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[Gypyx]

2.7

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-2]

Oatsmaster (3) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight

[Exe-3]

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

DarthPunk (1) :

gob

Not Voting (2):

Vivax / Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

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[Naerys]

Regarding Naerys - I'm not reading too much into that supposed town-slip. I actually once played a game before where this happened - a player was so disengaged that they missed the claim of the player who was NK, or something like that, and everyone townread them for it. It actually turned out that they were scum but not pretending to town-slip - they had barely read the posts in the mafia pt either, and were genuinely unaware of the claim.

i do pay attention to the game much more when i am scum
as town i tend to be lax

[Naerys]

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.7

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-2]

Oatsmaster (3) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight

[Exe-3]

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

DarthPunk (1) :

gob

Not Voting (2):

Vivax / Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

curious shifts, i need to think

[Luca Blight]

gun to head i think luca is town

Do you think the same things that myself and ooo have noticed are untrue? not alignment indicative?

the whole luca contradicted himself by saying ninja's posts reflects his thoughts on the game almost entirely thing does nothing for me

the most compelling points to me were about luca seeming passive and being content with the gamestate and overly reasonably

i'm not really seeing the latter anymore

as i said the former does nothing for me

How is Luca not passive? He still basically just comes out to talk some shit with me and dp and leaves. He posted some quick iso “reviews” at the end of d1 but didn’t follow up on any of them

For the amount of posts you have, I'd argue you are the most passive player in the game. All you do is ask pointless questions and never do any analysis based on the answers you receive. You don't actually offer any relevant thoughts on the game - you just flit in and out, making yourself look active and curious to anyone just casually following along.

And how did I not follow up on my iso's? I voted Dunn based on my iso'ing of him for a start, and I townread Grack based on it too.

[Luca Blight]

Mildly confused why dann didn’t seem to react to my response to his “case”

i do not think it productive

Correct, I've learnt that the hard way.

[Luca Blight]

Thinking Oats is mafia is a bit silly in this wagon formation unless he's exactly teamed with DP

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Or maybe Vivax is scum with oats.

None of the above analysis makes sense to me, especially the last part when Dann clearly expressed his suspicion of oats prior to this.

[Luca Blight]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

Yes, Dann is town, and I'm starting to think Darth might be as well based on his recent play.

[Luca Blight]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

I don't get this way of looking at the game at all. You can hold two separate scumreads on the two main wagons and change your mind based on subsequent posts. I don't get your point about oats only being able to be partnered with Darth, either. You seem to be operating from the perspective than Gob is definitely scum, even though you townread him not too long ago?

[Naerys]

I think if Oats is town then atleast one of Dann/Luca is scum

[SuperfluousNinja]

Luca only considers people who call him mafia.

Btw, I think just about every person in this game has called me mafia at one point or another, with the exception of Ninja (and even she has expressed a willingness to vote me), so it's inevitable that I will consider people who have called me mafia.

I was thinking about this too, how I'm pretty sure I am THE only person in this game defending you and everyone else thinks you're scum or has thought it. I can buy one teammate bussing you. But all of your teammates? That is for sure less likely.

[Vivax]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

I don't get this way of looking at the game at all. You can hold two separate scumreads on the two main wagons and change your mind based on subsequent posts. I don't get your point about oats only being able to be partnered with Darth, either. You seem to be operating from the perspective than Gob is definitely scum, even though you townread him not too long ago?

I operated from both perspectives as evidenced by me also trying to take gob's perspective on who he should scumread if he was analyzing both wagons knowing he was town and believing that DP was mafia.

What is so hard to understand ?
If me and Oats and Superfluousninja had at least two mafia we would both be working to hammer the town of the two wagons instead of delaying.

Then you show up and randomly say me and Oats can be mafia together because you haven't put a shred of decent analysis into the wagon formation. That's another reason for me to be unable to townread you.

[Luca Blight]

I think my vote is going to be glued on oats for the rest of this day.

Anyone who happens to townread oats - just look through his iso and see him ask question after question, and make remark after remark without actually doing any proper analysis or doing anything of note at all. All arguments against him he dissects into fragments and asks for explanation after explanation, with the attitude of 'innocent until proven guilty'. It's what I used to do in past scum games - break every argument down into pieces and argue on a purely logical basis, which will never end up with a satisfactory conclusion, because of course oats is never going to admit to being scum, and will continue arguing and redirecting until either you lose interest, or people lazily start to write it off at tvt.

