Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Oatsmaster]

Basically my case on GOB is that he openly stated he was posting for the sake of posting.

That is mafia 101 scummy. What can I say? I am a simple man, I see a scum claim, I vote.

I don't think this is scummy

town post for the sake of posting probably more often than scum

This is just not true

[outoforder]

First of all i am a player that doesnt explain myself fully when i feel like there is no need to do that. I assume people can read between the lines well enough (since this is a mafia game) to find the intentions behind the posting, or at least make interpretations of them, right or wrong (but you can still figure out if they are genuine or not.

Now for Dann's comment on me. My interpretation of the situation is, that i don't think Dann would make that (tieing up to me) as mafia. I am not saying that's something mafia wouldnt do, because it is. I am saying Dann wouldnt do that to me (while yes, i fully understand it was ironic post). That's because Dann doesn't know me, and Dann doesn't know how i will react to that post. Who is to say i wont see that as trying to pocket me (that wouldnt be unreasonable), and while he can still claim it's a joke post that doesnt matter as he has already taken some unnecessary heat on him, just look at what happened.

For this whole thing that went on, i found Luca scummy. Why do i say that? It's because of this. Here's what Dann said about his vote and unvote after discussing with DP:

my vote was not because they "called me out for creating an association" (what exactly would be the benefit of me doing that anyway?)

I wanted to see what people would assume of my vote if I left out the explanation

it might simply be a case of me not making my parody clear enough, outoforder having a more serious personality, or the worst case scenario... i just wasn't funny.

i don't think the vote carries a lot of weight now that ive talked about the process behind it

Like in the last post

he literally explains

why he unvotes me.
After that Luca makes this post:

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

I don't understand this. All the information is there already for him to make an educated guess on if Dann's posts are being honest or not. He seems just wanting to press the issue because other people are/were pressing the issue. I understand he is being reasonable, but being reasonable doesn't exclude anyone from being mafia. Hell most of the time mafia wants to be reasonable, but this is like... idk overly reasonable lol. Luca here

should have all the necessary information

to make a call on Dann's posting on the matter and my alignment (or what Dann thinks about it now),

should not

matter there.

Other posts after that that worry me from Luca:

I'm not one for spewing my townreads early on, especially when they tend to be fairly consensus reads, but I'm currently leaning Town on Ninja, Vivax, Darth and outoforder. I still don't feel great about Dann's posts at the moment. Gob tonally seems quite townie but is probably the sort of player I will have a hard time reading D1. No-one else has left much of an impression yet.

I don't want to give townreads this early but hey let's call almost half of the game town.

He thinks Roden vs Oats is S/S, but for some reason he wants Oats to focus on gob rather than Roden?????

Roden is scum because he is aggressive, defensive and power wolfing.
Dann before his 374 post is possibly mafia because he is nice.
Like what other traits there basically is ?

[outoforder]

I really take issue of ninja basically accusing me of not knowing my own alignment...

[DarthPunk]

Basically my case on GOB is that he openly stated he was posting for the sake of posting.

That is mafia 101 scummy. What can I say? I am a simple man, I see a scum claim, I vote.

I don't think this is scummy

town post for the sake of posting probably more often than scum

This is just not true

Yeah I am struggling with people who

seem

to know a lot but really don't seem to know the basics.

[DarthPunk]

dunnstral why is superfluous' assertion about lurkers like the most interesting thing to you about this game so far

i don't think you're scum for lurking but i don't understand why you are picking at the things you are picking at

Do you not think lack of engagement is a mafia tell?

Does it concern you that Dunstrall is only pushing back on the assertion that would cause him to be in the list of mafia?

it doesn't concern me that dunstral is pushing back on this, I don't disagree that it's not a great tell

it concerns me that of all the things in the game thread this is what seems most interesting to him. I don't really know what it tells him about Ninja's alignment or what value he gets out of arguing this point

Can you respond to this again in a way that makes sense, I am not trying to be mean but I genuinely don't understand what you are trying to say here.

[DarthPunk]

I really take issue of ninja basically accusing me of not knowing my own alignment...

I like a Ninja lynch better than a Luca lynch to be honest.

Luca to me just seems to be freely posting whatever thoughts they happen to have at the time.

I don't think inconsistencies in thought processes are

purely

a mafia trait tbh.

Townies can do it too, cause they are just posting whatever pops into their heads.

[DarthPunk]

like gob seems disengaged thus far and clearly enjoys kinda being annoying towards Ninja. I don't think either of these features are super alignment indicative

Why is this not alignment indicative?

having played with gob before i've seen these sorts of behaviors from him as both alignments

Is there a third party who can verify this?

