Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Oatsmaster]

This isn't specific to this game in particular, but man I'll never understand why town will intentionally choose to play against wincon and decide to be uncooperative with town

Actual scum claim

[SuperfluousNinja]

There is intent in RVS stage. The mafia commonly vote their partner in RVS stage to "distance."

It is a bad play, mind you. But people do it often.

Although i do admit i was posting for the sake of posting.

Emphasis mine. I just wanted to highlight this one too as what I think is clearly non-townie behavior.

[SuperfluousNinja]

In what world am I playing defense here? I have one vote.

This actually answers the question I was asking Oats earlier. His play felt super similar to Punk's, who comes from a different site, so it made me think he probably came from there as well. In that case, it would explain the instant aggression and over-the-top criticism towards the town and site culture. Oats refusing to answer that question though made me think he knew I just detected his scum tell, but that he wasn't from the same site as Punk and couldn't lie and say he was, and so refusing to answer was his only way to shrug off pressure as scum.

It turns out no, he's just unhelpful and abrasive for literally no reason besides being taught bad habits.

UNVOTE:

In one post, you say "in what world am I playing defense?", and in the next, you cancel your vote after getting some heat for pushing a bad case. I think that could correctly be classified as "playing defense".

[gob]

On Mafiascum we generally keep our posts 1-5 sentences.

Here's that post for reference. I'm obviously making you nervous.

LOL I havent even read any of your long posts.

[gob]

There is intent in RVS stage. The mafia commonly vote their partner in RVS stage to "distance."

It is a bad play, mind you. But people do it often.

Although i do admit i was posting for the sake of posting.

Emphasis mine. I just wanted to highlight this one too as what I think is clearly non-townie behavior.

What is wrong with that? I was posting to generate new content.

[SuperfluousNinja]

On Mafiascum we generally keep our posts 1-5 sentences.

Here's that post for reference. I'm obviously making you nervous.

LOL I havent even read any of your long posts.

So you're admitting to not even participating in this game.

If you are willfully ignoring anything I have to say, then why did you take issue with my vote, considering you made no effort whatsoever to understand it?

[Roden]

In what world am I playing defense here? I have one vote.

This actually answers the question I was asking Oats earlier. His play felt super similar to Punk's, who comes from a different site, so it made me think he probably came from there as well. In that case, it would explain the instant aggression and over-the-top criticism towards the town and site culture. Oats refusing to answer that question though made me think he knew I just detected his scum tell, but that he wasn't from the same site as Punk and couldn't lie and say he was, and so refusing to answer was his only way to shrug off pressure as scum.

It turns out no, he's just unhelpful and abrasive for literally no reason besides being taught bad habits.

UNVOTE:

In one post, you say "in what world am I playing defense?", and in the next, you cancel your vote after getting some heat for pushing a bad case. I think that could correctly be classified as "playing defense".

...Did you not read the post you quoted?

[SuperfluousNinja]

...Did you not read the post you quoted?

Of course I did. I'm pointing out how it can be classified as "playing defense".

[Roden]

...Did you not read the post you quoted?

Of course I did. I'm pointing out how it can be classified as "playing defense".

Explain?

[SuperfluousNinja]

People were giving you heat for pushing oatsmaster, or at the very least, people thought that the push was misguided.

Since you are the one who pushed this in the first place, and since nobody else really seems on board with it, you had to take some steps to correct this. You could have chosen to stick to your guns, but instead you wrote a single paragraph where you came to reason after being rather heated in your case against oatsmaster that lasted for pages. Regardless, you backed off, possibly because it would be silly to push a bad case if you knew it was bad, possibly because you really did come to realize it was a bad case. Either way, you backed off.

Note that I am saying that this COULD BE classified as playing defense. I'm not saying it IS classified. But I am saying it's a possible interpretation of your actions. That's all.

My personal opinion is that it doesn't seem entirely sincere and seems a little fabricated and convenient. That's just my take.

[Roden]

People were giving you heat for pushing oatsmaster, or at the very least, people thought that the push was misguided.

Since you are the one who pushed this in the first place, and since nobody else really seems on board with it, you had to take some steps to correct this. You could have chosen to stick to your guns, but instead you wrote a single paragraph where you came to reason after being rather heated in your case against oatsmaster that lasted for pages. Regardless, you backed off, possibly because it would be silly to push a bad case if you knew it was bad, possibly because you really did come to realize it was a bad case. Either way, you backed off.

Note that I am saying that this COULD BE classified as playing defense. I'm not saying it IS classified. But I am saying it's a possible interpretation of your actions. That's all.

My personal opinion is that it doesn't seem entirely sincere and seems a little fabricated and convenient. That's just my take.

Nowhere in my post do I back off or say my case was incorrect. I said I learned the information I was seeking earlier and adjusted my read accordingly.

