Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Psyche destroying Jacob with words

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

It was intended to be somewhat controlling, since I wanted to try and get things under control. I am a very logic-based person so I wanted to really flesh out the arguments and such.

I think the questions you're asking are fine, but you're digging in a bit much. For right now, I'm with Luca in voting for bugspray but I may acknowledge some other notions as to the scum identity.

#30 by jacob24 is notably cautious.
in #88 jacob provides more context. says he wants to "flesh out the arguments and such". it doesn't seem he ever follows through though.
eg in #83 he places blank vote for bugspray

VOTE: Jacob

I'm not really vibing with his reasons for joining the bug wagon. He said he wants to sheep Luca but Luca hasn't even voted there yet. It almost feels like he wanted to hop on before Luca because he knew Luca would likely join. Feels a little opportunistic

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

#116 black pressures him for the vote, and he responds
#117 expresses that consistency w/ "logic-based" self-characterization derives from fact that luca provided clearer reasoning for bugspray vote. did luca? oh luca was the one that jacob asked follow-up question to. so jacob liked the answer? odd that this wasn't directly expressed until prompted if it was so persuasive. suggests an inclination to maintain flexibility.

UNVOTE:

Don't need/want e-2 on new player immediately. I'd like to hear them out first.

#227/#254 jacob unvote of bugspray and call for delay on dann is more consistent w/ self-characterization, but rather than logic-based and interest in fleshing out arguments, i'm just seeing caution, which can be okay
otoh 254/256/283 considered together are pretty wild and throws my "cautious" read into doubt

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

Uh, yeah, if Dannflor is town I want to give them a chance to save themselves. Luca's read could have been confused by the fact that bugs was disinterested and not really into the game. Also that bugs left points to them being more town as I agree with what was said about not replacing out if scum.

This makes me think you may actually be the one working with Dannflor, calling me out for a reasonable play, making it seem like you want me to keep vote on someone you aren't voting yourself.

black is voting for me

Oop, that's right. Forgot they voted after last count. That vote makes me think she's town and you're scum or you're town and she's scum.

i did not

i actually read the game first this time and made sure i was replacing into what i thought was more likely to be a town slot before i replaced in

This post is crazy to me. Clearly you didn’t read close enough. This feels like an incredibly flimsy defense. Despite me earlier doubts, I’m back with Luca and like Black’s thoughts.

VOTE: Dannflor

in this last one jacob is calling someone out for not reading close enough after failing to notice a vote critical to his reads.
but the whole sequence swings between strong attitudes re dann/black that abandons the told-but-not-really-ever-shown thoughtfulness in prior posts.

jacob is fully committed to the dann wagon by #369, even trying to convince me to jump on

VOTE: ketchup

Still think that ketchup seems scummy. Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann.

but doesn't seem to reel or reorient at all after being wrong. would imagine that someone as anxious as jacob initially coded having a stronger reaction to error feedback here.

have had trouble reading new players in the past, but rough rule of thumb for reading unskilled players is to try ignoring inconsistencies/bs in the content of their posts and focus on consistency of conveyed emotions/attitudes/dispositions with other behavior. a consistent personality read that works over jacob's trajectory seems impossible, which inclines me to interpretation that the trajectory is faked. but maybe as easy to imagine that scum would try harder to more consistently perform the role he explicitly took on. i'm interested in seeing the slot flip but i can't say i have a firm read on it either way.

This seems like a town post

is it cause it's long or because of something else?

He found some Jacob holes that I missed but that seem perfectly plausible. lots of quotes

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: This is a small post I swear

14 throwing out accusations seemingly at random, and with some degree of confidence behind it that I don't think is necessarily faked because of 85 but that could have been formed because Luca/Ketchup took that statement and formed their own analysis over it but I'll analyse that when I get to it, if it's of worth to do so.

Luca took that read (bug/psyche contains scum) and said he agrees with it, thinking Psyche would be the wolf and expanded his thoughts in 22 by just saying that Psyche/Bug aren't wolves together and leaves it at that, not elaborating as to why he agreed that there's a wolf in that pool at all, just expanding on the assumption and Psyche calls this out specifically in 24 so I hope this gets elaborated on.