You need to look as much at what oats isn't doing as what he is doing. The vast majority of his post count is made up of filler and questions that lead nowhere. He hold his cards close to his chest and never seems to adapt his reads based on thread developments. Not to mention the blatant pocketing of his tl mates, namely Darth Punk.

[Vivax]

Thinking Oats is mafia is a bit silly in this wagon formation unless he's exactly teamed with DP

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Or maybe Vivax is scum with oats.

None of the above analysis makes sense to me, especially the last part when Dann clearly expressed his suspicion of oats prior to this.

You can't be town and in good faith argue that two mafias didn't at least attempt to hammer the townie one of DP and gob.

Maybe I should just stick with DP/Grack/Luca after all.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I think if Oats is town then atleast one of Dann/Luca is scum

Both outcomes here, where Oats is town and one of Dann / Luca is scum, are really unlikely. Oats has just been antagonizing people and playing defensively all game long, doing little if anything to help us converge our reads and lessen the chaos. I would say both Dann and Luca have done the exact opposite; they've put a lot of effort into solving things, showed flexibility, admitted to faults (this last one is a BIG one to me), and both seem to be working as a team with town as a whole (rather than just one or two people).

BTW my shower thought this morning, why's this game called Mafia? Are mafiosos known for being sneaky and deceptive? Pretty sure if they want someone gone, they just blow his kneecaps out and drop him into a river and be done with it.

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Luca Blight]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

I don't get this way of looking at the game at all. You can hold two separate scumreads on the two main wagons and change your mind based on subsequent posts. I don't get your point about oats only being able to be partnered with Darth, either. You seem to be operating from the perspective than Gob is definitely scum, even though you townread him not too long ago?

I operated from both perspectives as evidenced by me also trying to take gob's perspective on who he should scumread if he was analyzing both wagons knowing he was town and believing that DP was mafia.

What is so hard to understand ?
If me and Oats and Superfluousninja had at least two mafia we would both be working to hammer the town of the two wagons instead of delaying.

Then you show up and randomly say me and Oats can be mafia together because you haven't put a shred of decent analysis into the wagon formation. That's another reason for me to be unable to townread you.

Mafia isn't so black and white that you can say 'when the wagons are like this, scum do this', unless it's melo and scum can literally win the game by quick hammering. Until that point anything is possible, and pre-flip wagon analysis is quite often pointless.

The fact you're so aware of the wagons yourself means that if you were scum, you would play in a way that you could manipulate the wagons to portray yourself or your buddies as being town with such reasoning.

[SuperfluousNinja]

Thinking Oats is mafia is a bit silly in this wagon formation unless he's exactly teamed with DP

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Or maybe Vivax is scum with oats.

None of the above analysis makes sense to me, especially the last part when Dann clearly expressed his suspicion of oats prior to this.

You can't be town and in good faith argue that two mafias didn't at least attempt to hammer the townie one of DP and gob.

Maybe I should just stick with DP/Grack/Luca after all.

Which townie are you referring to here? Roden? Dann and I were the two who had intent to hammer Dunnstral.

[SuperfluousNinja]

i do pay attention to the game much more when i am scum
as town i tend to be lax

Do you understand why lax play is interpreted as scummy?

[Luca Blight]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Yes, I've already observed the pattern of you voting me every time I show suspicion of you.

[Vivax]

Ergo Dannflor is mafia, cause he ignores that, votes Oats, but still should rather vote DP if he was town adhering to his stated beliefs.
The gob vote was a distancing attempt.

Do you think dann could fake the introspection and adjustment to his approach with the TL players this game?

I found that really townie to be honest.

I don't know about that but he should form the two following thoughts:

Are these wagons town on town?
He voted gob previously so clearly he doesn't think that.

If he thought gob was mafia, why vote Oats who was just coming around to vote gob (unless he assumed that was a setup for a bus)?

If Oats isn't bussing he can only be partnered with you, so if he thinks gob is the mafia being wagoned, how can he ever suspect Oats for prepping a vote on him?

I don't get this way of looking at the game at all. You can hold two separate scumreads on the two main wagons and change your mind based on subsequent posts. I don't get your point about oats only being able to be partnered with Darth, either. You seem to be operating from the perspective than Gob is definitely scum, even though you townread him not too long ago?