[outoforder]

I am not saying inconsistencies are purely a mafia trait. Regarding Luca's town reads, i don't understand why he posts 5 town reads while saying he doesn't want to post town reads too early, and also while thinking both Roden and Oats are mafia. Is that his best use of time, rather than idk.. questioning his scumreads or something? And also when he does that, why does he want Oats to discuss gob??? Like the best situation interaction-wise a townie can get to, is to make mafia tell why another mafia is mafia.

Same here with Dann's comment on Dunstrall. It's very easy to see what Dann sees. There is a lot of content in the game so far. Why does Dunstrall think discussing lurkers is the most interesting point of discussion at the time?

[Gypyx]

I really take issue of ninja basically accusing me of not knowing my own alignment...

I like a Ninja lynch better than a Luca lynch to be honest.

Luca to me just seems to be freely posting whatever thoughts they happen to have at the time.

I don't think inconsistencies in thought processes are

purely

a mafia trait tbh.

Townies can do it too, cause they are just posting whatever pops into their heads.

While i understeand being used to using the word Lynch, i am officially asking that you take more caution in choosing your words

[DarthPunk]

I really take issue of ninja basically accusing me of not knowing my own alignment...

I like a Ninja lynch better than a Luca lynch to be honest.

Luca to me just seems to be freely posting whatever thoughts they happen to have at the time.

I don't think inconsistencies in thought processes are

purely

a mafia trait tbh.

Townies can do it too, cause they are just posting whatever pops into their heads.

While i understeand being used to using the word Lynch, i am officially asking that you take more caution in choosing your words

Sorry, it really wasn't intentional and I have been trying.

Its a habit formed over 15 years.

[outoforder]

Anyways here is where i basically stand at the moment:
Town:
Dannflor
Vivax
Oatsmaster
gob
Roden
Probs town:
DarthPunk
Scummers be here:
Luca Blight
Dunnstral
Naerys
SuperfluousNinja
Hu Tao
Replaced:
MalcolmTucker

My problem is, while Dann's case on Ninja is good and reasonably sound, currently pretty much all of my scum pool agree with that.
So basically i am either very wrong, or if Ninja is mafia, there's probably one mafia agreeing with the case and then the Malcolm slot.
I have some reservations, but i would like to wait for Ninja to give her opinion on what Dann said, before going deeper on this.

[DarthPunk]

Anyways here is where i basically stand at the moment:
Town:
Dannflor
Vivax
Oatsmaster
gob
Roden
Probs town:
DarthPunk
Scummers be here:
Luca Blight
Dunnstral
Naerys
SuperfluousNinja
Hu Tao
Replaced:
MalcolmTucker

My problem is, while Dann's case on Ninja is good and reasonably sound, currently pretty much all of my scum pool agree with that.
So basically i am either very wrong, or if Ninja is mafia, there's probably one mafia agreeing with the case and then the Malcolm slot.
I have some reservations, but i would like to wait for Ninja to give her opinion on what Dann said, before going deeper on this.

Why do you always hedge on me being town.

[outoforder]

Because youre good playing as mafia.

[Luca Blight]

Spoiler:

For this whole thing that went on, i found Luca scummy. Why do i say that? It's because of this. Here's what Dann said about his vote and unvote after discussing with DP:

my vote was not because they "called me out for creating an association" (what exactly would be the benefit of me doing that anyway?)

I wanted to see what people would assume of my vote if I left out the explanation

it might simply be a case of me not making my parody clear enough, outoforder having a more serious personality, or the worst case scenario... i just wasn't funny.

i don't think the vote carries a lot of weight now that ive talked about the process behind it

Like in the last post

he literally explains

why he unvotes me.
After that Luca makes this post:

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

I don't understand this. All the information is there already for him to make an educated guess on if Dann's posts are being honest or not. He seems just wanting to press the issue because other people are/were pressing the issue. I understand he is being reasonable, but being reasonable doesn't exclude anyone from being mafia. Hell most of the time mafia wants to be reasonable, but this is like... idk overly reasonable lol. Luca here

should have all the necessary information

to make a call on Dann's posting on the matter and my alignment (or what Dann thinks about it now),

should not

matter there.

I don't understand what you're trying to say in your last paragraph, but the reason I asked the question was because, at the time, I wasn't sure as to Dann's real motivations/intentions behind the push/subsequent unvote. It felt as though he had taken some pressure for it and was in the process of backing off and underplaying it, despite having aired some seemingly genuine reasons to scumread you previously, so I found the choice of words 'not very well placed', referring to his vote on you, to be interesting and I sought clarification as to whether he had actually changed his opinion on you based on the reactions he received to his vote, seeing as you hadn't posted in the meantime. I was also considering the fact that Dann had been championing the general act of voting rather than not voting, so this move just struck me as pretty counter-intuitive at the time as well.

Basically, I held a light suspicion that Dann was caving to the pressure a little that made him react in a way I didn't see as natural in the context, which is why I wanted to press him a little further on the issue. This is redundant now as Dann's recent posting has been very townie.