Luca's response is a shallow "I dislike both of your openings" which for page 2 is incredibly fair to be this shallow but expanding it into what it is feels a little strange to do. It's almost vocalising something just for the sake of doing so which if it launched the game out of RVS in the first page then there's no real complaints from me.

@ketchup

, in 37 you say "From the few games I looked at before this, the mafia tend to just lurk in the shadows at the start while town do a good job of killing themselves off." which is a dangerous thought process to have as once you start playing with wolves that are comfortable being wolves or primarily focus on being a strong voice in the Town, this will let you down so I feel reading people purely based on the logic you're using is not super reliable from my own personal experience.

43 is an incredibly townie post by ketchup, "I don't really have much to go on against psyche at the moment" insinuates they want to push Psyche but has nothing, which from a wolf who is less experienced (assuming based on the discussion you said "from the few games") this message would not come out as pure as this would as they would generally be apprehensive to say something like this, if they're experienced and trying to hide that then this would be less of a strong read but exists nonetheless.

Outworld's response to the bug/psyche pool (85) was a substantially townie one, the thought process is unique to what had been said from luca and ketchup so they didn't try and take the logic they had to any particular degree but instead had their own of which the logic is sound for. They even don't seem to be pushing this based on wanting an elim (after seeing something scummy) they seem to be genuinely gauging them with their second part of this post.

Ketchups' analysis on Jacob (87) has me smiling actually, especially given their "throwaway kinda feels like a mafia member going through the mental checklist of things they need to do (type a message in the thread: check!)" gave me a little chuckle. I am confident in this as town, this feels pure although that last bit "thanks for putting some guilt on me tho I don't wanna be killed on night 1 xxx" feels a little iffy but I'm willing to overlook that for now.

I like Black's analysis in 112, which is a different angle than I was taking to town-read ketchup.

120 by project is putting suspicions onto Ketchup for doing too much for too few genuine reasons but isn't pushing Luca for doing the exact same thing, I am going to keep in mind this very post to see if that does change or if the inconsistency between why they're reading specific people stays.

Delta's 142 is like textbook town. They saw something they deemed to be incredibly obvious to be scummy and assumes others will see it as fast as she does.

167 (a VC) bugspray being at a substantially larger wagon from very early on until this point in the game while every other wagon has a single vote on it makes me want to view bugspray in a positive light. I wanna see how people change their behaviour after seeing this shown to them, if anybody votes quite quickly and for unsubstantiated reasons (it would need to be someone already voted so hutao, psyche, myself or ketchup) I'm gonna perk my pretty little eyebrows up at them.

Ah just saw bugs is Dannflor, so I don't gotta read them. It's fun that I was right about them though. Not quoting any particular posts but Hu Tao's posts in recent memory have all been trying to almost fear monger against Dannflor 294 I hope Gypyx explained what's bold about Jacob (future JV here, they did)

My eyes are starting to glide, oh no. Just gonna commit to the skim read and reply if I see something of worth. 679 from Gypyx reads manipulative to a pretty high degree but I'm not exactly sure how to place it, paired with 684 it feels like faking pressure for the sake of pressure to try and squeeze out a few drops of delicious town juice (which I imagine is like a orange and mango juice). 690 is also shading Delta for no real reason more so than being constructive about the list that was posted. 733 is just as bad.

Cutting off my catchup at Drew claiming the vig in 836

TR:

ketchup, Outworld, Drew

TL:

Luca, Psyche

NT:

Black

NS:

SL:

Hu Tao

SR:

Gypyx, Project

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Gypyx

[JacksonVirgo]

Project is also on the table, but will wait to see what Titus does with the slot

[Gypyx]

Spoiler: Psyche destroying Jacob with words

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

It was intended to be somewhat controlling, since I wanted to try and get things under control. I am a very logic-based person so I wanted to really flesh out the arguments and such.

