediately had a thought about Jacob on replacing in was towny. I think their kinda wibbly wobbly progression on me has been towny? I just town read their tone a lot I think.

ProjEctRy - I liked Psyche's read here. I think Projectry believes in his Ketchup push. I think the indignation about people's scum reads on him is towny. I think there is an empathy in his posts towards Ketchup that I wouldn't expect from a scum pushing a townie. I think 650 speaks to someone trying to sort the alignments of people pushing him.

Dannflor - a shining radiant beacon of towniness. pure of soul and pure of heart.

Luca Blight - I admit I have had doubts here. Especially when I spied that Luca Blight has last played mafia years ago and he is still projecting so much confidence on the bugspray read. but gun to head I still think this slot is town and I won't elaborate because that's fairly consensus. (btw it is fairly consensus because Luca Blight is useful to scum and they want to keep him going)

Jacob24 - I think Jacob's outrage in 283 rings true. I guess i found their outrage in the beginning about mindless reads to ring true. This is one of my weakest town reads tbh.

iamveryhappy - could be scum. I expect like an ounce of game advancing content from iavh at this point if they are town but i haven't seen that. they made one post about how im prob scum without really any context.

ketchup777 - I think he's just town. I understand the scum reads and I think the way ketchup phrases a lot of his posts is somewhat performative and surface level scummy. idk I don't think ketchup goes back and forth on my slot in the way that he did if he's scum. I think he fully commits to like hard defending me or not, not the sort of half-assed defense he did.

Psyche - similar read as above, but I think psyche picks a lane when it comes to my slot. They've gone from wanting to white knight to being possibly ambivalent. I think generally there is a depth of thought here that comes from town. I think they've gone against the grain but not in a way that really makes them optically look good.

DeltaWave - i think this is scum. I think the fact that Delta realized ketchup was a newbie in 505 but didn't unvote until 664 is emblematic of someone who isn't really fluidly thinking about the game. I think the line to ketchup about "needing to quit this line of argument" is reminiscent of scum only finding validity in arguments that are "factually correct," it's not really interested in ketchup's alignment.

To be honest, I think DeltaWave reading 228 straight and calling it "so, so, so bad" is a scum tell. I think scum are more likely to take non-serious posts seriously for the most part and again, the defense of Drew seems more based in "this argument is factually inconsistent" not "this argument is scum motivated." I also think the town read on Luca is exactly the position scum would be taking up right now. There's too many scum reads and not in a towny way.

Black - gun to head town. Unfortunately, I don't have as much confidence on this read (or many of my reads) as I am used to. I blame the position I've been forced into in this game. Overall, I think the way Black has treated my slot leans town. I think her shift from wanting to resolve my slot to giving me some time was natural. I think she believes in her push on Projectry. again, I've historically managed to get very confident reads on black but wasn't in a position to do that this game. still would say town if I had to choose.

Doctor Drew - still kinda think this is scum. I think DeltaWave is scummier at the moment but Drew is a good pick for partner and I still don't really have anything to town read from Drew's slot. Drew continually shading ketchup as I get run up is not really a good look, I feel like he's setting up for me to claim PR or something and wants a backup option. there hasn't really been an evaluation of who might be scum pending my scum flip, which drew seems to feel pretty strongly about. Luca meanwhile is trying different solves based on my flip, but Drew seems content just to OMGUS and leave it at that. maybe my expectations are too high but I expect more from town!drew here.

OutWorldER - never kill this, probably my most confident town read. i think there is a night and day difference between OWER's scum and town game and i think this is his town game. i think he really believes in his ketchup push. etc, etc,

*****

so like, if I run with all my reads then my solve ends up being Delta Wave/Doctor Drew/iamveryhappy

That's not really the most satisfying solve to me. It feels like 3 kinda LHF, but that's honestly where I'm at and I don't think I'm gonna really be able to evolve beyond that given my position here.

Currently, I feel strongest about Delta Wave as far as scum reads go.

I feel strongest about OWER as far as town reads go. If I were to ask that any of my reads are to be sheeped, those are the two I would ask to be sheeped if I die.

I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but this was actually a really Townie post, but unfortunately I was asleep at the time and the hammer happened before I had the chance to wake. I like to think I might have at least had pause for thought based on this, but unfortunately we'll never know.

Yet you said you never would vote anywhere but Bug/Dann