[DarthPunk]

I have no idea why you think Rosen and gob are town btw.

Can you explain that cause I must of missed it

[Luca Blight]

Other posts after that that worry me from Luca:

I'm not one for spewing my townreads early on, especially when they tend to be fairly consensus reads, but I'm currently leaning Town on Ninja, Vivax, Darth and outoforder. I still don't feel great about Dann's posts at the moment. Gob tonally seems quite townie but is probably the sort of player I will have a hard time reading D1. No-one else has left much of an impression yet.

I don't want to give townreads this early but hey let's call almost half of the game town.

He thinks Roden vs Oats is S/S, but for some reason he wants Oats to focus on gob rather than Roden?????

Roden is scum because he is aggressive, defensive and power wolfing.
Dann before his 374 post is possibly mafia because he is nice.
Like what other traits there basically is ?

This quote of mine was literally in response to you accusing me of not 'solving'. I don't normally solve by giving townreads willy-nilly, but I did it for the benefit of showing where my thought-process was at given your accusation.

I don't 'want' Oats to focus on Gob than Roden? try reading that part again as you've completely missed the point.

Do all scum play Mafia in the same way? Your last point is quite absurd.

[Gypyx]

I really take issue of ninja basically accusing me of not knowing my own alignment...

I like a Ninja lynch better than a Luca lynch to be honest.

Luca to me just seems to be freely posting whatever thoughts they happen to have at the time.

I don't think inconsistencies in thought processes are

purely

a mafia trait tbh.

Townies can do it too, cause they are just posting whatever pops into their heads.

While i understeand being used to using the word Lynch, i am officially asking that you take more caution in choosing your words

Sorry, it really wasn't intentional and I have been trying.

Its a habit formed over 15 years.

Once again I understeand, i'll be patient but i'd really prefer to not have to keep doing reminders

[Luca Blight]

I am not saying inconsistencies are purely a mafia trait. Regarding Luca's town reads, i don't understand why he posts 5 town reads while saying he doesn't want to post town reads too early,

and also while thinking both Roden and Oats are mafia. Is that his best use of time, rather than idk.. questioning his scumreads or something?

And also when he does that, why does he want Oats to discuss gob??? Like the best situation interaction-wise a townie can get to, is to make mafia tell why another mafia is mafia. :D

Same here with Dann's comment on Dunstrall. It's very easy to see what Dann sees. There is a lot of content in the game so far. Why does Dunstrall think discussing lurkers is the most interesting point of discussion at the time?

You seem to massively contradict yourself from one sentence to another, unless I just don't understand what you're saying here.

I also don't have a strong SR on Oats and never have - just his interaction with Roden seemed off to me. I do, however, read Roden as scum independently. You seem to be making out like I'm throwing all my chips on Oats and Roden being partners, which isn't the case at all. You're overblowing everything I've said.

[outoforder]

Spoiler:

For this whole thing that went on, i found Luca scummy. Why do i say that? It's because of this. Here's what Dann said about his vote and unvote after discussing with DP:

my vote was not because they "called me out for creating an association" (what exactly would be the benefit of me doing that anyway?)

I wanted to see what people would assume of my vote if I left out the explanation

it might simply be a case of me not making my parody clear enough, outoforder having a more serious personality, or the worst case scenario... i just wasn't funny.

i don't think the vote carries a lot of weight now that ive talked about the process behind it

Like in the last post

he literally explains

why he unvotes me.
After that Luca makes this post:

I just didn't feel like my vote on outoforder was very well placed after talking to both you and DarthPunk

aside from that it was largely for show, i wanted to share where my reads were at

Does that mean you've changed your opinion on outoforder?

I don't understand this. All the information is there already for him to make an educated guess on if Dann's posts are being honest or not. He seems just wanting to press the issue because other people are/were pressing the issue. I understand he is being reasonable, but being reasonable doesn't exclude anyone from being mafia. Hell most of the time mafia wants to be reasonable, but this is like... idk overly reasonable lol. Luca here

should have all the necessary information

to make a call on Dann's posting on the matter and my alignment (or what Dann thinks about it now),

should not

matter there.

I don't understand what you're trying to say in your last paragraph, but the reason I asked the question was because, at the time, I wasn't sure as to Dann's real motivations/intentions behind the push/subsequent unvote. It felt as though he had taken some pressure for it and was in the process of backing off and underplaying it, despite having aired some seemingly genuine reasons to scumread you previously, so I found the choice of words 'not very well placed', referring to his vote on you, to be interesting and I sought clarification as to whether he had actually changed his opinion on you based on the reactions he received to his vote, seeing as you hadn't posted in the meantime. I was also considering the fact that Dann had been championing the general act of voting rather than not voting, so this move just struck me as pretty counter-intuitive at the time as well.