I operated from both perspectives as evidenced by me also trying to take gob's perspective on who he should scumread if he was analyzing both wagons knowing he was town and believing that DP was mafia.

What is so hard to understand ?
If me and Oats and Superfluousninja had at least two mafia we would both be working to hammer the town of the two wagons instead of delaying.

Then you show up and randomly say me and Oats can be mafia together because you haven't put a shred of decent analysis into the wagon formation. That's another reason for me to be unable to townread you.

Mafia isn't so black and white that you can say 'when the wagons are like this, scum do this', unless it's melo and scum can literally win the game by quick hammering. Until that point anything is possible, and pre-flip wagon analysis is quite often pointless.

The fact you're so aware of the wagons yourself means that if you were scum, you would play in a way that you could manipulate the wagons to portray yourself or your buddies as being town with such reasoning.

Ah the good old perpetual wifom approach.
If i were scum, do you think I'd position myself to vote gob instead of DP when I started the day portraying DP as mafia?

Or were those genuine doubts?

Because I am tempted to move DP back into mafia territory when I read your posts and see how quickly you decided to townread him.

Tell me, what is gob doing that looks like he

doesn't

want to be eliminated?

[Luca Blight]

@Ninja, do you understand Vivax's point regarding the wagons, and do you think he makes a valid point?

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Yes, I've already observed the pattern of you voting me every time I show suspicion of you.

You mean I've been wanting to yeet you for almost the entire duration of the game?
You are suggesting me and Oats could be a team that's the reason I just voted for you again.

[Luca Blight]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Yes, I've already observed the pattern of you voting me every time I show suspicion of you.

You mean I've been wanting to yeet you for almost the entire duration of the game?
You are suggesting me and Oats could be a team that's the reason I just voted for you again.

Well, from my perspective you could be a team. And you've only wanted to yeet me since I first started doubting you - you never scumread me at all for most of D1.

You act all offended by my suggestion of you being scum with oats when you throw out team suggestions willy-nilly, even completely ridiculous ones that feature both me and Darth as scum.

[Vivax]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

VOTE: Luca Blight

Yes, I've already observed the pattern of you voting me every time I show suspicion of you.

You mean I've been wanting to yeet you for almost the entire duration of the game?
You are suggesting me and Oats could be a team that's the reason I just voted for you again.

Well, from my perspective you could be a team. And you've only wanted to yeet me since I first started doubting you - you never scumread me at all for most of D1.

You act all offended by my suggestion of you being scum with oats when you throw out team suggestions willy-nilly, even completely ridiculous ones that feature both me and Darth as scum.

I'm not offended, mostly annoyed. I think you are trying to make the game more complex than it is, and I hate having to repeat myself constantly.

If you have DP and gob at -2 respectively and three people off wagon that don't play like they are associated to eliminate one of the options, you suggesting two of those to be scum together is just baseless tinfoil if you're town, and sloppy if you're mafia.

I don't think you are crazy, so I think you are mafia.

[SuperfluousNinja]

I see you writing a lot but not much substance behind it when you could just look at the wagons and draw conclusions in a more rational way.

Why are you suddenly saying this? I do this massive amount of work to describe the full history of votes on Dunnstral, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you said nothing about it, at all. (I remember because it seemed like nobody gave a shit about that analysis, and that made me sad, because I really did put a lot of work into that, even marking page numbers and such) But now suddenly you're arguing that this is important? At the very least, since my analysis was ignored by everyone, this opinion that looking at wagons matters so much is seemingly not shared by anyone. To me this feels like you're only arguing that it matters when it is convenient for you to make a case on someone.

Instead you're back to claims like Oats pocketing TL buddies and all that jazz which is a cheap way of sowing distrust. Most of your arguments are based on something not making sense to you and there's massive amounts of purely aesthetic floof.

No, no, no. I can't tell you how much I disagree with, like, every sentence here. For one, there's a difference between simply saying he is pocketing TL buddies, which is confined to scummy play by Oats alone, vs. saying that the whole of TL players are some big massive conspiracy of distrust, which WOULD be discord but is not at all what he said.

And his posts aren't aesthetic fluff. You can't argue that if he's citing evidence frequently, which he is. If it were all OPINION, it would be fluff, but it isn't.

I've now come around to thinking Vivax / Oats / Gob are the scum team.