TOWN
Luca
Darth
Dannflor
Hu Tao
Oatsmaster
Vivax
Outoforder
SCUM
Grackaroni
Gob
Naerys
I'm just going to stop pretending like I'm so smart and that there's some deepwolf amongst Luca / Darth / Dann / Hu Tao / Oats / Vivax / OOO, thinking that any one of them has pulled off this amazing feat of tons of participation and analysis. I decided it really is not a coincidence that there is actually this really, REALLY wide gap between the level of effort of a pool of 3 people and the rest of the players in this game. Seriously, Luca / Darth / Dann / Hu Tao / Oats / Vivax / OOO have each done a LOT in this game, said a lot, put a lot of effort into this. If you scored participation / effort on a scale of 0 to 100, with 0 being zero effort and 100 being the absolute most effort, realize that these scores look like 0 (Gob), 1 (Naerys), 20 (Grack), 80+ for everyone else. What a freakin' COINCIDENCE that there happen to be three people on one side of this massive gap! Like wow, just, what an incredible coincidence.
Or that's the scum team and this is gg. I'd like to think it's the latter.
Good night.
How did I know the list was going to be a post related scum list
lmao i have definitely seen that exact thing from ChatGPT before
still reading up but someone mentioned I started out town leadery and have been fading away from that
that's definitely an intentional choice, there are already way too many loud voices in this game I think it's much better if I default to a support role here
In post 2950, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
Look at the post count of everyone right now and tell me it doesn't tell a really fucking interesting story.
Dann - 243
Darth - 416
Hu Tao - 263
Luca - 214
Oats - 346
OOO - 358
Hot girl - 271
Vivax - 279
Gob - 161 (and if we're counting actual substantive posts, it's more like...20)
Grack - 91
Naerys - 51
Tell me I'm not on to something here.
You have to realize that everyone plays different. Some town don't talk. Some scum try hard and post 10000 posts in a game. It's not all about engagement but what they say when they engage.
I'm interested, as long as it's not post count related
It is effort-related. I threw in the numbers as a point of reference, but if you review ISOs, you'll see why they rank so low on effort.
It's also largely a process-of-elimination thing for me. The more I see Darth, Luca, even Oats just post and post and post, the more I think they are town. I have a hard time reading Luca, Darth, OOO, Oats, you (Hu Tao), Dannflor, or Vivax as anything other than town, as they repeatedly search, scour, interrogate, bring up this fact, that logic, that post, etc.
Grack is up there too, but I read his ISO and it feels more like a Netflix movie to me compared to a theatrical release. Like it just feels more like a cheap substitute. Too friendly, quite sterile, nothing that really makes me think he's really interested in solving.
Gob is not even trying to play this game. I'm opting to actually try to see the truth staring me in the face, that he really just is scum and is pulling a fast one on us.
Naerys is even more underwhelming. Notice how fast she vanished when I asked her for more of a case on Gob than the 1 sentence of feels she gave me? She wants a free pass just because she suspects someone I also think is guilty, as if bussing isn't a thing. Making no case whatsoever on the person you're bussing is pretty par for the course.
If I'm wrong about any of those three, I'm leaning hardest on Oats being the third. I uncovered inconsistent use of logic on his part, and he runs away from it. Plus, like, let's not forget that his first real move in this game was to push hard on a confirmed townie.
In post 2945, Oatsmaster wrote:
Okay so if Luca’s frustration is real, then he really thinks I’m town, therefore he’s mafia.
This one doesn't add up. Why couldn't Luca be town and be frustrated with you for suspecting him, with the source of his frustration being that he is being incorrectly classified as scum?
He thinks I’m scum.
…
You've never seen any courtroom drama on TV or in the movies where the prosecutor is frustrated with the guilty defendant who has taken the stand?
Fiction?
Okay. You've never seen a frustrated mom interrogate the child with crumbs on her shirt over where the cookies went? You don't think there's a universe where such a mentality could exist?
This is so funny unironically. Ninja is pretty lock town for me still. I think she's stuck on the post thing but she genuinely believes it.
And yes, 2939 is the ChatGPT response to "how do you detect wolves in werewolf? lol. It was tongue in cheek in its context but also perhaps maybe useful.
In post 3166, gob wrote:
you guys have been going back and forth for so long, there is literally no meaningful way to interqct with luca and oats.