I think the questions you're asking are fine, but you're digging in a bit much. For right now, I'm with Luca in voting for bugspray but I may acknowledge some other notions as to the scum identity.

#30 by jacob24 is notably cautious.
in #88 jacob provides more context. says he wants to "flesh out the arguments and such". it doesn't seem he ever follows through though.
eg in #83 he places blank vote for bugspray

VOTE: Jacob

I'm not really vibing with his reasons for joining the bug wagon. He said he wants to sheep Luca but Luca hasn't even voted there yet. It almost feels like he wanted to hop on before Luca because he knew Luca would likely join. Feels a little opportunistic

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

#116 black pressures him for the vote, and he responds
#117 expresses that consistency w/ "logic-based" self-characterization derives from fact that luca provided clearer reasoning for bugspray vote. did luca? oh luca was the one that jacob asked follow-up question to. so jacob liked the answer? odd that this wasn't directly expressed until prompted if it was so persuasive. suggests an inclination to maintain flexibility.

UNVOTE:

Don't need/want e-2 on new player immediately. I'd like to hear them out first.

#227/#254 jacob unvote of bugspray and call for delay on dann is more consistent w/ self-characterization, but rather than logic-based and interest in fleshing out arguments, i'm just seeing caution, which can be okay
otoh 254/256/283 considered together are pretty wild and throws my "cautious" read into doubt

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

Uh, yeah, if Dannflor is town I want to give them a chance to save themselves. Luca's read could have been confused by the fact that bugs was disinterested and not really into the game. Also that bugs left points to them being more town as I agree with what was said about not replacing out if scum.

This makes me think you may actually be the one working with Dannflor, calling me out for a reasonable play, making it seem like you want me to keep vote on someone you aren't voting yourself.

black is voting for me

Oop, that's right. Forgot they voted after last count. That vote makes me think she's town and you're scum or you're town and she's scum.

i did not

i actually read the game first this time and made sure i was replacing into what i thought was more likely to be a town slot before i replaced in

This post is crazy to me. Clearly you didn’t read close enough. This feels like an incredibly flimsy defense. Despite me earlier doubts, I’m back with Luca and like Black’s thoughts.

VOTE: Dannflor

in this last one jacob is calling someone out for not reading close enough after failing to notice a vote critical to his reads.
but the whole sequence swings between strong attitudes re dann/black that abandons the told-but-not-really-ever-shown thoughtfulness in prior posts.

jacob is fully committed to the dann wagon by #369, even trying to convince me to jump on

VOTE: ketchup

Still think that ketchup seems scummy. Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann.

but doesn't seem to reel or reorient at all after being wrong. would imagine that someone as anxious as jacob initially coded having a stronger reaction to error feedback here.

have had trouble reading new players in the past, but rough rule of thumb for reading unskilled players is to try ignoring inconsistencies/bs in the content of their posts and focus on consistency of conveyed emotions/attitudes/dispositions with other behavior. a consistent personality read that works over jacob's trajectory seems impossible, which inclines me to interpretation that the trajectory is faked. but maybe as easy to imagine that scum would try harder to more consistently perform the role he explicitly took on. i'm interested in seeing the slot flip but i can't say i have a firm read on it either way.

This seems like a town post

is it cause it's long or because of something else?

He found some Jacob holes that I missed but that seem perfectly plausible. lots of quotes

So town is when you are correct and scum is when you are wrong?

idk, i think the case is good, but it's not really AI for psyche, not until we get more flips at least

[Gypyx]

VOTE: Gypyx

oh no jacob rolled scum again

[JacksonVirgo]

Quite the opposite, funny how you label someone voting you as something scummy in and of itself

[Gypyx]

Quite the opposite, funny how you label someone voting you as something scummy in and of itself

Yes i am a paragon of towniness and anyone harming me can only be an agent of evil

jokes aside this is a very towny start and i like your reaction

[JacksonVirgo]

jokes aside this is a very towny start and i like your reaction

Of course it's a towny start, I am a paragon of towniness and anyone harming me can only be an agent of evil

