Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Gypyx]

1.3

outoforder (3) :

Naerys / Vivax / SuperflousNinja

Vivax (1) :

gob

Luca Blight (1) :

outoforder

gob (1)

oatsmaster

Roden (1) :

Luca Blight

Oatsmaster (1) :

Roden

Not Voting (6):

Hu Tao / MalcolmTucker / Luca Blight / Dunnstral / Dannflor / DarthPunk

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

MalcolmTucker has (expired on 2024-02-04 04:47:47) to confirm their role PM before i start a replacement search for their slot

Flavor

Spoiler:

So, let's start by the beginning, Liam Vickers, no hate against him obviously but he's pretty much the main driving force behind it so we'll have to discuss him sooner or later, while yes he has done animation before, two things stand out 1. He has always stuck to 2d stuff 2. His longest project : internection cube was not even a third of the length of murder drones, and so, you might already see where this is going !

[Gypyx]

whooops

[Roden]

Defensive: 234, 248 (btw, I think Oats' comment in 237 was fair and reflected my own thoughts at the time, hence my vote)

Aggressive/Potential Power-wolfing: 263, 264, 268, 274

Yes, you later walked this back by saying you weren't being entirely serious, but that in itself I find somewhat suspect.

234 is a question asking to support the statement made

248 is pointing out a discrepancy

263 and 268 is a jab for a jab

264 is looking at associations

276 was made in jest

Anything else?

[Luca Blight]

Was 276 the only post made in jest? I can't tell what opinions of yours are supposed to be taken seriously and which aren't.

[Luca Blight]

It's more just the energy behind the posts that came across as being defensive and/or aggressive to me.

Anyway, i look forward to hearing your general thoughts on the game.

[Vivax]

On a reread:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

I'm curious now about the verse you mentioned.

to be specific i would like you to to spell out why you think that vote is terrible

How is it not?

Specifically, what is good about it and why did you make it?

I thought it was a little bit weird that outoforder took my original post about them seriously. I also found the "Im not too sure of anything yet" to be overly noncommittal

but I wanted to see what people would assume of my vote if I left out the explanation

I think DP calling the vote terrible was because at the time it didn't look like Dann had any reason to place it at all from a townie point of view. He came into the thread voting for me, DP interceded, they both said they went into this game specifically to play with player X/Y (being me/OOO). This explanation misses the mark.

The only possible one could be #58 which preceded the vote from Dann.

That already moves Dann into mafia territory.

If Random voting is some part of the metagame here then that is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.

Im thinking its dannfloor VOTE: dannfloor

this guy is probably mafia #2

If you look at Gob in thread context, he's mostly around placing votes seemingly at random. He'd be an irk to mafia who are trying hard to appear normal. The vote on Dannflor makes OOO scumread him, but the poor contrived explanation for the vote on me makes OOO townread him. Doesn't make sense to me.

I think those can already be two mafia with Oats as the third (feel sorry for him if he is to find his teammates in this state).
So

Dann/OOO/Oats

would be my picks for today.

[SuperfluousNinja]

If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.

What lack of activity?

Does anyone find it interesting that Roden reacted like this to my post, and THEN came the aggressive showdown with Oats? Because I certainly do.

I'm totally on board with Lucas's sentiments that the whole Roden vs. Oats thing seems overblown. However when Oats got personal, it made me realize they're probably just being a jerk, and I've learned that being a jerk actually kinda tends to be a town tell. Scum wouldn't take it personally to be viewed as suspicious since they clearly are guilty, but town views it as an attack on their mafia skill to be innocent but viewed as guilty, and they have the confidence of knowing their own innocence, so from those two things I can see where the "being a jerk" thing comes about. Which is all a long winded way of saying I don't really view oats as scummy here.

Roden's reaction is a bit different and again seems possibly driven by what I said. Could just be overconfident town, but to talk directly to Roden here, please realize what you're doing here isn't helpful, your case is very flimsy, and now you're having to play defense. If you're actually town, it would behoove you to find a way to put this behind us, and continuing what seems like a bad case against oats probably won't get us there.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.

How much mafia have you played? This logic tends to be wrong.

It's not "logic", it's statistics. Never argue statistics with a statistician.

I've played enough games to know it's about as good a tell as any measurable metric that exists in this game.

[SuperfluousNinja]

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?

For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.

[Vivax]

I found Roden very townie so far.
Laid back much even.

Out of the trio, OutofOrder has the highest odds of just being a scummy townie in my opinion. Mafia playing openly like mafia is good play though so I don't want to freepass that.

Dunnstral and Naerys are those I can't get a read on. They have their pokerface on, Naerys has opinions at least. Just not very verbose about them, so it's hard to tell if there's genuine thought behind them.

Gob is just chaos but he doesn't seem like he has an agenda. Can't tell if he's even serious about what he writes.

[Vivax]

And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?

Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?

For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.

We can vote him for it. In his defense though, that's how he's learned to play.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Defensive: 234, 248 (btw, I think Oats' comment in 237 was fair and reflected my own thoughts at the time, hence my vote)

Aggressive/Potential Power-wolfing: 263, 264, 268, 274

Yes, you later walked this back by saying you weren't being entirely serious, but that in itself I find somewhat suspect.

234 is a question asking to support the statement made

248 is pointing out a discrepancy

263 and 268 is a jab for a jab

264 is looking at associations

276 was made in jest

Anything else?

This post feels WAY too dismissive.

I really appreciate Luca having done all of this. I'm never "this person is 100% town, full stop" but Luca is about as town as it gets in my book. I don't see how you could view Luca's contributions as anything but very helpful to town here. For what it's worth.