Also ninjas massive posts got to stop asap. Not even joking. theyre wayy too long
Can you explain further why the Dunn wagon has 1 mafia when the other wagon that got y-1 was also a townie
In post 2996, outoforder wrote:
Bad idea to play mafia until 6am.
I'm gonna try to catch up after getting home from work and read whatever i can during the workday.
In post 2264, DarthPunk wrote:
Ugh, its impossible to engage with you when you literally twist and lie about everything.
Here is the progression and I know you are going to have some lies about why this is not really the truth, but for everyone else THIS IS REALLY THE TRUTH.
1.) you hard agree with ninja's post. and say 'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely' with the exception implied being the oats read
In post 773, Luca Blight wrote:
499 is brilliant - it reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely, and offers many insights that I had not yet considered. I've seen scum act far worse than oats this game (perhaps I'm desensitised to rudeness at this point) so I don't necessarily agree that he's town just for being rude, but I generally feel as though his play has been proactive and his pushes haven't lacked conviction. I need to catch up more but will review this slot again.
The read progression on Darth Punk is very natural. I really like the analysis of Dunn and the bit about trying to trap scum into being more active - that puts to rest one of the slight doubts I had after Dann's case highlighted such posts, and I read the passion behind these comments as being sincere. The analysis of Gob and Roden is spot on as well. I was pretty null on Gob before reading this post, but I'm definitely leaning scum on him now following some of the observations made here. I also resonate with the mixed reaction to Vivax - so far I have disagreed or seen flaws in much of what he has said, and yet something about his style of play makes me naturally want to townread him. I will be sure to review Vivax later as well.
Both Dann and Ninja are clear town reads at this point.
2.)Outoforder and I Discuss concerns with the basic failures of logically consistency in that exact post and raise the issue that it 'reflects your thoughts on the game almost entirely' because you have failed to identify and consider the issues in Ninja's post
In post 786, outoforder wrote:
- I can understand your take on Ninja / Roden, however do you think just making a big post makes her town? I mean like... it shouldnt, and i don't see any more reasoning there other than she made a big post.
Well I liked that ninja said she was trying to do something with the activity stuff in that post. I do have a soft spot for big effort posts though.
In post 788, outoforder wrote:
Also do you have any read on Luca Blight and/or Vivax?
As Ninja is your town read, do you think she can have that kind of confidence in her read on Luca, if you can't have a read on Luca? Why?
I liked the last post Luca made about ninja's post, other than that I don't have much thought. Vivax has been making posts that seem weird to me but I wrote it off as playstyle differences.
And sure I don't have to agree with everything someone says to think they are town. I often don't.
Of course you dont, i wouldnt hold that against you.
But like, we've expressed some concerns in Ninja's post (with DP). Like... if Ninja posts like that (makes big posts with a lot of effort) as town, i wouldnt think she would act differently as mafia. For the posters who make wall of texts, it's often small nuances that give them out -- as you can look reasonable by posting 90% truth about other players as long as your vote ends up on someone who isnt mafia.
What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town
I find these to be those kind of small nuances that
could make her mafia
. I am not sure of it, but it's definitely something to look into imo.
In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.
3.) Dunn agrees with the good point because it was.
In post 793, outoforder wrote:
What we were discussing was:
- Ninja placed Dann on town pile for reasons she probably shouldnt (the real reasons came after she did that)
- Ninja placed Luca in "conf town" position but the reasoning in her post didn't include what she actually said makes Luca "conf town"
- Ninja called me out for conf bias, when that "conf bias" actually meant that i shouldnt know i am town
I didn't have a problem with Ninja's read on Dann. They talk about how they missed the post and then talked about their reads after.
Looking back at 499 they do seem to point to a Luca post they liked and explain their read.
And I don't see where they talk about confirmation bias regarding you.
In post 793, outoforder wrote:
In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.
This is a good point.
4.) Much later Luca uses out of context snips of quotes and completely fabricates the historical narrative when ostensibly he is supposed to be 'sorting' implying an open mind.
I'm looking through Dunn's posts now (I'm not finished yet), and I really don't feel great about how he began the game, talking mainly about theory and hardly engaging with anything else. I also didn't like this:
In post 793, outoforder wrote:
In a similar sense, in case Ninja is actually town, Luca's "100% agree to that post" doesn't look good to me, because there is DEFINITELY stuff you should not agree with. It's just very easy thing to say as mafia in case you know it's actually a townie who wrote that post.