[Gypyx]

jokes aside this is a very towny start and i like your reaction

Of course it's a towny start, I am a paragon of towniness and anyone harming me can only be an agent of evil

How about you vote ketchup777 then, he's the evildoer trying to cause your slot's death not me

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm a forgiving paragon of towniness

[Gypyx]

*starts withering away from the sheer towniness of jackson like a vampire*

oh wow you sure are huh, how would you feel about placing your vote elsewhere please <3

how would you feel if i told you i was just being manipulative for the fun of it

[Psyche]

still substantially tr projectry/titus and ketchup

[JacksonVirgo]

*starts withering away from the sheer towniness of jackson like a vampire*

oh wow you sure are huh, how would you feel about placing your vote elsewhere please <3

how would you feel if i told you i was just being manipulative for the fun of it

Flattery doesn't work on me but nice try

Spoiler:

Except the times it does ofc

[JacksonVirgo]

still substantially tr projectry/titus and ketchup

I vibe with the Ketchup side of this statement

[Psyche]

i think i've already run out of momentum

[Gypyx]

honestly i've been getting somewhat weary of ketchup based on his play being like, kinda proscum, and i say that as someone who likes to rates vibes and emotions pretty highly, this is probably not day 2 stuff anyways

[Gypyx]

i think i've already run out of momentum

VOTE: Black

[Psyche]

imo the sequence that produced 368 is close to as easy to townread as luca's whole deal

[Gypyx]

imo the sequence that produced 368 is close to as easy to townread as luca's whole deal

I mean, there's a weird discrepency between how enthusiastic he was about sharing his reads and how a lot of those were just "Yeah this person have done that, other people read it like that, i agree"

i can view ir as ketchup being encouraged in the scum PT to share his reads

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: Psyche destroying Jacob with words

These early reads seem a bit mindless… let’s slow down a bit and think about it.

I’m here by the way.

It was intended to be somewhat controlling, since I wanted to try and get things under control. I am a very logic-based person so I wanted to really flesh out the arguments and such.

I think the questions you're asking are fine, but you're digging in a bit much. For right now, I'm with Luca in voting for bugspray but I may acknowledge some other notions as to the scum identity.

#30 by jacob24 is notably cautious.
in #88 jacob provides more context. says he wants to "flesh out the arguments and such". it doesn't seem he ever follows through though.
eg in #83 he places blank vote for bugspray

VOTE: Jacob

I'm not really vibing with his reasons for joining the bug wagon. He said he wants to sheep Luca but Luca hasn't even voted there yet. It almost feels like he wanted to hop on before Luca because he knew Luca would likely join. Feels a little opportunistic

Fair enough. Maybe better to say I liked Luca's reasoning. A lot of people had put votes down on Bug without explaining really so I wanted something a little more formal. Post 26 felt good when I read the ISO on him.

#116 black pressures him for the vote, and he responds
#117 expresses that consistency w/ "logic-based" self-characterization derives from fact that luca provided clearer reasoning for bugspray vote. did luca? oh luca was the one that jacob asked follow-up question to. so jacob liked the answer? odd that this wasn't directly expressed until prompted if it was so persuasive. suggests an inclination to maintain flexibility.

UNVOTE:

Don't need/want e-2 on new player immediately. I'd like to hear them out first.

#227/#254 jacob unvote of bugspray and call for delay on dann is more consistent w/ self-characterization, but rather than logic-based and interest in fleshing out arguments, i'm just seeing caution, which can be okay
otoh 254/256/283 considered together are pretty wild and throws my "cautious" read into doubt

227 feels LAMIST to me and I don't think it makes sense for Jacob to get off the bug wagon if he thinks Luca's read is accurate. Feels more like he wants to give Dannflor a chance to save himself

Uh, yeah, if Dannflor is town I want to give them a chance to save themselves. Luca's read could have been confused by the fact that bugs was disinterested and not really into the game. Also that bugs left points to them being more town as I agree with what was said about not replacing out if scum.

