Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[outoforder]

Or even Luca, once he got off the hook he just vanished.

[DarthPunk]

And maybe ninja but only if you have time.

[DarthPunk]

Or even Luca, once he got off the hook he just vanished.

Luca vibes town hard to me.

[outoforder]

Can you look at Dann again Rayn he looks scummy to me.

I really don't have a reason to believe he doesn't believe in what he is posting.

[outoforder]

Or even Luca, once he got off the hook he just vanished.

Luca vibes town hard to me.

Sure, i will blame you if all of you are wrong.

[DarthPunk]

Can you look at Dann again Rayn he looks scummy to me.

I really don't have a reason to believe he doesn't believe in what he is posting.

Is he trying to solve or trying to post cases

[Oatsmaster]

Hey oats why are you town reading me by the way?

well for one everyone else is scum,
another is you feel like you are actually trying to make an effort to be nice to people even though it’s hard and it doesn’t feel like a scum dp thing to do

Is that something you would expect a town!do to do?

Yes?
Town dp wants to win the game by leading town

I read our last town game together. I did not play like this but it was like 9 years ago. So I was wondering if the change should be jarring for you.

Just because the actual tone is different doesn’t mean the intent is different.

OOO are you interested in this game or like not really

[DarthPunk]

Hey oats why are you town reading me by the way?

well for one everyone else is scum,
another is you feel like you are actually trying to make an effort to be nice to people even though it’s hard and it doesn’t feel like a scum dp thing to do

Is that something you would expect a town!do to do?

Yes?
Town dp wants to win the game by leading town

I read our last town game together. I did not play like this but it was like 9 years ago. So I was wondering if the change should be jarring for you.

Just because the actual tone is different doesn’t mean the intent is different.

OOO are you interested in this game or like not really

Well this is true.

[outoforder]

Can you look at Dann again Rayn he looks scummy to me.

I really don't have a reason to believe he doesn't believe in what he is posting.

Is he trying to solve or trying to post cases

I dont know to be honest. I dont feel like most of the people outside TL are trying to solve in a sense i consider solving, so i am not sure if that in itself is a good metric reading those people.
What i do know however is, that
1) i found his early game really townie
2) he had a good point on Ninja, her read on Luca. Like Luca himself commented on the post that Ninja said makes him "super town", that it wasnt even a real reads post, but just rather a commentary on which of Roden's posts are aggressive, defensive, etc. For some reason a commentary on posts results in "super town" read in Ninja's head (even after Luca has already clarified the post in discussion with me).
3) i can see how in Dann's world he thinks your play comes from mafia. I definitely don't agree and he's never gonna get you lynched for that.

And for that i am not really interested in Dann at the moment. I think his play comes more likely from town, and if he is mafia he is gonna give himself away sooner or later. Note that his list post says:

[...]
MIXED/NULL: Dunnstral, Naerys, MalcolmTucker, Roden
LEAN SCUM: Vivax
SCUM: DarthPunk

Now he's not getting you lynched. He's definitely not getting Grackaroni lynched. I don't think he's gonna get Naerys lynched.
I don't care whoever else he tries to actually lynch at the EoD1 atm.

The most bothering thing about Dann is that every now and then he pings Dunnstral, but then he goes back to do something completely different. Now i

can see

a townie reason for this, but i admit there is a moderate chance of distancing, because that's some pretty vague shit.

[outoforder]

I mean like...
Even if Dann is mafia, there is like 90% chance there is at least 2 mafia in that NULL->SCUM list of his.
I am gonna let him bus if he wants to bus, or if he's town, his reads are pretty good.

[outoforder]

OOO are you interested in this game or like not really

I'm mostly trying to establish how people play and what to expect of them.
I am in no hurry, we have more than 5 irl day left.
I don't give a shit if you think i am interested or not.

[DarthPunk]

OOO are you interested in this game or like not really

I'm mostly trying to establish how people play and what to expect of them.
I am in no hurry, we have more than 5 irl day left.
I don't give a shit if you think i am interested or not.

OK I like this post.