This is a good point.
Because it wasn't a good point, in fact outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read, and I would expect Dunn, as careful as he has been in this game, to pick up on that if he was genuinely trying to read me in this situation. Especially when Dunn mentioned/implied he only comments on posts he finds worthy. He also does nothing with this - it leads nowhere, and is never mentioned or referenced again, so he couldn't have believed it was that good a point.
It was a good point though.
It can't be a good point when it's provably wrong.
5. Luca is mafia
Here is DP's case on you Luca.
In this case DP says:
- you hard agree with ninja's post. and say
'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely'
with the exception implied being the oats read
- multiple people discuss the points Ninja made in her post, and point out there are points why the post shouldn't be agreed with, namely me, DP, Dunnstral at least
- we discuss on how it could make you mafia (before DP's case), that you
agree with the post almost entirely
, why that is possibly a scummy thing to do, because any townie should not do that
- you counter that point with
[...]"outoforder misread my post as I explicitly said that i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read"
Now this is not the point we were discussing. We were discussing entirely other parts of that post. I mean like
'reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely'
cannot really be considered ONLY as
"i disagreed with ninja on things such as the reasoning behind her oats read"
. It's just simply an "over-townread" on Ninja regarding the situation without better explanation on this. It is true that you are not explicitly "lying", but you have to understand if you say
'reflects my thoughts on the game
almost entirely
'
, you just cannot brush off the other discrepancies of the post just because you had one different read. Which i can fairly see DP thinks you are doing.
You did the similar thing a few times before also.
You literally said:
In post 270, Luca Blight wrote:
I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.
Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.
A bit after that you even enforce the statement with this:
In post 272, Luca Blight wrote:
It's also the second time a seemingly passive player has burst into life and suddenly gone ultra-aggressive, which as I said earlier I read as more likely to come from scum who are having a hard time blending it otherwise and feel the need to create waves.
Doing so against a partner would be a safer route of achieving this.
Outoforder at least comes across as Townie to some extent, which I'm not seeing from Roden yet.
And after this you are questioning Oats on his read or non-read on gob.
What am i supposed to think??? You give every single piece of clue that you're scumreading both Roden and Oats, just to later on say that you didn't do so and you have never said so.
Again, yeah you are not explicitly lying, but whatever you posted in the thread between there that sure seems like that's the thought you had in your head.
Same thing again with your read on Roden as full. You call him out on being defensive, aggressive and potentially power wolfing (i dont care who said that first, you basically did call him out on that). When i question you on "how does being defensive or aggressive make anyone mafia?", you say you never said those things, it was Roden who brought it up. It's very very twisted how you build your posts just to backtrack on them -- again, by not lying, but you give the impression you DEFINITELY think something, and when it's called out you have a way to back off of it. Like here:
In post 457, outoforder wrote:
I am not saying inconsistencies are purely a mafia trait. Regarding Luca's town reads, i don't understand why he posts 5 town reads while saying he doesn't want to post town reads too early,
and also while thinking both Roden and Oats are mafia. Is that his best use of time, rather than idk.. questioning his scumreads or something?
And also when he does that, why does he want Oats to discuss gob??? Like the best situation interaction-wise a townie can get to, is to make mafia tell why another mafia is mafia.
Same here with Dann's comment on Dunstrall. It's very easy to see what Dann sees. There is a lot of content in the game so far. Why does Dunstrall think discussing lurkers is the most interesting point of discussion at the time?
You seem to massively contradict yourself from one sentence to another, unless I just don't understand what you're saying here.
I also don't have a strong SR on Oats and never have - just his interaction with Roden seemed off to me. I do, however, read Roden as scum independently.
You seem to be making out like I'm throwing all my chips on Oats and Roden being partners, which isn't the case at all. You're overblowing everything I've said.
In post 270, Luca Blight wrote:
I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.
Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.
You literally said this, so i don't know what else to think other than you seem to be thinking they are or could be mafia with each other.
If you don't believe they are mafia together at this point, why say so?
It was my initial reaction to the interaction. I even used the expression 'it wouldn't surprise me', so why are you trying to frame this as me being convinced that they are scum partners?
This is why I don't think your recent analysis is in good faith - I could see where you were coming from with your opening push, but now it feels like you're nitpicking anything to justify maintaining your read on me.