[Oatsmaster]

People were giving you heat for pushing oatsmaster, or at the very least, people thought that the push was misguided.

Since you are the one who pushed this in the first place, and since nobody else really seems on board with it, you had to take some steps to correct this. You could have chosen to stick to your guns, but instead you wrote a single paragraph where you came to reason after being rather heated in your case against oatsmaster that lasted for pages. Regardless, you backed off, possibly because it would be silly to push a bad case if you knew it was bad, possibly because you really did come to realize it was a bad case. Either way, you backed off.

Note that I am saying that this COULD BE classified as playing defense. I'm not saying it IS classified. But I am saying it's a possible interpretation of your actions. That's all.

My personal opinion is that it doesn't seem entirely sincere and seems a little fabricated and convenient. That's just my take.

Nowhere in my post do I back off or say my case was incorrect. I said I learned the information I was seeking earlier and adjusted my read accordingly.

your case was based on inaccurate information (taking what you are saying at face value)
therefore it was incorrect and you unvoted. Im not sure why you are so defensive over a correct assessment of your actions towards me.

[Oatsmaster]

Like what is going on here?
I also am not really wanting to believe that a town person constantly refers to "the town" in 3rd person because thats just silly.

[Vivax]

Dunnstral‘s scum meter is increasing proportionally to him not playing the game.

I don‘t care if he looks old and has cat ears.

[Oatsmaster]

I would also like people to explain why they are voting for OoO

[Vivax]

I would also like people to explain why they are voting for OoO

You don‘t find it funny that DP thought he was rayn ?

It‘s like every account on the internet that claims to be from Finland is actually rayn.

Dude must be like Schroedingers kitty

[Oatsmaster]

I would also like people to explain why they are voting for OoO

You don‘t find it funny that DP thought he was rayn ?

It‘s like every account on the internet that claims to be from Finland is actually rayn.

Dude must be like Schroedingers kitty

I mean every account on the internet that Ive met is rayn so I was unsurprised by DPs question.
Is OoO not rayn though? he said he was unless I misread

[DarthPunk]

im back catching up.

[DarthPunk]

I would also like people to explain why they are voting for OoO

You don‘t find it funny that DP thought he was rayn ?

It‘s like every account on the internet that claims to be from Finland is actually rayn.

Dude must be like Schroedingers kitty

i checked his post history after he said he was from finland and saw him talking about some TL people in a previous game, and assumed that it was rayn after that.

[DarthPunk]

Vivax why do you think it is a good idea to lynch rayn day one?

[SuperfluousNinja]

May I introduce to you Post 177? lol

Hmm okay, in that post, you said
1) Luca is not mafia because you agreed with him, and you backed it up with what

someone else (Dann) did...

I've read this one about 5 times and I just can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to tell me, sorry. Again, I asked YOU to explain YOUR actions. You seem to be inserting some read on my own actions here that I cannot make sense of. Can you start over with this one? I just want to know why you think Luca is mafia. That's all.

2) I think Dann is town because he would most likely not be so blatantly tying himself up with a townie here. It might cause him problems, as i see it.

That is, of course, dependent on the other person actually BEING town. Is there not a great deal of confirmation bias going on with your reads?

3) I dont really think gob is mafia, so...

Is there any particular reason why you won't tell us why?

Like what do I need to do here to get you to actually explain your actions? Do you need me to vote for you to put the pressure on? Because I think I've reached that point.

VOTE: OutOfOrder

Oats - this explains my vote

[Luca Blight]

I think Roden’s indignation/annoyance / wanting to fuck with oatsmaster leans townie

I’m not sure scum gets so bogged down in trying to be annoying when the opportunity to be the “sane” one and try to win the argument is right there

You're playing a little too '

nicely'

this game for my liking.

Do you have any scumreads?

[Dunnstral]

Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?

Sure, let's look at the most recent Mini Normal game that resolved: viewtopic.php?t=92058

Scum team was HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, and Purplemango.

The game had 4147 total posts and lasted for 5 days. With 13 total players, the average contribution of a player is then 4147 / 13 = 319, as your point of reference.

Total number of posts from the scum team:

HighPrincessErinys: 162 (died at end of day 3, so 2 days where no activity would be expected)
Hu Tao: 459 (alive all 5 days)
Purplemango: 103 (alive all 5 days)

Even if we extrapolate HighPrincess's post count for a full 5 days of survival, that would only put them at about 250, still less than the average contribution of 319 posts. Purplemango is clearly well below average at 103. Hu Tao is slightly above average, which I concede, but not above the average by much. Hu Tao was alive for all 5 days, which the majority of players were not, and only managed to come in just above the average.

You can compare that to other very active townies like Flavor Leaf who posted 1130 times and Dragon eater who posted 722 times. When you're a townie, you can post a lot more frequently with much more confidence.

It is not an entirely infallible method. But it is certainly a pretty decent one.