[DarthPunk]

I'd really like to narrow down some realistic elim candidates, I'm not considering vivax basically for out of game reasons. I don't want him to get day one'd again.

I'm feeling good about Grack and oats, and I feel better about you when you are here.

I don't think gob is realistic because everyone is just dismissing him as lynch bait, and while he seems really scummy to me other people seem to read him as town so maybe I am missing something. If I consider him as a Kushmasta or something then I guess it makes sense.

I like flipping Roden here probably, because I think out of the viable lynch candidates, he is the most likely to flip scum and also gives a lot of information as there has been lots of stances taken regarding him and his play.

I could also flip a lurker but I generally feel this is a losing play unless there is some additional EV somewhere with that flip.

[DarthPunk]

I don't really think you are mafia, especially after you wrote that big post. I do suspect what Roden was doing in pushing whatshisname as their confidence felt faked. And now that you've pointed out I agree that Hu Tao's vote on you does not look good so they seem suspicious too.

Can you just summarize your thoughts on the players in the game so that we kind of have a sense of what your thoughts are and how you would like to progress things.

The fact that he left thread without answering this really bothers me by the way.

UNVOTE: gob
VOTE: dunnstral

[outoforder]

On ninja:

Spoiler:

And maybe ninja but only if you have time.

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

now, why isn't this a vote instead of an FoS

This was dann’s best post imo

I’m bothered by all the other stuff but maybe that is normal here?

I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations.

This feels a little all over the place. The "this was their best post" already tripped my wires since the game is, like, 3 pages old. That's like saying the second verse of the first song of Taylor Swift's new album is the best part of the album while you're listening to it for the first time ever.

But then there's an attempted takesies-backsies with the "I'm trying to be careful" thing. If you want to be careful, it seems like a first sensible step would be to not try and summarize such a small sample size of material.

I liked this post because i can see how Ninja would think that. Now i know that this doesn't mean anything alignment-wise for DP, but it's not a bad notion if you consider the culture of the site.

I genuinely dislike people who say "this is what a townie should do in this situation and this is what mafia would do and look i am doing the townie thing" to explain their actions, however again, because of the site culture i dont think thats necessarily scummy for her.

As i already said i don't like how she ended up on her read on Luca, or rather the level of confidence of it.

This is the most i have issues with Ninja. I said i think Dann is town because:

"..he would most likely not be so blatantly tying himself up with a townie here. It might cause him problems"

Now Ninja to this responds:

"That is, of course, dependent on the other person actually BEING town.

Is there not a great deal of confirmation bias going on with your reads?

"

What confirmation bias? Is it confirmation bias that i think i am town????? This is honestly a sole reason why Ninja is mafia if she is.

I have posted at least two times with clear words why i think gob is town. I am not sure why someone actually reading the thread has missed it.

Nevertheless, there are some clearly townie traits/things in her posting. She's openly willing to enter discussions about anything, and i don't think her take on Dann's case is unreasonable at all. I mean like if someone in TL said "after OOO i am ready to move to gob", that would be 100% mafia just luncherino straight out post immediately. But it's not like that here, i have seen more stupid leaps of logic coming from town. Also for someone who seems so self-concious, that doesn't really seem like something they would say as mafia. I also agree, especially towards what has happened in the last day or so, that her take on Oats/Roden seems pretty good.

[outoforder]

Considering the low content posters, aka the pool of gob / Hu Tao / Naerys / Dunnstrall
- Through the whole game gob has seemed proactive rather than reactive in his own way
- Similar to Hu Tao (especially her) and Naerys, during last irl day

- Dunstrall seems not proactive at all, only reactive

[DarthPunk]

I find her really difficult to evaluate to be honest, because wherever she has played mafia before she clearly operates and analyzes the game on a set of fundamental principles that I agree with such as:

In post 341, gob wrote:
I read it and im not following sorry. Can you explain it again to me?

Okay. Then that confirms that you are, once again, just "posting for the sake of posting" and are not actively engaged in solving things for town.

And she is also pushing the thread along, making people justify their positions which is all good stuff.

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

what are the good arguments that dannflor has made?