Please don't do this if youre town. I am trying to understand why you are coming to the conclusions and why you feel the need to post what you post.
I already said i can see your PoV from town perspective regarding Oats/Roden. I also think
it's possible
you are coming from town PoV regarding Dann.
However, you cannot just take one part of a case that's wrong and
because of that only
, try to brush the whole thing away. That's something i find scummy tbh. Take one part of the case where you know you are right and discredit everything else because of it. That's not how it works. I'm here to figure out yours and everyone's alignment, and i am pressing things that i feel like are alignment indicative. If something was not, it doesn't mean the person is not mafia, especially when there are other things that concern me on that person.
I haven't brushed anything away - I literally just said i understood where you were going from initially, which is why I made an effort to present my reads in a more transparent way.
In post 475, outoforder wrote:
Now i would still like you to explain how:
- If you don't "normally" solve by giving townreads at the time, then what made you think to post them just because i said you're not solving (after all that's not even what i meant)?
If you don't think that's good town play for you, why did you decide to do it
, if you're not sure of yourself to give those reads at any level of confidence at that time? Just because i am voting for you, should not be a reason. If someone asked me to do things i don't find helpful doing as town, i wouldn't do it. Why would i?
I've answered that already, and once again just above.
In post 475, outoforder wrote:
- If the above is something you did as town, why do you think Roden is mafia partly because he is being "defensive"? Because i would say the above there is way more "scummy defensive" than what Roden did towards Oats. Like if you believe being defensive is a scummy trait, wouldn't you consider yourself defensive towards my accusation (when there should be no reason for you to be defensive in your mind -- unless
you actually think you are not solving the game
, which you shouldn't as town)
The problem is that you're not reading properly.
I never specifically said Roden was scummy for being defensive, although I do think entering the thread purely to defend yourself is quite scummy, which is what happened initially.
What I said was that most of the things Roden accused oat of, including defensiveness, had also been displayed by Roden himself.
Nowhere have I ever said that being defensive automatically equals scum, because that would be ridiculous. I'm not sure why this even needs to be explained, as it should be obvious?
Like in that post you literally contradicted yourself in one sentence.
Basically, at best you are not doing very good job at being clear in what you think and how it reflects into the thread. When you are called out for your literal words you have written in this game, you say they meant something else. That's a big problem to me.
In post 3085, Luca Blight wrote:
The fact he gets so toxic is just another benefit of voting him out - we won't have to deal with that anymore and game instantly becomes more enjoyable.
In post 3055, Luca Blight wrote:
To be fair, Darth is saying the 'last mafia slot' there. He 'thinks' me and Hu Tao are the other two.
I dont understand how DP thinks HT is mafia with you. That doesn't make any sense that she claims investigative role just to backpedal from it and come to a conclusion that you are mafia. It just doesn't make any sense at all to go through all that just to start bussing a teammate.
Ht did that to out a cop imo.
Then she busses her teammate expecting to go down and to get reactions just like this.
I expect big plays with mafia like that where she should be yeeted, to try and set up some wifom on a teammate. To let them carry or to clear suspicion when she goes down .
So basically this analysis is wrong in my opinion.
No way you actually think I did this to out a cop.
In post 3130, Oatsmaster wrote:
Not really sure what grack is doing tbh, it seems like he’s trying to play to stay in the middle and not to piss anyone off as opposed to trying to find mafia
I don't hate this take actually. I'll need to look into grack more. I didn't like the post where they said that gob changed drastically cause I didn't see that
I’m saying darth is frustrated at Luca for out of game reasons, not that darth has out of game reasons which is leading to him behind frustrated………………………:.::
Why I want DP? I already said what I thought about him earlier regardless of the catch up. I think he's been twisting what I've been doing in a sus way. But I just wasn't sure if he was tunneled or not. I don't mind voting him out. I think I explained that in my reads list
In post 3219, Oatsmaster wrote:
I’m saying darth is frustrated at Luca for out of game reasons, not that darth has out of game reasons which is leading to him behind frustrated………………………:.::
So basically his anger and activity the past few days are nai?
In post 3219, Oatsmaster wrote:
I’m saying darth is frustrated at Luca for out of game reasons, not that darth has out of game reasons which is leading to him behind frustrated………………………:.::
He isn't, though. He's frustrated with Luca for things he said in this game, that pertain directly to this game.
Show me a single non-game-related thing that he's frustrated with Luca about.