There are so many things wrong with this. First of all you're taking averages in that game and comparing the mafia to be above or below average posting rate. In this game, you've simply said the three lowest posters are mafia. In reality only Purplemango is in the lowest 3 in the game you've linked. You're also using a game where 2 town players have way more posts than normal which are two outliers that is throwing everything out of whack. Finally you've presented a sample size of one which isn't enough to say that this is a trend that occurs over multiple games.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral‘s scum meter is increasing proportionally to him not playing the game.

I don‘t care if he looks old and has cat ears.

Every time you post something like this it is when I am asleep.

[Dannflor]

I think Superfluousninja is scum.

Generally, I think her posting revolves far more around "winning" interactions and signposting her intentions in an attempt to look town and than it is based around actually detecting people's alignments.

In 120, Ninja responds to Vivax's theory that she might be scum with this:

Yeah. THIS is just nonsense. Why would an alleged scum version of myself want to make such clear lines in the sand when day 1 was, for me at least, less than an hour old? Like I know yall were talking while I was getting my beauty sleep, but the idea that I was actually trying to choose sides this early is just not logical.

The LAST thing any scum ever wants to do, like ever, and much less at the very very beginning of the game, is have any clear allegiance with anyone. So this theory of yours seems like poor theorycrafting IMO.

this response, especially the last line feels a lot more like a scum response to a perceived "inaccurate" accusation than a town response. the whole response is based around dissecting Vivax's logic and basically calling it bad, ergo Ninja cannot be scum. the primary motivation here is for Ninja to show that she cannot be scum based on Vivax's obviously faulty logic.

but I'm not sure why a town!Ninja isn't more suspicious of Vivax or trying to interrogate Vivax more on his thought process to try and determine his alignment. I would think a town!Ninja's primary motivation here would be to try and detect which alignment Vivax is coming from. Instead, the last line of this post seems to assume that Vivax is town, by calling his attack poor thinking, instead of considering that it might be fake.

Her followup in 129 is again focused on Vivax not being "fair" and his summation of her gameplay so far being inaccurate. again, very focused on the inaccuracies and her presentation of herself.

132 feels weird to me because she is immediately trying to undermine my strongest (and only at the time) town read. The tone of this post doesn't appear to indicate that Ninja actually thinks I'm suspicious for town reading DP, but rather it seems more geared towards trying to convince me to scum read him

Later, with Ninja's push on OutofOrder, I still don't really believe Ninja is trying to sort between who is scum and who isn't.

Like what do I need to do here to get you to actually explain your actions? Do you need me to vote for you to put the pressure on? Because I think I've reached that point.

In fact, Ninja's whole thing behind this vote is that it is very explicitly a pressure vote to get Out of Order to explain himself. She calls the behavior of outoforder "headscratching" but again I don't really get the vibe that Ninja thinks outoforder is scum.

I'm leaving my vote on OutOfOrder for now because I want to see my actions through on that one, but I'm fully in favor of a vote against Gob after all this.

I feel like this, again, betrays that the vote on OutOfOrder is very much just like... an optics thing that she feels too self-conscious to move before like getting some arbitrary amount of engagement from OoO. It's also such a weird signpost that I think most often comes from scum who are planning their trajectory throughout the day, rather than a townie who is reacting to things naturally and doesn't necessarily know where their suspicions or vote might lead them next.

Like, it is not at all clear to me why Ninja thinks that once OutOfOrder responds that she is going to stop suspecting him and be good to move onto gob. Instead, it sounds like she's already decided to stop suspecting OutOfOrder once he responds and Ninja can move onto pushing gob which is what she really wants to do. Like she "wants to see her actions through" which means what exactly?

Furthermore, I feel like Ninja's interactions with gob have been very... "ahah! I've got you!"-coded

like gob seems disengaged thus far and clearly enjoys kinda being annoying towards Ninja. I don't think either of these features are super alignment indicative but Ninja's whole post 348 is about how gob's disengagement and "weirdness" must be from scum. and idk it just doesn't read genuine to me.

some of this read stems from me town reading all of roden/gob/outoforder and I think gob in particular is a pretty juicy target to push as scum because a lot of his logic looks surface level scummy and I don't think he particularly cares about being town read as town, so Ninja launching into a huge case about why gob is scum (while keeping a contrived vote on outoforder) looks bad to me

also i think the way she's played around the whole Roden vs. oats master thing has been kinda one dimensional. Like she basically went into that and immediately decided it was an SvT and oatsmaster was town and Roden was pretty sus. although it doesn't appear Ninja is interested in actually pushing that and would like the conflict to keep going? which is kind of conf biasing me into thinking Roden vs. oatsmaster is town vs. town.

but I'm contrasting this with Luca's read on the situation, which, while similar, has greater nuance. Luca is still questioning oatsmaster and I don't think is necessarily trying to encourage the conflict to continue