This makes me think you may actually be the one working with Dannflor, calling me out for a reasonable play, making it seem like you want me to keep vote on someone you aren't voting yourself.

black is voting for me

Oop, that's right. Forgot they voted after last count. That vote makes me think she's town and you're scum or you're town and she's scum.

i did not

i actually read the game first this time and made sure i was replacing into what i thought was more likely to be a town slot before i replaced in

This post is crazy to me. Clearly you didn’t read close enough. This feels like an incredibly flimsy defense. Despite me earlier doubts, I’m back with Luca and like Black’s thoughts.

VOTE: Dannflor

in this last one jacob is calling someone out for not reading close enough after failing to notice a vote critical to his reads.
but the whole sequence swings between strong attitudes re dann/black that abandons the told-but-not-really-ever-shown thoughtfulness in prior posts.

jacob is fully committed to the dann wagon by #369, even trying to convince me to jump on

VOTE: ketchup

Still think that ketchup seems scummy. Also Lucca looks bad now for their bad ready of bugs/Dann.

but doesn't seem to reel or reorient at all after being wrong. would imagine that someone as anxious as jacob initially coded having a stronger reaction to error feedback here.

have had trouble reading new players in the past, but rough rule of thumb for reading unskilled players is to try ignoring inconsistencies/bs in the content of their posts and focus on consistency of conveyed emotions/attitudes/dispositions with other behavior. a consistent personality read that works over jacob's trajectory seems impossible, which inclines me to interpretation that the trajectory is faked. but maybe as easy to imagine that scum would try harder to more consistently perform the role he explicitly took on. i'm interested in seeing the slot flip but i can't say i have a firm read on it either way.

This seems like a town post

is it cause it's long or because of something else?

He found some Jacob holes that I missed but that seem perfectly plausible. lots of quotes

So town is when you are correct and scum is when you are wrong?

idk, i think the case is good, but it's not really AI for psyche, not until we get more flips at least

I put a lot of thought behind Saturday’s analysis and so am fairly confident in my reads for now, yeah. all could change tho

[ketchup777]

imo the sequence that produced 368 is close to as easy to townread as luca's whole deal

I mean, there's a weird discrepency between how enthusiastic he was about sharing his reads and how a lot of those were just "Yeah this person have done that, other people read it like that, i agree"

i can view ir as ketchup being encouraged in the scum PT to share his reads

It

was

11:11pm on a Thursday when I made that post. Translation: shattered from 4 days of school, probably slightly incoherent

Unfortunately I don’t have access to the scum PT yet, anyone wanna send me a link?

[ketchup777]

honestly i've been getting somewhat weary of ketchup based on his play being like, kinda proscum, and i say that as someone who likes to rates vibes and emotions pretty highly, this is probably not day 2 stuff anyways

Fully agree my Dann vote looks really bad, won’t deny that. But why do you think my Hu Tao push is proscum?

[Gypyx]

honestly i've been getting somewhat weary of ketchup based on his play being like, kinda proscum, and i say that as someone who likes to rates vibes and emotions pretty highly, this is probably not day 2 stuff anyways

Fully agree my Dann vote looks really bad, won’t deny that. But why do you think my Hu Tao push is proscum?

well i can't tell right now if the Hu Tao vote is towny or scummy, i'd need more alignement infos but it certainely doesn't help us to stabilize this game

what i said lies more in the little things of your post by post actions

[ketchup777]

honestly i've been getting somewhat weary of ketchup based on his play being like, kinda proscum, and i say that as someone who likes to rates vibes and emotions pretty highly, this is probably not day 2 stuff anyways

Fully agree my Dann vote looks really bad, won’t deny that. But why do you think my Hu Tao push is proscum?

well i can't tell right now if the Hu Tao vote is towny or scummy, i'd need more alignement infos but it certainely doesn't help us to stabilize this game

what i said lies more in the little things of your post by post actions

we can find out by voting hu tao, what happened to wanting blood and drama?