But I digress... The point of what Luca brought up was the tone of these posts, and Roden dismissed them by discussing the content. We are aware, for example, that post 234 is a question, made obvious by the use of the question mark and such; what was of note was the clear defensiveness of it, which you made no effort to explain there. "It's just a question bro" vibes. Like, we all know what nuance is, we picked up on it, we want an explanation for it.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I found Roden very townie so far.
Laid back much even.

Are there any specific reasons you think this? I ask because I disagree completely right now. At the very least, being largely silent for the majority of this game is by no means "very townie".

Out of the trio, OutofOrder has the highest odds of just being a scummy townie in my opinion. Mafia playing openly like mafia is good play though so I don't want to freepass that.

What do you mean by "is good play"? Good for who?

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.

Sus post. Looks like you're just going after low hanging fruit. The games been open for like a day? Give it time

I hate to toot my own horn, but I feel like if there's anyone in this game that you could accuse of "just going after low hanging fruit", it certainly isn't me.

I am immediately sus of anyone who is pushing back on what I said (the main reason I said it was to see who would do so / how people would react). There's little to no incentive for townies to discourage people from using what is historically a pretty decent scum tell. But there's PLENTY of scummy reason for scum, who often struggle to find useful things to say, to push back against anyone sending out a reminder that a lack of meaningful contribution is significant.

[Vivax]

Mafia openly acting scummy is good play.
Primarily cause the main expectation is for them to be in survival mode. That's why logic is only moderately useful. Most of the time you'll wonder why someone playing like that is trying to get himself killed. It's not even wifom cause it's their survival on the line.

In this instance I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.

Maybe for gob as a whole he can be town but not for that post he looked at in isolation. I mean, why should he have been supposed to know gob wasn't right on me for the wrong reasons? Calling the post terrible and saying that makes him likely not mafia without knowing my alignment is just too much confidence if he doesn't know two alignments. Especially if he's townreading me, shouldn't mafia be pushing townies ?

[Dunnstral]

I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.

Sus post. Looks like you're just going after low hanging fruit. The games been open for like a day? Give it time

I hate to toot my own horn, but I feel like if there's anyone in this game that you could accuse of "just going after low hanging fruit", it certainly isn't me.

I am immediately sus of anyone who is pushing back on what I said (the main reason I said it was to see who would do so / how people would react). There's little to no incentive for townies to discourage people from using what is historically a pretty decent scum tell. But there's PLENTY of scummy reason for scum, who often struggle to find useful things to say, to push back against anyone sending out a reminder that a lack of meaningful contribution is significant.

Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?

[gob]

its over

[gob]

alright im gonna figure this all out

[SuperfluousNinja]

Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?

Sure, let's look at the most recent Mini Normal game that resolved: viewtopic.php?t=92058

Scum team was HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, and Purplemango.

The game had 4147 total posts and lasted for 5 days. With 13 total players, the average contribution of a player is then 4147 / 13 = 319, as your point of reference.

Total number of posts from the scum team:

HighPrincessErinys: 162 (died at end of day 3, so 2 days where no activity would be expected)
Hu Tao: 459 (alive all 5 days)
Purplemango: 103 (alive all 5 days)

Even if we extrapolate HighPrincess's post count for a full 5 days of survival, that would only put them at about 250, still less than the average contribution of 319 posts. Purplemango is clearly well below average at 103. Hu Tao is slightly above average, which I concede, but not above the average by much. Hu Tao was alive for all 5 days, which the majority of players were not, and only managed to come in just above the average.

You can compare that to other very active townies like Flavor Leaf who posted 1130 times and Dragon eater who posted 722 times. When you're a townie, you can post a lot more frequently with much more confidence.

It is not an entirely infallible method. But it is certainly a pretty decent one.

[gob]

We need to lim between Naerys / Vivax / SuperflousNinja

OutofOrder's tone has been consistent since the begining of the game. He also did progress the first page on his own pretty much.

SuperflousNinja's posts are really long and kinda void of anything worthwhile (in my opinion). So I am thinking she could also be mafia. Naerys not really sure on.

[Vivax]

We need to lim between Naerys / Vivax / SuperflousNinja

OutofOrder's tone has been consistent since the begining of the game. He also did progress the first page on his own pretty much.

SuperflousNinja's posts are really long and kinda void of anything worthwhile (in my opinion). So I am thinking she could also be mafia. Naerys not really sure on.

Luca repeatedly pointed out that OoO switched up his tone to a more aggressive demeanor, he also pointed it out for Roden.

So the tone consistency thing is something you are disagreeing on diametrally.

What does that make your read on Luca ?

[gob]

We need to lim between Naerys / Vivax / SuperflousNinja

OutofOrder's tone has been consistent since the begining of the game. He also did progress the first page on his own pretty much.

SuperflousNinja's posts are really long and kinda void of anything worthwhile (in my opinion). So I am thinking she could also be mafia. Naerys not really sure on.

Luca repeatedly pointed out that OoO switched up his tone to a more aggressive demeanor, he also pointed it out for Roden.

So the tone consistency thing is something you are disagreeing on diametrally.

What does that make your read on Luca ?

wtf does this have to do with luca??

Anyway idk what you mean disagree diametrally or whatever.

[gob]

Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.

everyone get on vivax

[Vivax]

Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.

everyone get on vivax

Honestly you remind me of one of those peasants from Monty Python.

Luca said OOO hasn‘t been consistent, you say he has. That‘s the point. Your opinions differ, that should bother you, because it bothers me if it doesn‘t.

[SuperfluousNinja]

SuperflousNinja's posts are really long and kinda void of anything worthwhile (in my opinion).

Wow. Well that's insulting...