Basically, I held a light suspicion that Dann was caving to the pressure a little that made him react in a way I didn't see as natural in the context, which is why I wanted to press him a little further on the issue. This is redundant now as Dann's recent posting has been very townie.

I understand your point, and i completely understand on surface level your posting during the time.
However, what i

dont understand

is why you couldnt figure this out earlier (your last post i quoted on the matter). For me it looked very clear what Dann was doing.
- He made a joke (again i dont get why he even would do that as mafia --

a joke in that way

)
- He got pressed on his "pressure vote" (or whatever) on me
- He realised this isnt doing what it was supposed to do (which is reasonable), so he backed off of it so that the thread doesn't fill up with "nonsense"
- He explained why he did what he did, and why he backed off of it

Again, i don't see what my alignment has to do here. That was not Dann's point. Regardless of what Dann thinks of my alignment, this whole thing doesn't help him to figure out my alignment -- if anything it just causes more confusion in the thread. It's a pretty simple interpretation of the situation, yet for some reason i read you wanting to continue this confusion by making him over-explain things that you should already deduce from what had been said.

Other posts after that that worry me from Luca:

I'm not one for spewing my townreads early on, especially when they tend to be fairly consensus reads, but I'm currently leaning Town on Ninja, Vivax, Darth and outoforder. I still don't feel great about Dann's posts at the moment. Gob tonally seems quite townie but is probably the sort of player I will have a hard time reading D1. No-one else has left much of an impression yet.

I don't want to give townreads this early but hey let's call almost half of the game town.

He thinks Roden vs Oats is S/S, but for some reason he wants Oats to focus on gob rather than Roden?????

Roden is scum because he is aggressive, defensive and power wolfing.
Dann before his 374 post is possibly mafia because he is nice.
Like what other traits there basically is ?

This quote of mine was literally in response to you accusing me of not 'solving'. I don't normally solve by giving townreads willy-nilly, but I did it for the benefit of showing where my thought-process was at given your accusation.

I don't 'want' Oats to focus on Gob than Roden? try reading that part again as you've completely missed the point.

Do all scum play Mafia in the same way? Your last point is quite absurd.

If you don't "normally" solve by giving townreads at the time, then what made you think to post them just because i said you're not solving (after all that's not even what i meant)? If you don't think that's good town play for you, why did you decide to do it, if you're not sure of yourself to give those reads at any level of confidence at that time?

Then why did you ask multiple times if Oats also meta'd gob? What's the point? I mean, at that point you think Oats and Roden are both mafia and gob is possibly not mafia. Do you think mafia!Oats goes all the way meta'ing mafia!Roden, they pick a huge fight with each other, but then Oats refuses to meta EITHER town! or mafia!gob???? Why would he refuse to meta town!gob? He already did that to his mafia teammate, why in any world does he NOT go meta gob and come to whatever conclusion? Same if gob is mafia with Oats (yet i think claiming all Oats, Roden and gob are mafia is just ridiculous and Oats would have made probably the worst play ever seen at the start of the game).

I just simply don't understand how your questions are very reasonable regarding the situation where those three people were -- or in situation where they have put themselves.

Not all mafia pay the same way. But you don't offer much of explanation for how that behavior comes from mafia. Being aggressive or defensive is not in itself a mafia trait. Being nice is not a mafia trait. Basically almost anything could be considered as "power wolfing" (i don't really even know what that means, it sounds stupid). I mean like you are being defensive here. People are defensive when they are accused of being mafia. Does that make you mafia?

[outoforder]

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?

[outoforder]

I have no idea why you think Rosen and gob are town btw.

Can you explain that cause I must of missed it

I don't think Roden picks up the fight with Oats (from his part) they way he does as mafia. He has all the avenues to pursue there that actually make him look good and Oats bad, yet he chooses to act like that. I simply just don't think he addresses the whole situation with Oats like he did.

I also don't think gob ends up voting Vivax with

that reasoning

as mafia. I simply just refuse to believe mafia made that vote post on Vivax.

[outoforder]

Fine Luca, maybe i believe your point on Oats / Roden.
It's just that when i see someone saying "this looks like S/S interaction", i believe they think both are mafia.

[Luca Blight]

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?

It was my initial reaction to the interaction. I even used the expression 'it wouldn't surprise me', so why are you trying to frame this as me being convinced that they are scum partners?

This is why I don't think your recent analysis is in good faith - I could see where you were coming from with your opening push, but now it feels like you're nitpicking anything to justify maintaining your read on me.

[Luca Blight]

Fine Luca, maybe i believe your point on Oats / Roden.
It's just that when i see someone saying "this looks like S/S interaction", i believe they think both are mafia.

It's a thought that crossed my mind, but even now I probably think it's wrong as I'm currently townreading oats.

[Luca Blight]

'

I think it's probably wrong

' would be a more logical order.

I have to do some work now so will return to this a bit later.