I do wonder what Superfluous is referring to in this post with her post about Dannfloor if not the post about herself, which I know she says she missed in a later post. That's the bulk of his content that I've noted at this point and the most aggressive post that he's made.

This is why she is mafia if she is mafia. She has dann as very active and aggressive which does not match reality in a world in which she doesn't see the big case against her. It just isn't a realistic assessment of the state of his filter at that time without the post.

So is she lying about missing the post? Is her analysis of his play contrived?

Add that to the waffling/contradictions and the blatant image curation that is occurring and she is tough to read.

But I really do not understand how that assessment of Dann can come from town, so I guess she is just mafia.

[DarthPunk]

I was hoping for grack to push her more at the time.

[DarthPunk]

I agree re: Dunnstral I am fine to try and yeet him and see what happens. You know I love shenanigans

[outoforder]

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

[outoforder]

I find her really difficult to evaluate to be honest, because wherever she has played mafia before she clearly operates and analyzes the game on a set of fundamental principles that I agree with such as:

In post 341, gob wrote:
I read it and im not following sorry. Can you explain it again to me?

Okay. Then that confirms that you are, once again, just "posting for the sake of posting" and are not actively engaged in solving things for town.

And she is also pushing the thread along, making people justify their positions which is all good stuff.

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

what are the good arguments that dannflor has made?

I do wonder what Superfluous is referring to in this post with her post about Dannfloor if not the post about herself, which I know she says she missed in a later post. That's the bulk of his content that I've noted at this point and the most aggressive post that he's made.

This is why she is mafia if she is mafia. She has dann as very active and aggressive which does not match reality in a world in which she doesn't see the big case against her. It just isn't a realistic assessment of the state of his filter at that time without the post.

So is she lying about missing the post? Is her analysis of his play contrived?

Add that to the waffling/contradictions and the blatant image curation that is occurring and she is tough to read.

But I really do not understand how that assessment of Dann can come from town, so I guess she is just mafia.

You are right.
There is also the thing with Luca that somehow the reasoning which made her think Luca is "super town" doesn't appear in the reasons why Luca is town.

[outoforder]

But i don't really understand why she doesn't put me in scum category there.
There should be nothing wrong for her to do that, it would just give her more suspects.
Or is it just being irrational = mafia?

[Dunnstral]

I don't really think you are mafia, especially after you wrote that big post. I do suspect what Roden was doing in pushing whatshisname as their confidence felt faked. And now that you've pointed out I agree that Hu Tao's vote on you does not look good so they seem suspicious too.

Can you just summarize your thoughts on the players in the game so that we kind of have a sense of what your thoughts are and how you would like to progress things.

I don't think my thoughts are particularly cryptic in that you can probably iso me with my low posts and get them all within a minute. But sure, let's list them out.


Town: DarthPunk, SuperfluousNinja

Suspicious: Naerys, Roden

And I mentioned that gob is not suspicious because they are playing as suspected. Though that doesn't mean I townread them - I don't really know what they are.

[Luca Blight]

499 is brilliant - it reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely, and offers many insights that I had not yet considered. I've seen scum act far worse than oats this game (perhaps I'm desensitised to rudeness at this point) so I don't necessarily agree that he's town just for being rude, but I generally feel as though his play has been proactive and his pushes haven't lacked conviction. I need to catch up more but will review this slot again.

The read progression on Darth Punk is very natural. I really like the analysis of Dunn and the bit about trying to trap scum into being more active - that puts to rest one of the slight doubts I had after Dann's case highlighted such posts, and I read the passion behind these comments as being sincere. The analysis of Gob and Roden is spot on as well. I was pretty null on Gob before reading this post, but I'm definitely leaning scum on him now following some of the observations made here. I also resonate with the mixed reaction to Vivax - so far I have disagreed or seen flaws in much of what he has said, and yet something about his style of play makes me naturally want to townread him. I will be sure to review Vivax later as well.

Both Dann and Ninja are clear town reads at this point.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, Vivax, i dont really know.

Can you articulate why you believe I am mafia?